FM24 | A Sporting Heritage | The Guajes of Gijón

[Shrewnaldo]

A Sporting Heritage

The Guajes of Gijón

For the last two or three FMs, my saves have almost completely ignored youth development - to the point where I jettisoned all staff and players outside the first team squad. Partly this was to help with the finances, partly due to the game style I wished to follow. This save will be very different.

Sporting de Gijón's Escuela de Fútbol de Mareo is one of the most famous academies in Spanish football. Having produced the likes of Abelardo, Luis Enrique and David Villa in (relatively) recent times, it has been described as second only to Barcelona's La Masia for the development of talent. With the financial difficulties in Spanish football and at Sporting in particular, the club has relied all the more on the development of local Asturian talent - indeed, that sub-national identity seems, like many football clubs in Spain, to be a key facet of the club's focus and image. All of this fits in very nicely with what I was looking for from my save. I wanted a club that was in a strong league but not one of the dominant clubs, preferably starting in the second tier, with a good academy and established facilities. Sporting ticks all of these boxes.

Relegated from La Liga in 2017, they've been stuck in the second tier since and have come perilously close to further relegation with 17th placed finishes in the last two campaigns. Fans of the Rojiblancos will be hoping that the recent takeover by the Mexican Grupo Orlegi and the appointment of Naldo Musaraña will turn those fortunes around.

Orlegi Sports already own Liga MX clubs Atlas Guadalajara and Santos Laguna, before also taking control of Sporting in June 2022. Multi-club strategies are becoming more popular and Orlegi, under businessman Alejandro Irarragorri, have a vision to utilise their interests in various clubs to compensate for the disadvantages individual clubs would face against the established elite like Barca and Real.

In the process of choosing the new club, I've been reading up on the Orlegi Sports model and, setting aside for a moment the allegations of tax fraud against Señor Irarragorri, their strategic approach looks right up my street. There was some brief interest from English websites until their proposed takeoever of Newcastle United fell through and, if you want to hear what they're all about, you can see a really interesting interview with Alejandro Irarragorri here - TransferRoom - Meet the Atlas owner with global ambitions

Tl;dw? There's absolutely no "spent to win" philosophy. It's about strategy and processes, using analytics and solid business principles to prepare the whole club for success that then benefits the team, the community and the region.

Quote

Never use the money of the future to resolve a problem of the present

I'm conscious that people tend to say a lot of things when taking over a club, with well-polished press releases and weasel words to ingratiate themselves to the fans. But Orlegi (again allegations aside) seem to have walked the talk in Mexico and I'm choosing to assume they will do so in Asturia.

I'm also choosing to introduce an alternate reality where real-life Head Coach Miguel Ángel Ramírez is relieved of his post over the summer of 2023. Ramírez lost his previous role at MLS club Charlotte FC after just 14 games, with rumours of a fractious relationship with the players. In my alternate reality, history has repeated itself at Sporting and Orlegi has, in the face of dressing room complaints, decided to look elsewhere for someone to steward the club's revival.

In this world, Naldo Musaraña is a native of Gijón and played football to a professional level. I've given Musaraña a varied career - imagining he's come through the Mareo academy and played for Sporting through the early 2000s. However, with promotion to La Liga in 2008, Musaraña was deemed of insufficient quality for the top tier and took the opportunity to move to Mexico. Through six years at Santos Laguna, Musaraña took a Mexican passport and then moved into the backroom staff when Orlegi Sports took control of the club. This gives imaginary Musaraña both familiarity with and to the Orlegi hierarchy, and the local connection to the club and the community.

That Mexican dual-nationality will give me better knowledge of the Mexican league and its players, something which I aim to tie into the recruitment policy in an effort to reflect the multi-club structure that the Orlegi takeover brings. The primary focus, though, will be on the 'Guajes' - what the Sportingistas call the club's youth teams. In the interview I linked above, Irarragorri talks about the two Mexican Orlegi clubs and their different approaches. Santos Laguna aim for the first team to be made up of one-third homegrown academy players, one-third Mexicans from other clubs and one-third non-Mexicans. Atlas, with access to a much wider selection of youth players in the Guadalejara area, instead aim for 60% academy players, 10% other Mexican and 30% non-Mexican.

I've yet to decide what I'll aim for with Sporting but I suspect it will be closer to the Atlas proportions that Santos. Conscious that I've rambled for some time, that will be the subject of a later post - along with my thoughts on youth development structure, recruitment , staff, etc etc. For now, that's your lot.

¡Vamos Sporting!

 

[ifinnem]

Looking forward to this!

[SixPointer]

Loving it shrew. Suits your plans down to the ground. Are the Mexican clubs affiliated in the game? Or did you have to tinker with the database to make it happen?

[higgins]

I didn't think you were ready to start a new career so quickly, you certainly chose an interesting club with a stadium that is a little gem, what kind of timeline did you give yourself to get the desired youth production from the club's youth sector?

[Matty Aqua]

Nice idea! it seems like every multi-club ownership model has some shady financial background (Everton is currently being taken over by 777)

[Shrewnaldo]

Thanks @ifinnem @SixPointer @higgins @Matty Aqua  - I'm hoping the save 'lands'

12 hours ago, SixPointer said:

Loving it shrew. Suits your plans down to the ground. Are the Mexican clubs affiliated in the game? Or did you have to tinker with the database to make it happen?

