Tips for newbies: how to choose whatever shape formation you want and make it work

[Muja]

NOTE:
The aim of this guide is for new players to be able to have the fun of creating a tactic that can be whatever the shape they want, while advising them on what instructions can win them more matches.
The tips I am about to give you will NOT allow you to rout AI and lead a team that should be fighting for relegation to win the league title.
More importantly, this is not the only way to succeed in this fantastic game. It's just one of many, and surely not even the best one.

Someone who actually knows how to make good tactics, specifically tailored to his players, will achieve BETTER results.

BUT this tips will be enough to allow you to:

• choose any shape; 4231, 442, 352, 343, you name it!
• achieve positive results, often above expectations for your team

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Hello everyone!

I have been playing Football Manager for twenty years, since it was still called "Championship Manager". And yet, I'll tell you right now: I am NOT an expert in tactics. Everything I know (and would like to pass on to you with this post) comes from hours and hours of testing I do every year to find out what works best in the ME of the newest version of the game.

Testing that I have also just completed for FM24, on the early access version, and am sharing with others for the first time. And yes, things may change slightly when new patches come out, but much of the advice I'm about to give you has been working since FM21, so I hope this guide doesn't become obsolete too soon.

The Basics

Football Manager allows you to save as many as three different tactics, but in my case you only need two: an offensive one, and a defensive one.

It is recommended that both have the same shape, because this will speed up the familiarity level of your players, with a few exceptions that I will tell you about later.

You can use the third tactic to train players in a different shape, just in case.

Team Instructions

There are team instructions that are not only good for both tactics, but I personally highly recommend in general.

• Shorter passing: this is new in FM24, but with the new ME and positional play, in my tests it turns out that this instruction is better to have than not to have it.
• Pass into space: this instruction is very good since FM21; it basically makes your players pass the ball forward, and NOT on the feet of their teammates; useful for attacking spaces
• Play out of defence: this is also an instruction that works much better in the new ME; to do without it is to deprive oneself of a powerful weapon for the struggle of ball possession
• Run at defence: this instruction works very well with short passing; without it, your players would end up missing passes when they have no options, thus losing possession; this instruction will NOT tell all your players to dribble the opponent like madmen, but to move forward with the ball when they have no passing options
• Roll it out: this instruction tells your goalkeeper not to throw the ball forward haphazardly; this, too, is useful so you don't lose possession unnecessarily
• distribute quickly: this instruction also tells your goalkeeper to pass the ball quickly, and not to wait for the opponents to reposition themselves in defense
• counter: there's really no reason not to attempt a nice counterattack as soon as you win the ball; whether you want to attack or defend, it's a great way to catch the opponent's defense unprepared
• Trigger press: more often and Get stuck in: I think you should always press a little, because whether you want to defend or attack you NEVER want to be too passive in defense; also "get stuck in" could increase the number of yellow cards, but I think it's worth it (you can and should turn it off if the referee is being particularly harsh, though)

Shape, Roles and Duties

Let's start with this: any shape can work, you can choose whatever you want (depending on your players and roster, of course). What's really important are roles and duties.

Football Manager allows you to choose from a wide range of roles for your players, but some are statistically more effective than others.

