Activation of Football Manager 2009

[GillsMan]

They will have to activate at midnight between the 13th and 14th Nov, as if they don't do it till say 10am for example then customers will have the right to say they were sold a product on day of release and not able to use it the moment they had purchased without being given prior warning. The stores that sold the game on day will have to offer refunds for this and then have "legal practice" against the suppliers.

If you have a 24 hour store open that sells the game at 2am in the morning on the 14th November, no one is breaking any rules, but if they can't play this game due to an activation code not being available, then they do have grounds to say they have been sold the item "under false care of promise".

Now whilst its unlikely for any customer is to sue for this, i'm sure some idiot will try though, the bad press and PR could be very damaging. No matter how some will say it won't, I think your find once the press gets its teeth in and makes a big deal, it will damage. How many times have been seen a company say no problems, only to fall flat on its face?

I hope that Friday's forum isn't full of can't play due to the code not working threads, because the truth is the people that have bought the game on friday wanting to play it do deserve to be treated with respect. My big worry is some technical hitch that is out of SI's control happens and you then have thousands of very non understanding fans disgruntled! Please Sega and SI, I understand your reasonings and not wanting to be ripped off by pirates, but don't get this wrong for the fans on the 14th November! We are all very loyal, well most are

As to your first point, it just wouldn't fly. Wouldn't fly at all. Think Sega are the first company to do this? Think Microsoft would still be doing if it was illegal and they had to keep paying out in court?

No. If you couldn't play the game until you activated it - what legislation would you sue under? In fact, I'll make it easier for you (because you couldn't sue under the grounds you suggested ) - what consumer legislation could, potentially, have been breached?

Sheesh. Perspective people, perspective.

As to your second point - I agree, I hope there are no activation problems too! I'm not buying the game til the new year, but I agree that it would be a disaster if the activation process was flawed.

[Alexandre]

Same question from other thread: If I got my copy before release day I could play it on Macintosh since there is no activation for Mac, couldn't I?

I know, it's unplayable without the patch. SI is smart, they made it so buggy assuming stores would sell FM before November 14th.

[Major Raver]

Gillsman, if someone is sold an item that they cannot use on the date that the manufacture says then they have been sold the item under false conditions! That is fact mate. No point in arguing with you, feel feel to ask trading standards! The point is that the realse date is for the 14th November, so as long as people are able to use the purchase on that date no problem, but if they cant then problems! The realease date is 14th November, not 10.30 on the 14th November and I think your find you have to put down a time if that is the case! You don't pay for a meal in a restaurant when you book a table and then be told you can't eat it on the day you have bought it or for another 10 hours.

My post wasn't a attack on anyone, it was a case of anyone moaning they had to wait till the 14th, well tough as SI games have the right to do that. And I pray for SI's hard work nothing goes wrong out of their control, as they don't deserve that. So mate, shiissh, read peoples posts properly first!

[Suttface]

Same question from other thread: If I got my copy before release day I could play it on Macintosh since there is no activation for Mac, couldn't I?

I know, it's unplayable without the patch. SI is smart, they made it so buggy assuming stores would sell FM before November 14th.

What does this even mean? Is this another post suggesting SI deliberately put bugs in their game? Get a grip.

[anthonykch]

that mean even tho i purchase a box game i still need to get online and activate it ????

[GillsMan]

Gillsman, if someone is sold an item that they cannot use on the date that the manufacture says then they have been sold the item under false conditions! That is fact mate. No point in arguing with you, feel feel to ask trading standards! The point is that the realse date is for the 14th November, so as long as people are able to use the purchase on that date no problem, but if they cant then problems! The realease date is 14th November, not 10.30 on the 14th November and I think your find you have to put down a time if that is the case! You don't pay for a meal in a restaurant when you book a table and then be told you can't eat it on the day you have bought it or for another 10 hours.

