Hammer1000 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Simple - they're fanboys resorting to type when anyone points out the "clear as the nose on the face" flaws that infest this latest iteration - quite humourously depressing to see such blind faith in something so incorrectly wrong.You can add the "goalkeeper hoof over the top of the defence that a striker runs onto 15 times a game even though you've set the defensive line slider to it's deepest setting" thing to the list Dont worry mate, thats already on my list! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirdez24 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 The 'goalkeeper hoof' was a result of the same defender movement that now results in a million one-on-ones, just the pass was coming from the keeper and not the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benji!!!!! Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 This will be my last FM for the forseeable future. I've been addicted to the last 5, but this one doesnt make me play it at everyopportunity like previous versions. I have yet to get to the first transfer window as I'm just getting bored with it. This is all because of the number of flaws and repetitiveness of some of the features, good bye FM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer1000 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Yeh, because no one can have an opinion that differs from yours can they.People have to start understanding that people percieve and accept things in different ways, and just because you are not happy with something does not mean that other people can't be either. Saying the match engine has problems is arbitrary. A problem for one person does not necessarily mean it is a problem for someone else. This is what SI have to deal with, as do anyone who ever designs or creates a product or service for a number of many different people. I like the match engine and am happy with it. Maybe its because I dont expect as much from it as others do? 108 - What we are trying to get across here is not that YOU should not accept the game as it is and still enjoy it, its about "unquestionable" things that are wrong with the game and how they are spoiling the enjoyment for those that are aware of them. Nobody thinks your stupid because you cannot see them, or that you can still enjoy the game in spite of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopsy101 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 hammer you are looking at the "flaws" in a negative way. who knows why fuller beat richards but obviously pace is involved in the play and pace has been well worked this year so there will have been something that the graphics cannot get across. eg skinning him, richards slipping but not falling etc ive not had a problem as i can understand the vastness of the engine and can relate it to things that happen IRL. now stop focussing all you attention on making normal situation into "flaws" also bales positioning is 13 which isn't fantastic and he might have had an odd mistake. the example you have given at the start is absolute crap as there as so many posibilities and you need to open your eyes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer1000 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 hammer you are looking at the "flaws" in a negative way. who knows why fuller beat richards but obviously pace is involved in the play and pace has been well worked this year so there will have been something that the graphics cannot get across. eg skinning him, richards slipping but not falling etcive not had a problem as i can understand the vastness of the engine and can relate it to things that happen IRL. now stop focussing all you attention on making normal situation into "flaws" also bales positioning is 13 which isn't fantastic and he might have had an odd mistake. the example you have given at the start is absolute crap as there as so many posibilities and you need to open your eyes Anagram - point you missing the are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo_LFC Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Guys, personally I just don't think your tactics are up to scratch...If there's one thing I've noticed about this FM is you simply cannot play the same tactic during the full 90mins, which to me makes this the best FM yet! Your defenders marking is shocking in those screenshots, this simply looks like bad defensive tactics, go back to the drawing board. I'd recommend maybe try reading Tactical Theorems and Frameworks ’09 excellent 50 page guide on the fm britans site. Post a screenshot of your defensive mentalities for a start.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvincito Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm gonna keep it short. I agree with Hammer1000, since Im in the same position. Am doing great with my side, having advanced to serie A in Italy, from c2, in merely 3 years. But despite the success, Im not enjoying it very much. So many things feel randomized leading to me never feeling comfortable when playing at home against weaker opposition, because at any given point they score due to bizzarre occurrences. Or every now and then, they start playing like Barcelona and I cant do **** about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester City Researcher Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'll reprise a post made elsewhere - see if you have seen any of these in your matches: I think I can categorise the ME shooting into one of five categories:1. Speedy attacker in real life gets 20 yards clear through on goal - only to be caught by 14 stone lumbering defender before he can decide to engage brain and shoot 2. Attacker clean through manages to gently hit any shot right into the goalkeeper 3. Attacker