The clubs are affiliated which is really nice. In addition to Atlas and Santos (the two co-owned clubs), there is also a link to América where the Mexican club are actually the senior affiliate. This allows them to send players on loan to Sporting - something which has already happened with Esteban Lozano.

Something which is not implemented in the FM affiliate system, but which I'd like to replicate, is that five players have moved from the affiliated clubs to Sporting on a free over the summer. Joshua Mancha and Sebastián Valenzuela from Santos Laguna, Mauricio Medrano from Atlas and Franco Rossano and Ángel Contreras from América all arrived on out-of-contract deals. They're all youngsters and none of them are particularly exciting but this is definitely an area that I'll look to replicate in my save.

5 hours ago, higgins said:

I didn't think you were ready to start a new career so quickly, you certainly chose an interesting club with a stadium that is a little gem, what kind of timeline did you give yourself to get the desired youth production from the club's youth sector?

It's a good question given my typical attrition with saves is 7-8 seasons. I'm hoping this one will last a bit longer. I'm going to do a wee post with some more detail on the playing pathway that I anticipate but I'm expecting that players will get into the first team at 19 or 20 unless they're really special. That means a handful of the real prospects might make it this season or next, and the newgens will be 2-3 seasons off at least.

[Litmanen 10]

Looking forward to this. Already read your previous story, which was very interesting and well-written. As this will be about Spanish football, it will be even closer to my personal interests. You'll have an active follower here! 

[Shrewnaldo]

Thanks @Litmanen 10 - are you Spanish or just interested in Spanish football? Funnily enough, given your username, I've just been debating with myself whether or not to use a ten or a more withdrawn playmaker.

[Litmanen 10]

Just now, Shrewnaldo said:

Thanks @Litmanen 10 - are you Spanish or just interested in Spanish football? Funnily enough, given your username, I've just been debating with myself whether or not to use a ten or a more withdrawn playmaker.

Just interested in Spanish football in general. I almost always also manage in Spain when playing football manager. 

Number 10 is also my favorite position in football and whenever possible, I try to build the team around him tactically. 

[_Ben_]

Lovely little idea you've got here Shrew! Will be following along.

[Shrewnaldo]

La Escuela de Fútbol de Mareo

A Sporting Heritage - The Guajes of Gijón

The 'Orlegi Way', referred to above, has three pillars:

The infrastructure will be the board's remit. Sporting starts with really good facilities - in FM terms 'Excellent' training facilities and youth facilities and 'good' youth recruitment, although only 'adequate' academy coaching. All I can do to influence that is request upgrades - particularly to that academy coaching which, having spent a bit of time researching the club, feels unrealistically low.

Combining the other two pillars, this post will outline the processes I'm going to put in place to develop the youth players and nurture that talent. One caveat before I start - I'm not claiming this is a tutorial on how to do it, that this is the 'best' or even a good way to develop youth, or that this is some sort of unique approach to development. Like much of my writing on FM, I just use these posts to organise my own thoughts and provide some structure to what would otherwise be a haphazard, disorganised mess relying on luck more than design. 

Here, then, is how I plan to bring the Mareo graduates through the Sporting guajes in FM-terms.

Sporting currently has three sub-teams:

• Sporting B
  • sometimes referred to as Sporting Atlético
  • The B-team, like many in Spain, play within the main footballing pyramid. Sadly for me, they are currently in the Tercera Federación - the Spanish 5th tier which is not playable in FM24. I was tempted to add the Tercera using an editor file but didn't want to risk messing my game up and will instead hope they are swiftly promoted to the playable Segunda Federación with its real fixtures
• Sporting C
  • I'm really not sure about this one. They don't have any real fixtures or take part in any competitions in-game and I can't see any real-life reference to them. I'm assuming this is just intended to refer to one of the other levels of youth team
• Sporting Under-19s
  • self-explanatory but the first youth team which the newgens / signings will join
  • The under-19s play in a nation-wide league system which looks to be split into 7 regional sub-divisions. The winners of each sub-division, along with the best second-placed team, enter into a knock-out tournament to crown a single winner

My first decision was a pretty straight-forward one. Sporting C will be cast aside as, from what I can see, it serves no purpose. With the B team in tier 5, the C team is very unlikely to be promoted into the playable leagues any time soon. Therefore, its staff will be released as soon as I can and it will be kept only as a 'dumping ground' for players that I don't want to disrupt the other teams. What I mean by this is that I may wish to force my B team manager to play a certain player, and can help 'encourage' this by removing any competitors for that position to the C team.

That leaves a very straightforward development pathway: Under 19s > B Team > First Team.

Ideally, I'd love for each of these squads to mirror each other in general structure but not demographics. There are currently 91 players at the club, which is about 65 more than I'd usually be comfortable with. Clearly, 25 is not going to cover all three planned squads but 91 is still too many. Instead, I'm going to aim for 25 in each squad.