My post wasn't a attack on anyone, it was a case of anyone moaning they had to wait till the 14th, well tough as SI games have the right to do that. And I pray for SI's hard work nothing goes wrong out of their control, as they don't deserve that. So mate, shiissh, read peoples posts properly first!

Mate, I deal with Trading Standards on a fairly frequent basis, and my opinion of them couldn't be lower if I tried - bunch of clueless, idiotic you-know-whats. I'd suggest that YOU are probably more knowledgeable about their legislation than they are! Anyway, I digress. The thing is, you're taking the rationale when buying ordinary objects (such as a car) and applying it to the purchase of digital products - in this case software. You never actually own the software you purchase, you just buy the right to use the software, subject to the conditions set out by the distributor/developer. I don't think you'll get very far with your law suit - but best of luck to you anyway!

Edit - oh, and I did read your post properly. Not sure why you think I didn't? :confused:

[ron.e]

What are the ways in-which you can activate the game anyway?

[Alexandre]

Same question from other thread: If I got my copy before release day I could play it on Macintosh since there is no activation for Mac, couldn't I?

I know, it's unplayable without the patch. SI is smart, they made it so buggy assuming stores would sell FM before November 14th.

What does this even mean? Is this another post suggesting SI deliberately put bugs in their game? Get a grip.

It means I will be a great game, but without a patch I couldn't play the game even if I want, so doesn't matter whether there are some stores selling it or not.

[GillsMan]

What are the ways in-which you can activate the game anyway?

Online (inc Steam) and toll-free telephone number. Is there a postal option? Not sure - there should be, but I don't think there is.

[Confused Clarity]

Which would bring me to the question as to why the game has been sent out to retailers this early with a week untill release? Fully knowing that early releases always happen. Usually games come out a day or two before actual release, not a week. There must be some sort of shipping plan in use in order that every country/store would get the game on time but not too early either. I would have expected they send it out early next week, or possibly friday this week at the earliest.

And I agree, it is good that the store is puished. But I guess we'll never agree on the fact the buyer cannot play it out of the box. But then again, I'm very much anti-DRM.

I used to work in a GAME store. Going back around 6 years now. Even then, we'd be getting stock in of a game steadily for a week before the release date when it's a major seller. Earlier too in some cases.

It's standard procedure in the industry to ensure that there is enough supply to meet demand. A major reason that some games are sold out in the first weekend and not on shelves for another week or so in some cases these days is because some companies try to limit the amount of stock to prevent the street date being broken.

[Major Raver]

Gillsman, in my first post I said "Now whilst its unlikely for any customer is to sue for this, i'm sure some idiot will try though, the bad press and PR could be very damaging." You say you did read my post properly, yet you make a very poor statement of "I don't think you'll get very far with your law suit - but best of luck to you anyway!" Where have I said I would sue, think SI games are breaking the law, or am I against what they are doing???? In fact I said "it was a case of anyone moaning they had to wait till the 14th, well tough as SI games have the right to do that. And I pray for SI's hard work nothing goes wrong out of their control, as they don't deserve that."

Shocking accusations mate, your out of order. And as for trading standards, I don't care one bit for the charactor or IQ of the people who work for them, my point was what the regulations state.

I'm afriad you have made a poor argument, and have shown you didn't understand my post at all. To twist it the way you have shows that maybe you should have a look at your own charactor before commenting on others!

[Scott McC]

I work in a shop that stocks games and we normally get them earlier on in the week before the release on a Friday. However, they are very clearly marked with their release date and any retailer who has any clue what they're doing will not sell them before that date. We have a chart plan in-store that shows what games are currently out and in our chart and what games are upcoming for the following week. If a retailer is selling them early (especially this early) then they're either completely incompetent or fully aware they are breaking the street date, presumably hoping to get more business because of it.

EDIT: Obviously the retailers are entirely at fault here. The customer might not even be aware of the November 14th release date or assumed it has been changed.

[bdgr]

Well let's see shall we.

