3-4-2-1 Mid Block: Control and Attack Space

[kr10]

Hi guys - long time FM player here. 

Some of you might rememeber the tactic I created for FM 21 and 22: 4-4-2, Control and Attack Space: 

 

 

I decided to make another tactic this year, with the similar principles of play.

Overall Philosophy

1. Balance: I am a defense first manager. My tactics have to be balanced and defensively solid. The defensive positioning of the players, forward runs, and risk taking have to be measured and considered. No gung-ho attacking tactics that overwhelm the ME, or that are inherently imbalanced. For example, you won't see 2 attack duties on the same flank. An attacking wingback will be offset by a defensive midfielder, and so on. 

2. Realism: I strive to make tactics that are realistic, meaning that it could work in real life. Again, not something that is designed to exploit the match engine, but rather a realistic, balanced tactic that incorporates real-life footballing concepts

3. Variety in possession: To me, variety in build-up and attacking play is critical. I want at least 3 different, distinct routes to goal: Across each flank, and through the center. This means setting up player roles and duties accordingly - I want a mix of patient build up and overlap, wide play, incisive central passing, and a more direct route to goal. This makes the team harder to defend against and produces a wide variety of goals.

4. Supply and demand: Loosely, I define "supply" as players on support or defend roles who are looking to drop into space and receive the ball at feet, and "demand" as the players on attacking duty who are looking to make aggressive, forward runs and demand the ball. I want each attacking player to have at least 3 sources from which they can receive the ball, and ensure that no 2 players are making attacking runs into the same space. 

4. Positional Play: In my attacking patterns, I want to take advantage of all 5 verticals areas of the pitch: The 2 wide areas, 2 channels, and central region. My tactic aims to take advantage of all these zones through varied and dynamic movement

5. Compact defense: The defense should be vertically compact, not allowing the opposition team time and space between my lines. I have therefore gone for a MID block, rather than the typical high press/Geggenpressing system that win on FM

6. Win transitions: Transition (when the ball is immediately won or lost) is a critical aspect of the game, and one that I want to maximize. Having the right tactical setup (shape/roles/duties) to effectively counter and counter press is therefore critical to how I want to play

7. Dominant in possession: I view possession as a form of defense, rather than an attacking philosophy. The more you keep the ball, the less chances the opponent has to score. Therefore, the tactic should have an emphasis on building out from the back and being measured with the ball, rather than try to force it upfield with unnecessary direct and risky passes when nothing is on

 

With these in mind, I have done a lot of tweaking and come up with a mid-block, 3-4-2-1 that captures most of my key fundamental concepts. 

1. Defensive Structure: My team is strongest in the middle zone, with 4 players vertically across the DM strata. with a CF and 2 #10s, I don't really have the shape to press high up the field, as I don't have wide attacking players. Therefore a mid-block made the most sense for me. Combined with a higher defensive line and step up more, we create a zone of vertical compression near the halfway line

2. Attacking patterns of play: I was very keen on having defined but varied attacking patterns of play that are different to one another. Play is generally channeled through the SV, AP,  or supporting wingback, after which there are several routes to goal:

- Direct through ball to the Pressing Forward

- Through ball to the overlapping attacking right 

- Through ball to the shadow striker making a late run

- Angled through ball from the supporting wingback to one of the attack duty players

The AP essentially has 3 players in front of him making forward runs at all times - combined with space to operate in (more on this below), he is positioned for success

3. Supply and Demand: Each attacking player has at least 3 support/defend duty player who can pass the ball to them

In addition, each attack duty player is looking to make a run into a different area of the pitch

This ensures a good mix between having passing options available, whilst at the same time maintaining vertical attacking depth. Too many players going in behind with no one to pass to, or everyone attempting to drop deep without anyone running in behind generally causes problems. 

4. Utilizing space and role combinations: There are a few key combinations in the tactic that I wanted to highlight:

- Creating space for the playmaker to play: The DM(D) creates space for the AP(s) to drop into, whilst at the same time covering for the attacking wingback. It creates beautiful triangles of play between the 3, with the wingback being the "third man" or "auxiliary runner". This also creates balance by ensuring that my right side is protected by the DM being a sitter. 

- The left half features a more aggressive midfielder (SV), who has more space to exploit, since the SS plays much higher up the field. To compensate for this, the WB on the left is on a support duty. The other benefit of having one wingback on support is that he can help a lot with building out from the back

- Central space: The Main CF of the team, the PF(a), has 2 players directly behind him who can slip in through balls, as well as 2 wingbacks who will cross from different positions (attacking wingback from the by-line, and supporting wingback generally from deeper). The whole team is setup to feed him, and the players who are setup to feed him will also see a lot of the ball. Your CF is going to bang in the goals. 

5. Positioning Play: This setup allows you to occupy all 5 horizontal blocks: The wingbacks occupy the wide positions, the 2 #10s occupy the channels, and the CF takes up the central space. I have found that the 2 AMs are much more effective for me than traditional wide players, such as the IF/IW. 

As you can see, there are very different attacking patterns through the left, center, and right. In addition, all attack duty/attack minded players are compensated by support/defend duty players to maintain overall balance, prevent the opposition from exploiting you on the counter, and create a good mix between players looking to drop deep to receive the ball (supply), versus players looking to make runs in behind (demand).

