djwilko6 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Stam > Vidic > Rio > CarragherJamie Carragher is so overrated by Scouse bumlickers it's untrue. At least Roy Keane was actually a great player. Carragher's a knob and not even that good. I really hope you get an infraction for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Yeah but he playes for Preston and Carragher plays for Liverpool big difference! Liverpool top 4 team and Preston Promotion hopefuls . Yeah but Carragher was being begged to play for England. Point Proven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 That's the reason Carragher's a knob. What kind of lowlife refuses to represent his country? Because he wasn't played as a centre back regularly? Big deal. He needs to get over the fact that he's not as good as Rio or Terry. Wasn't as good as Ledley King before he became a crock either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 What kind of lowlife refuses to represent his country? Um, Scholes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Maybe hes not as a good as Rio or Terry but hes better then Youl Máwéne;) haha. So what if he rejects to play for England! Paul Scholes retired early because of family life is there anything wrong with that NO! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Scholes retired early like Shearer, to preserve the last years of his career. Carragher bitched and had a hissy fit in his prime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Scholes is not a lowlife, one of the best players ever to grace the Premiership! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Maybe hes not as a good as Rio or Terry but hes better then Youl Máwéne;) haha. So what if he rejects to play for England! Paul Scholes retired early because of family life is there anything wrong with that NO! Never claimed Mawene to be a world beater either . Billy Jones is a better Right back though- Ross Wallace humiliated Carragher at Deepdale! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Scholes is not a lowlife, one of the best players ever to grace the Premiership! Scholes is a very good man, by all accounts, and his scenario is very different to that of Carragher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashOverride Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Ahem Carragher isnt what your describing him as at all. You can hardly call someone a lowlife because they are constantly overlooked by sucessive managers when they are one of the most consistent players in the premiership. He is as good as Rio and Terry and easily better than Ledley King. He has consistenlty peformed for Liverpool for years now and has been bumpered around the back 4 as and when he has been needed. Im sure that most of the top clubs in Europe would love to have a defender of his quality in there squads and his commitment to the cause can never be questioned. If you had taken the time to read his autobiography you would know that his decision to stop playing for England was as much about the deisre to extend his club career as much as it was about the shoved from pillar to post and never been given a chance in an England shirt. The fact that he was overlooked as much as he was after Rio "forgot" his drug test proves that unfortunatley for him his face didnt fit for some unknown reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashOverride Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Scholes is a very good man, by all accounts, and his scenario is very different to that of Carragher. Wouldnt be a Man U fan by any chance would you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I didnt say Carragher is a world beater but he is in the top 5 CBs in the world. So what if he did what was the score in the end? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Wouldnt be a Man U fan by any chance would you? XD Hell no. Jamie Carragher is the 3rd best centre back at LIVERPOOL, right now. He's not as good in the air as Skrtel, or with the ball at his feet as Agger. If he wasn't home grown he would be on the bench. He was 'overlooked' because he's not as good as the Kop's rimming crew makes him out to be. His versitility, and ability made him a great squad member, but his ego wouldn't allow it, so he turned his back on his country. For that he lost any respect his ability gained him. Terry, Ferdinand and King dominated strikers, when Carragher was still in contention. Jamie was a good defender, undeniably- consistently so. He was just never outstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Rio > Stam > Vida > Carragher Many people regard Vidic better than Ferdinand because of his immense strength, heading and tackling game. They really don't watch full matches though. Watching a match carefully you'd be amazed at how many crosses/through balls "accidentaly" end up at Ferdinands head/feet. Vidic and Stam are/were kind of alike in terms of raw power, but given Stams high speed i'd rate him higher. Imo Carragher is now a little beyond his peak, and can't really compare anymore. Anyway to the thread point, i'd say: Schmeichel - 192 (Voted World's best twice - first one ever. Yashin and him are probably the best ever) Beckham - 188 (One of the world's best at his peak, (but didn't reach it in the 90's, so maybe a decrease to some)) Cantona - 186 (Great yes - but not quite up there with