• Sporting Under-19s - 25 players:
  • 2 players for each position, plus one versatile defender, one versatile defensive midfielder and one versatile attacking midfielder / striker
  • Only two types of player will be allowed in the under-19s:
    • Mareo graduates
    • Signings from Liga MX under the age of 19, particularly our affiliated clubs Atlas Guadalajara, Santos Laguna and Club América.
  • Once the player is too old for the under-19s, he will face the obvious two solutions:
    • Promotion to Sporting B. This can occur if there is a vacancy in the Sporting B squad (i.e. the incumbent player has moved on) or he is judged a better prospect than either of the incumbent players
    • He is sold. All sold players must include a future fee clause and a buy-back where possible
• Sporting B - 25 players:
  • 2 players for each position, plus one versatile defender, one versatile defensive midfielder and one versatile attacking midfielder / striker
  • Only three types of player will be allowed in Sporting B:
    • Graduates from Sporting Under-19s
    • Signings from Liga MX aged between 19 and 21, particularly our affiliated clubs Atlas Guadalajara, Santos Laguna and Club América
    • Older players from the Sporting first team who may not be good enough for first-team action but have personalities that I wish to keep around to influence the developing players
  • Once the first two types of player has played two full seasons in Sporting B, he will face the two obvious solutions:
    • Promotion to the Sporting first team. This can occur if there is a vacancy in the Sporting first team (i.e. the incumbent player has moved on) or he is judged to be a better player than either of the incumbent players. For exceptional talents, this timeline can be accelerated.
    • He is sold. All sold players must include a future fee clause and a buy-back where possible
• First Team - 25 players
  • 2 players for each position, plus one versatile defender, one versatile defensive midfielder and one versatile attacking midfielder / striker
  • Target homegrown status:
    • 60% trained at club (for 3 years between 15th and 21st birthdays)
      • 15 players
    • 25% trained in nation (for 3 years between 15th and 21st birthdays)
      • 6/7 players
    • 15% neither, i.e. non-Spanish players. La Liga has a maximum of 3 non-EU players, Liga 2 its 2 players.
      • 3/4 players
  • Hopefully by introducing some of the Mexican talent early in the pathway, they will class as trained at the club by the time they reach the first-team, and have obtained Spanish passports. For most nationalities this would take ten years but Mexicans, like other Ibero-Americans, can obtain Spanish citizenship after just two.

I'm afraid I'm not a graphical person so, whilst others might make nice charts etc to show all this, I'll just have to stick to words. I hear people like pie charts though. Here's the target make-up of the first-team squad.

 

As well as aiming for 60% of the squad to have come through the Mareo academy (including augmentation from our Mexican affiliates), I have two other loose targets. The Football Observatory have a number of really interesting analytical reports on global football and two stood out to me as being relevant to this save.

Within this report on the demographics of clubs across the world, the 20 youngest clubs are listed in Figure 3. There's an obvious correlation with those clubs who are prioritising youth development - noting Nordsjælland, Envigado, Volendam, Salzburg and Minsk all examples I knew about. Within the same report, you can see that La Liga overall has an average age of 27.24 years. In game, Sporting's is currently 25.68 and I think it makes absolutely sense for this to drop over the course of the save. Again, this is a change from my recent saves where I've looked for experienced players with established statistical profiles - and that change suits me down to the ground. A target of 23 would suit me nicely.

This second report is even more relevant to my save, showing the percentage of minutes which are played by graduates of that club's academy. Here Athletic Club are miles clear of everyone else in the top-5 leagues with nearly 70% of minutes played by academy graduates. For the global game, Athletic are overtaken by Dynamo Kyiv (82.9%) and FK Minsk (71.5%).

Selecting just La Liga 2 shows that Sporting are already performing really well on this score, with 31.5% of minutes in the 2022/23 season being covered by Mareo graduates. If this number was transposed to La Liga, then Sporting would ranked 7th in the big 5 leagues (106th in the world overall). I'd love to push this number up and ensure that the 60% of first-team squad members that are Mareo graduates are key players who get plenty of minutes. My initial target will be 50% of game time to Mareo graduates (including Mexican imports) and we'll take it from there.

The last thing to consider is the staff. Most FMers will be well aware of the staff's influence on newgen creation and then their development so I'll be aiming for the usual staff attributes. I'll also, like many of you, be paying close attention to staff personalities and prioritising Determination, Professionalism and Ambition where possible. Lastly, I'd like the key staff - B Manager, U-19 Manager, HoYD at least - to have the same tactical preferences as we aim to develop a coherent, club-wide strategy. The only question is: what are those tactical preferences?

Again noting the length of this post, I think the tactical lookahead will have to wait for another time but, and this will come as no surprise, it will certainly be different from the low-block, counter-attacking systems we ran in the Feralpi / Hellas save.

¡Vamos Sporting!

[BML]

Fantastic idea, I'll definitely be following along to this one.

Have you noted any squad rules/restrictions for the B Team? From my experience (admittedly not in Spain) they tend to have rules in place to ensure the biggest clubs don't use them to chuck all their first team/foreign wonderkids in, creating an unfair advantage.

For example, on my Bundesliga save year, I wasn't able to move any non-EU players into the squad once they got promoted to a playable league - making it much more difficult to bring through South Americans and Africans as 'home grown'.

