Creating Chances: Advanced Playmaker, Enganche or Trequartista?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Hey everyone, I am new to these forums & football manager. I signed up because I am looking for some advice on tactics.

One area that has puzzled me is the difference between the following AMC roles:

• Advanced Playmaker (Support)
  
• Advanced Playmaker (Attack)
  
• Trequartista
  
• Enganche
  

To put this into context, here is my playmaker. No other than Mr Özil...

[/url]

Please could someone help me with the following:

1. A simple, clear description of the differences of each role.
   
2. Under what circumstances I am best using each role, particularly talking about formation, team mentality & fluidity context.
   

Quite simply I'd like Özil pulling the strings in my attack, playing deadly key passes everywhere and creating lots of chances.

Thanks!

[yonko]

It's not just about what role you choose to set up for Ozil, but also what roles you choose for the players around him. Another important thing is how do you want your team to play overall.

All the roles you are asking about are clearly playmaking roles. The deferences between them are in terms of creative freedom, mobility, defensive participation and balance between creating and scoring. Have you read the in-game descriptions for each role? What do they tell you? Have you checked what instructions you can change for each role? I will try to rank the roles in terms of their differences.

Creative Freedom:

1. Trequartista

2. Enganche

3. Advanced Playmaker (attack)

4. Advanced Playmaker (support)

Mobility:

1. Trequartista

2. Advanced Playmaker (attack)

3. Advanced Playmaker (support)

4. Enganche

Defensive participation:

1. Advanced Playmaker (support)

2. Advanced Playmaker (attack)

3. Enganche

4. Trequartista

Scoring/creating balance:

1. Trequartista

2. Advanced Playmaker (attack)

3. Enganche

4. Advanced Playmaker (support)

Keep in mind that the Advanced Playmaker role (on both duties) can be tweaked with more instructions to add mobility, scoring and regulate the defensive responsibilities. You also have to take under consideration Ozil's PPMs.

[Torskus77]

Getting players in the Attacking Midfield Strata (central) can be problematic in FM and real life. They are easily targeted especially if the opponents know you are going to run everything to them. Players with a lot of class like Ozil have the ability to do something special, but don't expect it to be every five minutes, it could be once or twice a game, with a pass that unlocks a defence.

As said above, it is rather difficult to advise his best role, because it largely depends on what is going on around him, his PPMs are Moves in to channels, comes deep to get ball, runs with ball often, and tries killer through balls, so whatever role you give him, his actions are rather dictated already. If you don't want or need him to offer anything defensively, then Trequartista seems a good option, as he will just float around trying to find space, without thinking about doing any kind of defensive work.

However as said above also the advanced playmaker has quite a few options you can change, and it will also mean your team tries to find him more often too, this could be problematic when the opponents have a DM though, especially if they are half decent.

Personally with his PPMs, I'd have him on an attacking role, as he is going to come deep to fetch the ball with his PPM anyway, it's a nice problem to have by the way :-)

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Thanks guys!

What role would you say Bergkamp played? Trequartista?

[Cleon]

Thanks guys!

What role would you say Bergkamp played? Trequartista?

He wasn't a treq and in his autobiography calls himself a shadow striker. But during his time at Arsenal he was more a F9 compared to treq/SS.

[rune_star]

Find it kindda hard to get a genuine no. 10 role to 'work' in FM14... Even though it's against real life usage, the best performances from Treq/Eng. is actually playing at least two players in the AM strata. Not saying it can't be done with a single AM, but a single seems to be easily nullified by opponents. Especially if you only have one striker ahead of him...

Having two can 'confuse' opp. DM/DC's and can then create more space for your Treq/Eng. Try coupling an Enganche role with an AM (support/attack) role depending on your tactics. Or like I've been having great success with lately, one treq/Eng. in the AMCL spot, one striker centrally and then an F9 on opposite side of the striker. The F9 drops deep and attracts attention, thus creating space for your playmaker... Having a genuine winger right beside the Enganche with instructions to stay wide also helps to vacate sufficient space for your playmaker as well as offer multiple outlets so that he actually have someone to pass to

[THOG]

Find it kindda hard to get a genuine no. 10 role to 'work' in FM14... Even though it's against real life usage, the best performances from Treq/Eng. is actually playing at least two players in the AM strata. Not saying it can't be done with a single AM, but a single seems to be easily nullified by opponents. Especially if you only have one striker ahead of him...

