Let us disable VAR in FM19!

[MrPompey]

33 minutes ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Its more that now I've seen a glimpse of the new game I find it impossible to play the current one, happens to me every year.

Ahhh I understand you I think. You are fed up with being cheated  Not all games will have VAR though

I stopped FM18 after 2 seasons as the ME was driving me nuts

 

[Totalfootballfan]

27 minutes ago, herne79 said:

A slightly controversial game feature released in the build up to the next FM?  Who'd have thought.

More fuel for the hype fire .

 

In real life the overwhelming majority of people who protest against VAR say that they are against it not because they doubt its positive impact on referees decisions but they are against it because it slows down matches and because of that it’s not worth having VAR.

I can say that in real life I’ve never seen that someone who was against VAR says that VAR can’t help referees make better calls in some dubious situations but they say that VAR events just takes too much time and it’s very boring to watch them so because of it’s not worth having VAR.

I’m sure that the overwhelming majority of people that protest against the VAR introduction in FM19 is just want to have an option to skip watching its events during matches and that’s all.            

 

[Federico]

3 minuti fa, Totalfootballfan ha scritto:

 

In real life the overwhelming majority of people who protest against VAR say that they are against it not because they doubt its positive impact on referees decisions but they are against because it slows down matches.

I can say that in real life I’ve never seen that someone who was against VAR says that VAR can’t help referees make better calls in some dubious situations but they say that VAR events just takes too much time and it’s very boring to watch them so because of it’s not worth having VAR.

You clearly never watched italian football and never listened to any italian fan

[danmcconnell1]

I think VAR is a brilliant addition to FM. We all have had decisions which we think have been wrong on FM before and maybe, just maybe, some of those decisions might be overturned with VAR. Some will go for and against us, but FM has always strived to be as realistic as possible and they have succeeded yet again. I can't wait for the new edition and to see how it pans out.

[Totalfootballfan]

50 minutes ago, Federico said:

You clearly never watched italian football and never listened to any italian fan

 

 

 

Mate, If we are talking about FM(a PC game) and not about real life then the only reason why someone might be against the VAR introductions in FM19 it’s because they don’t want to watch VAR events during matches and they want to be sure that there’ll be an option to skip VAR events.

There are simply no other reasons to protest against the VAR introductions in FM19 except the one I pointed above because the code that is responsible for referees decisions might not change at all in FM19 compare FM18 and the only difference is just cosmetical means that in FM19 when watching matches sometimes you encounter match events when the referee run to watch VAR but interacting with VAR might not have any impact on the referee’s decision at all but I think in FM19 SI just made referees to make slightly less mistakes in the leagues that supports VAR compare to the leagues without VAR support... at least such move would look logical to me.    

[Candy Cadet]

16 minutes ago, danmcconnell1 said:

I think VAR is a brilliant addition to FM. We all have had decisions which we think have been wrong on FM before and maybe, just maybe, some of those decisions might be overturned with VAR.

I don't have an issue with it being added as it can't be any worse than it is in RL. It's more having to watch the referee animation each time as he runs over to the sidelines and kills 20 seconds. Sure it may not happen very often, but just being able to disable that would be good. You should be able to see the incident as a highlight anyway without the need for the ref part.

[Federico]

5 minuti fa, Totalfootballfan ha scritto:

 

 

 

Mate, If we are talking about FM(a PC game) and not about real life then the only reason why someone might be against the VAR introductions in FM19 it’s because they don’t want to watch VAR events during matches and they want to be sure that there’ll be an option to skip VAR events.

There are simply no other reasons to protest against the VAR introductions in FM19 except the one I pointed above because the code that is responsible for referees decisions might not change at all in FM19 compare FM18 and the only difference is just cosmetical means that in FM19 when watching matches sometimes you encounter match events when the referee run to watch VAR but interacting with VAR might not have any impact on the referee’s decision at all but I think in FM19 SI just made referees to make slightly less mistakes in the leagues that supports VAR compare to the leagues without VAR support... at least such move would look logical to me.    

ah sorry i thought you were talking about real life complaints

[MrPompey]

23 minutes ago, Totalfootballfan said:

 

 

 

Mate, If we are talking about FM(a PC game) and not about real life then the only reason why someone might be against the VAR introductions in FM19 it’s because they don’t want to watch VAR events during matches and they want to be sure that there’ll be an option to skip VAR events.

