Too many good regens from 'average' footballing nations.

[ArsenalFan7]

Here's the best regens in PA order then:

I just don't see how you can defend this? The nation youth PA's quite clearly are not having good influences.

[Some Guy!]

No, you're angry because you're using a small dataset and have a very Eurocentric view point on the matter. Along with this, like many on these forums you seem to think that regens shouldn't be any good and shouldn't compete with current youngsters and players. In a game where regens rarely win World Player of the year before the 2020s this is a very hard argument to agree with.

I also fear for people who complain that there is one good player from a small nation, like with the Estonian player there. Its one player, a bolt out of the blue. I'd be worried if that didn't happen.

To be clearer here a lot of these posts are from very early in the game, the oldest regen I saw in one of the posts was 22 with the mean age around 19 or 20. That is not a very large dataset and says very little on its own. In fact 20 years on a single save should say very little, but that's a different point. TPGs post is a much better example than your own ArsenalFan7. His list of top players there seem very realistic actually and I could see that happening.

I'd also point out that Spain haven't been that great historically and France and such have very little on the likes of Argentina and Brazil, who by the way pump out talented players this version.

You have this obsession with the Libyans, you got what... One or two good Libyan... OH NOES!!! Beyond the fact its statistically insignificant I don't really see the problem. Every once and a while there is a flurry of good players from smaller nations making them better for a time. Some nations also rise and fall in time, but neither of these have been adequately handled in previous games with the game instead basically making it such that France and Spain dominated in terms of quality youngsters. SI pegs this back and suddenly you call it a mistake. There is a lot of work to be done on their part, but there is nothing particularly wrong here.

More importantly I think the game need to have dynamic nations in the future. As mentioned the game doesn't handle this at all and situations such as the fall of Hungary (once one of the best sides on the planet) and the rise and fall of Uruguay are handled extremely poorly. Not to mention the rise of smaller nations in Eastern Europe. I mean who the hell would think that having 10 quality Croatian regens would have been okay 10-15 years ago?

Anyhow... Also, I'll just mention my own figures from this version:

In 2018 the Top 5 regens are from:

Nigeria

Argentina

Holland

Burkina Faso

Brazil

They are all still young though. The oldest regen is 25 and the median is 20. In terms of players with PA over 170 (153 players in total):

France - 28

Argentina - 27

Brazil - 17

Italy - 13

Holland - 11

Spain - 10

Cameroon - 6

England - 5

Germany - 4

Nigeria - 3

Egypt - 3

DR Congo - 3

Mozambique - 2

Burkina Faso - 2

Cote d'Ivoire - 2

Mali - 2

Belarus, Cape Verde, Ghana, Japan, Mexico, Morocco, New Zealand, Portugal, Senegal, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Turkey, USA, Uruguay and Wales - 1

The most unusual thing here is that Mexico and Portugal have only produced one player each. Burkina Faso, Mozambique and the DRC have produced a few players as well, which whilst unusual isn't unrealistic. There's no reason why these players wouldn't be produced there.

So, let's compare this to the original database then (218 players with PA 170+):

Brazil - 27

Spain - 22

France - 22

England - 21

Italy - 18

Argentina - 18

Germany - 13

Portugal - 9

Holland - 7

Belgium - 5

Uruguay - 4

Cote d'Ivoire - 4

Croatia - 3

Mexico - 3

Wales - 3

Turkey - 3

Austria, Chile, Czech Republic, Georgia, Ghana, Nigeria, Romania, Russia and Serbia - 2

Cameroon, Colombia, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Japan, Mali, Montenegro, Poland, Slovakia, South Africa, Sweden, Togo, Ukraine - 1

From this we can see that the current numbers from that save aren't so unrealistic. Here we must consider that any country with less than ~5 or so is likely to go through periods of having nobody and some with quite a few. This kind of thing has been seen throughout the footballing world. I mean, what would most people think if they saw a world class regen from Montenegro or Slovakia in the game? That's right, they'd make a thread to whinge about how unrealistic it is, however it does happen!

