Depressed with the game

[BiggusD]

You could upload your savegame and have people take a look, btw. So far you haven't revealed any relevant information for people to help you.

[Wiitastic]

No one ever said football management was easy, if it was as easy in real life as it is in FM then Liverpool would have won the last 10 EPL titles.

[omaroo]

Your right guys, just need the right tactics in this game, i will post the relevant screenshots when i can. Also how can i actually upload my save game. Kinda feel weird about it.

[BiggusD]

You need to upload it to a filasharing service like Gamefront, then link to it in here.

[omaroo]

but how exactly do i do that, is there info for that.

[omaroo]

Well i started a game with celtic, boy its hard, and after reading various tactics i tried them and still am losing games. Plus my finances are so little. Also regarding the screenshots for me tactics, its playing up, i am trying to get my laptop fixed and when i do i will upload them. But just show even though im trying everything in this game its no way near as easy or even fun compared to other versions like fm11.

[scott MUFC]

my team isn't world class, but wins plenty.

i have used 4 or 5 differant formations AND assman in games.

it isn't easy, but landing the correct players for your team are key IMO. i go v fluid attacking 4-2-2-2 at home, can outplay even barcalona

[richpk]

this has to be one of the weirdest threads i have ever read on this forum!

i if you want a game to play that you can leave it on default and win everything without trying then dont bother with this game.

my advice, look at the teams in real life you enjoy watching. think of the style and go from there. stick with the tactic for a good for months (game time not real life months) and tweek them to see if you can improve them if needed. it really is a case of trial and error and the game is not supposed to be easy!

I have fallen for a 4-1-1-3-1 formation and tinker with it depending on the team i am playing.

[omaroo]

Richpl, i do do similiar style to real life teams. I usually play attack fluid football at home or counter balanced football away, and use different formations depending on the situation. But still not winning enough. I really deserve a break on THIS game.

[omaroo]

Well im not depressed with the game anymore, im loving it played over 6 hours yesterday lol. Im with Celtic atm with all Scottish competitions and for the first time on FM12 i won a league title. YES. For someone who had played the versions before with classic tactics and didnt really bother with player instruction and on top of that was winning everything i feel im more tactically sound in FM12 compared to the other, i have always known i was good at the game but i was depressed for a while with FM12 that i was thinking to myself how on earth was i so successful on the other games with just basic tactics and really not advanced tactics, but using my common sense and just thinking what to do in a real football match im really successful on FM12 at last. So ye enjoying the game at last. But im still annoyed like the other games im wasting electricity playing for too long lol.

[omaroo]

I have been thinking that all the success i had on the games from 07-11 were just due to basic tactics and not advanced football knowledge or applying any play instructions or any roles to players, but still had success. Im just wondering how was that possible as i cant apply the same forumla to FM12, but now im using more proper tactics in FM12. So how did i have so much ssucess on those other games and not so much on FM12. Its really bugging me, it would have been gd to have all those game saves from those games , im just asking as i want to know was i good and am i good still.

[wally13]

If your playing on 12.2 you should be having success with Celtic lol especially with rangers in turmoil and not much other competition

[omaroo]

Nah i havent updated dont want to, enjoying the game as it is. I having won stuff with celtic, but i have been thinking of my success in previous games to the current one. How did i manage that with only basic tactics. It is just bugging me, i know i was very good at those games with only basic knowledge but its not working as much with FM12. I just feel i wasted time and everything else all these years.

[chocolatecoatedballs]

made the change myself from fm10 to fm12 and found it vastly different, go to the tactics thread, even the plug and play threads and usualy they explain why they have set up a formation the way they do. It has helped me to understand the vagueries of tactics, I have developed a couple of formations I am happy with and a coupple I have not worked out yet, but will.

Hope that helped.

[omaroo]

Thanks mate, my tactics in FM12 have actually been good and have made more tactically minded and thought out compared to previous years, i dont like using tactics from here, i like to experiment myself like i always have. Its just that from not doing virtually that much for other FM games and winning everything, its hard on FM12 as i need loads more knowledge on tactics to win trophies, and it makes me wonder was i really good back in the day on the other FM games. That is what im thinking.