There are simply no other reasons to protest against the VAR introductions in FM19 except the one I pointed above because the code that is responsible for referees decisions might not change at all in FM19 compare FM18 and the only difference is just cosmetical means that in FM19 when watching matches sometimes you encounter match events when the referee run to watch VAR but interacting with VAR might not have any impact on the referee’s decision at all but I think in FM19 SI just made referees to make slightly less mistakes in the leagues that supports VAR compare to the leagues without VAR support... at least such move would look logical to me.    

Thats a very good point. If the code allows an FM closer inspection of what happened then this could be good. If its simply a delay before the same decision that would be made for FM18 then its truly cosmetic. A question for SI

[noikeee]

I'd be amazed if SI didn't think of giving us different options for treating highlights regarding VAR, for those who don't want the game being slowed down too much. This was already in the game such as the ability to get replays or not of goals, controversial calls etc. I like to play the game quickly but am not too worried about this.

Edited September 28, 2018 by noikeee

[Spurs08]

16 hours ago, bassistuk said:

I like this addition in fM19 but after a while the novelty will wear thin...

Please let us disable/enable at will ! That would keep everyone happy!

I think this would be going down the wrong road. You can't just make every feature optional at the end of the day and it is increasingly looking to be a core part of football.

[Spurs08]

16 hours ago, Stevicus said:

Not really a novelty is it? It's going to be in football like it or not and soon enough it'll just be another part of the game, like the offside rule, goal line technology etc etc 

It's not just another mad 'what if' whimsical addition like Brexit where we don't know what's going to happen so arguably shouldn't be in the game 

Exactly! Although I do like Brexit being in as well, it definitely adds some challenge to the game - I hope the work permit bug is fixed though!

[Spurs08]

16 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

It's only active in the relevant leagues where it's currently in place now and can be turned on or off via the editor.

As Stevicus has said above, it's just part of the game. 

Will you be able to change this in the in-game editor too? Would be a shame if it's pre-game only, especially if (I assume) that it again won't be available with the beta?

[Spurs08]

15 hours ago, GerdMuller said:

..that went fast from the first  "NEW FEATURES REVEALED" to..."yeah but you can turn it off via the editor" :-D Ok, if the ref runs fast it maybe can stay in after all, but understand its not really a feature i would buy the game for :-D

I saw they put on the Football Manager Twitter a different animation for it that seemed quicker and also more interesting - getting a little pop-up window with a replay of the incident too. I hope this is mostly used or can be selected all the time!

[Spurs08]

15 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Personally having seen it live I think it's great, but where possible we try to allow the user the option of choice. 

Definitely wasn't so great when I was at our game against Rochdale last season to be fair! And I also noticed the refs don't normally add on anywhere near enough time to compensate for the time this takes - in a way I hope they do in game otherwise it's very frustrating. Our match was stopped for VAR for longer than the added on time!

[Spurs08]

15 hours ago, Federico said:

Asking to disable VAR because is potentially annoying is like asking to disable own goals or disallowed goals for offside, maybe even more annoying, but part of real football as much as now VAR is.

Keep it up with it SI, and thanks for the promising nice overhaul to trainings, tactics and VAR too

Hear Hear!

[Spurs08]

15 hours ago, bassistuk said:

fair point! although i hardly ever use the editor only to add lower league clubs and custom teams

That's probably more than most people actually use it for!

[danmcconnell1]

34 minutes ago, Candy Cadet said:

I don't have an issue with it being added as it can't be any worse than it is in RL. It's more having to watch the referee animation each time as he runs over to the sidelines and kills 20 seconds. Sure it may not happen very often, but just being able to disable that would be good. You should be able to see the incident as a highlight anyway without the need for the ref part.

Would you be saying that if it was a major final and it was the difference between a last minute winner being allowed? I'd happily sit through a few seconds of a review for this. It's realistic and an important addition. SI have gone somewhere no other football game has gone and it's a brilliant feature.

[Spurs08]

13 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

Should be a skip button just like for pre match handshakes. Also an option in preferences to disable the animation (not the occurance) would be good. 

