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Got my copy!

royke

By royke,
in Football Manager General Discussion

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balaban

balaban

Posted
Posted
If you have got it, which i highly doubt, SI quite rightly will not make a 'solution' as release dates are there for a reason.

Nope, this happens all the time. The total war series, for instance, there is yet to be one where the release date wasn't broken by a major store.

It seems to happen with almost every major game, but it's the first time that it's not a finnish or swedish store doing it :o

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Suttface

Suttface

Posted
Posted
It's funny everyone is having a right pop at the two gentlemen (Royke and Kleb). Yet, I won't be the least bit surprised when come Thursday 13th of November when most online retailers will have delivered the game, that the same people on here will be asking the exact same questions.

Not sure everyone is having a pop. I'm just not sure why people expect to be playing the game before the 14th. SI/SEGA have been clear about this although it was inevitable that copies would appear before this. I do understand the frustration of having the game and not being able to play it, but more problems would be caused by some people being able to play the game a week early! People who have read the release posts will not expect to be able to activate their game before the 14th- I think it was the fact that 3 posts saying the same thing all appeared at the same time. This is always a quick way to rattle the cages of the forum tigers! ;)

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Abs_UK

Abs_UK

Posted
Posted
Hopefully SI gives an official statement about this asap...

Miiiiileeees? (a)

I honestly dont think they will put the system online anytime soon,

The only other thing which might effect this is if some other major stores break the release date and that might force SI to bring the activation systems online...

I dont mind waiting iam at work all of next week, wont get the time to play until Saturday...

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balaban

balaban

Posted
Posted

I think SI don't have the power to change anything. And SEGA, who do have the power, won't change it. If people were getting playable versions from stores.....but they're not. They're getting an installation that they can only play Thursday at 00:01

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MTC

MTC

Posted
Posted
Yes, I can run the editor...

If I was able to buy the game before release date, able to install it and able to run the editor but not the game; I wouldn't be wasting time complaining that I couldn't play it until release date, I'd be busy editing/correcting the database, and also pasting additional logos and player pictures into the game folders so that I don't have to do it after the release when I could be playing the game.

Just accept the fact that you can't actually start a save game until the game is actually released, and use the extra time to do what you can to make the game better once you actually can play it.

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kleb

kleb

Posted
Posted
If I was able to buy the game before release date, able to install it and able to run the editor but not the game; I wouldn't be wasting time complaining that I couldn't play it until release date, I'd be busy editing/correcting the database, and also pasting additional logos and player pictures into the game folders so that I don't have to do it after the release when I could be playing the game.

Just accept the fact that you can't actually start a save game until the game is actually released, and use the extra time to do what you can to make the game better once you actually can play it.

I'm not gonna entertain myself a week with an editor... :p

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Cullen89

Cullen89

Posted
Posted
Does this mean that everyone must have access to the internet in order to play the game? If so I hope this is outlined on the actual game case, as this would be misleading on the requirements front.

Here here mate. It's absolutely shocking that SI haven't been lucid in telling us, the loyal customers, what's the script. We're being led up the garden path here. Hell, I bet there will be people who'll buy the game and be completly oblivious to the rigmarole that SI will be putting them through. It's shocking!

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PhilP

PhilP

Posted
Posted
Does this mean that everyone must have access to the internet in order to play the game? If so I hope this is outlined on the actual game case, as this would be misleading on the requirements front.

No you can authorise it over the phone or online. You only do it once per install.

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kleb

kleb

Posted
Posted
No you can authorise it over the phone or online. You only do it once per install.

I have the game, and I can say it's only possible to authorise via Steam or another internet system. So no phone... Maybe it's a country issue (The Netherlands).

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woody2goody

woody2goody

Posted
Posted
Here here mate. It's absolutely shocking that SI haven't been lucid in telling us, the loyal customers, what's the script. We're being led up the garden path here. Hell, I bet there will be people who'll buy the game and be completly oblivious to the rigmarole that SI will be putting them through. It's shocking!