[bullybeef]

I'm not suggesting I am an expert, but being from the UK, I have watched and played football for over 30 years, so I try to translate real strategies into the FM gaming world.

I was still playing FM2011 and tried a new tactic. I have only downloaded FM2012 recently and incorporated the same tactic and so far so good, but for a couple of outstanding bugs which we cannot control.

I set the default COUNTER ATT, but I uncheck the COUNTER ATT box (I want my players to sit deep but control possession and by sitting deep I try to create more clear cut one-on-one chances). I move the slider up to the first HIGH TEMPO notch, and move TIME WASTING down to RARELY. I use SHORT PASSING, high CREATIVE FREEDOM and DRILL CROSSES (I tend not to use a TARGET MAN).

I player 4 at the back - FULLBACKS set to AUTO but instructed to CROSS BALLS often and HUG TOUCHLINE. MY 2 CBs are instructed to COVER, but I move the CLOSING DOWN one notch higher and set DEFENDING/CREATIVE FREEDOM to 0.

2 DEF MIDS - the LEFT MID plays set to ANCHOR MAN - the RIGHT set to DEEP PLAYMAKER and I move the mentality up to the first ATTACKING notched.

1 CEN MID set as an ADV PLAYMAKER and move the mentality up to the first ATTACKING notched. He requires his PASSING/CREATIVITY/DECISIONS at leasts 13.

2 ATT WINGERS set to INSIDE FORWARDS (and instructed to CROSS BALLS often) with a mentality of ATTACKING 3 notches from the right. I look for high SPEED levels of at least 14, high CREATIVITY/DRIBBLING/CROSSING levels (at least 13)

1 STRIKER set to POACHER with ATTACKING set 2 notches from the right and requires SPEED levels of at least 14, and FINISHING, COMPOSURE, OFF THE BALL and TECHNIQUE at least 13.

You can play around with other individual tactics/instructions as your team develops.

[omaroo]

Like those instruction i have never really done and done great, but has been bugging me alot, even in FM12 im trying to do these instructions with players, but i cant do it as good as others as im not sure of it. This is coming from a guys who has watched footy since i was a kid.

[omaroo]

The more threads i read it makes me think im not as great as i had though for years. I havent even touched FM for days now and dont know why anymore.

[omaroo]

Im not accusing anyone but reading these threads, people being great with tactics, great with crap teams, it just puts me off the game. The more i read the more confused i get. It makes me wonder was i any good the first time i play a FM games, as imm doubting myself and have lost hope in myself now, i cant enjoy the game. I feel depressed and i know it sounds stpud but im just hating myself for playing all these years wasting electricity on a game which i havent potentially advanced in terms of tactics, and am still not at that level in FM12.

[wwfan]

Im not accusing anyone but reading these threads, people being great with tactics, great with crap teams, it just puts me off the game. The more i read the more confused i get. It makes me wonder was i any good the first time i play a FM games, as imm doubting myself and have lost hope in myself now, i cant enjoy the game. I feel depressed and i know it sounds stpud but im just hating myself for playing all these years wasting electricity on a game which i havent potentially advanced in terms of tactics, and am still not at that level in FM12.

Why? You did well in relation to how the game was then. It is now different and requires slightly more thought. That doesn't make any of your previous games or your achievements worthless. It will, however, make any success you have in FM12 taste twice as sweet.

[omaroo]

Ye i did but i has success with very basic tactics and still won everything back then. You probably are right the more i play FM12 the more im gona love the game like the others. I never kept those game saves as i always used to play the next new one and get rid of the previous one, i have the FM11 game saves. Have you and others got game saves for years.

[scott MUFC]

i'm using basic tactics, changed hardly anything and beating everything on one formation alone.

there is something frustrating me.

league cup 3rd round - away

4th round - away

qtr final - away

FA cup

3rd round - away

4th round - away

is this a joke

[marty78]

I think it is very possible to have success with reasonably simple tactics as long as your willing to watch the matches and adjust accordingly. I have two tactics, a 4-4-2(flat) and a standard 4-5-1 and do not set individual sliders for ANY setting on any player. The only changes I make are the occasional mentality change and shouts which I use every match. I am of the opinion that, unless you really understand the game very well, the simpler the better.