A few closing thoughts

- Defensively, this tactic is extremely solid: We conceded just 11 goals in the league (and 9 goals the year before), and only 1 goal in the entire UCL knockout stages

- Offensively, the tactic is very solid and produces some beautiful football. It might not produce as many goals as an overpowered 4231 Geggenpress, but that is not the goal here. 

- A tall CF is pretty critical given the volume of crosses that will be coming in

- The CF and AP are well positioned to succeed - due to the space they have in which to operate, as well as the movement around them

- I decided to go for WCB, both on defend. They help a lot in build-up while maintaining a 3 back defensive structure which is hugely helpful in possession.

- Overall, there is a lot of variety in the tactic: A more conservative left wingback paired with a more attacking shadow striker on the left, and a more attacking left wingback paired with an AP on support on the right. This is balanced out with the DM roles, both to protect the wingbacks and in conjunction to the 2 AM roles ahead of them

- The download tactic has set pieces fully loaded, on corners especially it is quite good both offensively and defensively

 

That's it! Hope you enjoyed the read, and looking forward to others trying it out and sharing your feedback. 

 

 

3421 Calcio.fmf

Edited April 12, 2023 by kr10
Changes

[spen86]

Hey mate, I've created an account on here just so I can let you know this tactic is great. Been testing with my Southport team in the championship and its very solid and plays some great football! Love that it's a realistic tactic and not something overpowered to exploit the ME. 

[coach vahid]

Your 442 was great. I played on fm19 a lot with it.

Behind theory, find this logical, simple and coherent.

[kr10]

2 hours ago, spen86 said:

Hey mate, I've created an account on here just so I can let you know this tactic is great. Been testing with my Southport team in the championship and its very solid and plays some great football! Love that it's a realistic tactic and not something overpowered to exploit the ME. 

Appreciate it man! Thank you for testing it out. Let me know if you have any issues/observations/suggestions for improvement 

[kr10]

1 hour ago, coach vahid said:

Your 442 was great. I played on fm19 a lot with it.

Behind theory, find this logical, simple and coherent.

Love that you used the 442 as well. I really enjoyed that tactic but felt it was time for a change. If you notice, the right hand side of this tactic plays very similar to the 442 - with the wide playmaker, CM(d), and attacking full back forming a nice triangle with overlap 

[olegmelnikov]

Hey! Happy to see your new tactic! Your 442 was great - logical and simple. I created something close in FM 23, but I use 2 DM. 

Just wanted to ask what do you think about wide playmaker in FM23? Are you happy with his statistics? Assists, key passes?

I was not happy with WP role and decided to change it for IWs, but my player has trait "tries killer balls". 

 

[kr10]

1 hour ago, olegmelnikov said:

Hey! Happy to see your new tactic! Your 442 was great - logical and simple. I created something close in FM 23, but I use 2 DM. 

Just wanted to ask what do you think about wide playmaker in FM23? Are you happy with his statistics? Assists, key passes?

I was not happy with WP role and decided to change it for IWs, but my player has trait "tries killer balls". 

 

I haven’t tried the WP or the 442 in FM 23. I love the role overall though. Even in FM 22 I had issues and found that a IW (s) seemed to work better.

Don’t worry about that PPM, an inverted winger can also be considered as a creative wide player, even though he doesn’t have the playmaker tag. 
 

In the 3421 I posted above, the AP in the right half space operates in many ways like a wide playmaker in the 442, combining with the attacking wingback and attack duty striker. You should give it a go!

[calimero80]

do you use any OI?

[SLB1904.]

Hey! Good looking tactic

 

I’m a FM touch user, do you mind posting the individual player instructions?

[kr10]

1 hour ago, calimero80 said:

do you use any OI?

No OI

[kr10]

1 hour ago, SLB1904. said:

Hey! Good looking tactic

 

I’m a FM touch user, do you mind posting the individual player instructions?

Thanks! I don’t use individual player instructions 

[kr10]

After the man city - Bayern game, I got inspired by Pep to make a tactic like what he has done - a 433 formation (defensive phase), that morphs into a 3241 in possession. 
 

I shall post it soon! 

[MrGreen555]

5 hours ago, kr10 said:

After the man city - Bayern game, I got inspired by Pep to make a tactic like what he has done - a 433 formation (defensive phase), that morphs into a 3241 in possession. 
 

I shall post it soon! 

Would love to see it!

 

[The3points]

6 hours ago, kr10 said:

After the man city - Bayern game, I got inspired by Pep to make a tactic like what he has done - a 433 formation (defensive phase), that morphs into a 3241 in possession. 
 

I shall post it soon! 

I know that this says ArtetaBall, but this is my back up tactic that I tried to mold after Man City (it's my 2nd tactic behind the Arteta one). Further implemented with the use of 3 CBs (Romagnoli, Diakhaby and Adarabioyo) and a wrong footed fullback (right footed Azpilicueta on the left). Despite this it doesn't work well as a Pep replica: as the back 3 isn't really obvious or that clear.

I'd like to see how you do it as a back 4, although I think I know how to do it in a back 3.

 

Potentially this role combination with telling the DM to mark the oppo wingers could succeed

[kr10]

On 15/04/2023 at 01:16, The3points said:

I know that this says ArtetaBall, but this is my back up tactic that I tried to mold after Man City (it's my 2nd tactic behind the Arteta one). Further implemented with the use of 3 CBs (Romagnoli, Diakhaby and Adarabioyo) and a wrong footed fullback (right footed Azpilicueta on the left). Despite this it doesn't work well as a Pep replica: as the back 3 isn't really obvious or that clear.