Best intentions for us. Some people have paid for and got a game they can't yet play. Doesn't help them. Those of us who pre-order incase Play or whatever deliver a day early. Doesn't help them. People who haven't yet got the game. Can't help them can it.

Ok let's try the retailers. They sell a game, make money from it, don't care if you can play it or not. Can't see how this activation system helps them, or even if they'd notice it. Ok let's try the game.

The game itself. How does it need protecting from people playing it early? Will it get all upset because it didn't have time to get a hair cut or press its suit before it was needed? Unlikely *grin*. Perhaps it's a protection from piracy. Well nothing has ever worked in that department either. Damn this isn't holding up to much scrutiny is it.

Maybe it's the secret option D and that's Sega/SI not being inundated with bug reports and technical queries before they were expecting them.

Hmmmm. Answers on a postcard as who exactly it protects.

VB

If you buy the game (any game) before the release date and can't play it due to an activation code being needed that won't work until the release date, then i'm sorry but it's your own damn fault for buying it before its officially released!! The shop you purchase the game from in this instance is trading illegally which in turn means that you have acted illegally by purchasing said product! Excuse me if I don't have any sympathy. Wait till the release date like everybody else does and stop being such an annoying little tit!

[Confused Clarity]

Gillsman, if someone is sold an item that they cannot use on the date that the manufacture says then they have been sold the item under false conditions! That is fact mate. No point in arguing with you, feel feel to ask trading standards! The point is that the realse date is for the 14th November, so as long as people are able to use the purchase on that date no problem, but if they cant then problems! The realease date is 14th November, not 10.30 on the 14th November and I think your find you have to put down a time if that is the case! You don't pay for a meal in a restaurant when you book a table and then be told you can't eat it on the day you have bought it or for another 10 hours.

My post wasn't a attack on anyone, it was a case of anyone moaning they had to wait till the 14th, well tough as SI games have the right to do that. And I pray for SI's hard work nothing goes wrong out of their control, as they don't deserve that. So mate, shiissh, read peoples posts properly first!

Standard trading hours start at 9am. So it would be reasonable for them to turn them on in time for standard trading hours.

Pretty sure that if (and it is an if) SI turn the Activation servers on for around 7 or 8am on the 14th November, that the response most people (outside of SI Towers) will get when complaining that they couldn't play the game at 3am in the morning will be "aww, diddums"

[Schotsmannetje]

Can someone confirm or deny that FM09 on Mac doesn't have to be registered to be able to play it? It's a rumour that's spreading around on this forum and I would really like to know as I only use Macs and apparently they're already selling the game here in The Netherlands where I live.

Besides that, would it be illegal if I would be able to buy and play the game before the release date?

[GillsMan]

1) Gillsman, in my first post I said "Now whilst its unlikely for any customer is to sue for this, i'm sure some idiot will try though, the bad press and PR could be very damaging." You say you did read my post properly, yet you make a very poor statement of "I don't think you'll get very far with your law suit - but best of luck to you anyway!" Where have I said I would sue, think SI games are breaking the law, or am I against what they are doing???? In fact I said "it was a case of anyone moaning they had to wait till the 14th, well tough as SI games have the right to do that. And I pray for SI's hard work nothing goes wrong out of their control, as they don't deserve that."

2) Shocking accusations mate, your out of order. And as for trading standards, I don't care one bit for the charactor or IQ of the people who work for them, my point was what the regulations state.

3) I'm afriad you have made a poor argument, and have shown you didn't understand my post at all. To twist it the way you have shows that maybe you should have a look at your own charactor before commenting on others!

1) The "best of luck in your lawsuit" was tongue in cheek - I didn't realise you'd take it literally. Sorry about that, one of the problems with posting on a message board is that it's not so easy to translate tone. I'd hoped that the made it clear I wasn't being serious, but I should have used the safety wink:

2) You're the one that suggested I asked Trading Standards. I was just offering a little titbit on my experiences with them. I thought it was quite clear that was simply an aside and wasn't intended to devalue your argument in any way.