I'd definately ignore people saying "first click on attack" or "last click of narrow". This may work for their players but doesn't mean it would for yours. I would also rather lose and get sacked than use a plug and play tactic.

Chin up mate it is just a game after all. If you need help understanding why your tactics are failing then get some screenshots up and people can offer more constructive advice.

EDIT: I also change player roles quite regularly too.

[omaroo]

Thanks marty. Thats the ting i dont use shouts as that is kinda confusing, i dnt want to download tactics as i want yo learn my own tactics.

I just go by what my coach says is the best role of that player and stick with that, mind you seeing that attributes can be good on other roles as well, but i just stick the role which the coach says is the best.

I dont know man love this series, one of my all time favorite games, but i wish i knew why i was so good on those other games with basic tactics and not so great on FM12 even after using advanced tactics.

[omaroo]

i'm using basic tactics, changed hardly anything and beating everything on one formation alone.

there is something frustrating me.

league cup 3rd round - away

4th round - away

qtr final - away

FA cup

3rd round - away

4th round - away

is this a joke

lol the game is fixed.

[omaroo]

Whenever i think im doing good people put me off and get me so down with this game, im lucky i wasnt here as much when i had success on other versions with basically basic tactics and not too much knowledge, which im still annoyed about. For one im not sure what people are taking about getting good players by filtering their attributes, what on earth, i have never done that. Then im not sure if i should be buying in all positions, amongst other little things. Everytime i think i have been good at the FM series, people just make me think i suck. Thats furthers makes me regret playing this series and wasting my time.

[BiggusD]

Whenever i think im doing good people put me off and get me so down with this game, im lucky i wasnt here as much when i had success on other versions with basically basic tactics and not too much knowledge, which im still annoyed about. For one im not sure what people are taking about getting good players by filtering their attributes, what on earth, i have never done that. Then im not sure if i should be buying in all positions, amongst other little things. Everytime i think i have been good at the FM series, people just make me think i suck. Thats furthers makes me regret playing this series and wasting my time.

The only thing that matters is that you're having fun. What other people do is really nothing to worry about, since you play the game your way. What everyone else tells you (including me) is what they (and I) like to do and think of the game. A complex game such as this can be approached in many different ways.

It is also very irrelevant what you did in other games. What matters is what you do now. Besides, computer gaming is always a waste of time so you haven't wasted any more of it than other people who have played FM just as much as you did on previous versions. When that is said, you have repeated that "I was good before but now I suck" message a hundred times in this thread and elsewhere, and even though I know this is your thread and all it starts getting a bit tedious and depressing. Why don't you just man up and move on?

As for filtering by attributes - of course you have to filter the players by other things than Value and star rating! I have created custom filters for defending and attacking attributes that includes all the important attributes (to me) for the roles I am looking for. So for defenders I filter Acceleration, Pace, Strength, Jumping, Stamina, Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions, Determination, Positioning, Team Work, Work Rate, Marking and Tackling, For attackers I filter Acceleration, Pace, Balance, Anticipation, Composure, Creativity, Decisions, Determination, Flair, Off the Ball, Team Work, Work Rate, Crossing, Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Passing and Technique. I then look at players who show up with many 16+ (darkish blue) numbers while not having many white numbers or single digits. In most cases, a quick glance at the player tells me that he will be unsuitable because I know my tactic in and out.

[Robioto]

What advice have you asked for?

Have you looked at the stickies in the tactics forum?

Try reading through some of the links in the thread below if you want to learn. No-one likes hearing someone whine.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/217465-Forum-Rules-FAQs-and-Important-Links-Thread-PLEASE-READ-BEFORE-POSTING

I know that the guys that write those guides work really hard but I think they just alienate frustrated people even more when they see the reams of text trying to explain the workings of the game.