I'd like to see how you do it as a back 4, although I think I know how to do it in a back 3.

 

Potentially this role combination with telling the DM to mark the oppo wingers could succeed

I think the back 4 (and the 433 shape) is critical, otherwise we can’t really call it a Pep inspired 433/3241. 
 

Overall there are 2 ways to implement this in FM in my experience, sadly the second way isn’t possible in current ME

 

1. (What I’m using now): 2 CD, one FB (defend), on IWB (defend). Full back set to sit narrower, CB on other side set to sit wider. It’s not a perfect 3-2, it’s a bit asymmetrical, but it’s the closest we can get. I’ve found the defend duty IWB and defend duty full back is key otherwise it becomes more of a 2-4 rather than a 3-2. 
 

2. Pep recently formed the double pivot by asking the CB to step into the double pivot. This is absolutely not possible in FM as we would need a)CB “Libero” type role which acts as a DM in possession and b)”Narrow fullback” role that acts as a WCB in possession 

I finished half a season with my tactic, I need to do some more tweaking, I’m not fully happy with the link up on the right half of my tactic. Results have been very good so far, in fact even better than the 3421, but there’s some improvement to be done. 
 

I’ll post after one more full season, once I feel like I’ve found the optimal roles. 
 

What’s fantastic is that with 5 players on defend duty, we rarely get caught on counter attacks, there aren’t aggressive wingbacks pushing him up the pitch. But the front 6 are all on fairly aggressive roles, so it is still potent from an attacking perspective. 
 

Really nice and balanced approach. I will try and post it within a week or so. 

[jc577]

On 16/04/2023 at 05:27, kr10 said:

I’ve found the defend duty IWB and defend duty full back is key otherwise it becomes more of a 2-4 rather than a 3-2. 

I've noticed this too! Funnily enough I've just switched from a 433 to a straight 3421 (would love to use WM's but feel like it's too vulnerable defensively), but the IWB-S got way too high up and also didn't invert as much as on defend. 

Excited to see your approach!

[kr10]

5 hours ago, jc577 said:

I've noticed this too! Funnily enough I've just switched from a 433 to a straight 3421 (would love to use WM's but feel like it's too vulnerable defensively), but the IWB-S got way too high up and also didn't invert as much as on defend. 

Excited to see your approach!

I got the 3-2 to work (from the passing maps), but it’s very asymmetrical. The average position of the IWB (defend) is almost the same as the FB (defend). But, at least we are achieving the objective of having 5 dedicated people behind the ball, and attacking with 5, without risking overlapping full backs. 
 

I suppose I could move the DM to the DMCL slot and then making my right inverted wingback tuck in. That would perhaps work for a more central double pivot. But I HATE asymmetrical tactics, it just doesn’t sit well with me lol. But it’s a possibility, I really need my IWB to play narrower. 

I’m also in the rabbit hole of trying to figure out my roles and duties for the attacking players. The CF has to be on attack duty as we are trying to recreate Haaland’s role. Trying out various combinations behind him. I’m liking the AP(s) Mezzala (a) on the right to recreate the Bernardo/KDB combo, where KDB makes underlapping runs into the channels and crosses/shoots. 
 

However so far, the 3421 (posted above), seems to be more solid defensively. I’ll do some more tweaking and come back soon. 
 

The FM rabbit hole. 

 

[jc577]

18 hours ago, kr10 said:

That would perhaps work for a more central double pivot. But I HATE asymmetrical tactics, it just doesn’t sit well with me lol. But it’s a possibility, I really need my IWB to play narrower. 

I'm 90% sure this would work... weirdly, in FM22 I found that the inversion were much more aggressive and centralised. Now you kinda need to engineer that yourself but I'm the same as you, asymmetric tactics just feel so... bleh 

Even when using an IWB-D I still felt were got exposed in transition too much... feel like you need a really smart player there, and a quick CB capable of defending the channels (think Gabriel covering for Zinchenko). 

Also, the press is super important but sadly we don't have much control over that. How I wish we could easily achieve getting our FB to press the opposition FB when during build up lol

[Samuel77]

Nice to see one of your tactics again. I really liked your 4-4-2, simple and logical as someone said. 
Thank you 

[kr10]

18 hours ago, jc577 said:

I'm 90% sure this would work... weirdly, in FM22 I found that the inversion were much more aggressive and centralised. Now you kinda need to engineer that yourself but I'm the same as you, asymmetric tactics just feel so... bleh 

Even when using an IWB-D I still felt were got exposed in transition too much... feel like you need a really smart player there, and a quick CB capable of defending the channels (think Gabriel covering for Zinchenko). 

Also, the press is super important but sadly we don't have much control over that. How I wish we could easily achieve getting our FB to press the opposition FB when during build up lol

I’ve decided not to go for the asymmetrical option, I feel it would leave the team too exposed just for the sake of getting a certain shape in build up

 

that being said, I’ve done a lot of tweaking and experimentation on the roles and duties and I think I’ve FINALLY found something I’m happy with, that is performing well. 
 

I’m currently in December and things are going great, I’ll post the tactic once the season is over. Liking it a lot so far. 

[SLB1904.]

Congrats @kr10, really good one!

Finished 3rd in the first season with Mallorca (predicted to finish last I believe), no signings (only loans), which is absolutely ridiculous!