I've got to be honest and say I agree. What happened to just being able to buy a game, install it and play it? I'm lucky because I've recently just got the internet again, but if I didn't I wouldn't be very happy about these authorisation procedures. I've had to do this before and it's annoying when you've payed all that money for a product.

But having said that I suppose the companies have to do something regarding copy protection especially after the demise of EHM which SI attributed to piracy.

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Kain

Kain

Posted
Posted
Here here mate. It's absolutely shocking that SI haven't been lucid in telling us, the loyal customers, what's the script. We're being led up the garden path here. Hell, I bet there will be people who'll buy the game and be completly oblivious to the rigmarole that SI will be putting them through. It's shocking!

They've explained it clearly several times. You seem to be determined to be angry with SI, to the point where you're actively trying to find things to get worked up about.

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N^G

N^G

Posted
Posted

it is SI's responsibility to ensure the following: a) people do not get hold of the game before its release date or b) people can play the game when they get hold of it. If they fail on those counts, then they only have themselves to blame for any blacklash against the crap and restrictive DRM system that they have went for that only serves to alienate legitimate customers from their products.

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peter-evo

peter-evo

Posted
Posted
it is SI's responsibility to ensure the following: a) people do not get hold of the game before its release date or b) people can play the game when they get hold of it. If they fail on those counts, then they only have themselves to blame for any blacklash against the crap and restrictive DRM system that they have went for that only serves to alienate legitimate customers from their products.

Please explain how SI could possibly stop a shop selling the game early, are you really that stupid to think this is at all SI's fault?

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blueglobefootball123

blueglobefootball123

Posted
Posted
Please explain how SI could possibly stop a shop selling the game early, are you really that stupid to think this is at all SI's fault?

Well said :thup:

What is SI ment to do to stop this? All they can do is not release the game to the shops until hours before the release date - do you really think this would be possible nation/worldwide - NO.

People would then be moaning as the game wouldn't be avaialble due to the logistical nightmare this would cause.

This is why SI/SEGA will have released the games prior to the release date, so they can despatch and complete any necessery paperwork / payments etc.

The retail stores then have the product ready and waiting for the release date - of course some as we are seeing are releasing it early, but there is nothing SI can do about this is there (maybe a strongly worded letter but nothing more)

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peter-evo

peter-evo

Posted
Posted
Well said :thup:

What is SI ment to do to stop this? All they can do is not release the game to the shops until hours before the release date - do you really think this would be possible nation/worldwide - NO.

People would then be moaning as the game wouldn't be avaialble due to the logistical nightmare this would cause.

This is why SI/SEGA will have released the games prior to the release date, so they can despatch and complete any necessery paperwork / payments etc.

The retail stores then have the product ready and waiting for the release date - of course some as we are seeing are releasing it early, but there is nothing SI can do about this is there (maybe a strongly worded letter but nothing more)

:thup:

Selling it early is against the law and I wonder whether SI are willing to make an official complaint against these shops

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niktheblade1

niktheblade1

Posted
Posted

Maybe SI could advise retailers that they can start selling the game, so long as they advise customers that the game will not be authenticated/activated until Friday? This way people who wanted the game could have it and start playing at midnight on the 14th... alternatively, download it from Steam?

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peter-evo

peter-evo

Posted
Posted
Maybe SI could advise retailers that they can start selling the game, so long as they advise customers that the game will not be authenticated/activated until Friday? This way people who wanted the game could have it and start playing at midnight on the 14th... alternatively, download it from Steam?

What is the point in setting a release date only to tell retailers they can start selling it before hand?

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JonPaulWild

JonPaulWild

Posted
Posted
:thup:

Selling it early is against the law and I wonder whether SI are willing to make an official complaint against these shops

I doubt it.