[mije1983]

I know that the guys that write those guides work really hard but I think they just alienate frustrated people even more when they see the reams of text trying to explain the workings of the game.

The problem is FM can be as complex a game as you want it to be. And for those people who really want to dig deep into it, there isn't a quick 5 minute lesson. But there any plenty of tactics and training schedules to download if you don't want the hassle of reading through it all.

As the saying goes, 'Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever'.

[marty78]

The problem is FM can be as complex a game as you want it to be. And for those people who really want to dig deep into it, there isn't a quick 5 minute lesson. But there any plenty of tactics and training schedules to download if you don't want the hassle of reading through it all.

As the saying goes, 'Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever'.

Exactly. There are many ways to play this game. If your confused by a lot of things then delegate to your assistant and then learn them one by one. The stickies in the tactics forum can seem daunting if you try to take them all in at once so just do a bit at a time. If they are things in these that you don't understand or find counter intuitive then feel free to post questions looking for explanations.

I personally have only really got into FM in the last few versions and have used these forums exclusively to learn how to play this game. I'm not at the same level as those that write those guides but feel confident enough in what i'm doing that I don't need an assman at all if I don't want one.

Omaroo:

As BiggusD said it doesn't matter if others are doing better than you as long as you have fun. It is a game after all.

[lil ole me]

I`m depressed too....despressed at how many hours i spend on FM .

[omaroo]

The only thing that matters is that you're having fun. What other people do is really nothing to worry about, since you play the game your way. What everyone else tells you (including me) is what they (and I) like to do and think of the game. A complex game such as this can be approached in many different ways.

It is also very irrelevant what you did in other games. What matters is what you do now. Besides, computer gaming is always a waste of time so you haven't wasted any more of it than other people who have played FM just as much as you did on previous versions. When that is said, you have repeated that "I was good before but now I suck" message a hundred times in this thread and elsewhere, and even though I know this is your thread and all it starts getting a bit tedious and depressing. Why don't you just man up and move on?

As for filtering by attributes - of course you have to filter the players by other things than Value and star rating! I have created custom filters for defending and attacking attributes that includes all the important attributes (to me) for the roles I am looking for. So for defenders I filter Acceleration, Pace, Strength, Jumping, Stamina, Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions, Determination, Positioning, Team Work, Work Rate, Marking and Tackling, For attackers I filter Acceleration, Pace, Balance, Anticipation, Composure, Creativity, Decisions, Determination, Flair, Off the Ball, Team Work, Work Rate, Crossing, Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Passing and Technique. I then look at players who show up with many 16+ (darkish blue) numbers while not having many white numbers or single digits. In most cases, a quick glance at the player tells me that he will be unsuitable because I know my tactic in and out.

I get what you mean, but i cant help it if i feel like im not as good on this game as before. Also your filtering and others when searching for players i dont get, as i have always just searched for players in different positions and didnt really use attributes, maybe i should have. So thats another thing i havent done and wasted time for years but not filtering attributes to buy players.

Plus i dont wont to download tactics ad for me that is cheating and have never done it, i have read through a few guides, not only is a really long but its annoys me even more. I do love this game, but maybe i have never known alot about it or dug that deep into like others. That really ANNOYS me.

[leovii]

If you are depressed from a football management game u have serious issues my friend ...

[omaroo]

^ THANKS for the support.

[leovii]

haha its ok ...

[aderow]

I`m depressed too....despressed at how many hours i spend on FM .

Sounds like you have a problem

[omaroo]

Keep laughing at me, you can be depressed with games if you feel like once you were good and now you are no good, and others playing showing off and putting you down.

[wwfan]

Keep laughing at me, you can be depressed with games if you feel like once you were good and now you are no good, and others playing showing off and putting you down.

Nobody seems to be showing off or putting you down. The central trend of the thread is that you should look back on your past with enjoyment and your future with anticipation. As your post #60 suggested, as your knowledge improves, your enjoyment will become deeper. It is totally irrelevant how you approached previous FMs. All that matters is getting better at this one.