Was doing great until April, with lots of 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, with incredible defensive performances, when things started to get shaky. I remember losing 4 or 5 straight, and those games were not even close, but managed to secure 3rd place and get champions league football!

The wingbacks work really well. I mirrored your tactic because Augustinssen (left WB) is the strongest offensive WB in the team. 

 

As I said, defensively your tactic is really interesting. However, in the attack, few opportunities are created and most of the goals I scored were set pieces (Muriqi is a beast) or defensive blunders. Some observations from my game analysis (I watch all games on extended highlights):

1. As I said previously, the wingbacks work really well and, together with the WCB, the best rated in the team

2. The attacking flow and fast passing progression simply stops when the ball reaches the AP. I used Kang-In Lee there due to his vision, passing and flare, but usually he just lost possession because of opponents pressure or made a nonsense trough ball to the forward.

3. I felt that the PF was lost on the pitch, especially if the play is made through the middle

4. Most of the goals conceded were late long shots. Found it weird because this setup is using a DM on defensive duties. Tried to tweak the volante to a Dm as well but felt that changed little. 
 

I’m very curious to try this on a stronger team. Thinking of Benfica, who have a mental midfield full of great wonderkids.

You may find the results attached (Finishing the 2nd season with a new tactic). Working better but I also made a couple of good signings.

 

 

[kr10]

17 hours ago, SLB1904. said:

Congrats @kr10, really good one!

Finished 3rd in the first season with Mallorca (predicted to finish last I believe), no signings (only loans), which is absolutely ridiculous!

Was doing great until April, with lots of 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, with incredible defensive performances, when things started to get shaky. I remember losing 4 or 5 straight, and those games were not even close, but managed to secure 3rd place and get champions league football!

The wingbacks work really well. I mirrored your tactic because Augustinssen (left WB) is the strongest offensive WB in the team. 

 

As I said, defensively your tactic is really interesting. However, in the attack, few opportunities are created and most of the goals I scored were set pieces (Muriqi is a beast) or defensive blunders. Some observations from my game analysis (I watch all games on extended highlights):

1. As I said previously, the wingbacks work really well and, together with the WCB, the best rated in the team

2. The attacking flow and fast passing progression simply stops when the ball reaches the AP. I used Kang-In Lee there due to his vision, passing and flare, but usually he just lost possession because of opponents pressure or made a nonsense trough ball to the forward.

3. I felt that the PF was lost on the pitch, especially if the play is made through the middle

4. Most of the goals conceded were late long shots. Found it weird because this setup is using a DM on defensive duties. Tried to tweak the volante to a Dm as well but felt that changed little. 
 

I’m very curious to try this on a stronger team. Thinking of Benfica, who have a mental midfield full of great wonderkids.

You may find the results attached (Finishing the 2nd season with a new tactic). Working better but I also made a couple of good signings.

 

 

Firstly, thanks for using the tactic and sharing your feedback, definitely third place with Mallorca is a great result. 
 

Playmaker issues: In theory, the AP should have 3 aggressive, off the ball runners making runs ahead of him: SS, PF, WB (a). Maybe there are some PPMs that are affecting this? Could you also share a screenshot of your AP?

In terms of CF, Sesko was absolutely brilliant for me - he was quick with 18 JR and 16 heading. Do you have a striker in this mould (tall, good in the air)? I’ve found that’s critical given that crossing is a key part of this tactic.

 

A huge amount of goals also came from the AP dropping deep, turning, and playing a through ball for the PF. My AP ended the season with something like 20 assists. 

Often I’ve realized that the best way to improve the tactic is not just endless tweaking (that’s a rabbit hole I often find myself in), but rather getting the right fit of players for the role/tactic overall. Especially on the CF

Anyway, thanks for trying and sharing your feedback. 

[SLB1904.]

Hey! Used Kang-In Lee as the AP and Muriqi is the PF

I’ll use this tactic with Benfica this weekend. Thinking about signing Beto from Udinese (good JR and Heading, very tall and he is fast as well, so a pretty complete player). Curious to see if my findings with Mallorca still apply with Benfica 

 

 

[Glassy]

Looks like a really interesting tactic, I'm going to give it a go with Everton. These are the results so far:

The Newcastle loss was down to me doing a full squad rotation. Other than that it's done pretty well, other than the shock 4-0 loss to Manu. I've been surprised by how well Maupay has played as the PF, he's scoring for fun. 7 goals conceded in the league so far, and I have a decent defence, which is a little disappointing. I'll update you later on as I'm going to have a bit of a sesh here. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Glassy

[kr10]

4 hours ago, SLB1904. said:

Hey! Used Kang-In Lee as the AP and Muriqi is the PF

I’ll use this tactic with Benfica this weekend. Thinking about signing Beto from Udinese (good JR and Heading, very tall and he is fast as well, so a pretty complete player). Curious to see if my findings with Mallorca still apply with Benfica 

 

 

I would say your AP overall has quite poor mental stats, especially in composure, decisions, and teamwork. To me, he seems like more of an inverted winger rather than someone who orchestrates for your team. 
 

Your striker is just too slow man. As an attack duty striker pushing the back line, you definitely need some pace. 
 