So, let's compare the above numbers a bit. Firstly there are less 170+ produced from 2011-2018 in my game there there have been from the database. So let's compare these figures as percentages for the biggest nations, that is the ones with above five 170+ players at the start:

Brazil - 12.3% => 11.1%

Spain - 10.1% => 6.54%

France - 10.1% => 18.3%

England - 9.63% => 3.27%

Italy - 8.26% => 8.50%

Argentina - 8.26% => 17.6%

Germany - 5.96% => 2.61%

Portugal - 4.13% => 0.65%

Holland - 3.21% => 7.19%

At this point I'll point out that this is from one game and only gives a quite as to how these numbers are similar, but do shift a bit. Interestingly I can look at this using a different save giving:

Brazil - 12.3% => 16.1%

Spain - 10.1% => 7.14%

France - 10.1% => 19.6%

England - 9.63% => 5.36%

Italy - 8.26% => 6.25%

Argentina - 8.26% => 6.25%

Germany - 5.96% => 5.36%

Portugal - 4.13% => 0.89%

Holland - 3.21% => 5.36%

Showing how much these can change from game to game. So yeah, long story short, its not really a problem and you seem to be overreacting in a massive way. I have a suspicion its because you haven't considered where most players are from, or you're a very Eurocentric thinking, but in any case whilst the values aren't exactly the same as they are to start with, they vary a lot from game to game and there is no real issue here as it currently stands.

[cool]

Your argument doesn't make sense to me at all, especially the part where high PA doesn't mean high CA in the future. How are we to know which regens will become top players? Are you telling me that Spain regens are programmed to develop better? If we assume all regens to develop equally, then obviously the country with most top regens will be better off by odds, even if some don't make it. And the excuse that youngsters may not develop to the top is kind of flawed since the top clubs in the game always snap up the top youngsters eventually so they enjoy top facilities early on.

Looking at the numbers you posted it backs up the threads assumption totally. Of course the numbers will not be exact given different saves, but they will fall within a reasonable range which will average out if you combine many saves together. From your 2 saves you can see that the numbers turned out to be pretty similar in the end.

[Some Guy!]

...and fairly similar to the original numbers. The only difference is that the likes of Slovakia, Togo and Montenegro were replaced by the likes of Sierra Leone, New Zealand and Cape Verde. Just because different nations produced the good players doesn't matter it unrealistic. Montenegro is not exactly a massive talent pool and neither is Togo.

[Nocuous]

Does anyone remember Wynton Rufer from New Zealand? I reckon He'd have been a 170 CA player in his prime.

[cool]

...and fairly similar to the original numbers. The only difference is that the likes of Slovakia, Togo and Montenegro were replaced by the likes of Sierra Leone, New Zealand and Cape Verde. Just because different nations produced the good players doesn't matter it unrealistic. Montenegro is not exactly a massive talent pool and neither is Togo.

Similar to original numbers?? Look at how much Spain, England and Portugal dropped from the original numbers. And this is only from a few short seasons. I have no doubt Spain will be wiped out from the football map after 20 seasons.

[ArsenalFan7]

Looks like the nation PA's have well and truly screwed over some of the big nations, quickly declining there.

[alexyfoot]

A few statistics from my save in 2023:

Players aged 18-26, CA 160-200. In brackets is the respective number in 2011 for CA 150-200 as the overall quality is much lower and it gives a better chance of observing the changes in terms of countries:

Argentina: 141 (9)

Australia: 2(0)

Belgium: 3(5)

Brazil: 154(22)

Bulgaria: 0(0)

Cameroon: 5(1)

Chile: 3(3)

Colombia: 1(1)

Croatia: 5(2)

Czech Republic: 8(0)

Denmark: 2(1)

DR Congo: 4(1)

Ecuador: 1(1)

Egypt: 6(0)

England: 4(8)

France (first nationality): 54(13)

Germany: 12(12)

Ghana: 3(3)

Greece:5(0)

Holland (first nationality): 17(3)

Hungary: 0(1)