[Bradley21]

Keep laughing at me, you can be depressed with games if you feel like once you were good and now you are no good, and others playing showing off and putting you down.

Get a grip, this isn't MLG Starcraft you're playing here where being worse than someone else is an actual problem. Just play the game your way and have fun doing so.

I can't imagine how someone like you would cope in real life with real problems, you must go from manically depressed to emo suicidal twelve times a day if something as small as FM is getting you down.

[Alex W]

omaroo, i'm not sure if you're trolling or not, either way, it's a game. If it's depressing you, don't play it! Play previous versions, play other games, it doesn't matter. No-one is going to look at your FM career and judge you one way or the other on it.

[x42bn6]

Get a grip, this isn't MLG Starcraft you're playing here where being worse than someone else is an actual problem. Just play the game your way and have fun doing so.

You can't force yourself to have fun...

[Kriss]

I've never thought of FM as fun, it's too much like the real thing:)

[omaroo]

Your right wwfan, but the time and money i think i have wasted on the fm serious has gotten to me.

For the last i am NOT trolling Alex. I dont want to play other versions or other games OKAY. This is the latest one and i want to play. It does matter to me if im depressed.

Is that how you guys motivate other gamers by saying move on, dont play, go to other games. Thats my point i feel like the time and money i wasted all along is true when people say things like that.

I didnt want to say this but i have OCD and im obsessed with making and getting everything right and perfect.

[wwfan]

Your right wwfan, but the time and money i think i have wasted on the fm serious has gotten to me.

For the last i am NOT trolling Alex. I dont want to play other versions or other games OKAY. This is the latest one and i want to play. It does matter to me if im depressed.

Is that how you guys motivate other gamers by saying move on, dont play, go to other games. Thats my point i feel like the time and money i wasted all along is true when people say things like that.

I didnt want to say this but i have OCD and im obsessed with making and getting everything right and perfect.

Did you enjoy previous FMs?

Were you good at them?

If so, how is it time and money wasted?

The only issue is that some changes in the mechanics of the game in FM12 have made it tougher for you. This has nothing to do with your enjoyment of past games, only about how you need to adapt to play this one.

[omaroo]

Yes

Yes

Because of not getting the success in this game, plus with seeing how everyone else is amazing, and how back in others i didnt know that much and didnt use alot of tactics, thats why i think time i wasted and even money.

[wwfan]

Yes

Yes

Because of not getting the success in this game, plus with seeing how everyone else is amazing, and how back in others i didnt know that much and didnt use alot of tactics, thats why i think time i wasted and even money.

Everyone else is not amazing. As in all aspects of life, some are better than others.

As I keep telling you, the game logic changes version by version. Being able to manage tactically and motivationally becomes increasingly more tricky. Just because you aren't perfect at it now doesn't mean you weren't doing the right things in previous FMs. You were doing the right things for those versions of the game. All you need to do is learn how to do it in this version, which I thought you were beginning to grasp.

For example, the logic regarding how mentality works changed relatively significantly in FM07, then again in FM10. AI tactics became fundamentally better in FM10, and have slowly improved since then. The significance of morale and the effect of team talks have also changed considerably over the years, with, despite forum chatter, team talks becoming increasingly less significant.

You also have all the tweaks to AI player behaviour in relation to their emotional state, which are becoming more and more explicit. This has only really taken happened over the last 18 months. Explicit differences in condition and match fitness even more recently.

I could go on, but that should be enough to illustrate the point.

[scott MUFC]

these dumb refs are getting on my nearves

scored a goal... play gets pulled back for a penalty. why bother -_-

just conceded a goal from a small passage of play, from a goal kick... when the keeper saved a shot and put it out.. this happens far too often - should be a corner.

i wish FM was like the real thing, then the random defenders standing still, or being 2 yards offside from a free kick (wtf), or passing to the offside corner taker

[Alex W]

Your right wwfan, but the time and money i think i have wasted on the fm serious has gotten to me.

For the last i am NOT trolling Alex. I dont want to play other versions or other games OKAY. This is the latest one and i want to play. It does matter to me if im depressed.