with acres of time and space decides instead of placing a shot low into the corner of the net instead he'll scoop it 8 foot over the bar 4. Attacker with ball at feet in middle of penalty area with only the keeper to beat just stands there and lets a defender track back and easily just take the ball off his feet and clear 5. Attacker has shot which keeper saves (see number 2) - ball rebounds out into space. Other attackers just stand there scratching their arses whilst a defender under no pressure picks the loose ball up, hoofs it 50 yards over a hilariously shallow back line to a team mate who has a 45 yard clear run on goal. Repeat any combination of these dozens of times over course of a match - ending in a 0-0 draw you've utterly dominated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopsy101 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Guys, personally I just don't think your tactics are up to scratch...If there's one thing I've noticed about this FM is you simply cannot play the same tactic during the full 90mins, which to me makes this the best FM yet! Your defenders marking is shocking in those screenshots, this simply looks like bad defensive tactics, go back to the drawing board. I'd recommend maybe try reading Tactical Theorems and Frameworks ’09 excellent 50 page guide on the fm britans site. Post a screenshot of your defensive mentalities for a start.... very good point as i find myself changing the tactic throughout the match. and thats a very high line hammer is playing whereas i never concede goals like that as i play pretty deep, probably a reason i always go on runs of 300-400minutes without conceding. hammer what do you mean anagram? you are right there may be a point i am missing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greasy Chip Butty Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I have yet to see the Man City balloon gate scandal from the FA cup the other season replicated though If you check Luton Shelton's stats and attributes, you'll see that his 'Balloon Awareness' stat is 20! He never misses when there's balloons around! What a laugh that was! I couldn't cheer the goal for laughing at it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo_LFC Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Not only is it a high line...its the 82nd min, they will be going direct for a start while pushing for the 4th goal..It looks to me like bale's closing down is far to high. If you look at the screenshot, as soon as the opposing player has the ball, Bale has left his marker to close the player receiving the ball down. It's simply logical the problem with that whole series of screenshots is simply tactical. Bale as left his marker goal side probably on the front foot awaiting that killer through ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwilko6 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Simple - they're fanboys resorting to type when anyone points out the "clear as the nose on the face" flaws that infest this latest iteration - quite humourously depressing to see such blind faith in something so incorrectly wrong.You can add the "goalkeeper hoof over the top of the defence that a striker runs onto 15 times a game even though you've set the defensive line slider to it's deepest setting" thing to the list No need to resort to abuse to get a point across. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer1000 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Kopsy and Simmo - Both missing the point! maybe read a bit more of the thread fellas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Yeah, I blame everyone's tactics. The match engine is tremendous at making you aware of what needs changing. Unbelievable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo_LFC Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Hammer, you posted an example of the types of problems your experiencing. Those screenshots show me that your defensive tactics are at fault. I therefore am assuming your problems are tactical. It's really quite a logical assumption to make.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredric Drum Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Funny stuff happens on the pitch, but (number of) goals scored is roughly like it should be and the results are reasonably realistic. So the problem is HOW goals are scored, or rather how the goals are displayed visually. Let's say that a through ball was played to a striker. The ME calculations had decided that the striker was going to beat the defenders, although he didn't really have a head start on the defenders. The 2D/3D engine decides to show this as the defenders suddenly going at half speed and sideways instead of rushing to intercept. It looks mighty stupid, but the goal was scored and contributed to a reasonable result. Now, let's imagine that the defenders did the right thing, they rushed for the ball and cleared it, just like it looked like they had every chance to do in 2D/3D. The goal was not scored. In fact, far, far fewer goals were scored throughout the season. So it's obvious that the goal had to come, it's just a matter of making it look less stupid. You guys feel unfairly treated, but the thing is that you wouldn't get away with conceding any fewer goals even if they fixed these situations. Also remember that the AI defenders would stop your strikers the same way. So making defenders less stupid would create lots of headaches in related areas of the game. Incredible defender errors are a way to get around problems with a match engine with flaws, because the goals must be scored. While they try to figure out how to fix this, you just have to try to ignore defenders' moments of insanity - or not play. It's just the way the game works at the moment. But yes, it does diminish the feel of the game by doing things that you just don't see in real football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sav112 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Read a good bit there and I left the game as the match engine in my view just did not work the way it used too. I used to work more on the building my team on player performances and building relying on players to perform to a expectable level and consistent… players are poor and not consistent but that was the fun finding out, in this I just think players range too massively from top to bottom…. Is the match engine dare I say it over worked to the point its lost its charm and connection to the game of football. first CM/FM game I've never bought... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer1000 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Hammer, you posted an example of the types of problems your experiencing. Those screenshots show me that your defensive tactics are at fault. I therefore am assuming your problems are tactical. It's really quite a logical assumption to make.... Well your wrong, i was/am still unbeaten and had the 2nd least goals conceded. My d-line is NOT pushed up and Bale is set to close down own half. My d line being high was not the cause for the goal, imagine the screenshot but with my defenders back 20 yards, Fuller would still be through, but would just have less travelling to do. Read through some more of the thread and you will/might? begin to understand what we are talking about, your making assumptions as you said, but your assumptions are not based on any footballing knowledge you may have, instead you are making excuses for the game, or if not that, to make yourself feel better about the games problems. Like i said read more of the thread and other issues as/more blatant as the one you replied too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer1000 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Funny stuff happens on the pitch, but (number of) goals scored is roughly like it should be and the results are reasonably realistic. So the problem is HOW goals are scored, or rather how the goals are displayed visually.Let's say that a through ball was played to a striker. The ME calculations had decided that the striker was going to beat the defenders, although he didn't really have a head start on the defenders. The 2D/3D engine decides to show this as the defenders suddenly going at half speed and sideways instead of rushing to intercept. It looks mighty stupid, but the goal was scored and contributed to a reasonable result. Now, let's imagine that the defenders did the right thing, they rushed for the ball and cleared it, just like it looked like they had every chance to do in 2D/3D. The goal was not scored. In fact, far, far fewer goals were scored throughout the season. So it's obvious that the goal had to come, it's just a matter of making it look less stupid. You guys feel unfairly treated, but the thing is that you wouldn't get away with conceding any fewer goals even if they fixed these situations. Also remember that the AI defenders would stop your strikers the same way. So making defenders less stupid would create lots of headaches in related areas of the game. Incredible defender errors are a way to get around problems with a match engine with flaws, because the goals must be scored. While they try to figure out how to fix this, you just have to try to ignore defenders' moments of insanity - or not play. It's just the way the game works at the moment. But yes, it does diminish the feel of the game by doing things that you just don't see in real football. I brushed on this earlier, how can SI bring out a game that now obviously has to be played more in-depth, when the actual depth is missing from the most important part of the game? If 8 out of every 10 goals i concede is a simple missed player interception(example) how then am i supposed to work out tactically where i am going wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredric Drum Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 First of all, it doesn't happen THAT often. Secondly... it's hard to work out where you go wrong tactically, yes. Personally, I don't really pinpoint where I'm going wrong tactically, I just try something else and see if it works Maybe that's down to me not being a football expert, though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smac Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 If 8 out of every 10 goals i concede is a simple missed player interception(example) how then am i supposed to work out tactically where i am going wrong? There's the rub really. Even if the ME is producing realistic match stats and scorelines if the display of the match misrepresents the way such matches are won and lost this makes tactics quite difficult to manage. If, on the other hand, the ME is producing unrealistic match stats and scorelines, then it hardly matters how well or poorly they are simulated and displayed as the basic premises are wrong. This would also potentially make tactics difficult to manage or too easy to exploit. So I'm hoping for the former and that the simulation and display are improved. But we're already past patch 2, so maybe this won't get rectified till next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boydy09 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 haha the defending on my game is fine stop making out that just coz somethings a problem to u and on ur game that its a problem for everyone else when its not by the way micah richards and gareth bale are not world class players in real life or in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowSimao Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Cmon, to the people actually defending SI on this one, it's just not realistic. Yes, it does happen occasionally in real life, but not 5+ times every game. My defenders do the same thing all the time, not only on throw-ins but also just normal play. Luckily my goalkeepers have good reflexes and can stop a lotof these attacks. But it's still annoying watching it happen 5 times every match. You people ever assume that maybe some of us want things fixed for a better game, and not just to win or lose? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron_AO Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 your fixes will make the game too static and statistically based as opposed to managing ur d-line/team talks. maybe micah wasn't motivated enough to play? so many factors FM takes into account. if we follow micahs jump/pace is better than 95% of strikers, then he'd be UNSTOPPABLE on the game. is he unstoppable irl? LOL. far from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smac Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 1. Its not tactics. There isn't a tactic that tells defenders to slow down and/or freeze when an attacker is otherwise through on goal. Not possible to even ask your defenders to do that. 2. If it is a problem with the game's simulation of defending then its a problem in your game whether or not you notice it. 3. I don't think anyone is asking for an easier game here, just a better simulation. Hammer is, if anything, over-performing in the league. As frederic drum and I have been saying, it appears to be a problem in the simulation of defending/1-on-1s/tackling/tracking-back etc.., not necessarily in the overall scoreline or percentages (stats). If someone wants to argue this they need to make an assertion like this: The simulation of defending is accurate, realistic, and directly defined by player stats and tactics. And show how this is likely the case in Hammer's example. The best arguments so far are "high D-Line" and "Too much closing down", but we've learned that neither is the case in the tactical set-up. Nor does this explain the pace problem (tracking back, recovery, etc..) Otherwise you are not arguing the point being made by the OP but only sniping wildly at the wrong target (like my strikers, darnit!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriseaton20 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 It seems like a lot of people are missing the point that the OP was trying to make. While tactics play a big part in this game there does seem a problem with players stats not being properly represented in the ME. Everybody knows that Micah Richards positioning isn't the best in the world but he more than makes up for it with his pace and acceleration. When you look at diagram 4 you can see that Richards is not that far away from Fuller. If we are going by stats then Fuller with Acc 15 Pace 14 should get caught by Richards who has Acc 19 Pace 17 especially as Fuller is running with the ball!! Now when you look at picture 5 you can see about the same distance from each player so for the posters saying he could have slipped this proves you are wrong. Even if Richards did slip couldn't this be mentioned in the commentary? This would make us aware of what happened. Why do people who blindly follow the game still try and put every glaring fault with the game down to tactics. Of course the OP could have asked Richards to run slower when chasing a player 45 yards from his goal!?!?!?! The OP isn't debating Bale's lack of defensive awareness/positioning or Richards lack of positioning as both have been known to go walk a bouts IRL. But can anyone find me a video of Richards not being able to catch a player 45-50 yards from goal while the striker is running with the ball? I think the problem SI have is that people demand realism. What people forget is this is a game which no matter how hard SI try will never replicate real life 100%. What happened in the screen shots is nothing more than a mistake in the game. Does this make it unplayable? Only if you expect the game to mirror real life, which if you do, you will be disappointed. I happen to love the game and have done since I first bought Championship Manager 97-98. It's still the most realistic football manager sim around, however it isn't real life!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnfieldRoad10 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 No disrespect to ANYONE, but if you believe the ME portrays a reasonable game of football then you have absolutely no idea about how the game is played and subsequently, should not be arguing against things you obviously dont understand.Whether you watch the game in 2D or 3D there is no ignoring basic player skills that are missing from the game, as well as natural player physics, watching World Class players behaving worse than Sunday league footballers is not my idea of a clever, fun or believeable ME. I'd rather lose games, but at least be watching a believable ME and those of you who will no doubt suggest i play an easier game, should be doing so yourselves, as you obviously have no idea about the fundamentals attached to professional footballers that are completely lacking in this game. Case in point - How many times in real life do teams like Stoke play 20-30 consecutive passing one touch football? the same can be said about ANY side go who looking for a late equaliser in this game, suddenly despite not being able to string two passes together for 85 minutes they change formation and also into World Class players who can suddenly play perfect football, whereas IRL when teams are trying to claw back late goals they actually go long and direct. Why attempt to make an argument of something you clearly do not understand? Such ignorance. Don't post on an internet forum if your going to act like an idiot when somebody challenges, or even comes up with a reasoned argument against what you are saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer1000 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Such ignorance.Don't post on an internet forum if your going to act like an idiot when somebody challenges, or even comes up with a reasoned argument against what you are saying. Is it just complete coincidence that the three posters on this thread that just cannot grasp the concept of the argument are all Liverpool fans??