Ireland: 0

Israel: 1(0)

Italy (first nationality): 12(7)

Ivory Coast: 2(3)

Japan: 1(1)

Mali: 2(1)

Mexico: 26(1)

Montenegro: 0(1)

Morocco: 8(0)

New Zealand: 0 (0)

Nigeria: 8(2)

Norway: 0(0)

Paraguay: 1(1)

Peru: 1(1)

Portugal: 22(4)

Romania: 4(0)

Russia: 7(1)

Scotland: 2(0)

Senegal: 8(2)

Serbia: 3(1)

Slovakia: 3(1)

Slovenia:1(1)

South Africa: 2(0)

South Korea: 1(1)

Spain (first Nationality): 16(17)

Sweden: 2(0)

Switzerland: 3(2)

Tunisia: 4(1)

Turkey: 19(3)

Ukraine: 2(0)

USA: 6(0)

Uruguay: 4(3)

Venezuela: 1(0)

Wales: 1(1)

EDIT: Nations re-highlighted to show where the major differences occur, it is accepted that the initial version is close to reality. Small deviations are accepted, but in some cases they are enormous!

Quite a few surprises there! I am not British and no need to defend the country's reputation, but 3...come on? SI!?!?! Brazil: 154!?!?!?! Seriously?!?

[ArsenalFan7]

I hope someone from SI seriously looks at these nation youth PA's then.

Turkey, Mexico etc completely overrated whilst some of the big nations aren't as good as they should be.

[alexyfoot]

Don't know about the PA, but the number of players and the country ratios in terms of reaching high CAs is absolute rubbish right now.

[SCIAG]

Alexy, any chance of a comparison with the original db? Looks to me like Brazil, Argentina, France and Mexico have increased by a stupid amount, Turkey have increased quite a lot and Spain and England (and to some extent Germany) have dropped a lot.

[alexyfoot]

***************

[alexyfoot]

Edited post #59 with data.

All that is on top of the overall pts basis increase - using the same amount of players I get the same amount of players with 137-200 CA in 2011 (513) as the number of players with 160-200 CA in 2023 (533).

[aderow]

BTW I really doubt US soccer will get better as long as they'll be keeping their NFL-like structure...

College soccer, drafts, convoluted roster/contract rules, semi-rigid league system, franchises instead of clubs... USA may as well have 2 billions people available and they'd still fail to become a football powerhouse.

And speaking of quantity =/= quality, it shouldn't matter how big the population of a country is... talent is not a matter of "1 every N", the Chinese sport-factory system doesn't apply to football because class isn't something you can learn by iteration... Therefore there's no correlation between a country population and the chance of generating the next Messi.

Some countries have a bigger tradition, better facilities and the right "environment" to churn out awesome football players every single decade. Some batches will be better, some will disappoint, but all in all the landscape of the Top football scene hasn't changed much since the mid-50s, hasn't it?

As far as youth development in US is concerned, things are changing. Clubs have youth academies and they putting them to good use as nowadays a good amount of 16/17 yr olds are getting first team football. At least a couple did this past season.

As far as FM is concerned, the randomness in which newgens are generated has always perplexed me. But I've never put too much thought to it. I just sign em wherever they show, develop em, and continue to win trophies

[THOG]

How are we to know which regens will become top players? Are you telling me that Spain regens are programmed to develop better?

Almost every country has a personality template that determines the likely personality attributes of their regens. Prior experiments regarding regen development have shown that attributes like Ambition and Professionalism greatly affect the likelihood of a regen reaching a playable CA.

So based on personality templates, Germany, Argentina, Portugal and Italy have the highest probability of turning any given high PA regen into a high CA regen. Brazilian regens have a lower-than-average chance for a big footballing nation but this is offset (to an extreme) by the fact that their youth output is 11% better than the next best country (i.e., Argentina). Countries like Turkey, USA and China should produce players with very low ambition (supposedly to reflect the influence of their culture) so, ideally, despite producing a lot of high PA regens, few of them should ever develop to be much more than just decent players.