And that's the way it should be. The genuine no. 10 is a romantic anachronism, and to get it working in a modern context, you need to build your entire system around a very special player.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

He wasn't a treq and in his autobiography calls himself a shadow striker. But during his time at Arsenal he was more a F9 compared to treq/SS.

Thanks Cleon.

My interpretation of Shadow Striker is closer to an AMC(A) than any of the playmaker options though - is that correct?

I see the Shadow Striker as someone making forward runs from deep and trying to score themselves. The way I see it is perhaps a more advanced Scholes / Lampard or even how I have read Pele played. I remember Bergkamp as more of a playmaker. Maybe either I am wrong or the FM-interpretation is different to Bergkamp's interpretation.

[Cleon]

Thanks Cleon.

My interpretation of Shadow Striker is closer to an AMC(A) than any of the playmaker options though - is that correct?

I see the Shadow Striker as someone making forward runs from deep and trying to score themselves. The way I see it is perhaps a more advanced Scholes / Lampard or even how I have read Pele played. I remember Bergkamp as more of a playmaker. Maybe either I am wrong or the FM-interpretation is different to Bergkamp's interpretation.

Bergkamp's interpretation is wrong imo and you are correct about Pele being arguably the greatest shadow striker ever

The SS is supposed to be a constant goal threat and going beyond the striker to score the goals. He causes all sort of issues due to coming from deep and running at players. I've had a lot of success with it on FM

[THOG]

I see the Shadow Striker as someone making forward runs from deep and trying to score themselves. The way I see it is perhaps a more advanced Scholes / Lampard or even how I have read Pele played. I remember Bergkamp as more of a playmaker. Maybe either I am wrong or the FM-interpretation is different to Bergkamp's interpretation.

A Shadow Striker is supposed to just be a withdrawn forward who sits deeper in the defensive phase but not an outright midfielder. He'll help press and defend a bit more, but in the attack, he's supposed to offer a more creative forward what a goal-scoring striker traditionally does. Scholes/Lampard would be more of a Central Midfielder (Attack), IMO.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Bergkamp's interpretation is wrong imo and you are correct about Pele being arguably the greatest shadow striker ever

The SS is supposed to be a constant goal threat and going beyond the striker to score the goals. He causes all sort of issues due to coming from deep and running at players. I've had a lot of success with it on FM

OK so I don't think that is the role I am looking for in this case. Right now I am torn between Advanced Playmaker Support and Trequartista for Ozil.

When we have the ball I love Trequartista but the lack of pressing ruins my whole defensive set up!

A Shadow Striker is supposed to just be a withdrawn forward who sits deeper in the defensive phase but not an outright midfielder. He'll help press and defend a bit more, but in the attack, he's supposed to offer a more creative forward what a goal-scoring striker traditionally does. Scholes/Lampard would be more of a Central Midfielder (Attack), IMO.

Yea I agree, about the MC(A) was just struggling for a better example.

[lewis999]

On FM13 if you had a Trequartista and used "hassle opponents" it changed his closing down to maximum. Worth a try to see if he does anything? I'm going to with Ozil myself now.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Thanks for the pointers everyone, I have thought about what I am trying to achieve and decided to play two systems.

The first is a Balanced / Control 4-6-0 tactic with high pressing. The main goalscoring threat is Walcott on the right. I'll post a screenshot of the formation later. Given that I want to create as much space as possible for Theo I don't want Ozil moving forward, but I do want him involved with the press. So I chose Advanced Playmaker Support.

The 2nd system, regularly used in bigger games or away from home is a Balanced / Counter 4-6-0, same shape. Again Theo is the main goalscoring threat. This time I am not so worried about the Press because we sit back and maintain our shape. Additionally I was want a more attacking role because of the lower mentality. Therefore I chose Trequartista.

Does this make logical sense?

Over time I want to play a more Fluid Control system, reading wwfan's guide I need to reduce the specialists so change Ozil to Attacking Midfield Support. Could anyone summarise how this would change the way Ozil plays?

Thanks again.