3) I haven't commented on anyone's character? :confused: Calm down a little bit, I've not made a personal attack on anyone. I've just offered my POV. I've respected your argument, it's a shame you couldn't do the same.

[Abs_UK]

Can someone confirm or deny that FM09 on Mac doesn't have to be registered to be able to play it? It's a rumour that's spreading around on this forum and I would really like to know as I only use Macs and apparently they're already selling the game here in The Netherlands where I live.

Besides that, would it be illegal if I would be able to buy and play the game before the release date?

Why would it be illegal for you to buy, as you are buying a original copy.. however it will be illegal for the retailer to sell it to you...

[KUBI]

Can someone confirm or deny that FM09 on Mac doesn't have to be registered to be able to play it?

It's not a rumour, it's confirmed by SI, because there is no authenticiation service like steam for the mac.

It will work as the years before: To load the game the disk must be in the dvd device.

[Confused Clarity]

Why would it be illegal for you to buy, as you are buying a original copy.. however it will be illegal for the retailer to sell it to you...

because you are party to a contract that is in breech of another contract.

[Abs_UK]

because you are party to a contract that is in breech of another contract.

ok if i went and bought the game from TheGame shop before release date, and did not know how am i breaching any laws? its the retailers who know have sold it and i bought my copy thinking its fully legal..

[Confused Clarity]

ok if i went and bought the game from TheGame shop before release date, and did not know how am i breaching any laws? its the retailers who know have sold it and i bought my copy thinking its fully legal..

Ignorance isn't a defence in a court of law, however it is very unlikely that you would be prosecuted in a situation like this as common sense would prevail.

I'll give you an example.

You buy a Car off a dodgy car salesman - It's a stolen car.

You don't know this at the time, but when it's discovered to be the case, you have the car taken away from you.

You won't be prosecuted for it at all, just be left to feel silly for not doing all the proper checks when purchasing.

[VonBlade]

It's not a rumour, it's confirmed by SI, because there is no authenticiation service like steam for the mac.

It will work as the years before: To load the game the disk must be in the dvd device.

But Mac users can still pick up the phone right? Surely they aren't that backwards? *evil grin*.

Ahhh. Maybe the whole "not enough Mac users to bother copy-protecting it" is the true issue. So we can dispense with the facade that it's about a holistic end-user program tailored to provide a synergised release date experience, and agree it's all about the Benjamins.

Which we knew anyway but still....

VB

[Cleansation515]

If it wasnt pathetic enough that SI started using this crazy DRM ******** they also wont turn on the auth servers before release ?! It can never be the customers fault that he bought it before street date, good God i havent been able to get my dirty hands on this because i would be ****ed.

What if the game gets cracked before release ? Do we still not get to auth our games then ? I will cancel my order and download that then, typical video game biz today with the pirates getting the better version and before release.

Sorry about me being so angry but i havent had anything but trouble with Biohsock, red alert 3 and spore when i tried isntalling my LEGAL copy while the pirates were playing theirs.

[Abs_UK]

Ignorance isn't a defence in a court of law, however it is very unlikely that you would be prosecuted in a situation like this as common sense would prevail.

I'll give you an example.

You buy a Car off a dodgy car salesman - It's a stolen car.

You don't know this at the time, but when it's discovered to be the case, you have the car taken away from you.

You won't be prosecuted for it at all, just be left to feel silly for not doing all the proper checks when purchasing.

Well to counter that there is always HPI checks.. and another thing is say if i was to buy the car from a big car dealer?

Anyway i agree its silly talking about that, because that aint never gona happen

[GillsMan]

What if the game gets cracked before release ? Do we still not get to auth our games then ? I will cancel my order and download that then, typical video game biz today with the pirates getting the better version and before release.

Bye bye. *waves*

And VonBlade - I love your eternal cynicism! Between your cynicism and my optimism, there has to be the perfect medium!

[VonBlade]

Lmao. Thanks. I wear my misanthrope badge with pride

A cynic is an optimist with experience.