However, I suspect that regen output was probably optimized for a smallish database and playing with 40,000+ players (or in my case, 100,000 players) will result in an exponential increase in the number of high quality regens over time.

BTW I really doubt US soccer will get better as long as they'll be keeping their NFL-like structure...

I doubt MLS will ever be much better than a low level European league, but I do think the general US youth output will greatly improve for the reasons stated above. In most cases, given the increasing reach of top level scouting networks, the best American youths will be picked up by European clubs before they even enter the US college system.

EDIT: And in many cases, I suspect, that will result in losing some Americans to other international teams. The U.S. already lost two world class American players (Giusseppi Rossi and Neven Subotic) this generation.

[alexyfoot]

Final Edition (after a million logic mistakes and typos):

As after I posted my previous comparison I realized that CA 137 (2011)=160 (2023), I decided to compare the numbers between this two CA numbers on top of the previous comparison of 150 and 160 just to see if this ratio shows any different values. 2023 is first number, 2011 is in brackets (only 18-26 YOs):

Argentina: 102 (34)

Australia: 2(0)

Belgium: 3(12)

Brazil: 154(68)

Bulgaria: 0(1)

Cameroon: 5(4)

Chile: 3(6)

Colombia: 1(11)

Croatia: 5(10)

Czech Republic: 8(1)

Denmark: 2(4)

DR Congo: 4(0)

Ecuador: 1(5)

Egypt: 6(1)

England: 4(24)

France (first nationality): 54(38)

Germany: 12(39)

Ghana: 3(6)

Greece:5(3)

Holland (first nationality): 17(11)

Hungary: 0(1)

Ireland: 0(2)

Israel: 1(2)

Italy (first nationality): 12(23)

Ivory Coast: 2(5)

Japan: 1(4)

Mali: 2(3)

Mexico: 26(5)

Montenegro: 0(2)

Morocco: 8(4)

New Zealand: 0 (0)

Nigeria: 8(5)

Norway: 0(2)

Paraguay: 1(3)

Peru: 1(1)

Portugal: 22(13)

Romania: 4(2)

Russia: 7(5)

Scotland: 2(3)

Senegal: 8(6)

Serbia: 3(8)

Slovakia: 3(3)

Slovenia:1(4)

South Africa: 2(1)

South Korea: 1(2)

Spain (first Nationality): 16(62)

Sweden: 2(2)

Switzerland: 3(9)

Tunisia: 4(1)

Turkey: 19(7)

Ukraine: 2(5)

USA: 6(1)

Uruguay: 4(12)

Venezuela: 1(1)

Wales: 1(4)

I think this is more accurate than my above comparison as it uses roughly the same size pool, so the country variations are easier to observe!

Personal conclusion:

Overpowered - Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Portugal, Turkey, Egypt, Czech Republic, Holland, Morocco, Tunisia, France.

Relatively Underpowered - Belgium, Colombia, Croatia, Ecuador, England, Congo, Germany, Italy, Serbia, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, Uruguay, Slovenia, Wales, Japan, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Chile.

I am saying relatively underpowered as I am comparing 137 and 160 CA just to use the same players pool in terms of numbers. In fact some of the Relatively Underpowered would be OK if the game wasn't overpowering newgens as a whole, but the ones that are overpowered are TRULY overpowered.

[THOG]

alexy, how many players overall did you load in your initial database? Also, which nations did you set to playable?

Generally, I've found that playable nations tend to produce more failed regens while view-only and inactive nations tend to produce more regens with a high initial CA.

