FM16 - The community formation experiment

[alinp]

343

Was quite happy with this formation when I got it as a) I like to play an attacking/pressing style and 3 strikers seemed to fit that bill and b) I had a little success with a 3421 (which I thought wouldn't be too dissimilar) in FM15.

So far, the jury's out and I'm just about to play my first competitive match - Euro Cup 3rd Qual v Krasnodar.

My "1st" XI have pretty good stats for a pressing game, although the defenders could do with a bit more pace, hence Pogba in the middle.

I'm also quite a fan of Ozil's recent VF threads and have had excellent results in my LFC save using his general theories.

So... my starting tactic is...

All of the outfield players have the Mark Tighter PI except the DLP and CD©, both of which have Close Down Much Less PI.

Pre-season results have been mixed, but generally ok since I settled on this set up...

Transfer wise, offloaded some but no-one signed yet. Have my scouts out searching for people with the right mental stats and hopefully will be able to do some business before deadline day.

[alinp]

343

Was quite happy with this formation when I got it as a) I like to play an attacking/pressing style and 3 strikers seemed to fit that bill and b) I had a little success with a 3421 (which I thought wouldn't be too dissimilar) in FM15.

So far, the jury's out and I'm just about to play my first competitive match - Euro Cup 3rd Qual v Krasnodar.

My "1st" XI have pretty good stats for a pressing game, although the defenders could do with a bit more pace, hence Pogba in the middle.

I'm also quite a fan of Ozil's recent VF threads and have had excellent results in my LFC save using his general theories.

So... my starting tactic is...

All of the outfield players have the Mark Tighter PI except the DLP and CD©, both of which have Close Down Much Less PI.

Pre-season results have been mixed, but generally ok since I settled on this set up...

Transfer wise, offloaded some but no-one signed yet. Have my scouts out searching for people with the right mental stats and hopefully will be able to do some business before deadline day.

Seemed to go okay...

[simji13]

and its only october!

[Guest]

I had that in January, it's a risk when doing this type of challenge as the squad (game code) is looking for you to make changes that the challenge rules prevent us from making.

[triplem89]

Finally i got the chance to play the game this week. Iv never been successful in playing with a back 3 but for the first 8 competitive matches its been looking good. Before i started the game i was completely lost as i have never played with this formation before and thanks to rashidi for his youtube videos it helped me alot. I would like to apologize if any of you dont understand my English as it is not my first language. so here's my formation:

[/img]

Iv made 3 tactics but most of the time i used the control mentality and the rest is just for the sake of familiarity in case i change mentality or shape during the match.

im actually not really good at spotting issues in tactics but the things i have seen repeatedly are if i was playing with low defensive line and not closing down this gives the AI time and space to move the ball around and exploit the space on the flanks. So that's why i decided to play with a high mentality plus the instructions of higher d-line,close down and mark tighter set as PI for DCL and DCR as i think this will reduce the opponent's space to get the ball, turn and exploit the spaces behind.

as for the roles selection, iv been changing the roles for STL from AF to DLF/A and also the back three at first, i used all 3 CD/D to stopper/cover/stopper to D/C/D and now back to S/C/S. The reason why i change back to S/C/S was the same as above that is to close down our opponent's forwards before they could turn and face the CBs. I'v also set PI to my GK to pass tp cb, lower risk passing etc.

Next is our results so far:

[/img]

I know its still early of the season and actually im still not happy with the ratings my players got especially the STL position but as the season goes ill try to tweak the roles of course. Another thing is we have not face top teams yet and i just got the feeling im gonna get hammered. lol

This is actually my first posting of tactic in this forum. so im not sure if the image i posted can be seen. haha

[Rashidi]

Episode 7 cut...we have a FM Community Challenge show everyday. Episode 7 features poobingtons 4132 DM Narrow and it looks sweet

[heron]

Ooh, I'll take alook then. Have been trying to get that formation to work myself, but to no avail. Let's see what I can learn from his version and your commentary on it.

[Guest]

Episode 7 cut...we have a FM Community Challenge show everyday. Episode 7 features poobingtons 4132 DM Narrow and it looks sweet

A Swiss Army knife formation. could work well using a high press system with marauding CWB's & a half-back cover, a solid defence shape that counters at pace or one that uses possession & movement to pull apart the opposition defence.

Looking forward to seeing it in action.

[poobington]

Yup that's what I went for, plays like a diamond, and the nice thing is because of the CM in the middle you get quite nice width from your outer CMs. With a player in the DM slot you can also push your wing backs higher too. Really enjoying it. 2nd season isn't going as well for me. Had to overhaul my defense and they are struggling to adapt. it is a good system and I know it can work. It just needs the right personnel.