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smac Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think the problem SI have is that people demand realism. What people forget is this is a game which no matter how hard SI try will never replicate real life 100%. What happened in the screen shots is nothing more than a mistake in the game. Does this make it unplayable? Only if you expect the game to mirror real life, which if you do, you will be disappointed. I happen to love the game and have done since I first bought Championship Manager 97-98. It's still the most realistic football manager sim around, however it isn't real life!! I'd go a step further (this is just opinion and a bit off topic, nonetheless...... ) I'd suggest that if the game isn't going to be realistic in a certain area, it should 'make up for it' by being fun. Fun in this case by being predictable and rewarding. If pace doesn't matter for defenders anymore, then both the realism and the fun is in a dire state. A lot of the game is about the attributes: Which are important, how they develop, how to find players with the attributes you need, etc.. So if the attributes start to seem irrelevant ....... hence why this is a more important topic overall than just wondering about getting more realism out of the simulation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indi75 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Pure poppycock What the baker said tbh. There's issues sure, but some of these issues are created by people who want there to be something wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriseaton20 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 It's a tough one Smac. SI have to try and get the right balance from a lot of different outcomes. There is no reason why Richards shouldn't catch Fuller from the diagrams above other than he slips over. Diagram 5 clearly shows that he couldn't have slipped over as he is the same distance from the player as he was in Diagram 4 (if he did slip over couldn't SI put in the match commentary that "Richards slips" to make the viewer aware of what was going on). I don't see any other reason as to why Richards shouldn't catch Fuller. Tactics shouldn't come in to it. Show me a tactic where you can ask the player to run slower or faster? Also teamtalks shouldn't come into it. Even if the player was unhappy at a club I can't see that coming in to it unless Richards wasn't trying to run fast and again if this was the case couldn't we have something in the commentary/assistant manager making us aware that Richards wasn't trying...etc? The only conclusion is a fault with the ME. It doesn't overly bother me as it's the best manager sim out there by far and I expect a few glitches with such an in depth game. Look at the AI in pro-evo. Some of the players look like the wouldn't be out of place in an under-11's game but that doesn't stop me from playing or enjoying it. AI is exactly that, AI! And it will never represent real life 100%! As for Liverpool fans not grasping what your going on about Hammer1000. I'm a Liverpool fan and I understand your argument fully!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Hi,Reading your post made me think the following... pic 2, 37 is moving towards the sideline, thus closing down the possible overlap... leaving the other central defender to cope with the lone striker.... makes sense to me As for the speed issue... its late in the game.. was the striker a sub? what is the defenders fitness like, maybe he was tired? If that makes sense to you..god help us, SI can release anything and people will accept it. Even at u-10 level we were told to never leave a SC and DC one on one. Its quite sad that people cannot grasp what the OP is saying here - the defender's behavior is idiotic and unrealistic - why would a cd at first run away from a striker who has a clean run on goal? Why would a defender marking from a throw in run away from someone who can receive the ball? Not get lost by movement, but actually RUN AWAY from someone who is about to receive the ball? He makes a good point about the physical stats not being represented properly in FM - strikers are ALWAYS better than defenders, ai or human managed, regardless of stats when it comes to certain scenarios in the match engine. No one has come up with a good argument to counter these - most completely missing the points and blindly defending the ME for some astounding reason. If you guys don't want it to be more realistic, fine, but just don't waste time coming up with utter tripe to defend it and try to make out that it is already realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Such ignorance.Don't post on an internet forum if your going to act like an idiot when somebody challenges, or even comes up with a reasoned argument against what you are saying. Good post this, well done Missed every point made in the thread so far. Keep up the good work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopsy101 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Is it just complete coincidence that the three posters on this thread that just cannot grasp the concept of the argument are all Liverpool fans??? jesus man its a coincidence. i dont have time to read throughout the whole thing but i read the early