I guess maybe though too many options for everything might eventually be quite overwhelming, especially to new users? Maybe an advanced options menu could be used.

[Spurs08]

12 hours ago, russell9 said:

What about FM Touch? Is it possible to disable?

I doubt it. They've not seemed to put much effort into Touch in recent years

[Siven]

I dont mind VAR, i just hope theres an option to skip the ref running over to view it.

[Candy Cadet]

2 minutes ago, danmcconnell1 said:

Would you be saying that if it was a major final and it was the difference between a last minute winner being allowed? I'd happily sit through a few seconds of a review for this. It's realistic and an important addition. 

There is a difference between sitting through the replay of the incident and watching a ref run to the sidelines and look at an imaginary screen and then the text indicating the outcome. If the time taken for the review was a replay itself, that would be better. In RL you get to see multiple replays whilst the decision is made.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Candy Cadet
spelling

[Spurs08]

7 hours ago, Svenc said:

Let's not. I'm so looking forward for all the rage when the final is lost due to a few "dubious" VAR calls in a row -- which should have some probability of actually happening, given how many finals are contested on FM accross its playerbase.

Additionally, implementing the VAR is the biggest paradoxon ever since John Connor sent back Kyle Reese, his father-to-be, back in time to protect his mother. A computer code that has been coded to simulate the randomness at football in the first place implements an altogether new section that tries to keep that randomness in check some (even though, ineviatlby, that code "knows" when calls are wrong). You better don't think too much about it or your head may explode. 

It's kinda cool when you thnk about it like that though And those incidents will be entertaining to watch on YouTube let's plays! I love YouTube, especially as they don't have any overzealous moderation, perfect when you want a more relaxed places to watch and chat about FM.

[Spurs08]

7 hours ago, DirtyJoe said:

Agree with the opening post - just another useless widget, that needs to be switch off.

Let's add no new features! Change nothing - ever! Switch it all off! Alt-F4 the game!

[Spurs08]

7 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I guess in terms of playability this needs to be in the IN-GAME editor so that it can be turned off when tedium sets in rather than have to abandon a career save.

Or conversely if like I said earlier (might come through later though thanks to some strangely authoritarian attitudes) if people want to turn it on for all competitions, or at least those they play in, but want to start a save in the beta.

[bigmattb28]

I'm actually happy VAR is in the game. Hopefully you can turn off the animation though and just go to the actual decision.

[Spurs08]

6 hours ago, herne79 said:

Personally I think what'll be more interesting is the in game frequency of VAR occurring.  So long as the frequency is kept to real life levels it won't be any more intrusive than going to a real match (which is what SI's aim in all areas of the game is after all).  And it's only in the countries and leagues that actually use VAR now.

Whether we like VAR or not, it's part of the laws of the football and I'm actually a little disappointed that SI have given us the ability to turn it off in the editor.

Forgot you were a West Ham fan - but I remember you joked to me ages back about how tempted you were to be rude and discriminatory to fans of your rivals as a result so I guess that adds up Will be useful at the Olympic though since the fans are so reliant on replays to actually see anything

[Spurs08]

5 hours ago, Carninho said:

will the game need to create dubious decisions so that VAR can be used.

from my point of view the match engine should get things right first time anyway as its AI and not a human ref obvs. so I don't really see the point.

its not going to stop me enjoying FM19 though

 

It should be like real-life though, it's a simulation. Refs ****ing up is part of the game and often adds to the drama.

[Spurs08]

4 hours ago, iolodavanki said:

In previous FMs, the calls made by refs on disallowing goals were always correct, i e an offside was never wrongly called. Has this changed?

IRL there are ambiguous calls all the time, even with VAR. It would be nice if this was in the FM19.

That's not true, they refs do get things wrong although nowhere near often enough - hopefully it's more frequent now!

[Spurs08]

4 hours ago, russell9 said:

Why disappointed? Someone disable VAR in his own game doesn't affect you at all.

True enough, but some people really like to enforce their views. Beats me to be honest.

[danmcconnell1]

5 minutes ago, Candy Cadet said:

There is a difference between sitting through the replay of the incident and watching a ref run to the sidelines and look at an imaginary screen and then the text indicating the outcome. If the time taken for the review was a replay itself, that would be better. In RL you get to see multiple replays whilst the decision is made.