• DC: Ball Playing Defenders on defend; in defense, they don't behave much differently from the more common central defenders, but they can handle the ball much better and help you with keeping possession, even if they have low attributes in technique and passing. I don't really know why, but they do.
• Wings: it is essential to have ONE player on each flank who creates width; wing-backs and wingers do exactly this, but if you place them both on the same flank one of the two must be inverted; Inside forwards have mixed performances this year too
• DM:
  • if you have one, a Dm-su or Dm-de are very good; they occupy space in front of the defense and are reliable, as well as very useful for defending against teams that use an AMC
  • if you have two, you can add a Segundo Volante; this role performs very well again this year, providing both defensive solidity and attacking support, just like a Box to Box midfielder
• CM:
  • Cm-at and Mez-at are very efficient roles; in particular, if you don't have an AMC, they will rise to the limits of the opponent's box and occupy its place; the mezzala can help to provide width, but I find that for that it is still better to rely on real wing players
  • Box to Box midfielder is still very good, and for him what was said for the volante applies (even if he seems a little less effective in defense)
  • So, if you only have two players as CM, you can use a Cm-at + BtB partnership; I would advise against using three CMs in a flat line; better to drop one in DM position, and then use both CMs as Cm-at, or Mez-at if you need more width and support on the flanks (like, for example, if you don't use AML/R)
• AMC: there is one role here that performs much better than any other, and that is the Shadow Striker; ignore the description: each player will play this role in their own way depending on their attributes; a creative player will make many assists, one more skilled in off-the-ball movement and finishing will focus on scoring goals
• AF-At: whether alone or in pairs, you can never go wrong with an Advance Forward

The new roles that come with this year's edition (the new Libero and inverted full-back) are also very good, BUT they require a good understanding of tactics and positional play when in possession. Sorry, but I can't help you there!

Offensive Tactic

This is the tactic you should use when playing against a team less strong than yours, in a match you are expected to win. When using a big team, you will mostly want to use this one.

• Use the positive mentality; in the past I would have always recommended using "attacking", but lately I found that mentality to be a little too offensive and should only be used when you are desperately looking for a goal
• higher tempo and work ball into box; they will ensure that your players try to move the ball quickly towards the opponent's goal, without shooting from too difficult positions
• High press, Prevent Short GK distribution and Drop Off More when out of possession;
  • you can get away with using the infamous gegenpress combo (high press, higher defensive line, step up more, much higher trigger press) only when you have a top team with a long roster and quality subs, otherwise don't bother: the players will quickly become exhausted, and the results will stop coming; the instructions written above achieve a good compromise between intensity and defensive solidity (but it's still quite demanding, so be sure to rotate your players when possible)

If you have players in the AM strata, it's a good idea to give them attack duty. You're attacking, you want players looking to score.

Defensive Tactic

You can use this tactic when you face a team much stronger than yours, or when you want to defend a lead. Keep in mind that there is no certain way to absolutely prevent your opponents from scoring, especially if they are the stronger team; but you will certainly limit the goals conceded.

On the other hand, if you have world-class defenders and want to be a Simeone or Allegri style manager, this can become your primary tactic.

This type of tactic is usually more difficult to recreate, because many don't understand one thing: in FM, the best way to defend is to play possession football. This doesn't mean that you want to win the possession battle: you just want to play it safe and take fewer risks, with patience and even wasting time in the process.
It's true that defensive teams usually look for a quick turnaround as soon as they recover the ball... but that's what the "counter" command does. Outside of those situations, you want to keep the ball and not throw it away randomly.

• Use the cautious mentality; if you feel like you're still taking too many risks, go "defensive"
• slightly lower tempo, be more disciplined and narrow attacking width; these instructions will ensure that your team defends as a single block, and that in possession of the ball they do not take unnecessary risks
• Regroup in transition: when you lose the ball, you want your players to line up in an orderly defense as soon as possible
• Low Block and Drop off more will make your team harder to pierce by putting many men behind the ball line

If you have players in the AM strata, you could give them support duty. Previously I told you that the two tactics should maintain the same shape, but if you have the right players it may be useful to lower the position of the AMs on the midfield line (AML/R --> ML/R, AMC --> MC) because they will be much more useful in defense, while still pushing forward when attacking. Likewise, it can be helpful to add a DM.

Conclusions

And that's all, folks!

Tactical experts may turn up their noses at some of my advice, or say (rightly so) that there are more effective ways to set up a tactic.

And, in fact, by following my advice you WILL still LOSE some games.

If you want to win every match with a low-ranking team, the web is already full of tactics that you can download, plug and play.

But if winning all the time bores you and you'd rather be able to choose your own shape, tweak with instructions and still get good results, then I hope these tips will be useful to you.