[jujigatame]

Scoring/creating balance:

1. Trequartista

2. Advanced Playmaker (attack)

3. Enganche

4. Advanced Playmaker (support)

Not sure about this. Assuming #1 on this list is the most weighted towards scoring (rather than creating) I'd think Enganche would be above AP. APs have "shoot less often" greyed out, which I assume means their instruction is to shoot as little as possible, and they'll always look to dribble and/or pass first.

I had also thought that Trequartista and Enganche were identical except for their roaming instructions.

[jujigatame]

I think Ozil is best suited as an AP/A with added roaming, and he's done well for me (despite bad injuries) with those instructions. He has great dribbling so I don't want to discourage him from running with the ball, and I prefer AP to T because his finishing and long shots are average, so I'd rather he always look for the killer ball first. I added the roaming instruction because he has good decisions, off the ball, agility, and crossing, so I don't mind him getting into wide areas from time to time.

[yonko]

Not sure about this. Assuming #1 on this list is the most weighted towards scoring (rather than creating) I'd think Enganche would be above AP. APs have "shoot less often" greyed out, which I assume means their instruction is to shoot as little as possible, and they'll always look to dribble and/or pass first.

I had also thought that Trequartista and Enganche were identical except for their roaming instructions.

My list was about the most even balance between scoring and creating.

[yonko]

Thanks for the pointers everyone, I have thought about what I am trying to achieve and decided to play two systems.

The first is a Balanced / Control 4-6-0 tactic with high pressing. The main goalscoring threat is Walcott on the right. I'll post a screenshot of the formation later. Given that I want to create as much space as possible for Theo I don't want Ozil moving forward, but I do want him involved with the press. So I chose Advanced Playmaker Support.

The 2nd system, regularly used in bigger games or away from home is a Balanced / Counter 4-6-0, same shape. Again Theo is the main goalscoring threat. This time I am not so worried about the Press because we sit back and maintain our shape. Additionally I was want a more attacking role because of the lower mentality. Therefore I chose Trequartista.

Does this make logical sense?

Over time I want to play a more Fluid Control system, reading wwfan's guide I need to reduce the specialists so change Ozil to Attacking Midfield Support. Could anyone summarise how this would change the way Ozil plays?

Thanks again.

What kind of 4-6-0 are you using?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

What kind of 4-6-0 are you using?

I'll post a screenshot later but the shape is:

GK, DR, DC, DC, DL, DMC, MCR, MCL, ML, AMR, AMC

Basically a back four with a diamond midfield flanked by a wide midfielder and an inside forward.

[yonko]

I'll post a screenshot later but the shape is:

GK, DR, DC, DC, DL, DMC, MCR, MCL, ML, AMR, AMC

Basically a back four with a diamond midfield flanked by a wide midfielder and an inside forward.

I'm using pretty much the same formation, except that I have two attacking Inside Forwards out wide. My AMC is a Trequartista.

Why are you using a Wide Midfielder on the left?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

I'm using pretty much the same formation, except that I have two attacking Inside Forwards out wide. My AMC is a Trequartista.

Why are you using a Wide Midfielder on the left?

As promised..

I use a Wide Midfielder for two reasons:

1. I like the defensive positioning.
   
2. I want him come inside when Ramsey goes forward and take his place maintaining the diamond.
   

I found this game interesting:

Created a lot with very little ball. Seems this could be quite effective against big sides.

Check out the chances Ramsey got from his MCa spot:

Scored a goal and got a 8.1 rating in the first game. I'd love to re-create his real life form!

[THOG]

Yeah, Ramsey is basically operating like a shadow striker on steroids in this set-up. Drops into central midfield in defence but should operate well ahead of Ozil in attack. With Walcott cutting inside, this is basically a 4-4-2 diamond in attack. Interesting idea. It's got to be demanding on his physical condition though.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Yeah, Ramsey is basically operating like a shadow striker on steroids in this set-up. Drops into central midfield in defence but should operate well ahead of Ozil in attack. With Walcott cutting inside, this is basically a 4-4-2 diamond in attack. Interesting idea. It's got to be demanding on his physical condition though.

Would you say a "Shadow Striker on steroids" is a good thing?