There may be an option to jump straight to the decision, or to watch a replay while the AI makes the decision, we don't know yet so don't start slating it before we've experienced it ourselves. 

[Spurs08]

4 hours ago, akm.91 said:

Stadiums still look horrendous and recycled year after year but they waste time on a pointless VAR system that is already boring to look at from the gameplay footage they released. Include a tick box option on the career start up for anyone that doesn’t wish to use it. Making people go to the editor and change the rules of each individual league is ridiculous. 

Should be easy to do in the editor, you can select every competition in the world at once. Stadiums unfortunately can't be made much more specific because of licensing issues 

[Spurs08]

4 hours ago, grade said:

That is nice option. But... I deduce that VAR will be in FMT. So... How would a player of FMT could disable the VAR?

They've yet to announce anything about FMT lol, it seems to be more and more a cash cow.

[Spurs08]

4 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

It's not like a manager in Serie A can say to the Italian FA - "You know what, I don't like VAR, turn it off".  

You wanna bet? With a couple of brown envelopes anything can happen in Italy

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

We are managers. I think. What is doing a manager during the time when a referee runs and watches ?  Is he looking at this referee ? Of course not. That time is used to talk with his assistant and his players, to make some suggestions based on the refferee's possible decision. Could be a corner ? Use "this" scheme. Could be a penalty  ?  Use shouts to encourage or to increase  goalkeeper's concentration.  I hope all this time can be filled with some useful decisions.

Why not? Just go to your tactics screen

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, grade said:

But understand, we are talking about a computer/Tablet/smartphone game. Sure realism is essencial. But the point I question (I don't like using people like me, because I'm not sure if others agree with me), what level of fun adds to game? Aside of making the matches last longer. From the video It adds 25 seconds to the match key highlights (if they are part of the key highlights and at this match speed) and this is the case if the VAR is used once. There are matches in real life they use it 3 or more times. We have to endure always 25 seconds for this animation every time referee goes watch the VAR? That adds a lot of time for the match.

Also do we see the VAR as well or is simply what we saw in video?

 

 

Yeah, it needs to be shorter than that - look at Twitter though, like I said earlier they have a very different video of it there that for some reason they won't share on the official forums.

[Spurs08]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

VAR should 100% be in the game, maybe speed up the animation. But if its a mandatory rule, it should exist as much as offsides should.

Exactly! Not such a mad idea

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

This will inevitably lead to some glorious additional rage moments.. I base this on a pet theory of mine. The reason why there is oft so much disgrumentlment over the VAR (in particular in the Bundesliga, anyway), is that subconciously it brings something to the forefront that football fans (and media) rather try to forget. In particular in a low scoring sports such as football, much relies on chance. If you look at some of the more recent finishing tables in the BL, by the end of the season there can be no more than 12 points between the Europa League and the relegation play-offs. In other words, basically three (usually tightly wins, plus a couple additionally draws -- or a couple additional VAR calls going your team's way :P).

The entire thought of this makes a mockery out of standard "industry practices" such as the rampant switchings of managers too -- realistically, there is no way in hell you're going to determine whether somebody was up to it or not over the course of a single season or anything thereabouts. Then again, football has never been a serious business.

 

tldr: hopefully this will lead to some glorious moments also in FM.

It's definitely a serious business now, although few of the owners seem to understand the role of luck. And the pundits are far worse for it :o Since FM is so easy though it's not really based on luck - even a mediocre player can normally get a crap side to be one of the best in the world given 25 years or so, which is sad but a bug they've literally had since the early 90s.

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, grade said:

But adding something, just because?

I do seriously questioning, what does this adds to the game? Realism, sure, that is no brainer. Fun to the game, doubt it (my opinion, I don't take other people opinion into account), if the VAR is simply what we saw in that video.

And I'm a a great supported of the VAR in real life, since I saw the first Rugby Wold Cup, a around 10 years ago.

Why don't we just make the game a pinball simulator then? Football is boring to many, after all !

[forameuss]

I don't really like the idea of it being in, as it seems like it'll be largely cosmetic fluff that won't really add anything to the game.  However, I can understand that it should be in, given it's part of the game in real life.  

Just now, Spurs08 said:

Why don't we just make the game a pinball simulator then? Football is boring to many, after all !