[Fredric Drum]

In 2031 in my game, largest database, the following nations have regens with PA 170+ a and up to 30 years old:

Argentina: 52

Austria: 1

Belgium: 3

Benin: 1

Bosnia: 1

Brazil: 52

Burkina Faso: 1

Cameroon: 4

Central African Republic: 1

Croatia: 5

Czech Republic: 4

England: 19

Equatorial Guinea: 1

France: 33

Gabon 1:

Germany: 19

Ghana: 2

Greece: 2

Guinea: 1

Guinea-Bissau: 1

Holland: 6

Italy: 27

Ivory Coast: 7

Kenya: 1

Mexico: 3

Nigeria: 7

Norway: 2

Peru: 1

Poland: 2

Portugal: 5

Romania: 1

Russia: 1

Scotland: 1

Senegal: 2

Serbia: 2

Slovakia: 2

Slovenia: 2

South Africa: 1

South Korea: 1

Spain: 18

Switzerland: 2

The Congo: 1

Turkey: 6

Ukraine: 1

UAE: 1

USA: 1

Uruguay: 3

Wales: 3

[alexyfoot]

42000 - Top two divisions from England, Spain, Italy and Germany. + All players with National Reputation worldwide. Most overpowered regens come from Mexico/Argentina/Brazil which were not loaded. You might be right, non of the loaded countries can be classed as overpowered, in fact all 4 I class as relatively underpowered. But then how do we explain Colombia, Serbia, Uruguay, etc...The massive increases appear in Brazil, Argentina, Mexico...they already produce massive amounts of talent so why make them even better (I personally can't see the "developing" country reason valid here - all of them are already developed in terms of football countries).

And the reason you gave yourself I'd consider a bug anyway...this shouldn't happen just look at the numbers...the national teams of the top 4 EU countries are not going to be competitive this way which is rubbish.

Btw the figures are for CA 160+, does the db generate higher CA players? I mean if I was comparing 130+ regens your argument would be even more correct but my figures are for 160 CA in 2023...don't know, I'd like some sort of explanation from the developers as I am getting confused.

[alexyfoot]

Fredric: what leagues do you have loaded as active?

[Fredric Drum]

Italy, England, France, Spain.

[alexyfoot]

Hm, you are getting more balanced active country newgens than me then...With me they pretty much s**k for now, especially in England where the situation is terrible - 4 18-26 with CA 160... (and relative to the other top countries they are not even world class 176, 177, 180, 166 while brazil has 9 with 180 or better)

[hehehemann]

Why dont you lot just edit the values for youth/regens in the editor before you start`a game? A lot of this seems to tie in with the high value for places like egypt and mexico, edit these in the editor before your game and it should even things out better, try boosting the netherlands and a few others, I think its just down to poor database management. I bet with so many people doing the research the balance has been lost.

[alexyfoot]

Obviously I will change it before I start a new game lol, that doesn't mean SI shouldn't take notice to do the same if they find they agree with us.

Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of the issue before starting my current game, so I think I will reedit all of them and start all over again as right now it is not even close to being realistic

[ArsenalFan7]

So in conclusion it's an issue with the National Youth PA's with some big nations falling, some rising far too high and then nations like Turkey completely overachieving in regen quality.

I hope these values are looked at by SI

[milnerpoint]

One very important thing that doesnt seem to have been considered here is how well have the nations done in these years, because that will also change the quality of players coming through from each nation, in my game Scotland is now producing more good youngsters because the nation is up to 7th in the world. Changing the starting database is fine, but unless those nations stay in the exact same place co-eff speaking then i dont see the point.

[endtime]

Or maybe Scotland moved up to 7th in the world because they started to produce overpowered newgens.

Also someone should really have a word with the Mexican researchers, because Mexico has been producing outrageous newgens for a few FMs now.

[alexyfoot]

In my opinion Scotland's Youth Rating was a bit higher than it should be. It wasn't far off but it was a bit higher than it should in my opinion.

[milnerpoint]

Or maybe Scotland moved up to 7th in the world because they started to produce overpowered newgens.

I manage in Scotland, the regens only started appearing after the nations co-eff improved.