the best ever) Giggs - 185 (United's wings were their main force, so i rate Beckham/Giggs > Keane/Scholes) Keane - 184 (One of the best, but not quite as good as Vieira imo) Stam - 183 (Mainly since i'd rate him worse than Giggs and Keane) Scholes - 178 (A little lacking physically, which takes up most CA, so not quite as good as the others) Cole - 177 (Great Striker imo, only Shearer were better in his role) Yorke - 177 (Short peak, but one of the best front duos ever should have somewhat high PA's) G. Neville - 176 (One of the best right backs of his time) Sheringham - 171 (Nationaly chosen because of his playing style rather than his level compared to Cole) Solskjaer - 168 (Lethal, but wouldn't start for a top top side) Johnsen - 166 (Decent defender - benefitted from standing next to Stam) Irwin - 166 (Solid, but little short of world class) Berg - 162 (Pretty solid, however not great) P. Nevillle - 161 (Solid back-up. O'Shea'ish versatile) May - 158 (Always thought he was somewhat of a danger, but did prove crucial at times) Also note that i AM a United fan through some 12-13 years, and if some players seem underrated, i'd understand. I've made my arguments, and i'd like the truly unique players to stand out from the other world-class team players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSparrow Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Well Jesus saves... And McCoist nets the rebound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashOverride Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 XD Hell no.Jamie Carragher is the 3rd best centre back at LIVERPOOL, right now. He's not as good in the air as Skrtel, or with the ball at his feet as Agger. If he wasn't home grown he would be on the bench. He was 'overlooked' because he's not as good as the Kop's rimming crew makes him out to be. His versitility, and ability made him a great squad member, but his ego wouldn't allow it, so he turned his back on his country. For that he lost any respect his ability gained him. Terry, Ferdinand and King dominated strikers, when Carragher was still in contention. Jamie was a good defender, undeniably- consistently so. He was just never outstanding. Sorry What? :confused: Rafa certainly is not a manger who would consistently select a player just because he happens to be Homegrown. Carragher is best centre back at liverpool at has been for a few years. He may lack the pace of some but his positional awerness makes up for this. If Skrtel and Agger were the best centre backs then they would be the centre backs and he would be on the bench or playing out at right or left back. If he "lost respect" as you say I dont understand why Capello would have said he wanted him to reconisder his decision. He hasnt lost respect with many people just a minority who see him as weak for not wanting to play for england. If there was an important game and Terry Ferdinand and a few others were injured/suspended Im sure Jamie would make himself availble for selection for england. I for one respect his decision to retire, It will have been difficult and Im sure there are times he has regretted it. However if it means he can play another full season longer for Liverpool then its a good thing for me and the many other Liverpool fans who enjoy watching him week in week out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopy D Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 How strange, after spending all my time in this thread so far arguing with Hunter Lionheart I am now forced to agree with him. Football, it's a funny old game. EDIT: Although maybe not quite so robustly as he has been arguing the point, I don't however rate Carragher, at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You mean like our injury crisis, where we needed centre backs in the Euro Qualifiers? Like when we had to play Sol Campbell and Joleon Lescott at CB vs Croatia and we lost 3-2? Yeah, he sure came through for us there. I should have been clearer though, the loss of respect only refers to me, I can't speak for anyone else there. And the Liverpool fans would be in uproar at the idea of dropping Carragher. It's not worth the hassle, and the loss of stability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkpunk Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'd rate Vieira slightly higher than Keane but only by a point or two in terms of PA/CA. I'd expect both of them to be around 182-184 mark. I've always seen Keane more or a MC (still with a rating of say 18-19 for DMC), where as the likes of Makelele more a DMC. Mascherano has the potential to be as good but isn't there yet, same with Essien. Schmeichal I'd rate as good as Buffon and definitely in the top 5 GK's ever. Vidic and R Ferdinand complement each other perfectly, what one lacks the other has so I'd have them as a similar PA. Saam would be of a similar quality. Carragher is good, but not as good as as Vidic or R Ferdinand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashOverride Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You mean like our injury crisis, where we needed centre backs in the Euro Qualifiers? Like when we had to play Sol Campbell and Joleon Lescott at CB vs Croatia and we lost 3-2? Yeah, he sure came through for us there.I should have been clearer though, the loss of respect only refers to me, I can't speak for anyone else