[cregan]

Formation: 3-4-1-2

I had a save from the end of pre-season (or at least from a couple of days before the first Europa qualifying match, with a last friendly between the two legs) so I restarted back there. Haven't gone for Mammana this time, following Rashidi's advice to use Sall in the middle of the back three, with Pogba and Theophile-Catherine either side, but still bought Pavard as he'll hopefully develop nicely over time with Souici. (I don't know if their stats are partly random or not, but neither Dekoke nor Karamoko are particularly promising in my save.) Sold Perrin to Leicester. Having learned from last time out that as much as Maupay may one day fill in at DLF, the squad's lacking depth in terms of a really creative attacker, so I took Correa on loan from Atletico.

And this is the 3-4-1-2 Hoover:

Control/Fluid

TIs: Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence, Close Down More (the highest available on Control), Use Tighter Marking, Much Higher Defensive Line, Low Crosses, Prevent Short GK Distribution.

PIs: Ruffier is set to Roll It Out, Distribute To Centre Backs, and Pass It Shorter

The idea is that the twin BWMs will run around like maniacs and hoover up anything in front of the back three, while the AP(s) provides linking options to the flanks and the front two, both of whom are relatively free-roaming roles. Roughly half the time I play the DC as a Stopper instead (against 1-1 attacking formations like 4-4-1-1 in particular), other times as a CD(d) with the other two as Stoppers when facing ST+AML/R setups. If we're looking a little loose, I switch Tabanou down to W(s), and/or the slot Pajot's in to a second BWM(d).

So far, four Ligue 1 games and four Europa games in, the system is working much better than my last attempt. Games are often horrendously open, but they're open at both ends (a fluky 0-0 with Bastia aside), and the double BWMs really do track all the way back in a way I never got my old CM(d) to do. The support-duty BWM also wanders forward as well so we're not short on numbers, and while there's the occasional schoolkid rush to mob one guy with the ball while his mates queue up for a cross, that's so far been a fair price to pay for a much better defence up the pitch. We're dominating possession and closing down all over, often forcing the opposition into quick passes the back three can snaffle up without much trouble. And in attack we're (a fluky 0-0 with Bastia and the traditional opening day 4-1 thumping by Toulouse aside) very good. Quick, inventive, fluent.

Ligue 1: P4 W1 D1 L2 F5 A8 (which isn't all that great in numbers terms, but is at least partly down to the one downside of the system...)

Europa: P4 W4 D0 L0 F8 A2 (got a really tough group coming up, though: Schalke, BATE, Partizan.)

The one serious downside, ignoring the expected defensive weaknesses the formation has, is discipline. In 8 competitive games we've had three reds, two of those in our last two games in the league (both BWMs), and Sall's also picked up a suspension for being booked in three of the four.

I'm going to have to lump that, though. Otherwise, while Correa's been a bit disappointing so far, things are certainly going better than last time. And at least the football on offer is a vast improvement.

[Jambo98]

Man, those flanks must get torn to shreds? Winger on attack, with a control mentality......high closing down, no one behind them? IS that not just a complete free for all down your flanks? Or does the high closing down of the BWM help draw them out to try and cover?

[Rashidi]

One thing I learned from this challenge, which I had suspected for a while...is that DM systems are OP, looks like I am back to detailed work on match engine flaws for the next edition. EVERY DM system I have touched has turned to gold

[poobington]

What makes you say that Rashidi? I was going to say that 3 at the back systems seemed very successful this year, but after all these great threads I have been thinking about all the different tactical possibilities and I don't know what to believe anymore!

[Jambo98]

One thing I learned from this challenge, which I had suspected for a while...is that DM systems are OP, looks like I am back to detailed work on match engine flaws for the next edition. EVERY DM system I have touched has turned to gold

Im pretty sure my managerial ineptitude can disprove that .......... I am in the midst of creating a 2 x DM system (not in this challenge) at Porto.....this could be the ultimate test, if i can make it work then its defo OP!

[Wellmade]

My latest update is a lot like a rollercoaster, just as I think I have the tactics working, I go backwards.

I am now in December and have had 3 ultimatums from the board so far, 1 for squad harmony, 2 for losses. So far I have talked my way out of them. Last time had to promise a win while in a bad run, thankfully I got it.

Here are my results and the league table:

Euro Cup has been good, despite the hammerings from Lazio. Although I had a bit of a brown trouser moment against Zilna in the penultimate game, with only a point needed to guarantee qualification.

The tactic and the roles are slowly evolving and the current shape and roles look like this.

The roles either side of the shadow striker change depending on who I have fit.

