Official Blog Feedback - career mode (aka add/remove leagues)

[TheGulls]

I hate to be the downer on this one as I think this feature is brilliant, but I cannot help feel that this might be the biggest cause of crashes and moans this year. I hope I'm wrong as I wish to use this feature myself and it does sound great.

[Macharius]

I've just been wondering. When we choose a nation to add a the end of a season, does the history of who won what, such as the league itself and domestic cups come with it as to show that the league had some life, even if it was mostly random generated? Or is it say left blank as the example below;

Leagues I picked at the start of the game.

2012

2011

2010

League(s) I added at the end of the season

2012

2010

[phnompenhandy]

I hate to be the downer on this one as I think this feature is brilliant, but I cannot help feel that this might be the biggest cause of crashes and moans this year. I hope I'm wrong as I wish to use this feature myself and it does sound great.

Well SI say they've been testing it for over a year; it could happen with fan-created leagues.

[ommerson]

I absolutely love this new feature. I wonder how it works out.

The blog says FM will let you know when the league is added or dropped, but is this allways at the end/start of the season of that specific league (say 1st of july) or also halfway through (1st of january) or even at certain points during a season?

I would like to 'mis-use' this feature to add lots of leagues at the end of a season and start an "apply to all jobs holiday" to return in july, see what offers I get and turn all but my active league off again. Is that possible or not?

I havent seen any screenshot of this feature though, are there any?

[robertcornell68]

I absolutely love this new feature. I wonder how it works out.

The blog says FM will let you know when the league is added or dropped, but is this allways at the end/start of the season of that specific league (say 1st of july) or also halfway through (1st of january) or even at certain points during a season?

I would like to 'mis-use' this feature to add lots of leagues at the end of a season and start an "apply to all jobs holiday" to return in july, see what offers I get and turn all but my active league off again. Is that possible or not?

I havent seen any screenshot of this feature though, are there any?

My understanding is that this isn't like a light-switch, the leagues are basically activated/deactivated at the next changeover between seasons. In your example you'd be stuck with all the leagues for a year.

[ommerson]

I thought it would be something like you describe robertcornell68. Petty though, would be marvellous if there was a period when the season is over, let's say from june 1st, untill the next pre-season starts again, say july 1st, when you are free to add and remove leagues, just to see If you can get a job in whatever which league, wherever in the world. One month of sluggish processing, but a season of speed and still the chance to manage anywhere. That would really be something..

Still a marvellous feature though, however it works out. I usually aim not to manage in a country I just managed in, so if I can switch that one off, and add another, that would be a great improvement. Not to mention lower league football: I like to start a career at the bottom, but the downside of that is that (for example the english pyramid) the lower you go, the broader the pyramid gets. So when I start out in 9th level, there are more than 8 leagues at that level alone, and there's 20 above that level aswell. And if I want to go about a bit and load a couple of more countries like germany or Italy down to 5th level.. Imagine the increase processing speed if I can switch all but my own current league off.

I wonder what happens when you get promoted and only have your current league loaded (so not the one you get promoted to). I take it you probably get a popup that lets you load the new league and quit the other.

[Kenco]

I wonder what happens when you get promoted and only have your current league loaded (so not the one you get promoted to). I take it you probably get a popup that lets you load the new league and quit the other.

This wouldn't be possible, as the division above your current one will already be loaded. This is the way FM has always worked, you can't load the Championship without also having the Premiership, for example.

[dazzauk123]

why not just start with what you want and run with it???? Seems like a waste of development time to me and an area which will fill up the bugs forum fairly fast. Most people have machines capable of running with 10 leagues or more active at once which is more than enough.

[dazzauk123]

This wouldn't be possible, as the division above your current one will already be loaded. This is the way FM has always worked, you can't load the Championship without also having the Premiership, for example.

Ok what about relegation then???????????

[dazzauk123]

Get some faster kit, Jesus this seems so much overkill to solve a simple problem. Top End PC's are less than £400 quid and will process more than enough leagues to keep a preverbial monkey happy in very quick time, plus if SI spent more time programming so FM used full multi core multi processing and the power of 64 bit processors rather than adding this addhoc fix to the issue everyone would be happy. I have 4 cores running at 2.6ghz with 8gb of ram to back it up, surely can't be that hard to get some bang for your buck. PS3 and Xbox360 are half as powerful as the PC yet they turn games out far far far superior to PC games every year... why?? Cause developers of PC games try to fit everyone into there specs, why not just say look mate if you want the best from the game you need some modern kit!!!