[Shrewnaldo]

1 hour ago, BML said:

Fantastic idea, I'll definitely be following along to this one.

Have you noted any squad rules/restrictions for the B Team? From my experience (admittedly not in Spain) they tend to have rules in place to ensure the biggest clubs don't use them to chuck all their first team/foreign wonderkids in, creating an unfair advantage.

For example, on my Bundesliga save year, I wasn't able to move any non-EU players into the squad once they got promoted to a playable league - making it much more difficult to bring through South Americans and Africans as 'home grown'.

Thanks!

There's a couple of rules which are aimed at the B teams specifically, i.e. in the Primera "the squad must have no more than 4 players in the playing 11 who have been registered for a different team". I *think* that my general strategy is going to be ok with these rules. I don't intend to shift players between teams at all - or at least not temporary shifts for certain fixtures. I may demote a player that just isn't good enough any more, or accelerate the promotion of a particularly talented player. My main concern is that the B team don't get promoted into the Primera at all. That'd be a bit of a disaster.

[rich ruzzian]

Let's hope they promote rather soon ingame. The B-team. 

Really interesting club with that connection to Mexico. I will be following this with real interest. 

[Shrewnaldo]

23 hours ago, rich ruzzian said:

Let's hope they promote rather soon ingame. The B-team. 

Really interesting club with that connection to Mexico. I will be following this with real interest. 

Thanks!

In my Feralpi save, the Sporting B team was promoted into the 4th tier in the first season - so I'm really hoping this happens again. Otherwise, I might be kind of screwed. 

[Kloppy]

18 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Thanks!

In my Feralpi save, the Sporting B team was promoted into the 4th tier in the first season - so I'm really hoping this happens again. Otherwise, I might be kind of screwed. 

You could try a quick test. Edit all B team players in a separate save to be world-class and holiday a year? 

[Shrewnaldo]

13 hours ago, Kloppy said:

You could try a quick test. Edit all B team players in a separate save to be world-class and holiday a year? 

Maybe, but not sure it would give me any more certainty than just waiting until the end of the season and hoping for the best? I suspect that there's an element of randomness to it but it's also weighted to the highest reputation sides in the fifth tier?

[chuckg]

Great idea!!! , Can you show the league settings for this save?

[Shrewnaldo]

8 hours ago, chuckg said:

Great idea!!! , Can you show the league settings for this save?

Do you mean which leagues I have loaded? If so, please see below. If not, please let me know what you mean and I can share that instead!

[SteinkelssonFM]

Hoping this one sticks Shrew, I feel like this could have significant potential. Plus the relationship with Mexico will enable you to unearth some players which you no doubt won't have stumbled across before. All the best 👍

[Shrewnaldo]

Tactics

A Sporting Heritage - The Guajes of Gijón

In the post above, I outlined a general strategy for bringing the youth products through the Mareo academy, supplementing them with some Mexican talent, and providing a pathway through the B team into the senior squad. I also mentioned that I want to tailor the whole system into producing players that fit our tactical strategy - that means looking for key staff that share these principles and shaping the training / traits to suit the anticipated system once the players get to the first team.

All very straightforward but the obvious question is then: "what is Sporting's tactical identity?" I have asked on twitter and looked around online, but there doesn't seem to be any club / fan expectations about particular styles of football. And this is fine - I think the whole idea of 'supporter expectations' of certain types / styles of football is usually sanctimonious nonsense. So unless someone on here is a Sporting fan and wishes to enlighten me, I've just decided to go with my personal preferences.

And having come from the low-block, counter-attacking strategy that we employed at FeralpiSalò and Hellas Verona, I wanted to embrace the change and go back to a shorter passing, more technical style of football. This suits both the current squad and what I typically associate with Spanish football.

The exact shape and roles etc may well change over time - I don't want to constrain myself and get bored - but this system largely suits the starting squad and the key prospects that start at Sporting. A back 3 is another departure from what I'd played in Italy but let's me go with a 3-2 build-up system whilst still employing the strong wing-backs (Cote and Rosas) we have. Sporting also have really good options through central midfield with Mesa and Rivera excellent DMs, ably backed up by Nacho Martín and Jonathan Varane (younger brother of Raphael). Villalba, Méndez, Gaspar and Carillo are all good 10s, whilst Uroš Đurđević is an excellent 9 for this level.

The only players this system doesn't currently suit are wingers Juan Otero and Haissem Hassan - however both are on loan and I was happy to sacrifice their game time in favour of permanent players, particularly Guajes such as Martín and Gaspar.

Like I say, I am not beholden to the shape or the roles. There's enough flexibility there that I can adapt for the players that come through - perhaps opting for a libero or two at the back, perhaps switching the 10s to wide roles, perhaps going to 1-2 up top rather than 2-1. What will not change are the principles behind the style of play - short, quick passing with creativity and flair prioritised and defending on the front foot. Nothing spectacular but a framework to build around and attributes to prioritise.

We've started pretty well, with the board expecting a top half finish. The table itself only tells half the story, with the xG table indicating that we 'should' be top and are underperforming against both our xG and our xGA. I'd immediately identified that goalkeeper was going to be a problem position for us, but the goalscoring is a disappointment as I feel we have the personnel to do well here. But really, it gives me something to work on and that also suits me.