I have found Bangoura to be an ideal player for the formation and Corgnet a good fit for the SS role, shame he's out injured for another few weeks. Beric has been my main striker on 8 goals in 13 (2). Roux has been injured and and Soderlund has only scored 2 in 5 (13).

My main concern is I want to play slightly deeper to counter but find I am pinned in for long times and then when we do break 9 times out of 10 it breaks down with a pass to where no-one is, other than an opposition player. If I try control, I suffer the same, so find that I have to push slightly higher and have to go attack to pull the back up the field. SO still trying to correct that,

[sgevolker]

Episode 7 cut...we have a FM Community Challenge show everyday. Episode 7 features poobingtons 4132 DM Narrow and it looks sweet

Where can I see all the episodes?

Are they already released?

[Rashidi]

Where can I see all the episodes?

Are they already released?

[Rashidi]

Im pretty sure my managerial ineptitude can disprove that .......... I am in the midst of creating a 2 x DM system (not in this challenge) at Porto.....this could be the ultimate test, if i can make it work then its defo OP!

You were so close to figuring it out at one point..you got warm...hot and then ice cold.

[cregan]

Man, those flanks must get torn to shreds? Winger on attack, with a control mentality......high closing down, no one behind them? IS that not just a complete free for all down your flanks? Or does the high closing down of the BWM help draw them out to try and cover?

It's not actually that bad (so far; I'm ready to eat my words when PSG come calling ). Both wingers press high up the pitch, which seems to take a lot of the sting out of wing play, but they're quick enough and willing enough to track back, at least as far as our own 18-yard line. And the BWM(d) in particular, but both to some extent, happily goes racing out wide if needs be until everyone else chases back to join in, Benny Hill-style. That's why, if we look bothered, it's the ML I switch to support - the BWM(s) isn't as reliable a cover for the flank.

I suspect - only Cherno have played one so far - we'll have more trouble with 4231/4123 systems where the wide AMs are easy to find with a ball over the top. That's why I switched/plan to switch the two outer DCs to Stopper against those systems - with luck, particularly when there's no opposing AMC to confuse them, those DCs should be more willing to step out wide and close down the opposition wingers.

Our biggest problems so far - Toulouse (442 diamond narrow) and Bastia (some kind of 4321 Christmas tree) - have actually come against teams packing the centre, which hurts our attacking play and makes it harder to close down effectively when we're outnumbered in those areas.

On the whole, though, the attacking advantages have more than outweighed the defensive issues. We're creating far more, and making far better use of our own width, than last time out with support wide duties.

[alinp]

343 update

Right... so I've reached September and Transfer window closed (although I didn't know about the "Joker" one, but I've done my permitted signings, so effectively closed for me).

Transfer Activity...

Slightly amended tactic...

Results so far...

and table...

All in all, can't complain.

[cregan]

@ Jambo: As it happens, I can more or less demonstrate our flank play. Just played struggling Montpellier away. They lined up with a 4231 wide, so I started the game with Pogba and KT-C as stoppers with Pavard between them as cover, and Selnaes in the left BWM berth as BWM(d) rather than (s). At half time I took off Selnaes (who was poor; he's not really a ball-winner, but injuries and suspensions aren't helping) for Pajot and shifted him back up to BWM(s) seeing as they'd pegged us back to 1-1 just before the interval. Pajot was injured about ten minutes in and so Souici came in for him, but otherwise I changed nothing else in that defensive section for the rest of the game and we eventually trotted out 3-1 winners.

Here's the tackles, interceptions and aerial challenges, which I find a little more helpful than heat maps, since it shows where they've actually done their work or tried to, rather than simply where they've been standing, for the four BWMs (Clement (#6) is the MCR, while Selnaes (#17), Pajot (#5) and Souici (#28) were at MCL):

They all four covered the flanks, right out onto the byline near the corner flag, as well as across the middle and higher up the pitch (the latter often recovering the ball when our own attacks broke down).

Here's the same for the three DCs (Pogba (#19) a stopper at DCL, Pavard (#14) cover at DC, K-TC (#2) the second stopper at DCR):

Again, flank-to-flank coverage to some extent (even if Pogba was having a lousy game in the air as shown by all those red #19 circles), and I don't remember being seriously exposed out there all game except on the occasional break from a set piece.

OTOH, with a ref considered fair, we committed 21 fouls to Montpellier's 4. It's not always that bad, but that's definitely a weakness of the system.

[chrisw]

Popping my head in to say this thread is absolutely fantastic. Lovely to read so many ideas and different ways of playing. Definitely broadens one's own thinking.

Seriously though, it's distressing to see someone like Jambo put so much effort into making trying to make something work and constantly having FM give you hell. Keep at it bud.