Is that how you guys motivate other gamers by saying move on, dont play, go to other games. Thats my point i feel like the time and money i wasted all along is true when people say things like that.

I didnt want to say this but i have OCD and im obsessed with making and getting everything right and perfect.

But it's a game. It doesn't matter, it has no bearing on anything. If I play a game and can't do well, I stop playing it. If I can't do well and still have fun, I still play it obviously, as it's just a fun thing.

Football Manager isn't anything like football management, the game will intentionally throw matches, it will screw up and it has bugs. You will lose games. Just keep playing until you do well, even edit the game and add managers while you get used to it so you have a ton of money to buy players and get used to what kind of player you need for how you play etc.

You can't be 'perfect' at a video game and getting obsessed about it is pointless. Over-ride your OCD and simply stop playing it if it bothers you so much. Honestly, sell the game to a friend, leave it for a while and play a previous game, anything.

[x42bn6]

As I keep telling you, the game logic changes version by version. Being able to manage tactically and motivationally becomes increasingly more tricky. Just because you aren't perfect at it now doesn't mean you weren't doing the right things in previous FMs. You were doing the right things for those versions of the game. All you need to do is learn how to do it in this version, which I thought you were beginning to grasp.

I think this is part of the problem.

Someone who is good at "football management" (i.e. can read tactics and how games are going, understands some form of psychology, etc.) should likely be very good at this game. The ideal game will present an interface that is so thin and invisible that their in-game actions correspond 1-1 with a real-life action that is anticipated. The "real-life" skill of the manager is then showcased by showing how good they are in the game. In other words, if we could rank real-life managers in ascending order, their corresponding skill in Football Manager should directly correspond to their ranking.

However, the OP feels that the thin and invisible interface is actually a fairly "thick and visible" one. The "game layer" is so thick it changes dramatically (in your words - "increasingly more tricky") after each iteration. This is a failure of the software, likely the interface. The OP perceives himself/herself to have been a fairly good user in Football Manager, and that skill should ideally correspond to a fairly good understanding of "football management". However, when the new version comes round, he cannot apply his skills in the same way to achieve similar results, which is confusing. The OP's skill should not have decreased dramatically, so it is the fault of the game.

The Microsoft Office Ribbon is an example. Studies have shown that experienced users of Office have struggled with the new Ribbon interface introduced in Office 2007 (even until today), while new users are perfectly fine with it. This is because the Ribbon, the software "layer", gets in the way of their ability to type documents. Their word-processing skills have clearly not become dramatically worse overnight - it is the software that is the issue.

A couple of things spring to mind when reading this thread:

- The OP is immediately unaware why he is wrong (he/she has needed to come to this forum and read through lengthy posts, including a tactical dissection by one of the most experienced users on this forum)

- The OP, after being made aware why it is wrong, is unable to reconcile the fix to his/her thinking ("It worked before, why not now?")

One good tip for software design is to never break a user's previous understanding. The OP has suffered from this, and therefore is arguably a software usability flaw.

I don't think software should become "more tricky" over time. I think software should become more "deep", but this does not mean more "tricky". New features and improved features should add more depth, rather than obstacles. New features and improved features should improve the user's experience, not frustrate them (more). If a new feature does not do either of these properly, then that new feature should not be released - that's my view.

I've been of the view that nobody should ever need to visit this forum for help, especially not the tactics forum and its tomes that could be turned into dissertations one day. Visiting this forum should be for users who want to learn more, not about the game. A user should instead learn more about football "in general" and be able to immediately apply this thinking to the game, without having a game layer to translate and understand (i.e. this forum).

Long threads just make things worse for confused users - telling them to "read the stickies" is counter-productive and misses the point.

[Dusty_Manager]

Im so sad and depressed that unlike previous games where i just guessed and used basic tactics to win everything i cant do that with the new one, im not enjoying it and reading what other people are saying it makes me seems crap at the game. Even though i was gd i think at the others. I have wasted time and electricity on the FM series, but it still one of favourite games. The irony.

Pull your tampon out!