[scott MUFC]

the main problem with scotland is queens park, it uses hampden park, if you are managing a team, of say league 1 or lower. go a season or so, then do a player search in age order, rating and keep the filter on for unrealist transfers (so filters out all PROPER REGENS from the main clubs) and see how many are 5-4 star to you. as east stirling i found 3 at queens park alone. granted they are not world beaters. BUT it would give scotland an extra road to creating a newgen, especialy as hampden park is the national stadium and would also have the best facilities, whereas most national teams with national stadia do not have a team allocated to them.

you have the SPL facilites AND the national stadium producing these players. which might be the issue if a team in SD3 is developing newgens, does the game balance this out by doing the same for the clubs in there? if so that could increase the production.

as for the other countries.

france germany and spain seem to produce loads.

in my united save i have signed a few newgens from spain/germany and a couple of french, same with man city.

[milnerpoint]

Just looked, in 15 seasons they have produced 1 player who has gone onto make an international appearance. Every other player they have sold has either retired, or plays very low league football. Queens Park have a good youth recruitment rating because of the set up and the area they are in, but they will always lose out on the better players to the bigger clubs around them. They certainly have not produced any players i would chase after at any point.

[jb10billion]

Why dont you lot just edit the values for youth/regens in the editor before you start`a game? A lot of this seems to tie in with the high value for places like egypt and mexico, edit these in the editor before your game and it should even things out better, try boosting the netherlands and a few others, I think its just down to poor database management. I bet with so many people doing the research the balance has been lost.

I've done this because it was doing my head in so many coming from Egypt & Mexico, etc. I increased a few and decreased a few others to what I think is a bit more realistic. IMO anyway. Not played a season yet though so can't comment on the outcome.

[Thomasmc135]

The best player in my previous save was from Swaziland.

[hehehemann]

I've done this because it was doing my head in so many coming from Egypt & Mexico, etc. I increased a few and decreased a few others to what I think is a bit more realistic. IMO anyway. Not played a season yet though so can't comment on the outcome.

Thats good, could you run through a holiday game over a few seasons and let us know if it has any effect? I will do one too but cant until weekend once I get the new pc parts. Thanks, keep us updated

[alexyfoot]

Thats good, could you run through a holiday game over a few seasons and let us know if it has any effect? I will do one too but cant until weekend once I get the new pc parts. Thanks, keep us updated

I am doing a holiday to 2023 again with changed values for the overpowered countries and a few of the other ones (couldn't bother changing Antiguas and Barbudas, lol). Will report back later today if it fixes the issue.

[looknohands]

If anyone has the time, it may be worth it to not only do a holiday save to check out the CA/PA values of these newgens, but to also see if any of these players are developing anywhere near their max PA. If, for example, the US newgens all seem to top out around the 140-150 range, then their PA ratings really don't matter in the long run. SI may have other features at play that prevent these souped-up newgens from becoming legendary players.

[alexyfoot]

There are 6 with CA>160 in 2023 in my save, but it isn't problem with USA but a problem with inactive leagues producing extremely good talent. If you have USA active you won't see such results (refer to the other thread on the topic).

[hehehemann]

any news on the holiday games?

[alexyfoot]

any news on the holiday games?

Refer to Regens are too good thread.

[Koki]

If anyone has the time, it may be worth it to not only do a holiday save to check out the CA/PA values of these newgens, but to also see if any of these players are developing anywhere near their max PA. If, for example, the US newgens all seem to top out around the 140-150 range, then their PA ratings really don't matter in the long run. SI may have other features at play that prevent these souped-up newgens from becoming legendary players.

The problem are not only legendary players but also too many good (midtable-club) players. So players with a CA of 140-150 are also a problem. Since I won't go back to my save anyway, I looked at the CA of my players and I think it is safe to say that a human manager can win the league in a country like England/Spain/Germany with CA 140-150 players easily.

[looknohands]

In that case, though, you have to look at the number of US players currently playing for mid-table club teams and compare that with ten or fifteen years ago, then compare it with the save game to see if it's following any sort of logical trajectory.

[Cougar2010]

There is something that has been ignored in this thread which will skew all the data:

Newgens aren't all "born" in their country of nationality.

[THOG]

There is something that has been ignored in this thread which will skew all the data:

Newgens aren't all "born" in their country of nationality.