[Rashidi]

A gut wrenching defeat has completely sapped any more interest in the save. There we were when it mattered, when you ask men to show their mettle, instead, we ended up with a bunch of pansies. I was so close...so damn close.

Season has ended. My heart was slowly yearning for Torino. Some observations I made watching peoples pkms

Overall the quality of the tactics submitted are good. They are a handful who don't seem to know how to close down the flanks. Flanks can be defended against whether you're playing a narrow system or not. The hardest system I found for defending the flanks was the 4231, only because it reduced my attacking efficiency. Systems like the 4132, 4312, 442, 424, 343. 532, 352 are all fairly easy to set up.

The mistakes i see commonly repeated are defensive line misadjustments and wrong role choices in the midfield strata. Some have too aggressive closing down settings and some don't use all the tools at their disposal (e.g. OI - turn wrong foot e.g.). For example if you are playing a narrow system and have a packed middle its in your interests to put the fullbacks/wide men on wrong foot. Box to box midfielders are useless unless they have either anchors or holding men BEHIND them.

And yeah St Etienne have a terrible group of central defenders. In France they may be decent enough to overachieve, but once they come up against quality opposition, Loic Perrin is always leaving his area to get his shirt autographed.

Underrated player: Vincent Pajot.

Overrated player : Loic Perrin

Standout player: Kevin Malcuit

I will be posting up the last video soon, once I've got over my disappointment, the challenge was interesting...without being able to change systems was always a challenge, coupled with the system you've been drawn. Good luck to the rest. And thanks for all the Fish

[sgevolker]

Dear Rashidi,

thank you very much for you comments and the creating of the Video. I enjoy this very much.

When I understand it right your recomondation is to protect the flanks in a 4-3-1-2 narrow with more

closing down from the midfielders. Which roles would Support this? I choose the B2B because of transition

and I like this role very much. I choose now close down much more for the LM and RM. Or do you have another advice for me to achieve this?

Regards

Volker

[simji13]

I have tried many different things with this tactic, as I've been quite indecisive to what i really want the tactic to do. Its transformed slightly since pre season and i do have another idea in the pipeline to change some aspects of the system too. But first i will try and explain what i have set up in pre season to now.

So the main points behind the system are.

I wanted the wing backs to be the main width so they've been given the aggressive role of complete wing back on attack. If you spilt the tactic into 5 vertical lines i wanted them to play in one and 5 around the box.

two central mids i was unsure what to so with these and these have been the most changed roles so far, i didn't know if i wanted them to just shield the back 5 or be apart of a pivot. I went for two DLP's at first because i wanted to play out from the back give chance for the wing backs to get up and also for them to rotate possession from wing to wing, i was finding that defensively they where closing down to much to the wings and leaving to much room, but i was liking the aspect of what balls they was providing so i changed to RPM and CM(s)

Even though Selnaes was playing superbly well in this RPM role, still i was thinking it wasn't quite right and when he got injured i changed that role to BWM on support. i wanted to be more aggressive in the middle and win the ball before the opposition got to my defensive line, as i was seeing the two centre mid sitting on top of the centre backs.

Strikers i want them to pull the defence in all ways i want the two outer ones to go to the wings to link with the wing backs to make 2 v 1 against there full backs, i want them to drop deep to get the ball from midfield so they aren't isolated. I really want them to have the creative and feel free to roam. As in times they will be there on there own in attack if we counter quick or a long ball from the back so they need to be able to link and make space for each other.

Early on i was finding a small ball from the opposing team would take them out of the the game completely as they won't track back, so i opted them to all have close down much more and tackle harder i want them to press to stop that easy ball out at times, to be the first line of attack.

In games where i am finding the opposing team DM having space i changed the central role of the strikers to a Defensive Forward on defend to help take him out of the game.

Onto the CB's.

I found because its a back 5 the centre back won't spread out when the wing backs get forward they all seem to be on top of each other most of the time, like if you pushed the full backs up one slot i would say that the defence would act completely different. Because of this I've have them on 3 mentalities different roles to each other to see if that changes anything, but i haven't seen much that it has. I know i might have completely missed it but at present I've kind of got it to work a little better by having two limited defenders and one central defender on cover.

First attempt

second attempt

Latest version.

this is just a brief post at present, just wanted to get something up.

CM onto of CB's

[poobington]

A gut wrenching defeat has completely sapped any more interest in the save. There we were when it mattered, when you ask men to show their mettle, instead, we ended up with a bunch of pansies. I was so close...so damn close.