posts and i know you're first example of the game engine favoring the computer is utter balls. what is it that we cannot grasp then big guy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripthemichael Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Going to agree with Hammer 100% because surely the idea of the 3D simulation was to give you a more realistic idea of what was going on on the pitch. When it was 2D it was known (at least by me) that you had to use your imagination. The things being represented are mostly just plain stupid representations and because you see these things that don't make sense you find it hard to rectify them in the tactics unless you accidently stumble on something, because the tactics don't make sense any more in relation to the 3D image. yes I know i can turn off 3D, but that's the reason I bought this game otherwise I'd have carried on playing FM07. I am not a football fanatic/coach or a computer geek/wiz. Up till now I have never had a need to visit these forums because I was satisfied with how each instalment of FM/CM played for me. I've said this in other post's I've written that I don't mind it's harder but I play this game for fun and find for the first time that I am having to watch the whole match instead of highlights to try to keep my tactics up to date and constantly fiddling during the match. So in brief for me the tactics side has been overcomplicated and non sensical and the 3D representation is just unreal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawel_lfc Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think we all know the game is still in beta. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 FM has been in beta longer than googlemail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sav112 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I Loved the older versions CM03 being great for example....you understood your players, you knew why you bought them or even scouted then…..you had your few star players and worked with the rest….you delighted in bringing in the big signing just to see what he would do in your team…..But these last few FM versions I’ve felt detached with players never settled being great then poor and your top class side playing like the proverbial pub team against that team that’s not won in eighteen matches….it was getting so bad I Was beginning to follow the programming it was that predictable, it might not be noticeable but you notice when in a clan game and seriously scary hours playing…I dont like a game that tells me "By the way to make it hard I'll kill 5 star players" "You've used the same 442 so long you'll lose this game" "That media comment has lost you this game” “Don’t be surprised if this Euro game goes to 4-5 agg just to spice the game up” “That eighteen positioned side will beat you, well it keeps it tight at the top and all the players are in there Pub team colours” “ You’re losing this game for no other reason as it happens in real life” “Throw a dice to see what players will perform today” The main thing that killed it was the over elaborate CL group and knockout rounds and even a few finals…that were just fantastically elaborate that it was a joke….6-5 on agg over and over or as close to it. I would not say FM08 was addictive at all, but still enjoyable in the Clan game I played even with its faults. But you can only buy or play what I consider now a poor mans original CM for so long, that promises the earth but does not deliver. I don’t even Know what the newer CM game are like as I ported over to FM with the Clan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnoldzhu Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Couldn't agree more. I'm no longer addicted in this game. Yes, it is by far the best football management sim game on the market. Yes, it sells very well every year. Yes, SI put lots of efforts in the game to make it sell good to earn money to pay salaries. But, we pay to play the game and we deserve better match day experience in the game. As I have said years ago, the ME is the very most important key part of a game. Simply put, currently the match engine just doesn't look like with sufficient realism. Tactics sliders makes it too sophistcated and confusing. It is always that the knowledge and experience of football should come first for a player on the pitch then the tactics. Anyway, we don't owe SI anything and we don't need to thank SI anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka.arrogantio Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm expecting Mark Hughes to turn up with some screenshots of the absurdly bad defending that the real life Man City managed today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacman1389 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I played 07 religiously.....I played 08 like it was my job.....I play 09 until it frustrates me to the point where I almost throw my laptop. I agree with the OP, as my biggest problem with the match engine is that there isn't anywhere near as much logical feedback. Like, in 08, if a LB backpass across the box ended in a goal, I knew what to change. But in 09, with all of the inexplicable mistakes in the defense (and strikers), it's impossible for me to enjoy the experience of tweaking my tactics. It becomes less of a exercise in fun, and more of an exercise in futility, as even if you do find a great tactic and win a bunch in a row, you will still get crushed after a while because you have to constantly change stuff. It doesn't feel realistic. I would like to get my money back, as I just can't play it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopitelewis Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 so you've still not managed to find that off button then? well, the fact your actually