Beto is a good shout. You could also try grabbing Hojlund on loan, which is what I did in my Milan save

[kr10]

3 hours ago, Glassy said:

Looks like a really interesting tactic, I'm going to give it a go with Everton. These are the results so far:

The Newcastle loss was down to me doing a full squad rotation. Other than that it's done pretty well, other than the shock 4-0 loss to Manu. I've been surprised by how well Maupay has played as the PF, he's scoring for fun. 7 goals conceded in the league so far, and I have a decent defence, which is a little disappointing. I'll update you later on as I'm going to have a bit of a sesh here. 

Glad to hear you’re trying it out. Give it some time to gel, I’ve done quite a lot of testing and for me it was balanced in both phases of the game 

[kr10]

Just an update - I’ve gotten a bit jaded from FM for now, so I’m going to be taking a break. I tried the 433 and 442 as well, but for me I found that the 3421 posted above gave me the best and most consistent results, especially in the champions league. Hope you guys enjoy it 

Edited April 22, 2023 by kr10

[Langhy101]

Hey, not a regular poster here but just wanted to share my experience with this great tactic. I always struggle to create my own tactics so upon browsing this forum I stumbled across this and I am so glad I did. Finally enjoying a save game on FM23  

The overall balance and great build up play is a joy to watch and I'm very much enjoying all phases of play using this. Here are my results for my first season with Southampton. 

Transfers for the season are highlighted.

 

Thank you kr10 and keep up the great work! On to season 2  

[kr10]

2 hours ago, Langhy101 said:

Hey, not a regular poster here but just wanted to share my experience with this great tactic. I always struggle to create my own tactics so upon browsing this forum I stumbled across this and I am so glad I did. Finally enjoying a save game on FM23  

The overall balance and great build up play is a joy to watch and I'm very much enjoying all phases of play using this. Here are my results for my first season with Southampton. 

Transfers for the season are highlighted.

 

Thank you kr10 and keep up the great work! On to season 2  

Wow, incredible! Top 4 with Southampton is a fantastic achievement. Really well done. 
 

Happy to hear that you’re enjoying it! Looks like it also also works well for a “mid table” level squad 

[nickdookie]

Been using this tactic with Chelsea. Started off well but my PF doesn’t seem involved and only has one goal . Joao Felix/ Auba is my PF and Sterling/Mudryk is playing the SS Role with Havertz rotating the AP with Mount. Any idea why ? 
 

Personally love the amount of control we have over games, defensively solid too. Would swapping the role of PF to AF make him more involved ? I also tweaked the width to fairly wide and have no Counter Pressing on.  

[kr10]

12 hours ago, nickdookie said:

Been using this tactic with Chelsea. Started off well but my PF doesn’t seem involved and only has one goal . Joao Felix/ Auba is my PF and Sterling/Mudryk is playing the SS Role with Havertz rotating the AP with Mount. Any idea why ? 
 

Personally love the amount of control we have over games, defensively solid too. Would swapping the role of PF to AF make him more involved ? I also tweaked the width to fairly wide and have no Counter Pressing on.  

I would add back counter pressing, I’ve never really played with it off but in general I think it can help create some turnovers and lead to direct counter attacking moves. 
 

Regarding not scoring - at least for this tactic, I’m fairly confident that it’s more the players fit for the role rather than the tactic itself. Few things I’d check: 

 

- PPMs. definitely don’t want something like comes deep to get ball

- Attributes: You want someone tall and quick here (not only for this tactic - seems to be the meta for this year’s ME).

Someone like Lukaku. As there will be many crosses from the wingbacks, but at the time time, many through balls from the double #10. Felix to me is a shadow striker more than a true 9. I would like at someone like Beto, Sesko, or Hojlund, they are great #9s for this tactic (or brining back Lukaku from Inter)

Hojlund pre-update (when he wasn’t even that good), scored a goal a game for me with my Milan side, just because he was tall and pretty quick. To me, this is just a matter of finding the right guy for the role 

 

edit: regarding AF vs PF: my understanding is that their attacking movement/mentality is the same, the only difference is in their pressing/defensive behavior. Not 100% sure though, I never really tried an AF. I want my 9 to be the leader of the press not just a luxury goal scorer 

Edited May 2, 2023 by kr10

[nickdookie]

12 hours ago, kr10 said:

I would add back counter pressing, I’ve never really played with it off but in general I think it can help create some turnovers and lead to direct counter attacking moves. 
 

Regarding not scoring - at least for this tactic, I’m fairly confident that it’s more the players fit for the role rather than the tactic itself. Few things I’d check: 

 

- PPMs. definitely don’t want something like comes deep to get ball

- Attributes: You want someone tall and quick here (not only for this tactic - seems to be the meta for this year’s ME).

Someone like Lukaku. As there will be many crosses from the wingbacks, but at the time time, many through balls from the double #10. Felix to me is a shadow striker more than a true 9. I would like at someone like Beto, Sesko, or Hojlund, they are great #9s for this tactic (or brining back Lukaku from Inter)

Hojlund pre-update (when he wasn’t even that good), scored a goal a game for me with my Milan side, just because he was tall and pretty quick. To me, this is just a matter of finding the right guy for the role 

 

edit: regarding AF vs PF: my understanding is that their attacking movement/mentality is the same, the only difference is in their pressing/defensive behavior. Not 100% sure though, I never really tried an AF. I want my 9 to be the leader of the press not just a luxury goal scorer 

OK. Understand the logic. Did try Felix in the SS role and he did much better. Out of curiosity, when facing bigger sides or protecting slender leads, do you do anything different in game or pre match such as OI or lowering LOE or switching tempo and passing etc? 