Season has ended. My heart was slowly yearning for Torino. Some observations I made watching peoples pkms

Overall the quality of the tactics submitted are good. They are a handful who don't seem to know how to close down the flanks. Flanks can be defended against whether you're playing a narrow system or not. The hardest system I found for defending the flanks was the 4231, only because it reduced my attacking efficiency. Systems like the 4132, 4312, 442, 424, 343. 532, 352 are all fairly easy to set up.

The mistakes i see commonly repeated are defensive line misadjustments and wrong role choices in the midfield strata. Some have too aggressive closing down settings and some don't use all the tools at their disposal (e.g. OI - turn wrong foot e.g.). For example if you are playing a narrow system and have a packed middle its in your interests to put the fullbacks/wide men on wrong foot. Box to box midfielders are useless unless they have either anchors or holding men BEHIND them.

And yeah St Etienne have a terrible group of central defenders. In France they may be decent enough to overachieve, but once they come up against quality opposition, Loic Perrin is always leaving his area to get his shirt autographed.

Underrated player: Vincent Pajot.

Overrated player : Loic Perrin

Standout player: Kevin Malcuit

I will be posting up the last video soon, once I've got over my disappointment, the challenge was interesting...without being able to change systems was always a challenge, coupled with the system you've been drawn. Good luck to the rest. And thanks for all the Fish

Just want to say thank you for the analysis in Episode 7. It was excellent and great to see how you essentially knew excatly what roles I was using.

In one part you mentioned that my Wingbacks were getting isolated from my CMs. I have the wingbacks set to stay wider. Do you think that this has an effect of widening the gap between them potentially causing this isolation? I am playing with a very fluid system so technically the formation should be compact, but perhaps the stay wider instruction is overriding this for the wingbacks. Would be interested to hear your thoughts. Thank you again your analysis has really taken the challenge to a new level.

[heron]

Hi poobington would you be so nice to share some more details on how you ste up your formation (player roles and team instructions). I've had some trouble getting the balance between ball retention (this formation seems perfect for posession play) and attacking trust. In my tries, it's been either one or the other, but never a nice mix of these two.

[poobington]

Hi poobington would you be so nice to share some more details on how you ste up your formation (player roles and team instructions). I've had some trouble getting the balance between ball retention (this formation seems perfect for posession play) and attacking trust. In my tries, it's been either one or the other, but never a nice mix of these two.

Heron, if you look on pages 1 and 3I have posted images of the tactic. Please note that it is still under development and is extremely dependant on the players at your disposal and requires very quick defenders

[heron]

I should have looked better, no idea why I didn't see your posts earlier. I've got some FM-time planned this evening, so hopefully this'll give me some inspiration to improve my own tactic.

[Rashidi]

High fluidity does not mean they reduce width. They are compact from

Attack to Defense. Stay wider definitely does have an impact.

You can try removing the shout to see what I mean.

Alternatively looks at roles to drop and support them

[poobington]

High fluidity does not mean they reduce width. They are compact from

Attack to Defense. Stay wider definitely does have an impact.

You can try removing the shout to see what I mean.

Alternatively looks at roles to drop and support them

I see, removing Stay wider was my first move. I was also thinking of mixing up the roles or instructions for the outer CMs however I find myself with two possible options

1. Encourage both of them to get forward and support more - my understanding would be that with instructions like get further forward or move into channels, the outer Cms would be further up the pitch and support the wing backs. The downside would obviously be thet they would leave space behind them.

2. Encourage one Cm to go forward and the other to hold position - Selnaes plays on the left of My diamond and has PPMs which see him sit back a little. On the right I could encourage the midfielder to be a bit more expressive. Currently in my second season I have Bentacur playing in that position and he is instructed to Dribble more due to his technical ability.

By dropping to support the WBs do you mean staying and holding their position or going further up so that they are closer but not beyond them like the CM (a) is.

Ultimately I will have to experiment but I would like to ask if you have any thoughts on potentially different player roles which may be a good fit. I am a big fan of Cm supports due to the flexibility and customisation available through PIs. My thinking is that a box to box midfielder would roam too much and an RPM as a playmaker would attract the ball away from my DLP in the DM strata.

[Jambo98]

You were so close to figuring it out at one point..you got warm...hot and then ice cold.

Meh, same problems now in 8 different systems i have tried to build - Great for 2 games, terrible for 3, great for 4, terrible for 3......repeat

I am obviously just missing something.

[Lenners]

Deal me in please. I've been looking for a new challenge

[Jambo98]

Deal me in please. I've been looking for a new challenge ��

Lenners - 41311 DM Narrow

[poobington]

A quick update regarding my wingbacks. I have taken Rashidi's advice and removed the stay wider instruction from my wingbacks. As a result they seemed to be a bit better not overtly hugging the touchline but still running into wide areas due to the run wider instruction. I did not like this. It resulted in predictable build up play from my wingbacks. There would be some nice passing triangles by the midfield a cross field switch or simple ball to my wingback who then predictably run outs wide. When it works they get a cross in and a scoring chance is available. If not they run themselves into the corner flag and are isolated. Due to the very fluid mentality they try something fancy and the ball either goes out of play or we lose possession.