The dozen league games has given me the opportunity to build up the squad depth chart, identifying the two 'incumbents' within each of the three squads for the eleven profiles in the first team. I did try using the in-game squad planner but I'm afraid I find it so buggy, lacking in customisation and clunky to use - so I just went back to excel.

The blank spaces indicate a lack of quality, not quantity. Per the post above, there are 91 players across the four squads but I just couldn't accept some of the options that are available in the B-team or under 19s. Leaving the blank spaces just means that I get to go shopping for youth options as well as first-teamers. And just because there are players in the slots for the first-team doesn't indicate that I'm entirely comfortable with the quality at my disposal. I've already mentioned goalkeeper as an obvious weak spot, but centre-back lacks quality in addition to quantity whilst the two 34 year-olds and one 33 year-old gives me cause for concern.

I really like the recruitment side of FM, though, so this (again) suits me just fine.

Having blocked the first transfer window, we may get an option to do some shopping in January (funds permitting) so I've busied myself with the usual early-game task of recruiting staff instead. 

I'm starting top-down and whilst Director of Football Gerardo García is too expensive to let go, I've brought Esteve Calzada in as Technical Director, primarily in the hope his Model Professional personality will provide some influence to the club. I haven't used a Technical Director before but I plan to delegate the appointment of the B team and under-19 coaching team and medical staff to Calzada. I will retain the power to appoint the senior staff and B-team / U-19 manager until I've seen how Calzada performs.

Whilst I'm still on the lookout for people to fill the manager roles, I've decided to keep the current Head of Youth Development and Assistant Manager in place. These are the other two roles where I want to find the 'perfect fit' in terms of personality, tactical preferences and preferred formations. Garro as HoYD has the attributes I want but not the personality, whilst assistant Gabiña has the attributes and a pretty good personality but not the tactical preferences.

Each is good enough for now whilst I keep an eye out for the right option. Because I don't use the Staff Search screen, this can be a long, drawn-out process.

I'm also beginning to build up the scouting network to give me knowledge in the key markets that I plan to exploit. I plan to set up the scouting assignments, as well as the recruitment focuses, myself but I'm still on the look out for a Chief Scout to head up the team. Carlos Ruiz and Manolo Salvador are superb domestic scouts and I'd like to add one more to allow me to cover senior, part-time and youth football in Spain comprehensively. Alberto Macías doesn't have the greatest attributes but, crucially, comes with knowledge of the all-important Mexican market. Budimir Vujacic comes with extensive knowledge of Albania, Bosnia & Hercegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Greece, North Macedonia, Slovenia, Turkiye, Serbia, Montenegro and England. That's crazy good and he'll be my Eastern European scout. Henrik Andersen, meanwhile, can cover Denmark, Norway, Sweden and the Faroes and also brings extensive knowledge of Germany and Belgium.

One more domestic scout and a Chief to rule them all, then I think we're set.

And they'll be busy. In addition to the gaps I've listed above, four loanees and eight first-team members are out of contract come the end of the season and I intend to keep only one of those - centre back Pablo Insua. So it's very likely that next summer is going to be a busy one and I wouldn't be surprised to see a much higher turnover of personnel than any other season - both in terms of first-team members and development players for the unders. The recruitment priorities will be clear:

1. Promote from within
2. Bring back former Guajes
3. Other Asturian players
4. Youth players from Asturian clubs
5. Players from Liga MX
6. Players from other Spanish communes
7. Non-Spanish signings

To help with items 2-4, I've set up a number of saved filters in the Player Search area. Item 2 is easy - just search for those who are "Trained At Club". For the second and third, I've used the editor to identify all cities and clubs in Asturias. I've then saved searches for every player born in the Asturian cities and every player currently at any Asturian club in top 6 tiers.

In truth, I don't expect to pick up much from priorities 3 and 4, but I'd like to keep my eye out just in case. I think it's both realistic that Sporting would look to hoover up local talent and in line with the Orlegi Sports commitments to benefitting the local area through their investment. 

Their other stated ambition, to recruit from Liga MX, will be constrained by two factors: first that players under 18 are not allowed to be transferred out of Mexico, and secondly that my in-game scouting range is currently restricted to Western Europe. I can do something about the latter and will, as soon as possible, open up the range to include not only Mexico but also Eastern Europe and Scandinavia per the two scouts I've picked up. That, though, will require some additional funding and that will depend on selling players.

Therefore, I await January with some interest. Hopefully we can stay in and round the playoffs but I doubt we are quite good enough to go up this season. We were comfortably beaten by Elche and Eibar, two of the stronger sides in the league, and I see us as being somewhere between 5th and 8th come the end of the campaign. For one final time, that'd suit me just fine - a summer to do some recruitment and then develop a few players next term whilst launching a proper promotion campaign.

¡Siempre Sporting!

[kerrdavidson95]

Compelled to follow along with this Shrew, and I love the philosophy… but I’m an Oviedista, I’m afraid… puto Sporting!