Let me know how it goes! If you have better tips, share them here!

And good game to everyone.
 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Muja
Better formatting

[mibsweden]

This is most excellent advice!

[Muja]

31 minuti fa, mibsweden ha scritto:

This is most excellent advice!

Thank you, glad I could be of help!
With some of my most recent tests, I think I've found even better instructions for the defensive tactic. Small changes, but still, much more effective.
I'll do some more and then update the main post.

[bosque]

I agree with most of the advice but I dont' know If I misunderstood something. Are you suggesting to play with a CMa and BBM in a two man midfield?

[kingjericho]

I definitely do not agree with all the tips but good job nonetheless.

If you have an idea in your head of how you want to play, start with the tactic presets and adjust slightly as needed. Or, use a clean slate and use just the essential Team Instruction that you really want to see, and then adjust as needed.

[Muja]

2 ore fa, bosque ha scritto:

I agree with most of the advice but I dont' know If I misunderstood something. Are you suggesting to play with a CMa and BBM in a two man midfield?

Actually, yes. I know it's a weird option... But in my tests, it works. 
Look at this formation:
https://imgur.com/h3E9SSQ

And this is the results I obtained with it:
https://imgur.com/URWWvDJ

You could think it was a fluke, but it's worked in many other tests, too!

1 ora fa, kingjericho ha scritto:

I definitely do not agree with all the tips but good job nonetheless.

If you have an idea in your head of how you want to play, start with the tactic presets and adjust slightly as needed. Or, use a clean slate and use just the essential Team Instruction that you really want to see, and then adjust as needed.

I've had terrible luck with the presets. Like, terrible. Good teams performing horribly with the style suggested by the assistant.
I started my tests to find something that works, and this is what I came up with.
 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Muja

[Anteater]

What kind of testing do you do to find what works well?

[bezzy1970]

@Muja

I just have to say its working wonders for me with Nottingham Forrest so thank you.

Do you mind me asking what skin you are using please because it looks great ??

Edited November 10, 2023 by bezzy1970

[Muja]

1 ora fa, bezzy1970 ha scritto:

@Muja

I just have to say its working wonders for me with Nottingham Forrest so thank you.

Do you mind me asking what skin you are using please because it looks great ??

Glad I could be of help! And that’s the Flut skin. Some people don’t like it because every page is so condensed with info… but that’s exactly why I like it!

4 ore fa, Anteater ha scritto:

What kind of testing do you do to find what works well?

I pick one League in full level of detail, delegate everything, holyday for a season with “always use this tactic” and after that, I watch the games that catch my eyes. If everything seems to be working fine, I go on for another few seasons and then I test the tactic again with other teams and leagues of different level. 
 

Since I’ve been doing it for years, I also have a good base to start with.

[Johnny Ace]

36 minutes ago, Muja said:

I pick one League in full level of detail, delegate everything, holyday for a season with “always use this tactic” and after that, I watch the games that catch my eyes. If everything seems to be working fine, I go on for another few seasons and then I test the tactic again with other teams and leagues of different level. 

It's a bit of a gamey way of playing the game and with the amount of variables in the game, it's possible to "retest" under the same conditions and get different results 

These methods usually find the FM Meta, testing sites usually achieve this pretty quickly where they lock fitness and morale so not not to skew the results 

The best way for new players is to play the game and tweak their tactics for the players they have, the results they're getting and the football they see their team play 

Interesting thread though @Muja

 

[Muja]

1 ora fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

The best way for new players is to play the game and tweak their tactics for the players they have, the results they're getting and the football they see their team play 

Interesting thread though @Muja

 

Thank you!
And I absolutely agree with you. That's the best way, and you even get better results in the long run.
The only downside of  that method is that in-game documentation and tutorials aren't really much help to inexperienced players. 
"Watch the match and tweak the instructions a bit as needed," yes, but HOW?
We are failing to keep possession of the ball, but why? 
My defense always gets pierced too easily, what am I doing wrong? Is it the players' fault? Or the tactics?