For the second half I tried the Fb attack. A role with the same mentality and far fewer instructions. Most notably the instructions to run wide, dribble more and cross form the byline are removed. This small change resulted in my fullbacks get far more involved in the play with the Right back bagging two goals including a lovely long range effort. I still may introduce the dribble more instruction as my fullbacks are the best dribblers on my team but so far so good.

TL;dr The point I'm trying to make is that in a wingerless system the FB attack can be a superior role to wingbacks or indeed complete wingbacks if you are look for your fullbacks to be more involved in the play and want more varied wing play rather than run wide and cross.

[the_gaffa]

Well my first season playing the 424 DM Wide ended like this....

Results

Aside from the three games we lost in a row (which saw us painfully lose a semi final and then a final within the space of a few days!), I've been really pleased with how the team have performed. We've been pretty consistent, whilst getting a good amount of goals and remaining solid at the back.

League Table

Delighted with our final position in the table. Had it not been for PSG losing a single game all season, it could have been even better! Can't complain though and it gives us something to aim for next season.

Players

I must say that I lucked out somewhat because the squad has an abundance of wingers and defensive mids... perfect for a 424 DM wide system! My standout players were...

Roux & Maupay - Grabbing 48 goals between them, they formed a formidable strike partnership and the majority of my goals came from these two. Maupay in particular was great, finishing the season as the league's second top scorer despite being injured for two months.

Hamouma - Made the right wing spot his own. He grabbed 15 assists and also chipped in with 9 goals. He's unhappy after I rejected numerous bids though and I doubt the player will still be with the squad next season.

Ruffier - Saved our skin on two penalty shootouts and won league keeper of the season along the way. Geronimo Rulli is joining the squad on a bosman however and there will be some fierce competition for the number 1 spot with these two!

Tactics

Nothing changed much from the last time I posted. I did however create a defensive variant for tough matches and to see the end of games out. I actually managed to grab quite a few goals after switching to this late on...

Summary

I've really enjoyed this challenge and it's been great fun. Going to play next season and see if I can take these tactics further. I quite fancy trying my hand at a 41221 too along the way.

[Leccy]

Overall the quality of the tactics submitted are good. They are a handful who don't seem to know how to close down the flanks. Flanks can be defended against whether you're playing a narrow system or not. The hardest system I found for defending the flanks was the 4231, only because it reduced my attacking efficiency. Systems like the 4132, 4312, 442, 424, 343. 532, 352 are all fairly easy to set up.

How do you close down flanks?

[TheBambino]

5 - 2 - 1 - 2 Sweeper WB

I've been trying for a whole week to get this system running efficiently. So i decided to have a go at it on Touch. We finished third in the league, only four points behind Lyon and one behind PSG.

Ruffler was week in week out a class above the rest, brought in Yepes (his pace was worrying, but he made up for it by being defensively solid) for experience in the backline and cover for my sweeper.

Bayal Sall was solid alongside him (unfortunately, Perrin was rather average in the sweeper position and centre of defence).

Clerc and Pogba (converted into a wingback, due to injury to Assou Ekotto at the beginning of the season) were brilliant on the wing, had majority of the assists for the team.

Made a find of the season in Hector Canteros, converted him to a roaming playmaker. He made the team tick.

Eymerric got his fair share of goals and assists in the AM position which was great.

Beric stole the show up front finished top scorer in the league with 21 goals, ahead of both Roux and Maupay.

Transfers

Yepes - SW/CD - 100k

Canteros - CM - 1.7 m

Tactics

We played with a high press, which was the only system that worked for me, while i was testing with the sweeper. Everything else just fell apart because when we dropped to far back, the centre backs would push together forgetting about the sweeper between them. This would in turn cause my wingback to drop narrower while defending, and defeat the purpose of having five players in my backline, thus leaving my team vulnerable to the deadly nature of crosses on FM16.

Passing i kept as mixed to make sure my players did not hang on to the ball too long because this led to them trying one too many short passes. Players are positioned wide to force the opposition play more football down the middle of my team, than pushing it wide to a fullback or winger to whip in (didn't want to leave those crosses to chance). Work Into the Box, obviously to counter the long range shooting attempts that appear with everything shorter than direct passing.

The only player instructions were for my goalkeeper who was forced to play the ball short to my centre backs.