winning when others aren't and you still moan does make you sound like a prat. this is not fifa 09 where you can do 50 passes in a row, moonwalk with the ball on your head then pass it into an empty net (unless you buy kerlon on fm 09. speaking of which, where is he on fm09 i can't find him. ). this actually takes into account what can happen in a real game of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacman1389 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 so you've still not managed to find that off button then? well, the fact your actually winning when others aren't and you still moan does make you sound like a prat. this is not fifa 09 where you can do 50 passes in a row, moonwalk with the ball on your head then pass it into an empty net (unless you buy kerlon on fm 09. speaking of which, where is he on fm09 i can't find him. ). this actually takes into account what can happen in a real game of football. I think the only way you could've missed the point more is if you ended it with "it's your tactics" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopitelewis Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 nope i returned back to the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sav112 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 "fact your actually winning when others aren't and you still moan" – says a lot actually but then that might be a stretch for some on here….. it’s the experience and not the winning! Get it! this guy is winning but thats not the point as he is not getting the CM experience he should.Tell you what the old school would wipe the floor with the new guys used to not football but sliders, in the old days you had to have a clue about building teams…. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 so you've still not managed to find that off button then? well, the fact your actually winning when others aren't and you still moan does make you sound like a prat. this is not fifa 09 where you can do 50 passes in a row, moonwalk with the ball on your head then pass it into an empty net (unless you buy kerlon on fm 09. speaking of which, where is he on fm09 i can't find him. ). this actually takes into account what can happen in a real game of football. This, ladies and gents, is how to miss the point. Completely. Take a bow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAssassin1982UK Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It's amazing how many people are missing the point of this thread completely. I do enjoy the game but definitly agree that the match engine / 3D portrayal of the match engine, need to be improved for FM10 and hopefully SI are working on this. Anyways thought I'd list a few of the errors within the match day experience that I've noticed while playing for a few hours on my Luton save today:- 1. my ex premiership striker ( viduka ) and Arsenal youngster ( Murphy ) cant for the life of them score a one on one with a keeper, they miss 4 times as many as they score. My team has no problem creating these one on ones but they just cant score them against league 2 keepers, either blasting them over or hitting them straight at the keeper. have tried other strikers with the same trouble, decent finishing, composure, etc stats dont seem to matter in my team. 2. Conceded a couple of goals where my goalies come running out the area to clear the ball, stopped when he's got to the ball, waited for 5 secs for the striker to tackle him and tap the ball in. Never seen this IRL. 3. my defenders stop and watch in awe as the ball is hoofed over there heads for the striker to run on to. ( sure my tactics are crap, but my defenders behave like morons who would struggle for a pub side. ) IRL defenders get caught out for sure, but I dont see many just stop and watch the ball going over there head. 4. League 2 midfielders score more 20 yrd plus shots than ronaldinho and kaka on speed. Can quite believe this is down to me needing to tweak my tactics, but then again bad tactics don't mean the opposition should suddenly be world beaters. 5. Same as above really, but my attacking midfielders are certainly more clinical from 25 yrds than my strikers are from 10. 6. my defenders kicking the ball out for a corner, when theres no attacker near them. ( i'm undecided whether its a poor back pass to the keeper or not, but has happened a few times. ) 7. the general slowness of players to react to a loose ball, compared to the opposition. I do wonder sometimes if my players have been drugged. 8. would be nice to have actual stadiums and grounds, just for cosmetic purposes, would look much better than empty stands anf a few advertisments. Think thats enough really, turning in to a rant and I do actually enjoy the game, would just like to see some pretty obvious flaws corrected in order to improve fm10. Hopefully threads like this will be read and taken in to account for FM10, because with the right improvements fm10 could be fantastic ( or even more fantastic than it already is ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikandros33 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If you like the game but don't agree with the 3D representation, why you aren't watching games with only commentary? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly1616 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 great post- shows you that when the game wants to **** you, it does. stats and tactics are out the window there. maybe it's the lack of graphical possibilities for goals... if you follow me the issue is, for anyone that missed it, how does a place with 14/15 acceleration/pace, outpace a player of 17/19 when they start at the same level on the HALF WAY LINE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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