There is really no way to figure these things out except to watch the games, often FULLY, and try to "guess" the problem... and then "guess" how to fix it. Or go on youtube and look for guides and study and... maybe in a couple of months you'll finally know how to play a game that you've spent quite a bit of money to be able to play.

Not everyone wants to, or even can, spend that much time on a videogame. I'm trying to help those guys. 
 

1 ora fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

It's a bit of a gamey way of playing the game and with the amount of variables in the game, it's possible to "retest" under the same conditions and get different results 

This is also true, but I can assure you that I have tested these suggestions thoroughly and can guarantee that they give results.

Not EXTRAORDINARY results, because I am not really looking for the meta. But acceptable results, allowing you to finish eighth in the league with a team that should have finished tenth.
Or to fight for the championship with a team that was not the favorite.

In short, to have fun and reduce frustrations :P 

[daniel700]

4 hours ago, Muja said:

The only downside of  that method is that in-game documentation and tutorials aren't really much help to inexperienced players. 
"Watch the match and tweak the instructions a bit as needed," yes, but HOW?
We are failing to keep possession of the ball, but why? 
My defense always gets pierced too easily, what am I doing wrong? Is it the players' fault? Or the tactics?

Spot on! and I am not even inexperienced, but I still struggle to get it right.. I always try to set up my own tactics but usually end up testing different plug and play tactics, which is not as satisfying at all.. But my own tactics seems to perform ok/well/good a few matches and then starts to underperform again.

And thats where your points come into view because I cant seem to identify the problem and even if I could.. how to fix it? and why does my tactics perform for a few matches and then not? I am not asking you, but I just point out that you are right.. 

4 hours ago, Muja said:

There is really no way to figure these things out except to watch the games, often FULLY, and try to "guess" the problem... and then "guess" how to fix it. Or go on youtube and look for guides and study and... maybe in a couple of months you'll finally know how to play a game that you've spent quite a bit of money to be able to play.
 

Again spot on regarding the "guessing game".. 

And the guides is often hard to use if you (me) are not sure what the problem is.. and a lot of times advices goes in very different directions..

Like rotate between different tactics for different games (home, away, big etc.) VS keep the samt tactic and only tweak it depending on the match situation..

or the less is more approach, dont use to many TI´s and PI´s unless you understand them VS others who uses a lot of individual instructions.. 

I appreciate everyone who takes their time to guide others and I am sure that everyone means well.. But as you point out, it is hard to decode what to do for your tactic if you are not sure whats the problem is.. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by daniel700
wrote something wrong..

[jens_dewit]

5 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

It's a bit of a gamey way of playing the game and with the amount of variables in the game, it's possible to "retest" under the same conditions and get different results 

These methods usually find the FM Meta, testing sites usually achieve this pretty quickly where they lock fitness and morale so not not to skew the results 

The best way for new players is to play the game and tweak their tactics for the players they have, the results they're getting and the football they see their team play 

Interesting thread though @Muja

 

While I agree with your views, I have to say I've been on the other side for a long time too... Playing this game, not seeing what was going wrong... It's easy to say 'test, look at how it plays out and adjust if necessary', but what if (even after years of practice) you still don't recognise what you're looking for?

On the other hand, playing with everyone on an attack role just seems wrong too  But glad this type of thread exists now. I bet I would've been glad for it back in the day  

[Muja]

48 minuti fa, jens_dewit ha scritto:

On the other hand, playing with everyone on an attack role just seems wrong too  

There's also a defensive strategy 

With this tactic, for example:
https://imgur.com/vJHcT2D

I didn't win the league (we came second) but we were the best defense of the league, with only 20 goals conceded, full-on Allegri-style  

Edited November 10, 2023 by Muja
fixed link

[dzek]

5 hours ago, Muja said:

The only downside of  that method is that in-game documentation and tutorials aren't really much help to inexperienced players. 
"Watch the match and tweak the instructions a bit as needed," yes, but HOW?
We are failing to keep possession of the ball, but why? 
My defense always gets pierced too easily, what am I doing wrong? Is it the players' fault? Or the tactics?