Result

We finished 3rd in the league, 4 points off the winners Lyon, and a point behind PSG, who were having an absolutely dismal season to say the least. Beric beat Ibrahimovic and Cavani to the Ligue 1 Golden Boot. Eymerric made it into the team of the season, possibly my contender for player of the season alongside Clerc, who lit up the right wing with his ferocious crossing.

It was definitely hard the first couple of times to understand the positioning of the Sweeper and its effect on the rest of the backline. Tried multiple different methods, trial and error, to see what had an effect and what didn't. But once you have the system working, defensively it is okay, with the centre-back pushing forward to halt any attack and the Sweeper licking up anything played behind them.

The Wingbacks were just generally amazing in attack, putting in a shift match in, match out. Defensively they left a lot wanting, but that was to be expected with such a high press system, on they would press too much, thus following the opposition winger/inside forward and leaving space too be exploited by the opposition fullback. Which is not exactly perfect, but that's the sacrifice for the assists they do make.

My midfield trio held the ship steady while still being a force of nature, with Canteros running for days and being all over the place, and Pajot waiting to snuff out any quick counter. Eyserric was just amazing, he posted stats that averaged 7.60 for the whole season, got in on the goals while still having the vision to supple the forwards with assists and the wingbacks with passes that often lead to them making an assist.

Up top, i started with both Roux and Beric in their preferred position, to see how they would play together. Genius idea, as they rocked together, both scoring from open play and on the counter. Beric just always seemed to pop up just as the cross was whipped in to score.

Ultimately, i enjoyed the challenge, it was great fun, trying to implement a system that i had no experience with before at all. It was definitely a struggle at first piecing each part together, slowly, while making sure that it didn't cause the rest of the system to fail.

Definitely like to hear what you have to say, or any questions or queries you have on the tactics I played. Even improvements to them would be great too.

Thanks for reading

[Rashidi]

Well you don't flip a switch. Most people don't know how to do it cos they think it's simply a function of closing down.

Closing down involves defensive line adjustments, closing down, tackling instructions and roles.

[Wellmade]

After my 5th conversation with the board on my performance I was asked to get 11 points out of the next 5 games to save my job. Needless to say that didn't happen.

Was expecting it, the results hadn't been great since before Xmas, despite trying different options. Didn't help that when I got the final ultimatum I had Monaco and OM in the games to be played. Who am I trying to kid, I could've had the teams around me and still not got it.

The good news is that if they do get relegated, I have left them financially well off with and a chunk of the wage bill. Got a ton of offers for players during the January transfer window so I accepted what I could and cut down on the amount of players complaining of not getting game time due to the formation.

[heron]

4132 DM Narrow

I must say I've been struggling trying to get this formation to work. Only after seeing poobington's work and seeing rashidi's youtube clip on his formation was I able to make some changes which let the team click into gear. Right now, this is the tactical setup we're using. The players used is this screenshot are not all my main players: we've been having some problems with injuries and suspensions. I've been using Perrin as half back and he's been quite all right there. And it's a position where his 'get further forward' PPM isn't as bad as in a central defender position.

The use of a half back creates a nice shape when attacking as shown in the srceenshot below. Depending on the position of the ball, it transforms from a 4-1-3-2 to 3-4-1-2 to 3-3-4.

And finally, the team's results since using this tactic. We're currently in 4th place, given my first few matches weren't as successful as I hoped trying to get the tactic right. In the Europa League, we finished 2nd in our group and meet Rubin Kazan in the first knockout round.

[Rashidi]

I used the 4132 in my Torino save and they destroyed Juventus.

[cregan]

3-4-1-2

Small update. Finally reached the big test of PSG, and were fairly roundly trounced 3-0, though we had a few chances at 0-0 that might have changed things. Their forward line was just way too good for us.

However, before then we'd been unbeaten in all competitions since August 23rd, and gone the last couple of games not only without conceding but also without anyone even getting a shot on target against us. I've been routinely playing the two wider DCs as stoppers in all games because they've been so good against wider formations that way, and we've been largely brilliant (would've been near-top of the league too if sheer exhaustion hadn't seen us concede a last-minute equaliser against Caen a few games ago). The 'hoover' plays like a cross between Newcastle's 'Entertainers', a full-throttle Klopp or Sampaoli side, and some kind of Guardiola-era Barcelona wannabe with the occasional hideous schoolboy error thrown in. Really good to watch.

Only thing I'm mildly niggled by is the more withdrawn of the two strikers. I'm not sure the current DLF(s) contributes enough. That said, we've got the 3rd best scoring record in the league, to go with the 8th best defence, the highest average possession by a margin, and we create so many chances most games. Of course, we're also giving away a penalty every other game on average and we've the third worst fouls count, having been overtaken by Gazalec Ajaccio for second spot in the past couple of games (what Bordeaux out in first are doing I don't know, but I assume from the stats they just run on to the pitch waving chainsaws and let nature take its course), so that could be better as well.