Whilst Si/Sega may get angry from the release dates being broke they need to be on good terms with big name companies who put the games onto shelves.

Both sides need each other.

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N^G

N^G

Posted
Posted
Please explain how SI could possibly stop a shop selling the game early, are you really that stupid to think this is at all SI's fault?

And are you really so ignorant that you must resort to verbal abuse to make your point?

The DRM is entirely the fault of SI and SEGA. It is the stores fault for selling the product early, however it is up to SI and/or SEGA to enforce upon the retailers that the product should not be sold early.

It is not, however, the customers fault for purchasing the game (or receiving the game) early, and therefore it is unreasonable to leave those customers with a product that does not function. In 100% of the cases so far, it is the customer who is suffering the consequences of SI/SEGA's decisions.

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niktheblade1

niktheblade1

Posted
Posted
What is the point in setting a release date only to tell retailers they can start selling it before hand?

I suppose they would be setting a president for future releases,

Game - "It's ok, SI won't mind if we release it early, they will just bring the release date forward to meet our needs"

I take back my comments....

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peter-evo

peter-evo

Posted
Posted
And are you really so ignorant that you must resort to verbal abuse to make your point?

The DRM is entirely the fault of SI and SEGA. It is the stores fault for selling the product early, however it is up to SI and/or SEGA to enforce upon the retailers that the product should not be sold early.

It is not, however, the customers fault for purchasing the game (or receiving the game) early, and therefore it is unreasonable to leave those customers with a product that does not function. In 100% of the cases so far, it is the customer who is suffering the consequences of SI/SEGA's decisions.

No, I am not ignorant at all, I just wonder how you expect SI to stop some shop in France releasing the game early, hold a knife to their throats? DRM is in most games and this version is actually less limiting to SecuRom, what EA is commonly using...

Not all FM fans have an account on these forums, therefore would buy a game and not realise they can't use it.

The customers are suffering because some muppets in Holland decided to sell a game early, maybe they should've been informed that the game is not playable until the 14th or maybe a message could come up on the persons game saying "You will be unable to access Football Manager 2009 until the authorisation opens on the 14th of November". SI should not be forced to do this and it is the retailers responsibility to stick to the release date.

I hope this time I voiced my opinion in a not-so ignorant way ;)

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jags4ever

jags4ever

Posted
Posted

Easiest solution is to release the game "as is" without the patch asap and turn on the authentication servers as soon as they are able to do so.

IMO the lack of information since yesterday would indicate they are trying to figure out if the authentication can be done early but TBH I dont think it will be possible but live in hope :D

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N^G

N^G

Posted
Posted
No, I am not ignorant at all, I just wonder how you expect SI to stop some shop in France releasing the game early, hold a knife to their throats? DRM is in most games and this version is actually less limiting to SecuRom, what EA is commonly using...

Not all FM fans have an account on these forums, therefore would buy a game and not realise they can't use it.

The customers are suffering because some muppets in Holland decided to sell a game early, maybe they should've been informed that the game is not playable until the 14th or maybe a message could come up on the persons game saying "You will be unable to access Football Manager 2009 until the authorisation opens on the 14th of November". SI should not be forced to do this and it is the retailers responsibility to stick to the release date.

I hope this time I voiced my opinion in a not-so ignorant way ;)

In this instance I'm not really interested in what DRM EA uses (not that I am happy with their's either), as that is really a discussion for another day. The fact is that on this occassion more than one customer (albeit that one is enough to make the point) has legitimately purchased a product which they cannot use due to the limitations of the DRM placed upon the product.

It is hardly the customers fault that the shop had the game on sale early. It is not the customers fault that they purchased the game, after all that is how SI will manage to pay their staff wages until the next edition, and as you point out yourself not all customers will have access to the relevant information regarding the game's release.

SI have had issues in the past with their games going to the shelves early, therefore they should have learned from those experiences and taken appropriate action to ensure that a repeat did not happen, and if that ultimately involved holding a knife to the retailers throat in terms of radically reducing the product allocation (or better yet, allocating zero) then so be it. There are literally hundreds of places where this game can be purchased after all.