[thomit]

I think Ozil is best suited as an AP/A with added roaming, and he's done well for me (despite bad injuries) with those instructions. He has great dribbling so I don't want to discourage him from running with the ball, and I prefer AP to T because his finishing and long shots are average, so I'd rather he always look for the killer ball first. I added the roaming instruction because he has good decisions, off the ball, agility, and crossing, so I don't mind him getting into wide areas from time to time.

I do the same in my current 4-1-2-1-2 setup. Much trial and error suggest that Özil works best when he's a AP/attack with added roaming. But it will depend on team settings and the other players' positions, roles and duties, of course. The main drawback with this setup is that it really isn't any room to play Ôzil and Cazorla at the same time ...

[yonko]

As promised..

I use a Wide Midfielder for two reasons:

1. I like the defensive positioning.
   
2. I want him come inside when Ramsey goes forward and take his place maintaining the diamond.
   

I found this game interesting:

Created a lot with very little ball. Seems this could be quite effective against big sides.

Check out the chances Ramsey got from his MCa spot:

Scored a goal and got a 8.1 rating in the first game. I'd love to re-create his real life form!

I think you could still use Ozil as Trequartista in your set up. And I would change Wilshere into DLP-S. Then during the course of games you could swap Ramsey and Wilshere with the instructions from the match menu. So Ramsey becomes your DLP and Wilshere becomes your CM-A.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

I think you could still use Ozil as Trequartista in your set up. And I would change Wilshere into DLP-S. Then during the course of games you could swap Ramsey and Wilshere with the instructions from the match menu. So Ramsey becomes your DLP and Wilshere becomes your CM-A.

What makes you say that? (I am still learning!)

[yonko]

What makes you say that? (I am still learning!)

Experience.

[danthemanwhocan]

Experience is not a valid answer mate come on. We all view these forums as a tool to learn and develop our understanding of real world tactics and their applications in the world of football manager

What did you experience that this type of asymmetrical formation is better suited with a threw?

Is it a treq in general or is it more beacuse he has Oil that makes this a good formation for a treq?

[yonko]

Experience is not a valid answer mate come on. We all view these forums as a tool to learn and develop our understanding of real world tactics and their applications in the world of football manager

What did you experience that this type of asymmetrical formation is better suited with a threw?

Is it a treq in general or is it more beacuse he has Oil that makes this a good formation for a treq?

I don't see what's not valid about my answer.

[Mark.]

I don't see what's not valid about my answer.

I think he was meaning a little more insight to help explain why you think a Treq works best there etc etc.

I'd love to hear this

[yonko]

Think about what the role of Trequartista offers, especially compared to AP-S (hint: I presented a list in one of my posts above). Then think about what the tactic needs in terms of offensive threat to be better. Put the two together and you'd know why the role would work. In addition, Ozil is a world-class player and capable of playing the role very well.

[Mark.]

Think about what the role of Trequartista offers, especially compared to AP-S (hint: I presented a list in one of my posts above). Then think about what the tactic needs in terms of offensive threat to be better. Put the two together and you'd know why the role would work. In addition, Ozil is a world-class player and capable of playing the role very well.

Yeah good call. I prefer the Treq, especially if it is in my foremost attacking line.

I like your idea on having the centre mids swap roles during the match, pity you cant set this up automatically. Guess at the same time having control over it isn't a bad thing.

[WhyMe]

Yonko, I like the idea of your comparison between the three creative roles and mostly agree with your points. However, I think it is worth noting that the Enganche doesn't play like the other three do at all, particularly the Treq and AP-s. In RT's thread on the 4-6-0 he expected the enganche to drop deep to receive the ball much like the AP-s and Treq do but actually found that the enganche was often his most advanced player in his 4 man AMC line. Further forward than his IF-a and Shadow striker. Furthermore, the Enganche has finishing as one of his primary attributes which suggests he is more likely to get into goal scoring positions. Indeed in my 4-2-3-1 formation (including 3 AMC's) I recently changed my AM-A to enganche to see what would happen and found that he was indeed a more attacking player than the AM-A had been. The enganche's current behaviour appears to be sitting in the hole making himself available for a pass until the attack gets towards the box and then he more aggressively gets himself into goal scoring positions. In my arsenal game I have Wilshere playing this role (who admittedly has the get further forward PPM, though that is available as a player instruction as well) and this has created another dimension to the attack. In summary, for me the enganche is a much bigger goal threat than people give him credit for though it was only through RT's thread and then trying it out that I discovered this as I, like most people I think, thought of him as a very static in the hole only player.