[Guest]

If I'm not happy with one of my strikers not dropping deep enough I assign him to mark the central midfield who shields the defence, DM is easy to pick & when it 2 MCs there is generally one who sits much deeper than the other & the striker can easily mark them without being drawn too far out of their normal zone.

There are also times when I set a striker to mark the most attacking fullback if I'm using a FB/WB only system as that helps prevent getting overloaded on the oppositions main attacking flank & as with the split MC's the AI will tend to favour one side of the pitch over the other.

[cregan]

Hmm. I hadn't thought of trying man-marking. I tried changing him to a DF(d) against PSG to try to badger their DM and consequently free up some space for our AM, but that didn't help much. Might give that a go!

[sgevolker]

4-3-2-1 Update

First Post:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/458708-FM16-The-community-formation-experiment?p=10861628&viewfull=1#post10861628

After Winterbreak:

We're doing very well in the league, only two losses. At the end we are on position two.

In the Euroleague we reach the first knockout round, but we got AS Roma now. This will be a great challenge for us.

In Coupe de France and Coupe de la Ligue we got tough opponents.

Here is the squad list. Clerc and Roux with great performance.

I'm very pleased how the things go on. Let's see what we can achieve.

[Forza Doria!]

Jambo98, I'm withdrawing from the contest.

It's impossible for me to get involved while ever my posts perpetually need approval by moderators before appearing. Yes, I am new, but shouldn't be discrimated against by the SI Forums in this way. I'm not some little kid that can't read and write and needs his/her hand held to type a coherent post.

Makes it impossible to participate in the flow of a discussion because it takes days for your posts to appear (by which time the conversation has moved on), and sometimes not even at all (usually when using mobile device, they are less likely to appear for some reason).

Anyway, good luck to everyone but the rules of this forum make it extremely frustrating for new people to get involved, so I'm out. I'll just lurk and read in the background instead, but someone at SI should take note of this, if they want to encourage more participation from new people.

[herne79]

Jambo98, I'm withdrawing from the contest.

It's impossible for me to get involved while ever my posts perpetually need approval by moderators before appearing. Yes, I am new, but shouldn't be discrimated against by the SI Forums in this way. I'm not some little kid that can't read and write and needs his/her hand held to type a coherent post.

Makes it impossible to participate in the flow of a discussion because it takes days for your posts to appear (by which time the conversation has moved on), and sometimes not even at all (usually when using mobile device, they are less likely to appear for some reason).

Anyway, good luck to everyone but the rules of this forum make it extremely frustrating for new people to get involved, so I'm out. I'll just lurk and read in the background instead, but someone at SI should take note of this, if they want to encourage more participation from new people.

Sorry you are having these sorts of problems. I approve posts as soon as I spot them, although quite why yours are getting caught out like this I don't know.

I'll report this issue now that I know you're having trouble and hopefully straighten things out for you.

[heron]

I'm getting towards the end of my first season and need some clarification on the transfer rules we're imposing onto ourselves. In the OP it mentions we're restricted to 2 permanent and 1 loan signing per season. There's no exception for free transfers, under-18 players or short term loanees, right? It does restrict overhauling the squad somewhat, which seems to impact some tactics more than others. For example, I'm using a narrow formation in which I can't really use all the wingers Saint Etienne have available. Some can be retrained into attacking CM's, but it does hinder me.

[Jambo98]

I'm getting towards the end of my first season and need some clarification on the transfer rules we're imposing onto ourselves. In the OP it mentions we're restricted to 2 permanent and 1 loan signing per season. There's no exception for free transfers, under-18 players or short term loanees, right? It does restrict overhauling the squad somewhat, which seems to impact some tactics more than others. For example, I'm using a narrow formation in which I can't really use all the wingers Saint Etienne have available. Some can be retrained into attacking CM's, but it does hinder me.

The challenge was only really designed to be a short term / 1 season affair. The OP rule around transfers was for that single season, and it is to ensure we are all working with roughly the same players. The squad is big enough and flexible enough to support pretty much every tactic, when you factor in the 3 transfers.

If you choose to continue beyond season one, and I think each year a few people do, because it becomes an interesting save, you are welcome to deal with transfers / squad as you see fit You are also welcome to keep posting tactical related updates in here.

Really the "challenge" was more about getting people thinking creativity with the tactical options available, and sharing lessons / methods. The actual end results were, for me at least, not the main driver (Although well done and massive respect to those who have achieved great things with Saint Ettiene!)