there. And the Liverpool fans would be in uproar at the idea of dropping Carragher. It's not worth the hassle, and the loss of stability. And was he approached by the wolly with the brolly to play in those games? Lescott is going to end up as first choice england CB at some stage so the practice is good for him. You cant blame Carragher not playing on the whole teams inability to qualify for the euro's others are just as much to blame as him. And if he wasnt performing as well as he could or appeared to have lost confidence in his abilities then there would be uproar if he continued to play based on his repuation when others could be doing a better job than him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUFC-a-holic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 LOL i agree, carragher is so overated by liverpool fans, all he does is shout alot, smash the ball as hard as he can, then go down in the 89th minute with cramp, just to show how hard he's worked. All you liverpool fans who worship him are been laughed at by the rest of us who can see past the ends of our nose's and realise that maybe he's not quite a god! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopy D Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Carragher is best centre back at liverpool at has been for a few years. He may lack the pace of some but his positional awerness makes up for this. I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this, the thing that makes Carragher look so good is his lack of positional awareness. More often than not his being out of position results in an opportunity for the opposition and then super Jaimie gets back to save the day therefore looking like the star defender when it was his error in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUFC-a-holic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Maldini? Booby Moore? surely better than half the defenders been banded around here. And to say that the little cheating 'hand of god' swine himself isn't better than any player who is pulling on a shirt nowadays or in the last 15 years is just wrong We can all get carried away with our own clubs legends, what about the mighty sean gregan? he was class for us a couple of seas...... oh wait, no he wasn't, he was *****. but he did "give everything" for the club. must mean he's ace Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUFC-a-holic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this, the thing that makes Carragher look so good is his lack of positional awareness. More often than not his being out of position results in an opportunity for the opposition and then super Jaimie gets back to save the day therefore looking like the star defender when it was his error in the first place. Spot on. He's cack:thup: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 If he hadn't spat his dummy out, he'd have started that game. I never blamed Carragher for England's failure to qualify, but if he had some class, he;d have been there. His ability might have made the difference in that game. As long as Carragher wasn't playing badly per se, he would be happily tolerated, and doubtless overrated by the fans anyway. He's not a bad player, he's just not as good in the air as Skrtel, or on the ground as Agger. Being quite good at both is obviously enough when you were born in Bootle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Maldini? Booby Moore? surely better than half the defenders been banded around here.And to say that the little cheating 'hand of god' swine himself isn't better than any player who is pulling on a shirt nowadays or in the last 15 years is just wrong We can all get carried away with our own clubs legends, what about the mighty sean gregan? he was class for us a couple of seas...... oh wait, no he wasn't, he was *****. but he did "give everything" for the club. must mean he's ace Pretty good post, in my opinion. During my time watching football, the best player I've had the privilege to watch has been Zinedine Zidane. That guy had this uncanny ability to take four or five players out of the game with a single turn or pass. Currently, my favourite player in world football is Kaka. However, Lionel Messi seems to have it all and could honestly go on to reach the kind of levels Maradona reached. But yeah, it's easy to get carried away with our own club legends. As a Man Utd fan, I feel that the best player for us since I've been watching football has been Paul Scholes. As for Carragher, I have a grudging admiration for his abilities. He's certainly one of the most improved players out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Lionheart Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 We can all get carried away with our own clubs legends, what about the mighty sean gregan? he was class for us a couple of seas...... oh wait, no he wasn't, he was *****. but he did "give everything" for the club. must mean he's ace Oi, don't diss Greegs! He was ace for us XD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reillyg Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 As a Man United I find Carragher utterly hilarious, i mean he can't pass the ball ten yards properly. He is slow and not too intellegent, he makes some good blocks but he isnt in the top bracket, his would be 5th or 6th choice for England. I did like his bit of skill in the box the other day against Everton i think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUFC-a-holic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Oi, don't diss Greegs! He was ace for us XD LOL He is a legend in his own lifetime! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashOverride Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this, the thing that makes Carragher look so good is his lack of positional awareness. More often than not his being out of position results in an opportunity for the opposition and then super Jaimie gets back to save the day therefore looking like the star defender when it was his error in the first place. Well that can happen sometimes but any defender can get caught out of position sometimes but the fact that he can track back and clear up after himself is to his credit. If he makes a mistake in a match he will often confess this which has to be to his credit. The fact he is from Bootle doesnt make him a shoe in for the first team. Lets not forget the fact he was a self confessed everton fan and to make the decision that you are going to ignore the club you have been brought up to support and cross Stanley park and pull on the Red shirt shows something about the mentality of the player. He he has earned the respect of the kop and if he wasnt performing he would be on the bench and Agger and Skrtel would be given the chance to prove they can peform. The have both had injury problems this season and I for one hope the both stay fit and can challenge for first team places. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUFC-a-holic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Pretty good post, in my opinion.During my time watching football, the best player I've had the privilege to watch has been Zinedine Zidane. That guy had this uncanny ability to take four or five players out of the game with a single turn or pass. Currently, my favourite player in world football is Kaka. However, Lionel Messi seems to have it all and could honestly go on to reach the kind of levels Maradona reached. But yeah, it's easy to get carried away with our own club legends. As a Man Utd fan, I feel that the best player for us since I've been watching football has been Paul Scholes. As for Carragher, I have a grudging admiration for his abilities. He's certainly one of the most improved players out there. I agree with kaka at the moment, messi definitly gonna be up there, and Ronaldos form last season was incredible, but none have yet done it on the world stage. Messi will become one of the all time greats, he's lived upto all his hype so far, and seems to be getting better every year. Oh, and Zidane, very good shout, Best player of HIS generation, without doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Have to laugh at the hatred for a player purely because he plays for a rival club. But then I've never understood people who think with their heart instead of their head. I'm not interested in defending Carragher, or any other player and turn it into a slanging match, it's utterly futile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Have to laugh at the hatred for a player purely because he plays for a rival club. But then I've never understood people who think with their heart instead of their head. I'm not interested in defending Carragher, or any other player and turn it into a slanging match, it's utterly futile. I wasn't aware I declared any hatred for Carragher.. :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopy D Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Well that can happen sometimes but any defender can get caught out of position sometimes but the fact that he can track back and clear up after himself is to his credit. If he makes a mistake in a match he will often confess this which has to be to his credit. Absoloutely I often wonder at how he manages to get in some of the blocks/tackles he does but the fact he makes up for his mistakes does not mean it's ok to make them. I'd say Carragher gets himself in the wrong position at least once every match, that's not the occasional mistake that's just poor positional play. All that aside, every single player mentioned in this thread was/is good enough to make a living from playing the game so for anybody, myself included, to be slagging them off is a joke really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I wasn't aware I declared any hatred for Carragher.. :confused: Not aimed at you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron_AO Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 to the person who thinks jamie carragher is liverpool's 3rd best cb, stick to football manager because you're not understanding real life football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Absoloutely I often wonder at how he manages to get in some of the blocks/tackles he does but the fact he makes up for his mistakes does not mean it's ok to make them. I'd say Carragher gets himself in the wrong position at least once every match, that's not the occasional mistake that's just poor positional play. Whoever does the FM researching for Liverpool clearly disagrees with you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 In my opinion people are being a bit harsh on Carragher in this thread. He is not fantastic but he is still pretty