[RTHerringbone]

The Enganche is an odd one. I don't think he is as immobile as the tool tip implies - in fact he is constantly moving from what I have observed.

One advantage the Enganche has over the Treq is that you can instruct him to Close Down More. It's the main reason why my Enganche was often the most advanced player in my striker less experiment.

Everything depends on what you want from the player, but I think there's a very good case to have an Enganche Closing Down More in a wide 4-2-3-1 behind a lone striker. He would press high, win possession and then be able to play in the guys around him. That's what is most key for me here - it's isn't necessarily Ozil's Role you need to worry about - it is how he fits into the system, and they way in which his team mates move around him to enable him to play.

[yonko]

Yeah good call. I prefer the Treq, especially if it is in my foremost attacking line.

I like your idea on having the centre mids swap roles during the match, pity you cant set this up automatically. Guess at the same time having control over it isn't a bad thing.

I like the idea of controlling when the players would swap positions.

Yonko, I like the idea of your comparison between the three creative roles and mostly agree with your points. However, I think it is worth noting that the Enganche doesn't play like the other three do at all, particularly the Treq and AP-s. In RT's thread on the 4-6-0 he expected the enganche to drop deep to receive the ball much like the AP-s and Treq do but actually found that the enganche was often his most advanced player in his 4 man AMC line. Further forward than his IF-a and Shadow striker. Furthermore, the Enganche has finishing as one of his primary attributes which suggests he is more likely to get into goal scoring positions. Indeed in my 4-2-3-1 formation (including 3 AMC's) I recently changed my AM-A to enganche to see what would happen and found that he was indeed a more attacking player than the AM-A had been. The enganche's current behaviour appears to be sitting in the hole making himself available for a pass until the attack gets towards the box and then he more aggressively gets himself into goal scoring positions. In my arsenal game I have Wilshere playing this role (who admittedly has the get further forward PPM, though that is available as a player instruction as well) and this has created another dimension to the attack. In summary, for me the enganche is a much bigger goal threat than people give him credit for though it was only through RT's thread and then trying it out that I discovered this as I, like most people I think, thought of him as a very static in the hole only player.

I never said that the Enganche plays like any of the other 3 roles. I only made 4 lists to indicate the differences between the 4 roles. The key list is the last one about the balance between creating and scoring. For me, the Trequartista has a 50/50 balance between the two. The AP-A is 60/40 (60% being creating), the Enganche is 30/70 and the AP-S is 80/20 if not even 90/10 depending on the player.

I also followed RT's 4-6-0 thread from its beginning and I even tried similar 4-6-0 tactic with 2 AMC, one of them being Enganche (the other one a SS). RT, as well as I, discovered that the role is not so much what most of us thought about it. For me he was also my most advanced player and was a bigger scoring threat than the SS, while the SS was more of the creator. From that I concluded that the Enganche is like an advanced Target Man in the AMC position and not so much a Riquelme type role. Now mind you, I haven't tried the role behind a STC or as a sole AMC in a striker-less formation. But my experiment told me enough and I don't find use for this role in the way I want my tactics to play.

Personally I have fallen in love with my own 4-6-0 with a diamond in the midfield (DM+2CMs+AMC) and 2 IFs on the wings. The Trequartista role for my AMC gives me all I need for the way I want my tactic to play out and I've used various players in it. This role also has "finishing" as required attribute and in fact there aren't many differences in terms of attributes required between Trequartista and Enganche (the only difference is "agility").

[RTHerringbone]

Personally I have fallen in love with my own 4-6-0 with a diamond in the midfield (DM+2CMs+AMC) and 2 IFs on the wings.

Like a blunt 4-1-2-2-1?

I've been using the same, albeit with an Enganche centrally, and I'm flitting between two IFs, or one IF and an AP (A) out wide.

It has been interesting, as I'm finding that you can actually achieve significant pressing with this set up.

If you choose Roles / Duties carefully at MC, you can get 7 of your outfield players pressing very hard, but retaining a tidy DC, DC, DM triangle at the back.

[yonko]

Like a blunt 4-1-2-2-1?

I've been using the same, albeit with an Enganche centrally, and I'm flitting between two IFs, or one IF and an AP (A) out wide.