Edited January 13 by kerrdavidson95
Spelling

[Shrewnaldo]

3 hours ago, kerrdavidson95 said:

Compelled to follow along with this Shrew, and I love the philosophy… but I’m an Oviedista, I’m afraid… puto Sporting!

Boooo (but thanks)

[SixPointer]

Wonderful insight Shrew, and great planning. I think the Mexican link provides something special, linked in with your youth driven thinking it’s going to produce some wonderful FM content for us to read into. 

[_Ben_]

On 12/01/2024 at 20:33, Shrewnaldo said:

The recruitment priorities will be clear:

1. Promote from within
2. Bring back former Guajes
3. Other Asturian players
4. Youth players from Asturian clubs
5. Players from Liga MX
6. Players from other Spanish communes
7. Non-Spanish signings

Really like this Shrew! Certainly one of those things that I've always thought of writing about but have never committed, properly, to words.

[Deisler26]

Oh baby, love me some youth development saves. I shall be watching with interest!

[Shrewnaldo]

4 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

Really like this Shrew! Certainly one of those things that I've always thought of writing about but have never committed, properly, to words.

Like you say, I think most of us will have some sort of soft priorities in our head for most saves - certainly with your style of game and other folk who tend to prioritise youth development, or just want to see lots of domestic players in their team.

It's the thing I get most out of from this sort of thread - just organising my thoughts and putting some kind of structure to it, rather than just a general sort of inherent bias.

4 hours ago, Deisler26 said:

Oh baby, love me some youth development saves. I shall be watching with interest!

Thanks! Hope to keep you all entertained.

[higgins]

Nice planning Shrew, by the way, I had a look at your tactic, did you consider to employ a libero in your formation?

[Shrewnaldo]

3 minutes ago, higgins said:

Nice planning Shrew, by the way, I had a look at your tactic, did you consider to employ a libero in your formation?

I have it pencilled in as one of my potential future amendments. I also tried it out in a cup game using one of my back-up centre-backs, Robér Pier, who is more suited to it. I did like the way it could switch to a 2-3 build-up but the two DMs didn't split wide enough when the libero advanced, which was a little frustrating. What I've been finding, though, is that I need to commit one of the two DMs forward a little more once we're established in possession - so I'm thinking that the libero could step up so I get a transition through 3-2 into 2-3 then 2-2 as play progresses up the park.

I might look to employ it more next season and use Insua, the left centre-back, as the libero to push up and cover the space by an RPM or segundo in the left DM slot.

[Shrewnaldo]

The first intake

A Sporting Heritage - The Guajes of Gijón

The first youth intake of the save has arrived and, given the importance of youth to my chosen style, I've decided to give it some focus. I wasn't all that enamoured back in December when we received the preview. 

The 'golden generation' moniker arrives with such frequency that I never pay it much attention, and the role specifics were mediocre. However, this looks a lot more promising (as I write this, I haven't looked at the players yet).

And now, taking a look through the players one-by-one, I'm returning to the general disappointment. Some of them seem fine but I can't say that I'm overly excited about a single one of them. Focusing on those that the game has described as 'top talents' then:

Goalkeeper - Roberto Vacas

Our options in goal are limited and a talented newgen 'keeper is the holy grail. Vacas is not likely to be it. Really good Determination and Handling, whilst his Reflexes and Positioning should tick over into double digits relatively soon. I also like that he has low Eccentricity and decent starting Agility, Balance and Concentration. But One-on-Ones and Command of Area have a long way to go before he could be considered viable. Only 15 and born in Gijón, he's get the chance to develop.

Centre Back Jaime Luis

Ok, he's only 15 but boy do those physicals need to develop. 18 attribute points away from double digits in Acceleration, Agility, Balance and Strength for a centre half feels like a long way to go. And only 6 for Heading. Good starting Positioning, Tackling, Aggression, Bravery and Decisions. Plus primarily left-footed... I'm sceptical though. Born in Villaviciosa (Asturias).

Centre Back Welton

Born in Brazil, eligible for the USA and awaiting his Spanish passport, multi-national Welton looks more of a likely option to me than Luis. Slightly better physicals but weaker mentals, I could be wrong if Luis' mentals help him develop faster. Welton, though, has an Ambitious personality which is likely to help his development. He'll also go into the funnel.

6 Domingo Escribano

Born in Gijón and described as a 'committed' player by the coaching staff, I think Escribano is probably my favourite of the intake. Relatively two-footed and with physicals that aren't far off double-digits for speed and strength, plus excellent Natural Fitness which will reduce his fatigue levels very quickly, he looks like he could become a very handy ball winner at 6. Brave and aggressive with good Teamwork and Work Rate, tidy no the ball and a good decision-maker... ok, I like Escribano quite a lot. I should be able to get his Determination up with some mentoring and maybe teach him some traits like Stay Back At All Times and never dribble... He's the best of the intake for me so far.

10 - Luis Ochoa

Sadly no hint of a Mexican heritage despite the name, Ochoa is another Asturian with terrible physicals. Seriously, don't they have PE at Asturian schools?! Again, pretty two-footed and with some really solid attributes in good areas like First Touch, Passing, Decisions and Balance. There's a player in there and his Fairly Professional personality will help him develop to meet his potential. But there's clearly some gaps - he can't dribble, he lacks composure and concentration, he can't shoot and he doesn't work for the team... plus those physicals. I see a squad player at best.