[phnompenhandy]

One thing's for sure - the demo won't give us any clue!

[2Pacalypse]

Get some faster kit, Jesus this seems so much overkill to solve a simple problem. Top End PC's are less than £400 quid and will process more than enough leagues to keep a preverbial monkey happy in very quick time, plus if SI spent more time programming so FM used full multi core multi processing and the power of 64 bit processors rather than adding this addhoc fix to the issue everyone would be happy. I have 4 cores running at 2.6ghz with 8gb of ram to back it up, surely can't be that hard to get some bang for your buck. PS3 and Xbox360 are half as powerful as the PC yet they turn games out far far far superior to PC games every year... why?? Cause developers of PC games try to fit everyone into there specs, why not just say look mate if you want the best from the game you need some modern kit!!!

Money might not be a problem to you, but it is to many of us.

No point in running 10 leagues if the computer runs incredibly slow .. and i, honestly, can't see what exactly do you have against this feature. Unless it turns out horribly executed, there is no place for criticism. It's a great way to ensure people get the best out of the game without sacrificing time and money.

How unreasonable of them, shame on you SI.

[wazza]

Sorry if this has been mentioned anywhere but cant seem to find anything on it.

Will you still be able to see what jobs are available say in all the other countries that are in the leagues not added so you can apply for the job and then add the league.

[Coop]

It sounds like a very complex feature to create. It will be interesting to see how it all works in practice.

Often when I started a game I've loaded up the Scottish and English leagues. After a period of time I want to manage Real or Barca, or perhaps Juventus or Ajax, and have had to start again.

This feature sounds fantastic if it works properly.

[Mons]

Ok what about relegation then???????????

Never had this myself () but I believe the issue has been in FM since time immemorial. If a human manager is relegated from the lowest loaded tier of a nation, he is sacked on the day the seasons change over.

It'll be interesting to see what'll happen if a human manager is relegated from the lowest loaded tier and chooses to load a lower tier when the season is over; whether this is possible or whether he'll still be sacked.

[ommerson]

why not just start with what you want and run with it???? Seems like a waste of development time to me and an area which will fill up the bugs forum fairly fast. Most people have machines capable of running with 10 leagues or more active at once which is more than enough.

Sure, MOST people have machines capable of running 10 leagues, not all. And nice of you to decide how many leagues is 'more than enough'. Havent played any career games have you? Not everyone picks Barca and tries to win 50 championsleagues with them you know. If I want to build a career from the bottom and start out in the Blue Square South for example (that's 7 leagues in one country alone) and also like to get about a bit in the world you get serious processing-time issues on a low key pc. If I have only added Scotland to my 'england-game' I would be on 11 leagues already. I guess career-gamers like myself tend to load far more leagues than the 10 you call enough, probably quadruple that amount. Due to the number of leagues I usually load I can only play about one or two matches an hour, no transfers, training or tactic-tweaking at all, just processing time, team-talks, press conferences and matches..

I'm exited about this feature and think it would make a career-game so much less sluggish.

[x42bn6]

Get some faster kit, Jesus this seems so much overkill to solve a simple problem. Top End PC's are less than £400 quid and will process more than enough leagues to keep a preverbial monkey happy in very quick time

Buying faster components is more overkill! Plus not everyone can afford to buy new components. Unless you want to subsidise...

With career games, people often change their mind or wish to manage elsewhere, without starting a new game. Also, some people want to keep their virtual world intact if there are regens they wish to follow.

This has been a much-demanded feature from the community, rather like DLR was, so it will always be a positive change.

There's no point in saying "SI should do this instead!" - the correct answer is "SI should do both." Don't prioritise SI's time for them - let them worry about that.

[Kenco]

why not just start with what you want and run with it???? Seems like a waste of development time to me and an area which will fill up the bugs forum fairly fast. Most people have machines capable of running with 10 leagues or more active at once which is more than enough.

'More than enough' depends on your point of view. Lots of people in this forum play long-term games and like to have the chance to play in many different countries in their career. The game slows drastically the further you go into it, so the ability to drop a few leagues to speed things up will be very handy indeed.

As it stands, this is probably the best feature of FM12 compared to FM11, assuming it works properly.

[Smurf]

why not just start with what you want and run with it???? Seems like a waste of development time to me and an area which will fill up the bugs forum fairly fast. Most people have machines capable of running with 10 leagues or more active at once which is more than enough.