But that is a function of the youth recruitment scope of a club. When a club has a global youth recruitment reach, it is simply able to draw from every country's youth output (which will be inflated for inactive nations). The foreign newgens showing up at Manchester United, for example, aren't considered part of the English youth output.

Regardless, in my test save, most of the inactive country CA inflation was happening internally, so, for example, the sudden surge of world class Iranians were first showing up at Iranian clubs.

[alexyfoot]

Cougar - all data I have provided in both threads is for the country of origin and not counting his dual nationality. So no, it isn't a factor.

[Cougar2010]

But that is a function of the youth recruitment scope of a club. When a club has a global youth recruitment reach, it is simply able to draw from every country's youth output (which will be inflated for inactive nations). The foreign newgens showing up at Manchester United, for example, aren't considered part of the English youth output.

I don't believe thats the case unless something has changed on FM12.

Any links to threads suggesting otherwise?

Personally my understanding was Man Utds youth intake's CA/PA is based on the club & country rep with nationality a separate unlinked piece of data added based on a weighted random taking into account the clubs scouting knowledge & staff nationalities.

[milnerpoint]

Yeah i dont think thats how it works, my understanding was the same as Cougars,

[Cougar2010]

Cougar - all data I have provided in both threads is for the country of origin and not counting his dual nationality. So no, it isn't a factor.

Good to know.

Overall though my feeling is the thread is too focused on PA given that a % of players will never reach their PA level. Looking at CA of fully developed newgens would give a better indication but at the end of the day its a very subjective matter. Major clubs have and will continue to expand their scouting networks in real life, this increases the chances of world class players being found in the most unlikeliest of countries (They no doubt existed in the past its just that it was rare for a major club to find and develop them).

Looking at two real life examples:

Spain - Despite their domination now with a generation of talented players this is a country that only qualified for 3/7 World Cups between 1954 & 1978 never making it beyond the group stage. Since then they've become regulars at major tournaments without really making a mark until they won the Euros in 2008. Looking to the future people seem to think they will continue to produce world class players but this is far from guaranteed and I suspect they will decline in the future until another "Golden Generation" arrives (If at all).

Egypt - Three times African Cup winners in 2006, 2008 & 2010 and yet only three of their regular players play outside Egypt. This is the polar opposite of other major African nations such as Ghana, Ivory Coast & Cameroon where most national team players play abroad. Does this mean Egyptian players are better? worse? than other African players. They are probably much the same but I'm sure many users would argue that Egyptian PAs should be lower.

At the end of the day its impossible to know what World Football will look like in 20 years time, the only prediction you can make is that it will be more competitive with good players coming from a much wider group of countries.

[milnerpoint]

thats they way i see it as well, hence why i was rather unmoved by the whole regens being too good thread. There is no way to tell what happens in 20 years and i really hope the guys at SI do not make the game so the only countries that will ever produce good regens are from the present day super powers.

[deejay10]

Remember clubs will improve facilities and I thought leagues reputation was dynamic ?

For example in my Swansea game I invested in youth facilties and over 5 seasons my academy has now produced at least 5 Welsh players with PA > 150, 2 of them with PA > 170. Not even counting the quality Welsh players produced at other British clubs in my game like Everton and Liverpool.

Now Wales are barely an average footballing nation, so things can change over time.

But for example nations like Denmark and Turkey are producing a few too many top young players in my game, and Spain not enough. Only the Barcelona academy is producing players with any regularity.

[Koki]

At the end of the day its impossible to know what World Football will look like in 20 years time, the only prediction you can make is that it will be more competitive with good players coming from a much wider group of countries.

While I agree with you that we cannot foresee the future of football and we will probably see an increase in quality, I want to remind you that it is quite unlikely that every of the following countries Egypt, Morocco, USA and Algeria will have more good young prospects in the next 6 years from within the country than some of the "major" countries like Spain/Italy/Germany (as it happened in my save and the situation is similar in other people's saves).

SI acknowledged that too many good regens are produced in inactive countries, so let's first see how the amount of good regens is after the patch before wasting time in a discussion now