Left-winger Alejandro Soriano

I don't play wingers, so that's not a great start., Plus he's unambitious. And then we have a winger with 8 pace... I clearly can't turn him into a wingback with 1 for marking, 4 for tackling and 3 for positioning. So what can I turn him into? Honestly, I can't see much of a future for Soriano but I'll retrain him as a 10 to give him a chance to prove me wrong.

Striker Francesc Polo

You may be sensing a theme here but... those physicals. Am I wrong here? Do physicals progress more than they used to? For 15 year-olds, are these physicals actually ok? Because the rest of Polo is pretty damn good. Impressive Determination, Decisions, Flair and Teamwork with solid Off the Ball and, at 15, already pretty handy at most technical attributes for a 9 - Finishing, First Touch, Technique, Passing and Dribbling. It's just those physicals.... so if he develops there then he's another two-footed technically adept option for us - even if he is from the capital down the road.

---------------------------------------------

There are also 7 'good' talents and two 'decent' - none of which I think merit mentioning. So that gives me seven 'top talents' from the so-called Golden Generation. I think Escribano and Polo are the two most likely candidates for future first-team football but I'm certainly open to other ideas.

It's been a long-time since I've focused on youth development and even longer since I've done so in a country that allowed the production of 15 year-olds. So I'd welcome feedback on those physicals specifically. Should I expect to see some sky-rocketing physical attributes across the board? I wouldn't have expected speed attributes to increase all that much, but Strength typically increases over time. What's the general consensus these days? Would a 3-4 attribute point increase for Acceleration / Pace or Agility / Balance be reasonable between 15 and 20? Thoughts welcome.

¡Siempre Sporting!

[higgins]

Numerical attributes? I thought you were playing without numbers, what happened? 

[Shrewnaldo]

13 minutes ago, higgins said:

Numerical attributes? I thought you were playing without numbers, what happened? 

That was in the Feralpi / Hellas Italian save. I wanted to go back to using Rensie's skin and I'm a bit graphical-attributes'd-out for now

[_Ben_]

1 hour ago, Shrewnaldo said:

I don't play wingers, so that's not a great start., Plus he's unambitious. And then we have a winger with 8 pace... I clearly can't turn him into a wingback with 1 for marking, 4 for tackling and 3 for positioning. So what can I turn him into? Honestly, I can't see much of a future for Soriano but I'll retrain him as a 10 to give him a chance to prove me wrong.

 

He's got deep lying forward written all over him, for me! Not that you necessarily start with them but could be a good option to change the 2-1 into a 1-2 at some point in a game? Seeing attention to detail, such as this, does make me miss numerical attributes at times!

[higgins]

36 minutes ago, Shrewnaldo said:

That was in the Feralpi / Hellas Italian save. I wanted to go back to using Rensie's skin and I'm a bit graphical-attributes'd-out for now

Ah well, I recently thought about going numberless but I am not ready and probably never will be 

[Shrewnaldo]

24 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

He's got deep lying forward written all over him, for me! Not that you necessarily start with them but could be a good option to change the 2-1 into a 1-2 at some point in a game? Seeing attention to detail, such as this, does make me miss numerical attributes at times!

I do like this idea. The 2-1 has a lot of advantages in build-up. I find that lone 10s go missing in games, whereas having two in there forces them into positions which are conducive to line-breaking passes through "the midfield box". But the 2-1 means I struggle to get a runner in behind, in the same way that I get with a two-striker system that has one drop and one go. Certainly something to think about next term.

11 minutes ago, higgins said:

Ah well, I recently thought about going numberless but I am not ready and probably never will be 

It's a lot of fun but it can be exhausting at times, particularly when you run into ways in which the interface just makes it very hard to know what's going on - because the game just isn't built to accommodate it.

Edited January 14 by Shrewnaldo

[ifinnem]

Totally doable to get 3-4 point rise and more if the PA is there. Agree with you on the 2 prospects you called out as most likely to make it. Escribano could also make a good FB or IWB if you have need to move him to another spot

[Lestri]

I kinda see it as, 15-18 is when you start seeing people actually going into the gym more to build muscle mass, so I think you can see that grow. I often take a combination of Natural Fitness, Work Rate and Determination, combined with the personality as a good indication of whether they'll go well or not at developing those. Those aren't based on any specific reasoning other than I think they are relevant to fitness growth.

[Litmanen 10]

Haven't really checked how newgens look like in the last few versions of FM I terms of attributes. But in my opinion for years FM had the problem that especially the high potential newgens had way too high physical attributes straight from the start. You could even get a 15-year-old newgens who were straight away better physically than for example Messi in his prime. 

If we take a look at for example Spanish players in general in the past, there is a clear trend that they tend to be more on the intelligent and technical side than being physically strong. 

[SixPointer]

Real lack of physicals. Can it be attribute to the HOYD? What’s his profile like? Is he just focusing on the technical side of the game and letting these youngsters miss out on some old fashioned hard running. 

[-Jef-]

I've always found physicals can go up to +8 on certain individuals so I wouldn't be too concerned. But might have to wait until they are 18-19 before featuring in first squad team sheet.