It has been interesting, as I'm finding that you can actually achieve significant pressing with this set up.

If you choose Roles / Duties carefully at MC, you can get 7 of your outfield players pressing very hard, but retaining a tidy DC, DC, DM triangle at the back.

Like this:

AML____AMC____AMR

____MCL____MCR____

________DMC_______

DL___DCL___DCR___DR

_________GK_________

I've been experimenting with various combinations of roles lately. It helps the fact that I'm playing multiple saves with different teams and I have different players which requires different set of roles. The latest combination of roles that I use is this:

IF-A________Treq_______W-A

________AP-S___CM-A_______

___________DLP-D__________

WB-A___CD-D___CD-D___WB-S

I use Very Fluid and Standard. Typical shouts include: shorter passing, work ball into box, play out of defense, drill crosses, push higher up and hassle opponents.

[RTHerringbone]

IF-A________Treq_______W-A

________AP-S___CM-A_______

___________DLP-D__________

WB-A___CD-D___CD-D___WB-S

I use Very Fluid and Standard. Typical shouts include: shorter passing, work ball into box, play out of defense, drill crosses, push higher up and hassle opponents.

I'm using this at TSV 1860 at the moment:

AP-A________Eng_______IF-A

________CM-S___CM-A_______

____________HB-D__________

CWB-A___CD-D___CD-D___CWB-A

Control, Fluid, Pass Into Space, Drill Crosses, Stay On Feet, Much Higher Defensive Line, Work Ball Into Box.

I've decided to utterly ignore the "rules" about Duty allocation, plus my own rule about not using a Half Back.

It is extraordinarily effective. Quite a few PIs dotted about, including everyone outfield except the DCs and Half Back instructed to Close Down More.

I much prefer setting PIs to Close Down More, as Hassle gets players closing down that I don't want to.

I fully expect the wheels to come off, but it is quite entertaining at the moment.

[yonko]

I'm using this at TSV 1860 at the moment:

AP-A________Eng_______IF-A

________CM-S___CM-A_______

____________HB-D__________

CWB-A___CD-D___CD-D___CWB-A

Control, Fluid, Pass Into Space, Drill Crosses, Stay On Feet, Much Higher Defensive Line, Work Ball Into Box.

I've decided to utterly ignore the "rules" about Duty allocation, plus my own rule about not using a Half Back.

It is extraordinarily effective. Quite a few PIs dotted about, including everyone outfield except the DCs and Half Back instructed to Close Down More.

I much prefer setting PIs to Close Down More, as Hassle gets players closing down that I don't want to.

I fully expect the wheels to come off, but it is quite entertaining at the moment.

Don't your CM-A and IF-A get in each others way? I'd think they would.....How does the Enganche perform? Is he more of a goalscorer or does he also create/assist?

[TottenhamBoi90]

This is why i love this forum. That second post would be exactly the answer i wanted and the one on asymmetric formations, They can be fun to use and he has been very clever. As much as i hate 4-6-0 because of Barcelona i can see how that would work with those players, a bit harsh on Giroud though. Its quality of content much better on these threads which stand it out from the other sites.

[RTHerringbone]

Don't your CM-A and IF-A get in each others way? I'd think they would.....How does the Enganche perform? Is he more of a goalscorer or does he also create/assist?

They're never even close to clashing to be honest. I expected them to be an issue, but there are no issues as yet.

The Enganche is the primary goalscorer, with assists coming generally from the IF, AP and two CMs.

[yonko]

They're never even close to clashing to be honest. I expected them to be an issue, but there are no issues as yet.

The Enganche is the primary goalscorer, with assists coming generally from the IF, AP and two CMs.

I'm surprised that the CM and IF don't get in each others way. It must be the players' PPMs. Do you use any PIs for either role?

On the other hand, not surprised the Enganche is your top scorer.

[RTHerringbone]

I'm surprised that the CM and IF don't get in each others way. It must be the players' PPMs. Do you use any PIs for either role?

On the other hand, not surprised the Enganche is your top scorer.

The IF has no instructions, the CM (A) has Close Down More and Tackle Harder.

PPMs are pretty irrelevant for me, as I rotate players so much that I don't give PPMs undue consideration.