VB

[jptykes]

ok if i went and bought the game from TheGame shop before release date, and did not know how am i breaching any laws? its the retailers who know have sold it and i bought my copy thinking its fully legal..

Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law. That's why it's no use claiming you didn't know the speed limit if you're pulled over by the police, for example.

[Schotsmannetje]

I find it a very interesting issue though.

So basically as a Mac user, if I find the game tomorrow downtown (and here in Rotterdam, Holland you have a lot of "dodgy"/alternative games shops so the chance is there) I'd be able to play it, but it wouldn't be undefiled so to speak?

[Abs_UK]

What if the game gets cracked before release ? Do we still not get to auth our games then ? I will cancel my order and download that then, typical video game biz today with the pirates getting the better version and before release.

You been here since 2007 and should know not to make a comment like this...

[GillsMan]

A cynic is an optimist with experience.

VB

Yeah, well an optimist is a cynic on prozac.

What if the game gets cracked before release ? Do we still not get to auth our games then ? I will cancel my order and download that then, typical video game biz today with the pirates getting the better version and before release.

Sorry about me being so angry but i havent had anything but trouble with Biohsock, red alert 3 and spore when i tried isntalling my LEGAL copy while the pirates were playing theirs.

Yeah, BioShock was a horrendous example of how DRM can be bad, in fairness. Absolutely massively failed legitimate buyers.

[Abs_UK]

Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law. That's why it's no use claiming you didn't know the speed limit if you're pulled over by the police, for example.

completly different story..

Anyway i have never broken any law and dont intend to

[Cleansation515]

You been here since 2007 and should know not to make a comment like this...

I know but couldnt care less if i got banned for saying the truth, it isnt that hard getting a new ip and register again, dont use my account for anything else than see threads in hidden forums anyway.

[Schotsmannetje]

Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law. That's why it's no use claiming you didn't know the speed limit if you're pulled over by the police, for example.

That's not the same in my opinion (even though I know not how the law works). Speed limit is a rule for citizens, release dates surely only apply to retailers and not to costumers? You really can't expect people to walk through a music shop, see a CD they've been waiting for, from which they expected to come out a week later, and think: "Oh hang on I can't buy that CD yet, the release date is next monday."

[VonBlade]

I know but couldnt care less if i got banned for saying the truth, it isnt that hard getting a new ip and register again, dont use my account for anything else than see threads in hidden forums anyway and writing half-baked rantings and letting SI know I'm going to be pirating this game.

Fixed it for you.

[Cleansation515]

That's not the same in my opinion (even though I know not how the law works). Speed limit is a rule for citizens, release dates surely only apply to retailers and not to costumers? You really can't expect people to walk through a music shop, see a CD they've been waiting for, from which they expected to come out a week later and think: "Oh hang on I can't buy that CD yet, the release date is next monday."

Exactly, if anything Sega should stop sending out copies to small stores before release if they are so uptight about it. Sad that you go the EA way now Sega/SI.

Fixed it for you.

Only with the new pathetic copy protection.

[GillsMan]

Exactly, if anything Sega should stop sending out copies to small stores before release if they are so uptight about it. Sad that you go the EA way now Sega/SI.

That's right, penalise small businesses. Great idea.

[Cleansation515]

That's right, penalise small businesses. Great idea.

Is it better to penalise the legal customers who bought the game ? Great idea yes. The best idea would be for them to have the auth servers turned on.

[KUBI]

I guess the problem is the European release date. In the past it was first released in the UK and one or two weeks later on the continent. When a game comes to the retailer, they sell it. It's the wholesale who should hold it back until the official release date. It's a logistik problem and you need strong departments in every country to have the control.

[Confused Clarity]

Is it better to penalise the legal customers who bought the game ? Great idea yes. The best idea would be for them to have the auth servers turned on.

and then what is the deterrent for game stores to not break release dates in the future?

[T-Bag]

Whats happened here is proof that no game should ever use any kind of BS system like this.