[kr10]

On 02/05/2023 at 22:38, nickdookie said:

OK. Understand the logic. Did try Felix in the SS role and he did much better. Out of curiosity, when facing bigger sides or protecting slender leads, do you do anything different in game or pre match such as OI or lowering LOE or switching tempo and passing etc? 

You could try a combination/all of the following based on the situation  

- changed SV to DM support 

- change wingback from attack to support  (this could be a standard instruction against a dangerous LW - example Mbappe/Vini)

- add work ball into box

- lower tempo

- add time wasting 

- defensive line from slightly higher to standard 

As Chelsea I would use this more for the end of games rather than as a standard instruction, with the exception of the wingback support change  

[shaunwwfc]

Generally, across the tactic - what PPM would you avoid @kr10

Noticed you mentioned avoid come deep to get ball - thinking of adding more on the back of avoiding a player with that PPM!  

[kr10]

8 hours ago, shaunwwfc said:

Generally, across the tactic - what PPM would you avoid @kr10

Noticed you mentioned avoid come deep to get ball - thinking of adding more on the back of avoiding a player with that PPM!  

Sometimes beggars can’t be choosers (particularly when building a squad), and other times, players randomly learn PPMs in training (even if not In a mentoring group).
 

that being said, below are few ones I’d look to avoid if I could:

 

PPM to avoid: 
- wingbacks/SV: Stays back at all times 

- DM: Any getting forward/getting into box related PPM

- playmaker/SS: Plays short simple passes 

- SS/CF: Plays with back to goal, comes deep to get ball 

- Runs at defense/tries killer balls often: Depending on the player ability, you want to avoid this (bad passer, you don’t want this as an example) 

- playmaker: gets forward when possible/gets into opposition area 

 

PPMs which are good (again, should be aligned with their abilities): 

- Playmaker: Tries killers often, dictates tempo (if good teamwork and decisions) 

- Does not dive into tackles: If poor tackling stat (many regen strikers have 1-2 in tackling) 

- wingbacks: gets forward when possible, especially on attack duty 

- CB/DM: stats back at all times, plays short simply passes (if they’re not a great passer)

- SS/good dribblers with high flair: tries tricks, tries to beat opponents regularly, Runs with ball often 

 

PPMs overall aren’t hugely important, but they can make a player perform better or worse based on 1)Their role in the tactic and 2)How you want them to perform their role based on what they’re good at or less good at (hide flaws, exaggerate strengths) 

 

 

[Soylent]

Hey there,

I'm very tempted to try this tactic as all about it sounds very logical and straight forward, but I was wondering 1 thing about the striker.

Would it be at all possible to play it with a striker that's perhaps not the tallest, if you ask the crosses to be played low or perhaps whipped in?

Do you think that might work at all?

I'm just asking as 1 of my strikers and biggest talents isn't the talest, but he's fast, strong and mentally quite okay for a 20 year old. He probably would make a decent SS, but I do have a few guys that can do that role and he's not able to play there currently.

[krript]

On 24.04.2023 at 10:00, Langhy101 said:

Hey, not a regular poster here but just wanted to share my experience with this great tactic. I always struggle to create my own tactics so upon browsing this forum I stumbled across this and I am so glad I did. Finally enjoying a save game on FM23  

The overall balance and great build up play is a joy to watch and I'm very much enjoying all phases of play using this. Here are my results for my first season with Southampton. 

Transfers for the season are highlighted.

 

Thank you kr10 and keep up the great work! On to season 2  

what about the second season?

[kr10]

On 13/05/2023 at 07:44, Soylent said:

Hey there,

I'm very tempted to try this tactic as all about it sounds very logical and straight forward, but I was wondering 1 thing about the striker.

Would it be at all possible to play it with a striker that's perhaps not the tallest, if you ask the crosses to be played low or perhaps whipped in?

Do you think that might work at all?

I'm just asking as 1 of my strikers and biggest talents isn't the talest, but he's fast, strong and mentally quite okay for a 20 year old. He probably would make a decent SS, but I do have a few guys that can do that role and he's not able to play there currently.

Height is critical, no 2 ways about it. Height even at SS helps to attack crosses from deep. 
 

in general, I’ve found that JR is probably the most OP stat in this ME 

[thedrdrive]

Hey @kr10 and everyone!

Very much enjoyed reading about this tactic and trying it out. Loving the football and find it a coherent thoughtful philosophy.

Do you have any suggestion regarding the key attributes you would look for in players to really make this successful? (Aside from height and jumping reach for the CF  )

 

cheers!

[blakecarterrr]

Im also using this tactic with great success at Arsenal. My only small gripe is lack of productivity from the two DM's - I know theyre the engine of the team and most of the attacking comes from the 3 up top, however I struggle to get a 7 match rating out of them most games. Any tips on this @kr10? For context, im currently using Rice as the Volante with Ugarte as the DM, with Partey and Xhaka rotating.

[shaunwwfc]

@kr10 have really enjoyed using this tactic

At one point, you mentioned a 4-3-3/Pep tactic you was using, would you be prepared to upload this? Would really like to see a different shape with this.

[Shippy]

On 12/04/2023 at 12:25, kr10 said:

Hi guys - long time FM player here. 

Some of you might rememeber the tactic I created for FM 21 and 22: 4-4-2, Control and Attack Space: 

 

 

I decided to make another tactic this year, with the similar principles of play.