good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blab Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Van der Sar ? I'm not going to even justify that with an answer. Why not? He does hold the record for most consecutive clean sheets in the premiership, won 130 caps for the Netherlands and won the Champions League twice. Impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Van der Sar is one of the finest goalkeepers of his generation and is certainly worthy of a mention when discussing great 'keepers. I'm not saying he's the best, but he's up there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Lets put it this way Carragher is good! Lescott is going to be one of the best CBs in England and i agree with whoever said about stick to football manager if you think that Jamie Carragher is the 3rd best Centre Back at Liverpool, Skrtel is just an oath! As for Van Der Sar if you can name a keeper at his age that has achieved what he has achieved then fair enough but it might be very hard! I forgot to mention about Maradonna as well yes maybe he was good but Messi is going to far surpass him in every single way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm not sure it's possible to "far surpass" Diego Maradona! I believe that Messi has it in him to be as good. He isn't there yet, though, and there's no guarantee he will ever be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reillyg Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I worry for Messi, he is great to watch but as we saw last season injuries can get too him. I fear one cruciate tear could spell the end of his greatness. I hope not but I can see it happening, especially with him having to use growth hormones which will take their toll on the strength of his bones, muscles and ligiments. Is he the best player in the world, well he looks it but then the Spanish league looks poor defencively to me. Could he perform against Stoke on a cold Tuesday night? I would say Ronaldo is the more complete player, but Messi has a bit more magic about him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm a Man Utd fan, but I put Ronaldo third. I have no problem with that because it's still pretty special. I just don't see the level of talent in him that I see in Messi and Kaka. For me, Kaka is the best player in the world right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Kaka is not the best player in the world right now. Yes he is genius but hes playing in an ageing AC Milan team were it is not har to stand out. Serie A isn't really that competitive imo either its just defend defend defend! Messi is lighting the La Liga up. He is magic and maybe your right reilly but wasn't Gerrard on growth hormones at one point? Maybe Messi cannot perform at stoke on a tuesday but there is only one way to find out FERGIE BUY MESSI . (I wish) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 You're entitled to your opinion, of course. And your argument is quite persuasive, I admit. However, I don't think that the state of Milan's team or the Italian league should diminish how good Kaka is. Italian football is so defensive, and yet Kaka unlocks those defences week in, week out. I love Messi and I do believe he is going to be the best in the world, but at the moment he's very raw. I don't think he's quite at Kaka's level of genius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Fair play to you! Yes he does unlock defences week in week out but if he was that good don't you think other clubs would of gone in for him? Messi is genius. Barca are going to smash everything to pieces next few seasons with him Bojan and Busquets. Back to topic, we will just have to wait and see i think that Kaka is entering his prime and Messi's not nowhere near it yet. Ronaldo as he showed last year is up there but this seasons off the boil, not good to see as a United fan but hopefully he will stay and he will be the Ballon D'or winner next season! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullard4england Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Kaka top for me too. His game is about as complete as I've seen since Zidane. Messi and Ronaldo have the tricks and I have little doubt Messi could, one day, be almost as good as Maradona was but Kaka's got the footballing intelligence that the others simply don't. IMO of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Fair play to you! Yes he does unlock defences week in week out but if he was that good don't you think other clubs would of gone in for him? Pretty sure the richest club in the world went in for him! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goals53 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thats fair enough and as you said Zidane was top class and IMO the best player ever to grace the green grass of the pitch. He has got football intelligence but he is 26? or 27? one or the other and i think that Messi at that age will be phenomenal and every club will trying to buy him, Kaka £100 mill? Messi will be worth more. But i dont think that any player is worth £100 mill. Kaka tore united apart in Milan a couple of years ago but and it was embarrassing and Messi does it week in week out, Ronaldos on off like a switch. Theres no doubt about it but they are the three best in the world but maybe Xavi? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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