[GillsMan]

Is it better to penalise the legal customers who bought the game ? Great idea yes. The best idea would be for them to have the auth servers turned on.

Sorry - in what way have customers been penalised?? The game was never available to play before 14th Nov anyway.

[Confused Clarity]

Whats happened here is proof that no game should ever use any kind of BS system like this.

No, What has happened here is proof that Game Stores cannot be trusted to not break the law.

[Cleansation515]

Sorry - in what way have customers been penalised?? The game was never available to play before 14th Nov anyway.

It doesnt say anywhere on the box "Cant be played before 14th nov" does it ? If it does then fair enough but yes some game stores releases it early often and it should be their problems dealing with SI not the customers who bought it.

[KUBI]

It's a real academic discussion, if people who can buy the game now should play it or not. When you buy a CD and the official release date is in one week, will you wait or will you put it in your player and listen? There is no activation restriction on the macintosh. You can´t blame anyone who does not want to wait until christmas, when the present is already in his room...

[VonBlade]

It doesnt say anywhere on the box "Cant be played before 14th nov" does it ?

Good point. Come on guys who've got it. Does it? Anywhere on the box? Hell even in the EULA?

[Ozzy38]

Why should it?

[Schotsmannetje]

and then what is the deterrent for game stores to not break release dates in the future?

I don't know what it's like in England, but here in The Netherlands games, films and CD's are always available in stores before the official release date, so it wouldn't make a difference here anyway. And I'm not only talking about smaller shops, but also the Dutch equivalents of Harrods and HMV break release dates as if they don't exist.

I don't get the point of release dates anyway. I know from a guy that works for Media Markt (big multimedia/electronics megastore-chain in Europe) that they got Fifa 09 2,5 (!) weeks in advance. Why send games that early anyway? I know they use a small margin in case there are logistical problems but almost 3 weeks in advance is just ridiculous.

You can't send games 3 weeks before the release date and then react surprised when the next day there are illegal copies on the net and costumers already have legal copies a week before the planned release date.

[Confused Clarity]

It doesn't have to.

The contract between SI/SEGA & The Vendors will state that the game has a release date of the 14th November. The contract between SI/SEGA and the Vendors that ensures they will be provided with stock of the game will be dependent on them agreeing not to sell the game before the 14th November.

If they have broken the contractual agreement, then they are at fault. SI have no responsibility whatsoever towards people who have a copy of the game due to this situation. If people are unhappy with the situation, then it is the responsibility of the vendor to deal with the situation.

[mertle]

this got to be the most pathetic excuse yet to justify restricting legit buyers from playing a game they purchased.

Sorry it has to be said how many on here have never been bothered about little charlie down the road getting lucky of having the game early in past versions because the postman delivered it early. Because I have not been jelous yes but not to want scream my head off call foul and demand the game to be released. On shops doing early release then do what most companies do stop them selling it by not giving them the game until it official release day that way NO BODY SUFFERS.

Whats so simple I am with Cleansation515 which makes the whole situation a complete farce that those who buy the game going to get massive raw deal. What was hard about looking after a storage medium CD/DVD. I wonder how many in 6 months will lose the code as manuals are more easily lost than a CD/DVD assuming the activation code will be on this like most activation codes.

I admit to losing many manuals myself over the years as you look at them for some guidance and forget to put it back then stupidly panicking if its an EA activasion rubbish one. CD/DVD are precious anybody loses them dont deserve a game simple. Its been the basis of computing forever to look after them only ones who break or go faulty I have sympythy. I admit they can crack as the boxes holding the disks have always been rubbish but I use those folders or even the 10 disk/50 disk cases to look after them and problem solved Never broken a disk ever by doing this.

[T-Bag]

You buy a legitimate product then you expect to be able to use it. You shouldn't be under any obligation to register it or any such nonsense to help the publisher's misguided delusions that it will somehow help piracy. You buy something, it's yours to use as you see fit... end of.