Overall Philosophy

1. Balance: I am a defense first manager. My tactics have to be balanced and defensively solid. The defensive positioning of the players, forward runs, and risk taking have to be measured and considered. No gung-ho attacking tactics that overwhelm the ME, or that are inherently imbalanced. For example, you won't see 2 attack duties on the same flank. An attacking wingback will be offset by a defensive midfielder, and so on. 

2. Realism: I strive to make tactics that are realistic, meaning that it could work in real life. Again, not something that is designed to exploit the match engine, but rather a realistic, balanced tactic that incorporates real-life footballing concepts

3. Variety in possession: To me, variety in build-up and attacking play is critical. I want at least 3 different, distinct routes to goal: Across each flank, and through the center. This means setting up player roles and duties accordingly - I want a mix of patient build up and overlap, wide play, incisive central passing, and a more direct route to goal. This makes the team harder to defend against and produces a wide variety of goals.

4. Supply and demand: Loosely, I define "supply" as players on support or defend roles who are looking to drop into space and receive the ball at feet, and "demand" as the players on attacking duty who are looking to make aggressive, forward runs and demand the ball. I want each attacking player to have at least 3 sources from which they can receive the ball, and ensure that no 2 players are making attacking runs into the same space. 

4. Positional Play: In my attacking patterns, I want to take advantage of all 5 verticals areas of the pitch: The 2 wide areas, 2 channels, and central region. My tactic aims to take advantage of all these zones through varied and dynamic movement

5. Compact defense: The defense should be vertically compact, not allowing the opposition team time and space between my lines. I have therefore gone for a MID block, rather than the typical high press/Geggenpressing system that win on FM

6. Win transitions: Transition (when the ball is immediately won or lost) is a critical aspect of the game, and one that I want to maximize. Having the right tactical setup (shape/roles/duties) to effectively counter and counter press is therefore critical to how I want to play

7. Dominant in possession: I view possession as a form of defense, rather than an attacking philosophy. The more you keep the ball, the less chances the opponent has to score. Therefore, the tactic should have an emphasis on building out from the back and being measured with the ball, rather than try to force it upfield with unnecessary direct and risky passes when nothing is on

 

With these in mind, I have done a lot of tweaking and come up with a mid-block, 3-4-2-1 that captures most of my key fundamental concepts. 

1. Defensive Structure: My team is strongest in the middle zone, with 4 players vertically across the DM strata. with a CF and 2 #10s, I don't really have the shape to press high up the field, as I don't have wide attacking players. Therefore a mid-block made the most sense for me. Combined with a higher defensive line and step up more, we create a zone of vertical compression near the halfway line

2. Attacking patterns of play: I was very keen on having defined but varied attacking patterns of play that are different to one another. Play is generally channeled through the SV, AP,  or supporting wingback, after which there are several routes to goal:

- Direct through ball to the Pressing Forward

- Through ball to the overlapping attacking right 

- Through ball to the shadow striker making a late run

- Angled through ball from the supporting wingback to one of the attack duty players

The AP essentially has 3 players in front of him making forward runs at all times - combined with space to operate in (more on this below), he is positioned for success

3. Supply and Demand: Each attacking player has at least 3 support/defend duty player who can pass the ball to them

In addition, each attack duty player is looking to make a run into a different area of the pitch

This ensures a good mix between having passing options available, whilst at the same time maintaining vertical attacking depth. Too many players going in behind with no one to pass to, or everyone attempting to drop deep without anyone running in behind generally causes problems. 

4. Utilizing space and role combinations: There are a few key combinations in the tactic that I wanted to highlight:

- Creating space for the playmaker to play: The DM(D) creates space for the AP(s) to drop into, whilst at the same time covering for the attacking wingback. It creates beautiful triangles of play between the 3, with the wingback being the "third man" or "auxiliary runner". This also creates balance by ensuring that my right side is protected by the DM being a sitter. 

- The left half features a more aggressive midfielder (SV), who has more space to exploit, since the SS plays much higher up the field. To compensate for this, the WB on the left is on a support duty. The other benefit of having one wingback on support is that he can help a lot with building out from the back

- Central space: The Main CF of the team, the PF(a), has 2 players directly behind him who can slip in through balls, as well as 2 wingbacks who will cross from different positions (attacking wingback from the by-line, and supporting wingback generally from deeper). The whole team is setup to feed him, and the players who are setup to feed him will also see a lot of the ball. Your CF is going to bang in the goals. 

5. Positioning Play: This setup allows you to occupy all 5 horizontal blocks: The wingbacks occupy the wide positions, the 2 #10s occupy the channels, and the CF takes up the central space. I have found that the 2 AMs are much more effective for me than traditional wide players, such as the IF/IW. 

As you can see, there are very different attacking patterns through the left, center, and right. In addition, all attack duty/attack minded players are compensated by support/defend duty players to maintain overall balance, prevent the opposition from exploiting you on the counter, and create a good mix between players looking to drop deep to receive the ball (supply), versus players looking to make runs in behind (demand).

A few closing thoughts

- Defensively, this tactic is extremely solid: We conceded just 11 goals in the league (and 9 goals the year before), and only 1 goal in the entire UCL knockout stages

- Offensively, the tactic is very solid and produces some beautiful football. It might not produce as many goals as an overpowered 4231 Geggenpress, but that is not the goal here. 