I'll often start with England, Spain, Italy, as the main leauges and run all divisions. I'll then add in the top tier of France, Germany, Holland, Portugal, Brazil and Argentina.

In some cases, I get offered a job in one of the countries I only have running as top tier. So now I might decide to take that River Plate job in Argentina, disable the France and Portugal leagues, set England to top 3 divisions, Set spain to 2 division, italy to 2 divisions, load up Argentina, Brazil, Mexico (et al leagues) and do a stint in south america for a few season. Hey I might even load up some Japanese leagues, or Chinese and do a stint over there.

Who knows? At least I won't be pigeon holed into only managing in the leagues I started with 40 seasons ago and probably 6 months prior to starting the game.

[mightyshrimper]

Sorry if this has been mentioned anywhere but cant seem to find anything on it.

Will you still be able to see what jobs are available say in all the other countries that are in the leagues not added so you can apply for the job and then add the league.

No, you won't be able to see jobs available in non-added leagues - hence my point further up the thread. A shame.

[ommerson]

That is a real shame indeed, but I can imagine that something like that wo'nt work, imagine the available jobs and managers under pressure of 50 countries. FM can't realisticly keep up with all those clubs without eating precious processing time.

This wouldn't be possible, as the division above your current one will already be loaded. This is the way FM has always worked, you can't load the Championship without also having the Premiership, for example.

Do you mean that when I manage a League 1 club I need the Championship to be loaded, but I can do without the Premiership for a s long as I don't get promoted, or do you mean I need to load the entire english pyramid from Blue Square South upwards if I start out at Dover Athletic? I take it you mean the latter and I wonder if that is true. From Miles' story I understand that single leagues can be loaded and not nescessarily the whole country up to that level. But he's not very specific unfortunately, a example would have been handy in this case, and for me preferably one of lower league management. This is what he says: "Essentially, at any time during the season, you can go to the “add/remove” league, and choose a countries league, or a level of a countries league, and, err, add or remove it. If you add a new league, or a new level to a league (and by that I mean that if you’d started a game running just the top division in a country, and wanted to add the next level down should it be available in the game), it tells you the date that the league will become active, which tends to be a few weeks in game before the league is due to start." and "Taking leagues away is also easy, so if you aren’t happy with the speed of your game, you can remove a countries league, or just a level of the league."

He doesn't say clearly if one will be able to load only the lower leagues of a certain country, or drop a league higher up the pyramid. He only gives an example of the top division and the removal of a league below that unfortunately.

My hope is that when I start out a game, usually unemployed with lowest possible experience, I'll be able to only load the lower leagues of the countries I'm interested in managing in. This would save me al lot of luggage processing time for the top leagues I wo'nt be able to manage in for years to come anyway considering my experience. If this is not the case, this feature is less handy than I hoped. Sure, it would be a welcome feature in my current career, where I have a ******** of countries loaded (like Turkey, Ukraine and Greece), but haven't got the slightest chance of ever getting a job there while I'm stuck in Northern Irish bottom league. Shutting those countries down for the time being would save me a lot of processing time. So handy it is for sure, but shutting down the entire English League when I'm in the Blue Square North and League2 is still far away would be a real timesaver though.

I hope SI can clarify some of these uncertainties, maybe by showing us some screenshots of this feature or give examples of some scenario's.

[Bobby_Zamora]

For anyone who plays long saves, this is one of the best (if not the best) features ever. Takes away the boredom of playing in, say, Sweden for 60 seasons. After a few seasons you start dominating and, personally, I was often bored and waiting anxiously for the champions league. Now I can move to other countries and have more fun

Whoever said about "just buy a new computer", please. Are you serious? I play on my laptop and I only have one nation loaded whenever I play to speed up processing time. Now I get the option to switch nations and play a different game within the same save. It's freaking awesome.

Oh, I think leagues are added when the season changes, you automatically have to load all leagues above you when you are playing a lower division. Nothing new there. And you would probably get the sack before season end if you get relegated and there's no league below loaded. So these two things wont be an issue.

[Kenco]

That is a real shame indeed, but I can imagine that something like that wo'nt work, imagine the available jobs and managers under pressure of 50 countries. FM can't realisticly keep up with all those clubs without eating precious processing time.