*i will add experienced players too

 

This explains why most players just want a "plug and play" tactic. When I first played FM it was FM13 and I started building my own tactics. I just watched my team fall apart on the pitch. I didn't know what to take away what to add and generally didn't understand what I was doing.

Then I looked here and there for help from other more experienced players and I ended up playing plug and play tactics because it took a weight off my shoulders so I could get on with other things in the game and knowing now that if my tactics aren't working then it's down to the players and not the tactics.

At FM23 I thought I'd give it another go and go with the "normal way” of playing and build tactics based on my team and the abilities of my players, as we now have more stats available within the game. Again I ended up not being able to cope as to what is wrong, what to change or leave out etc.

Now I ended up making tactics with instructions that ME "loves" more and I enjoy it more until something change on UI.

Edited November 10, 2023 by dzek

[daniel700]

31 minutes ago, dzek said:

*i will add experienced players too

Now I ended up making tactics with instructions that ME "loves" more and I enjoy it more until something change on UI.

I agree with everything you wrote.. I fell the same and also ended up downloading plug and play tactics, even thou I rather would create my own..

I dont understand the last you wrote?

What does it mean "making tactics with instructions that ME loves? and what is UI?

[Muja]

2 ore fa, dzek ha scritto:

I ended up playing plug and play tactics

1 ora fa, daniel700 ha scritto:

I fell the same and also ended up downloading plug and play tactics, even thou I rather would create my own..

I agree with you guys, and I ended up downloading tactics, too... But once I found those meta, gamebreaking tactics, I could win the league with low-end teams, and the fun completely went out of the game.

That's why I started making my own tests. I wanted a good framework, but not TOO good that I couldn't enjoy the game anymore, and also adaptable with any shape, so I didn't have to turn EVERY team I managed into a 4231 samey machine.

1 ora fa, daniel700 ha scritto:

What does it mean "making tactics with instructions that ME loves?

That's basically my guide, I guess. 

1 ora fa, daniel700 ha scritto:

and what is UI?

"User Interface". I think he means "until we'll have better in-game guides".

All I would need is a system within the match engine that is able to tell you the flaws in your tactics, not spoon-feeding you the solutions but letting you get there on your own. That would be enough in my opinion.

For example, "your right wing is often losing the ball because he is too isolated."
Okay, then I will look for a way to give him more support. 
Done, I am intrigued, and any tactical problem would be a challenge, and not an archaic mystery.

The problem is that I think developing something like that would require a huge effort because after all these years the Match Engine must have become a BEAST of codes that is not easily interpreted even by the programmers themselves.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Muja

[churchy.brighton]

Great post @Muja

Like you I've been playing since the Championship manager days but always download plug and play tactics, the reason for this is as much as I watch the match engine I still don't know what to change?

You have inspired me to give creating a offensive and Defensive tactic a go!

I'm just starting a save with Brighton and Hove Albion and have create a offensive and defensive tactic. I have added any players yet, I've used you explanation above to create them as was wondering if I m going do the right track?

Any advice is appreciated 

[Muja]

36 minuti fa, churchy.brighton ha scritto:

Great post @Muja

Thank you!

37 minuti fa, churchy.brighton ha scritto:

I'm just starting a save with Brighton and Hove Albion and have create a offensive and defensive tactic. I have added any players yet, I've used you explanation above to create them as was wondering if I m going do the right track?

Any advice is appreciated 

It seems you're on the right track. It'll probably work well as it is. 
But, following my tips to the letter, I'd give you these advices:

Offensive formation

- Use Inverted Winger instead of Inside Forward on the left side (inside forwards aren't very reliable this year)
- Use Inverted Wingback on the right side, instead of the Fullback (because you already have the winder giving width on that side of the pitch)
- Use Segundo Volante instead of Deep Lying Playmaker (Segundo Volantes are very, very effective!)