[Shrewnaldo]

13 hours ago, ifinnem said:

Totally doable to get 3-4 point rise and more if the PA is there. Agree with you on the 2 prospects you called out as most likely to make it. Escribano could also make a good FB or IWB if you have need to move him to another spot

13 hours ago, Lestri said:

I kinda see it as, 15-18 is when you start seeing people actually going into the gym more to build muscle mass, so I think you can see that grow. I often take a combination of Natural Fitness, Work Rate and Determination, combined with the personality as a good indication of whether they'll go well or not at developing those. Those aren't based on any specific reasoning other than I think they are relevant to fitness growth.

9 hours ago, Litmanen 10 said:

Haven't really checked how newgens look like in the last few versions of FM I terms of attributes. But in my opinion for years FM had the problem that especially the high potential newgens had way too high physical attributes straight from the start. You could even get a 15-year-old newgens who were straight away better physically than for example Messi in his prime. 

If we take a look at for example Spanish players in general in the past, there is a clear trend that they tend to be more on the intelligent and technical side than being physically strong. 

7 hours ago, -Jef- said:

I've always found physicals can go up to +8 on certain individuals so I wouldn't be too concerned. But might have to wait until they are 18-19 before featuring in first squad team sheet.

Thanks all, really appreciate the feedback. I think it's safe to say that I shouldn't give up on these newgens thanks to their physicals just yet.

7 hours ago, SixPointer said:

Real lack of physicals. Can it be attribute to the HOYD? What’s his profile like? Is he just focusing on the technical side of the game and letting these youngsters miss out on some old fashioned hard running. 

This is he:

I don't know that any of this lends itself towards specific attribute strengths or deficiencies? Perhaps the coaching style being 'tactical'? But I think that's just a reflection on his coaching attributes... I'm leaning towards this just being the way that 15 year-olds come through. Some good comments above about the natural physical development between 15 and 18, so perhaps this is just more realistic?

[john1]

Interesting club to start with Didn't they have a player that was highly rated on FM22/23? Completely forgot his name Good luck with this! Will be keeping close eye on this!

[Shrewnaldo]

2 hours ago, john1 said:

Interesting club to start with Didn't they have a player that was highly rated on FM22/23? Completely forgot his name Good luck with this! Will be keeping close eye on this!

Maybe José Gragera? He's a holding midfielder that's pretty decent but was sold to Espanyol. He's definitely one I've got my eye on and would love to get him back to El Molinón.

[higgins]

16 minutes ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Maybe José Gragera? He's a holding midfielder that's pretty decent but was sold to Espanyol. He's definitely one I've got my eye on and would love to get him back to El Molinón.

Or Queipo?

[Shrewnaldo]

1 hour ago, higgins said:

Or Queipo?

Quiepo looks like he could be decent, but he's really been quite poor this season. I sent him out on loan to Cultural Leonesa and he's been average in the Primera. Leonesa might be a poor team but I'd have expected him to be way better at that level.

[Shrewnaldo]

4 games left and the race for the playoffs is on. Valladolid are 13 points clear at the top and will win the league. Zaragoza are probably favourites to take the second automatic spot but their remaining home games are tough. Espanyol have the hardest run-in but we're not far behind with the Asturian derby making that Oviedo game even tougher - and Cartagena might still be fighting for survival.

I would not be upset if we didn't go up. I think we really need another season in the second tier to develop some of the youth. I've been doing some experimenting tactically - trying out two striker systems - and giving a lot of minutes to peripheral guajes so I can see who are candidates for next season. Unusually, our away form has been keeping us in the playoff spots and we've really struggled to score at home

[Shrewnaldo]

After signing most of the intake, two additional players have been classified as "top talents". They are:

Centre back Paz has a 'fickle' personality which isn't a great start and suffers from the same shocking physicals as the rest of the newgens. His Teamwork and Work Rate also suck, so I don't have much faith in him.

Romanian Chiripus looks like a decent 6. 6'2", aggressive with some decent mentals and his physicals aren't absolutely awful. I'm really not sure about the Stops Play trait, but I think the Romanian has something about him. I prefer Escribano, who is listed as the intake's star graduate, but he should get me a little bit of money even if he doesn't push on into the first team.

[Chris_ANZFM]

Here I am 😂.

What a wonderful start this has gotten off to. Really enjoy the concept, couple geographical areas of the game that I’ve never paid much attention too so I get to enjoy this all as new. 
 

Also, just wanted to make a special mention to the moustache on that CB in the intake, absolutely outstanding. 

[Litmanen 10]

Just to add to the previous message about physical attributes. This is Harry Kane at the beginning in FM 2010. A player that turned up to be a really complete player physically but far from it when he was almost 16 years old. 

[Shrewnaldo]

1 hour ago, Litmanen 10 said:

Just to add to the previous message about physical attributes. This is Harry Kane at the beginning in FM 2010. A player that turned up to be a really complete player physically but far from it when he was almost 16 years old. 

Yikes at that Determination. The shirt has massive van de Vaart flashbacks for me

Thanks, though. I don't recall if Kane developed as well in FM10 as he did in real life?