- A tall CF is pretty critical given the volume of crosses that will be coming in

- The CF and AP are well positioned to succeed - due to the space they have in which to operate, as well as the movement around them

- I decided to go for WCB, both on defend. They help a lot in build-up while maintaining a 3 back defensive structure which is hugely helpful in possession.

- Overall, there is a lot of variety in the tactic: A more conservative left wingback paired with a more attacking shadow striker on the left, and a more attacking left wingback paired with an AP on support on the right. This is balanced out with the DM roles, both to protect the wingbacks and in conjunction to the 2 AM roles ahead of them

- The download tactic has set pieces fully loaded, on corners especially it is quite good both offensively and defensively

 

That's it! Hope you enjoyed the read, and looking forward to others trying it out and sharing your feedback. 

 

 

3421 Calcio.fmf 43.84 kB · 1,522 downloads

Have to say this is a beautiful tactic. I’ve never been able to get a 3 at the back formation to work well but this is amazing.

Some of the link up play is brilliant to watch.

recently started a new save with Man Utd and Weghorst has 15 goals in 12 games! 😂

[jwccfc1987]

Having tried 3-4-2-1 quite a bit in FM23 and really struggled to get defensive solidity, this one really does the business. It did take about 3-4 months to properly click, but the quality of football at both ends of the pitch is excellent. Followed your advice on the height needed at CF, so Evan Ferguson and Youssef Chermiti have both done very well there and score a wide variety of goals. Defensively the opposition has to work a lot harder to break through and when we do concede it's normally from individual mistakes rather than something systemic.

Tactics like these are the most enjoyable every year, good work.

Edited August 24, 2023 by jwccfc1987

[Volkditty]

I've been having some success with this tactic as far down as the NCEL Premier Divison at level 9 of the English pyramid. I can definitely see the importance of player attributes and how this isn't a plug-n-play tactic. We're performing very well defensively, with most opponents failing to get more than 1 or 2 shots on target, but goals on the other end are harder to come by...my advanced playmaker doesn't make many plays and the CF has the height but not the pace. A lot of draws, 1-0, and 2-1 victories, but it's still enough for 1st place and I feel like we can have better success as we move up the leagues and find more technical players. Really enjoying this one!

[BadAss88]

On 13/04/2023 at 14:24, kr10 said:

Thanks! I don’t use individual player instructions 

 

Yet, you use the following player instructions:

SS: shoot less often
VOL: shoot less often
both WB's: cross more often
 

@SLB1904.

 

EDIT: Great tactic though! Really loving the style!

Edited September 28, 2023 by BadAss88

[Rich162]

@kr10 just seen your tactic which comes at a perfect time as I am looking to manage Torino in FM24. Their squad is built for this formation but is a bit light on SVs.  However they have two very good DLP type players in ilic and Ricci. Did you experiment with a DLP (s) instead of a Sv maybe turning the AP into a AM (s) with added hold position and take more risks? Do you think it would work?  

Edited September 30, 2023 by Rich162

[bestie05]

Glad I came across this tactic, i love the way it plays and the possession. One thing I would like to know though is what you do when you're in need of a goal, what changes do you suggest making?

[prodjgalaxyp]

I've been a fan of 3-4-2-1 since it provide box structure in posssesion like City's.

also, I like your philosophy as well and want to replicate it but the only problem is I choose to manage Tottenham and the CF (yes, he is not transfer yet) is Kane w/ PPM come deep to get ball.

 

so,my question is how should i create a 3-4-2-1 that have a CF w/ come deep PPM (actually Kulu got it too).

[shaunwwfc]

@kr10

Had alot of joy using this tactic in FM23. All in all, my most consistent and enjoyable period.

Any thoughts on this tactic working in FM24 or what tweaks could be made to make it work?

[One hell of a keeper]

Woah what can i say really enjoying this tactic so far, what I love about it is that it feels good and feels tight at the back.

My players are not my desired ones, yet still we are playing some nice stuff and such and improvement over my previous results and general playstyle. Brought in an advanced playmaker as required who has helped alot. A tall striker was tricky at the time as i had alot of similar player around the same height range 179-186. Finally found a guy who might be able to do a job little norweigan guy whos started promisingly after being on loan. Clearly struggled against teams that are predicted to be in the say top ten. This is due to my team being nowhere ready for where I want to be. Pompeys predictions are to be not involved with a relegation catfight - which isnt going to happen if things continue how they are. 

Previously I played with wide wingers who cut in so those are being shipped out to focus on the new positions and roles. Players are now being trainined in the new roles too. As the team has begun to be more familiar then the results have improved. Theres something going on here which i really like. Before I'd go into big games thinking (how high is this one going to be) however not now. We have even had some cracking results against the bigger teams. 

Plenty to build on and the squad probably wont be ready for another two seasons then hopefully go time to the promised land. Setup and affiliation with City as to help with the financial side of things for loaned players. Free transfers from prem teams academies have helped no end. 

Finding replacement players and players who can grow into the roles are my main focus now. Wingbacks are pretty key in the formation but not the be all end all as the output has been shared quite fairly. Top six for clean sheets which has been very nice. And again as the quality of players increase hopefully this number will also climb. Conceeded goals top eight, which for a club that is expected for a relegation fight has been impressive to say the least. 

Using Jayden Danns a bit in the Second Striker role behind and has been playing very well as he doesnt suit the pressing striker and is top of the conversion table. Happy days!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Leander work in progress as i didnt really have a target forward as per formation. Hes not going to be world class but will help towards getting players into that mold.