EDIT - Now testing it far lower down the league pyramid, and I definitely need to balance out the Duties, and reel the Defensive Line in a bit!

[RTHerringbone]

I know what I'm messing around with later. So, you are still playing in FMC with this, right?

Yep, I won't be going back to Sim Mode.

I found that tactic absolutely needed more balance for some teams. Staggered the Duties on the flanks so AP was on Support with WB on Attack behind; FB Support behind IF (A).

The MCs still seem OK, but I keep trying to use a CM (D) as I like the option of More Risky Passes in that area.

Much Higher Defensive Line has dropped to Push Higher Up.

The initial set up was fine for half season tests at Salisbury, TSV, Dortmund and Barcelona, but too much for Liverpool.

[Ronhaar]

Got this article at the Perfect time when I was actually trying the above mentioned 4-1-2CMs-1AMs-2IFs Formation...

Currently have my AMC as SS at Man Utd and after a while of testing, I cant seem to get RvP, Rooney or Kagawa scoring as much as I would like.

What would you advise RTH for the AMC role?

How has the Enganche been in terms of his contribution to Goals.

Currently I am using this setup (from right)

WB(S)-CD(D)-CD(D)-CWB(A)

-----------HB(D)----------

--------B2B(S)-CM(A)---WM(Auto)

IF(A)-------SS(A)----------------

Fluid Control

TIs Push Higher Up, Short Passing, Work Ball into Box, Drill Crosses, Be More Expressive.

PIs are

Right WB(S) - Close Down More, Cross from Byline

Left CWB(A) - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside with the Ball, Close Down More

B2B - Close Down More, Shoot Less

CM(A) - Close Down More, Shoot Less

IF(A) - Dribble More

WM(Auto) - Run Wide with Ball, Stay Wider, Cross from Byline

What would you suggest to change in this to get the SS more involved in Goalscoring plays.?

[RTHerringbone]

I'd change a few things to be honest.

I'd reconsider your MC Roles - you need one to sit a bit more because when the Half Back drops you could have a gap from MC back to DC.

I can't be exact here as I'm at work, but I believe you can get the CM (S) to Hold Position, so that's an option, or use a CM (D) and instruct him to do the same.

You lack a creative passer, and haven't instructed anyone to try More Risky Passes, so part of your issue is a lack of supply.

Come to think of it - the CM (D) can definitely be instructed to Try More Risky Passes, so if he can Hold Position too, he's perfect.

The WM possibly obstructs the CWB anyway, so I'd consider pushing him up to the AM line and using an AP (S).

For me, an Enganche is quite prolific. I tried variations of this shape in a few leagues, and had Suarez at Liverpool banging in goals for fun from there last night.

[Ronhaar]

Thanks for the Help mate. Yes you are correct that I was lacking a Creative Passer. changesd as you suggested the B2B to CM(D) with More Risky Passes

also want the CWB on the Left to be Cutting Inside with WM working the left wing. hence the current settings. changes them to W(S) in the AM Strata with PI Stay Wider with CWB

instructed to Cut Inside.

After a few more games if the SS doesnt improve his GoalScoring then will change to Enganche.

[RTHerringbone]

If you do go down the Enganche route, you can instruct him to Close Down More and Tackle Harder.

He offers so much more of an all round game than a Trequartista, that I struggle to see why I would ever use a Treq again.

[Ronhaar]

That would actually massively help in what I am trying to achieve. Have 2 Wing Backs 1 CM on Close Down More PIs

Want High Pressing from my Attacking Players in the Opposition half, SS presses but Enganche with Close Down More might be better as you say.

[RTHerringbone]

That style of Pressing (PIs rather than the TI Hassle Opponents) is really effective. I'm amazed how long it took me to realise

Selective pressing is efficient and effective, and allied to a highish line can work really well.

The inevitable down side is the risk of being caught out at the back, so you need to get that balance right - my set up in post #38 gets torn to shreds if I don't reel it in.

[Ronhaar]

Yes you are Correct on that.

PIs of Close Down More with Mark Tighter is pretty effective in the Opponents Half. Something close to BVBs Pressing is possible with the Attacking Front Four Pressing and the CMs holding position well. Would you suggest to use Much Higher Line with a SK GK(S) to sweep up with Play Offside ON?