Defensive formation

- give support duties to all the players but the advanced forward (you want to defend!)
- use another Box to Box midfielder instead of the Cm-At (again, you want to defend! The BtB will still push forward but will also help defending)
- Use Inverted Wingback on the right side, instead of the Fullback (just like for the offensive formation)
- move "trigger press" (in "out of possession") to the MAX! You're defending with a low block, but as soon as the opponents try to enter that block, you have to assault them!

These tips should help you perform slightly better, but as I said, I think the formations you created are already good.

Let me know how it goes! I'm rooting for you!

[churchy.brighton]

@Muja thank for the advice I have now gone with these two formations and roles 

I'm just finishing pre-season but I've had 2 positive results since using both formation (Its early days and know its only pre-season). I will give you an update as the season goes on.

 

[bosque]

49 minutes ago, churchy.brighton said:

@Muja thank for the advice I have now gone with these two formations and roles 

I'm just finishing pre-season but I've had 2 positive results since using both formation (Its early days and know its only pre-season). I will give you an update as the season goes on.

 

I would swap your pivots in the 4231. So the holding midfielder covers the WB going forward and gives space to the IW to invert, creating space for the WB. And on the other side now the IWB will occupy the space vacated by the SV going forward and the SV will occupy the right half space the Winger on attack will not use.

Edited November 10, 2023 by bosque

[dzek]

5 hours ago, daniel700 said:

I dont understand the last you wrote?

What does it mean "making tactics with instructions that ME loves? and what is UI?

There are some team instructions on the game which are OP like “Pass Into Space” but is also true that you have to use players roles to encourage/support that instruction for example AF, SS etc.

UI is what you see and interact with, within a game. So as @Muja says i want to see better explanations of each instruction and better explanations of what is going wrong of my tactic.

Edited November 10, 2023 by dzek

[daniel700]

4 hours ago, Muja said:

I agree with you guys, and I ended up downloading tactics, too... But once I found those meta, gamebreaking tactics, I could win the league with low-end teams, and the fun completely went out of the game.

That's why I started making my own tests. I wanted a good framework, but not TOO good that I couldn't enjoy the game anymore, and also adaptable with any shape, so I didn't have to turn EVERY team I managed into a 4231 samey machine.

That's basically my guide, I guess. 

"User Interface". I think he means "until we'll have better in-game guides".

All I would need is a system within the match engine that is able to tell you the flaws in your tactics, not spoon-feeding you the solutions but letting you get there on your own. That would be enough in my opinion.

For example, "your right wing is often losing the ball because he is too isolated."
Okay, then I will look for a way to give him more support. 
Done, I am intrigued, and any tactical problem would be a challenge, and not an archaic mystery.

The problem is that I think developing something like that would require a huge effort because after all these years the Match Engine must have become a BEAST of codes that is not easily interpreted even by the programmers themselves.

Thank you for the answers and yes, that would be great with that kind of advice in the game. Maybe some kind of feedback on your tactic like a tactically discussion with your staff about your current tactic. I know assistant already providing suggestions before and during matches but I dont really understand the reason behind it which is what I need. Lets hope SI will implement something like this in the future.

[daniel700]

57 minutes ago, dzek said:

There are some team instructions on the game which are OP like “Pass Into Space” but is also true that you have to use players roles to encourage/support that instruction for example AF, SS etc.

 

UI is what you see and interact with, within a game. So as @Muja says i want to see better explanations of each instruction and better explanations of what is going wrong of my tactic.

Thank you for the answer.

Yeah that would be great for future games.

[Muja]

2 ore fa, bosque ha scritto:

I would swap your pivots in the 4231. So the holding midfielder covers the WB going forward and gives space to the IW to invert, creating space for the WB. And on the other side now the IWB will occupy the space vacated by the SV going forward and the SV will occupy the right half space the Winger on attack will not use.