Multi-quote, man, multi-quote!

Edited September 28, 2018 by forameuss

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because its now a law of football. it's quite literally as simple as that.

VAR is as mandatory in Serie A, for example, as the offside rule.

And paid referees, although that doesn't seem to be in-game yet

[Spurs08]

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Referees made errors in previous FMs.

Not anywhere near enough though which I was going to say earlier!

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08

[Spurs08]

27 minutes ago, forameuss said:

I don't really like the idea of it being in, as it seems like it'll be largely cosmetic fluff that won't really add anything to the game.  However, I can understand that it should be in, given it's part of the game in real life.  

Multi-quote, man, multi-quote!

I couldn't use multi-quote as most of these posts weren't yet made when I wrote the replies. Unfortuantely I couldn't post straight away due to a restriction put in place yesterday so they've all come through at once now. Doesn't look ideal really.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, Candy Cadet said:

If you can't turn VAR off, at least have the option of turning the animation off. Do we really need to see the ref running to the sideline and look at an imaginary screen?

I know VAR is the way the game is going but I'm yet to see an implementation in RL that actually works and for sure it will add to the frustration like when you get game after game of dodgy referees.

How many animation options would that mean though? What if I don't want to see throw-ins any more? I remember one of the post-SI CM games had this feature but it was just a bit overly complicated and seldom used.

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, grade said:

So we need to watch the VAR 25 second animation (at that match speed, shared in the video), every time there is an offside playing Series A? Take is going to make the matches in game last even longer. That is my issue with the VAR animation.

It does depend how often it's used too, especially if the bug of "super-refs" who get nearly everything right isn't fixed yet (or ever).

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Yesterday I had a goal ruled out for offside which I'm certain was on, this actually made me wish VAR had been in use and I'm now unable to play FM18 because of it ffs 

It's a single refereeing call, it happens, I'm sure you can get past it

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, MrPompey said:

I dont think the objection to having a decision clarified by VAR is the issue he is mentioning, I think its the impact to the FM gamer in terms of delay whilst it happens, maybe the animation / ref needs speeding up. I think this suspense is quite good personally. No doubt it matches real life usage in leagues / competitions as current so its minor disruptions if you ask me anyway

As I mentioned in the VAR thread 2 issues I see already in the VAR demo:

1. The ref is positioned wrong, the linesman covers the side where the ref is, he should actually be positioned on the other side of the pitch and would in fact have had a clear view

2. The ref running to the VAR screen. There is a pathing issues and it looks daft that he doesn't take the direct route and is constantly re adjusting his path. I suspect this may be caused by the technical areas with the ref being "blocked" to run through them and he tries to line up to run between them...thats what it looks like

The 3D match view has never had that good an AI behind it though sadly If the ref can't even walk in a straight line to the screen it explains why the defenders are so often inept when the AI is somehow then meant to represent them playing elite level football LMAO!

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, Carninho said:

yes but was it just a ME animation to show a close chance? The ME could have picked out a chance that hit the bar instead.

The ME isn't real so I have doubts about what VAR brings except a few extra animations. 

But at the end of the day I think I just need to see it working in FM19 to really make my mind up  

Hopefully it's good once the beta hits!

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, Federico said:

My issue with VAR is that it seems to me a lot of people here doesn't have a clue on how it works in real life, nonetheless they feel to complain about its introduction.

The real world application isn't very consistent either. No need to be rude to people with different views though!

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, MrPompey said:

That doesn't make sense. Thats like football teams saying they cant play matches where VAR is not being used for fear of goals not being given

Of course as we saw during the world cup what is visible to everyone seems to sometimes get missed by the VAR team e.g. even the VAR team make mistakes. Where interpretation is a factor then there will always be opposing views

I don't think it helps how inconsisitently the game is ref'd in different leagues. Look at how little stoppage time there is in Europe, for instance, but also how much harsher they are on pushing in the box on set plays etc. IFAB really need to sort that out!

[Spurs08]

3 hours ago, MrPompey said:

Thats possible. I think like all the features every year they need to be seen in game to be fully appreciated.....its a bit like seeing some food and saying you dont like it before you have actually tried it

Like a toddler, basically Hopefully the refs are more intelligent than that!!!

Edited September 28, 2018 by Spurs08