The game will undoubtedly be fully cracked and pirated by the 14th (if it isn't already) and the pirates will be playing without any of the same issues experienced by people who have managed to purchase the game by now.

So who has lost out from the current DRM policy that SI have opted for?:

1) It's not SI, as they will still get the income that they were always going to get.

2) It is not the stores as they are clearly not being held to account for selling products early, otherwise it wouldn't still be happening.

3) It isn't the pirates as they will still manage to obtain the product without purchasing it.

The only group negatively affected are the legitimate customers who bizarrely cannot play the game that they have actually purchased, as a result of an unfair and ineffectual DRM strategy.

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JohnFKenny

JohnFKenny

Posted
Posted
it is SI's responsibility to ensure the following: a) people do not get hold of the game before its release date [sNIP]

No, it's not. That's the retailers' responsibility. If the retailer fails to do so, they are breaking the law. In fact, the only responsibility SI have is to make sure the game works, and does what it says. SEGA, on the other hand, have a responsibility to get it to the retailers before the release date, so the retailer can stockpile, take pre-orders, etc.

EDIT:

3) It isn't the pirates as they will still manage to obtain the product without purchasing it.

Yes it is. If it becomes more difficult for pirates - which it has - then they lose out, because they take longer to "crack" it, meaning more people buy a legit version and there are probably less illegal versions available. There's no such thing as uncrackable security*. Even the Pentagon can vouch for that.

*Actually there is, but it only works on a one-to-one basis, and would be impossible for a computer game that's to be released to lots of users.

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TomDixon77

TomDixon77

Posted
Posted

The game will undoubtedly be fully cracked and pirated by the 14th (if it isn't already) and the pirates will be playing without any of the same issues experienced by people who have managed to purchase the game by now.

The only group negatively affected are the legitimate customers who bizarrely cannot play the game that they have actually purchased, as a result of an unfair and ineffectual DRM strategy.

Two rather large assumptions there. Are you some sort of expert on DRM/Security software and have detailed knowledge of what measures have been used for FM09? I'm willing to bet the answer is no. I really don't see what all the fuss is about, a few people who managed to get the game prior to it's OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE can't play it for a few days. Well boo-hoo, I'll just go and find the world's smallest violin for them.

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peter-evo

peter-evo

Posted
Posted
In this instance I'm not really interested in what DRM EA uses (not that I am happy with their's either), as that is really a discussion for another day. The fact is that on this occassion more than one customer (albeit that one is enough to make the point) has legitimately purchased a product which they cannot use due to the limitations of the DRM placed upon the product.

It is hardly the customers fault that the shop had the game on sale early. It is not the customers fault that they purchased the game, after all that is how SI will manage to pay their staff wages until the next edition, and as you point out yourself not all customers will have access to the relevant information regarding the game's release.

SI have had issues in the past with their games going to the shelves early, therefore they should have learned from those experiences and taken appropriate action to ensure that a repeat did not happen, and if that ultimately involved holding a knife to the retailers throat in terms of radically reducing the product allocation (or better yet, allocating zero) then so be it. There are literally hundreds of places where this game can be purchased after all.

The game will undoubtedly be fully cracked and pirated by the 14th (if it isn't already) and the pirates will be playing without any of the same issues experienced by people who have managed to purchase the game by now.

So who has lost out from the current DRM policy that SI have opted for?:

1) It's not SI, as they will still get the income that they were always going to get.

2) It is not the stores as they are clearly not being held to account for selling products early, otherwise it wouldn't still be happening.

3) It isn't the pirates as they will still manage to obtain the product without purchasing it.

The only group negatively affected are the legitimate customers who bizarrely cannot play the game that they have actually purchased, as a result of an unfair and ineffectual DRM strategy.