Yeah, good advice, makes totally sense!

3 ore fa, churchy.brighton ha scritto:

@Muja thank for the advice I have now gone with these two formations and roles 

I'm just finishing pre-season but I've had 2 positive results since using both formation (Its early days and know its only pre-season). I will give you an update as the season goes on.

Unfortunately pre-season matches are not really indicators of the quality of a tactic.
You'll see the real stuff once official matches begin.
But if results should not come at first, don't be discouraged. It will take 2-3 games before players become familiar with the primary tactic.

[sicosimatic1001]

Thanks for this @Muja, you've actually inspired me to give creating a tactic another go, rather than downloading another Knap...

[Muja]

2 ore fa, sicosimatic1001 ha scritto:

Thanks for this @Muja, you've actually inspired me to give creating a tactic another go, rather than downloading another Knap...

I'm glad, that was exactly my intent! 

Let me know how it goes!

[AI-brahimovic]

This is a great post. I'd say I'm following 80% of what you do for the same reasons. Played FM for about 13 years now and I think that you can make almost "anything" work, as long as you're following some basic rules. Recently (especially now with FM 24) I struggle the most with 3 ATB formations though. Conceding a lot of goals there, and I don't know how to stop it because having 3 defenders all at once doesn't seem to be much of an advantage anymore. So I wonder if there were any "specific" rules / advice you follow when building a 3 ATB formation @Muja? 

[Skywalk3r83]

Good post! Playing since CM9798 and still learning about tactics.
I use the preset Gegenpress tactic atm and works fine with Brighton in my first season, but with your information i'm going to tweak it a bit to see if i can beat the top 6

[Muja]

Il 15/11/2023 in 10:29 , AI-brahimovic ha scritto:

This is a great post. I'd say I'm following 80% of what you do for the same reasons. Played FM for about 13 years now and I think that you can make almost "anything" work, as long as you're following some basic rules. Recently (especially now with FM 24) I struggle the most with 3 ATB formations though. Conceding a lot of goals there, and I don't know how to stop it because having 3 defenders all at once doesn't seem to be much of an advantage anymore. So I wonder if there were any "specific" rules / advice you follow when building a 3 ATB formation @Muja? 

In my tests with a 3 ATB formations, my above tips still apply: all three defenders were BPD, and on the flanks I used two wing-backs on support (this should make a 5 players defending line when you don’t have the ball). I actually found that the  3-4-3 or 3-4-1-2 formations (with 2 DMs and 2 wingbacks) had the best performances in terms of goals conceded. 

 

23 ore fa, Skywalk3r83 ha scritto:

Good post! Playing since CM9798 and still learning about tactics.
I use the preset Gegenpress tactic atm and works fine with Brighton in my first season, but with your information i'm going to tweak it a bit to see if i can beat the top 6

Thank you, and I hope it’ll work! 
I didn’t have great luck with the Gegenpress preset when I tested it with lower teams

[Bahnzo]

One bit of new player advice I would give: train your players for their position AND role for your tactic. For example- don't let your right Wing Back train simply as a D(R), make sure they are training as a WB-support, if that's your role for them in the tactic. This gives your whole team familiarity with your tactic and some cohesion. You can see this in the Familiarity bar on your tactics screen. 

Seems obvious, but I rarely see people mention this (maybe because it's so obvious?)

[phnompenhandy]

3 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

One bit of new player advice I would give: train your players for their position AND role for your tactic. For example- don't let your right Wing Back train simply as a D(R), make sure they are training as a WB-support, if that's your role for them in the tactic. This gives your whole team familiarity with your tactic and some cohesion. You can see this in the Familiarity bar on your tactics screen. 

Seems obvious, but I rarely see people mention this (maybe because it's so obvious?)