As I said in another thread I am not happy with the fact that DRM only punishes the paying customer, but I do not believe it is SI's fault that shops have released the game early...

I am all for software that stops piracy but, as was found with Spore, it never works, pirates still manage to get the game before us without having to suffer from DRM.

We are kind of on the same side but I stand by the fact that there is nothing that SI can do to stop it being released early

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GillsMan

GillsMan

Posted
Posted
im pretty sure it will be done within the next 24hours and si will have to bring forward the release / activition servers to the 14th

I'm willing to bet they won't. Why would they do it for the handful of people who have been "lucky" enough to find a disreputable retailer who won't stick to the release date.

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N^G

N^G

Posted
Posted
No, it's not. That's the retailers' responsibility. If the retailer fails to do so, they are breaking the law. In fact, the only responsibility SI have is to make sure the game works, and does what it says. SEGA, on the other hand, have a responsibility to get it to the retailers before the release date, so the retailer can stockpile, take pre-orders, etc.

EDIT:

Yes it is. If it becomes more difficult for pirates - which it has - then they lose out, because they take longer to "crack" it, meaning more people buy a legit version and there are probably less illegal versions available. There's no such thing as uncrackable security*. Even the Pentagon can vouch for that.

*Actually there is, but it only works on a one-to-one basis, and would be impossible for a computer game that's to be released to lots of users.

As stated previously, earlier iterations of football manager have been sold early. Clearly any discouragement towards retailers to prevent this is not effective enough and in my opinion that fall's at SI and SEGA's door to do something about when it is related to their products, especially in instances where it is the customer's experience that suffers.

I am not willing to discuss piracy on these forums as it would be incorrect to encourage it, however software piracy is alive and well and I would strongly contend with your assertion that DRM makes things more difficult for pirates to the point that it will significantly impact piracy for software that carries DRM.

Two rather large assumptions there. Are you some sort of expert on DRM/Security software and have detailed knowledge of what measures have been used for FM09? I'm willing to bet the answer is no. I really don't see what all the fuss is about, a few people who managed to get the game prior to it's OFFICIAL RELEASE DATE can't play it for a few days. Well boo-hoo, I'll just go and find the world's smallest violin for them.

You are correct in your assertion that I don't necessarily have a good understanding of what the DRM measures are in this case, however that is not relevant. What is relevant is that the legitimate customer gets hit with the consequences of a) the decision to include this kind of DRM which is preventing paying customers from activating their product before a certain date and b) the Retailers decision to sell the game early. The duration isn't really relevant, whether it be for a few hours of a few years the point stands that someone who has purchased the game rather than ripping it off cannot use the product that they have paid for.

As I said in another thread I am not happy with the fact that DRM only punishes the paying customer, but I do not believe it is SI's fault that shops have released the game early...

I am all for software that stops piracy but, as was found with Spore, it never works, pirates still manage to get the game before us without having to suffer from DRM.

We are kind of on the same side but I stand by the fact that there is nothing that SI can do to stop it being released early

I am glad that we mostly agree. I do however believe that SI and SEGA should be doing more to ensure that these early-sale situations do not occur, especially when, in my opinion, it was their decision to include the DRM that has put those paying customers in this situation. It's either that or they do something about the DRM.

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GillsMan

GillsMan

Posted
Posted
i was talking about i predict that the game will be pirated within 24 hours and therefore si willl bring forward the date to combat it

Hmmmm, it's possible, I suppose. It's certainly happened before - and I can remember a few music artists having to do the same for similar reasons. Real shame tbh.

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JonPaulWild

JonPaulWild

Posted
Posted
SI this, SI that.

I'd probably care more for your opinions if it was Sega this, Sega that. Develpers don't publish, that's the publisher's job funnily enough. >_>

From what everything Si tell us, they seem to want it to be known that they have quite alot of freedom in how the game is developed and published. So yes, Si this and Si that...

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