It's not that obvious, though. In higher-rep teams with sizable squads you want to specialise, but in lower leagues with limited squads, a bit of flexibility is needed.  You might want a defender who can play anywhere along the back line. Your right back might be a wingback one season, but with changes in personnel and tactics, the next season you need him to operate as a defensive fullback.

[dzek]

On 16/11/2023 at 14:00, Muja said:

I actually found that the  3-4-3 or 3-4-1-2 formations (with 2 DMs and 2 wingbacks) had the best performances in terms of goals conceded.

When you are saying best in terms of goals conceded, you mean they concede too many goals or fewer?

[Muja]

Il 19/11/2023 in 07:27 , dzek ha scritto:

When you are saying best in terms of goals conceded, you mean they concede too many goals or fewer?

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant those formations give the best defensive performances, so they concede less goals.

[dzek]

55 minutes ago, Muja said:

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant those formations give the best defensive performances, so they concede less goals.

I can't forgive you for what you did to us. We're all disappointed. 

[Muja]

Il 20/11/2023 in 11:12 , dzek ha scritto:

I can't forgive you for what you did to us. We're all disappointed. 

LOL!

[Heavyman39]

Hello, good post @Muja 

You have inspired me to give creating a tactic. Is it all right?

[Muja]

38 minuti fa, Heavyman39 ha scritto:

Hello, good post @Muja 

You have inspired me to give creating a tactic. Is it all right?

It looks fine, yes!

give it a try, and let me know if it worked!

[Willian]

Hi,

I'm in 2033/34 with Chester, playing in the Premier League with a strong starting eleven.

Can I get some thoughts on this please? We're not scoring enough goals despite having some of the best strikers in the league.

Many thanks!

[Muja]

Il 23/11/2023 in 02:39 , Willian ha scritto:

Hi,

I'm in 2033/34 with Chester, playing in the Premier League with a strong starting eleven.

Can I get some thoughts on this please? We're not scoring enough goals despite having some of the best strikers in the league.

Many thanks!

Hi!
Following my tips to the letter, I'd do something like this:
 

[Muja]

1 minuto fa, Muja ha scritto:

Hi!
Following my tips to the letter, I'd do something like this:
 

*all of that without the "frequently waste time" instruction, it slipped!

[sicosimatic]

I had some good results using the advice on the thread, but I cannot make an away/defensive tactic to save my life.

I don't create anything and just end up losing by 2-3 goals without fail whenever I use a Cautious/Defensive mentality.

[Muja]

Il 29/11/2023 in 11:27 , sicosimatic ha scritto:

I had some good results using the advice on the thread, but I cannot make an away/defensive tactic to save my life.

I don't create anything and just end up losing by 2-3 goals without fail whenever I use a Cautious/Defensive mentality.

Unfortunately, is very, VERY hard to create a successful defending tactic in FM. 
After the new patch, even the defending instructions I posted here are not as effective anymore. 
And the AMC has become useless at creating chances once again.

I'll have to update this guide after more tests.

[dzek]

On 29/11/2023 at 12:27, sicosimatic said:

I had some good results using the advice on the thread, but I cannot make an away/defensive tactic to save my life.

I don't create anything and just end up losing by 2-3 goals without fail whenever I use a Cautious/Defensive mentality.

You don't need to create a defensive system for away games. Your best option is to use Balanced. Anything below that you are just inviting pressure and that will result in goals against your team. If you want to score goals you play with an Attacking or Positive mentality and if you want to keep it going and your team is still threatening then you play with Balanced for the rest of the game.

[Muja]

2 ore fa, Muja ha scritto:

Unfortunately, is very, VERY hard to create a successful defending tactic in FM. 
After the new patch, even the defending instructions I posted here are not as effective anymore. 
And the AMC has become useless at creating chances once again.

I'll have to update this guide after more tests.

Nevermind, today's patch seems to have reverted things. 
My tips are working once again, even better than before... maybe even too much, at least for the attacking tactic.
I'm gonna run some tests with the defensive tactic now.

That said, AMC is still performing poorly.