Do you mean that when I manage a League 1 club I need the Championship to be loaded, but I can do without the Premiership for a s long as I don't get promoted, or do you mean I need to load the entire english pyramid from Blue Square South upwards if I start out at Dover Athletic? I take it you mean the latter and I wonder if that is true. From Miles' story I understand that single leagues can be loaded and not nescessarily the whole country up to that level. But he's not very specific unfortunately, a example would have been handy in this case, and for me preferably one of lower league management. This is what he says: "Essentially, at any time during the season, you can go to the “add/remove” league, and choose a countries league, or a level of a countries league, and, err, add or remove it. If you add a new league, or a new level to a league (and by that I mean that if you’d started a game running just the top division in a country, and wanted to add the next level down should it be available in the game), it tells you the date that the league will become active, which tends to be a few weeks in game before the league is due to start." and "Taking leagues away is also easy, so if you aren’t happy with the speed of your game, you can remove a countries league, or just a level of the league."

He doesn't say clearly if one will be able to load only the lower leagues of a certain country, or drop a league higher up the pyramid. He only gives an example of the top division and the removal of a league below that unfortunately.

My hope is that when I start out a game, usually unemployed with lowest possible experience, I'll be able to only load the lower leagues of the countries I'm interested in managing in. This would save me al lot of luggage processing time for the top leagues I wo'nt be able to manage in for years to come anyway considering my experience. If this is not the case, this feature is less handy than I hoped. Sure, it would be a welcome feature in my current career, where I have a ******** of countries loaded (like Turkey, Ukraine and Greece), but haven't got the slightest chance of ever getting a job there while I'm stuck in Northern Irish bottom league. Shutting those countries down for the time being would save me a lot of processing time. So handy it is for sure, but shutting down the entire English League when I'm in the Blue Square North and League2 is still far away would be a real timesaver though.

I hope SI can clarify some of these uncertainties, maybe by showing us some screenshots of this feature or give examples of some scenario's.

It's always been the case that you load from the top division down, so if you want to play in England, the Premier League must be loaded.

I don't think they will change it so you can just select League 1 without the higher divisions being selected. But I can't say for sure they won't do this.

[karanhsingh]

So I'm hoping to continue with my demo save because I'm really enjoying it. My question is about effectively growing the database size. If I add more leagues I guess players would get added as well. But to really grow the database I'll have to add tons of leagues.

When I remove these leagues later, will the players disappear as well?

[phnompenhandy]

So I'm hoping to continue with my demo save because I'm really enjoying it. My question is about effectively growing the database size. If I add more leagues I guess players would get added as well. But to really grow the database I'll have to add tons of leagues.

When I remove these leagues later, will the players disappear as well?

I think that's the idea - when you remove a league you remove all the players currently in that league. That way you fre up space to add a different league + players.

What I assume but am not 100% clear about is if you continue your demo save with small database, when you add a new league, will that league include fewer players than if you started a game with a large database. I say yes, but I'd like confirmation.

[Peljam]

Get some faster kit, Jesus this seems so much overkill to solve a simple problem. Top End PC's are less than £400 quid and will process more than enough leagues to keep a preverbial monkey happy in very quick time, plus if SI spent more time programming so FM used full multi core multi processing and the power of 64 bit processors rather than adding this addhoc fix to the issue everyone would be happy. I have 4 cores running at 2.6ghz with 8gb of ram to back it up, surely can't be that hard to get some bang for your buck. PS3 and Xbox360 are half as powerful as the PC yet they turn games out far far far superior to PC games every year... why?? Cause developers of PC games try to fit everyone into there specs, why not just say look mate if you want the best from the game you need some modern kit!!!

1) Money and kit is different for everyone. Some can afford what you're saying, some can't. And for many buying an entirely new PC, or set of components is overkill. Especially if it is just for one game, which it might be for many.

2) It's not all about processing speed. There are more powerful games out there but I've yet to spend as much time on one, or invest in a series, as much as I have FM.

It's about options and the depth of the game. At the moment if you're playing a general career game you have to comprise on the depth and options in your game. You have to make judgements and compromises as to what leagues are always going to be tempting (top to bottom, across the entire career). For example I'd like to load the Australian league and have a go there but in a long term career I'll outgrow it if I start in it, or if I progress to fast in other leagues it becomes a step down (which might be fine in some careers)

But ultimately it means you have to weigh up whether you want to include a league that you might only play for a limited amount of seasons or not at all. And once it's done, regardless of how awesome your computer is, you'd still have a rock hanging around the neck of your computers' efficiency because of a spare and largely unused option.

With the new add/remove option you don't have to do that. You have the freedom to play the career game you want. No more getting 20+ seasons in and feeling trapped. No more having to start again for a new challenge.

3) I don't have the mutli-core magic that you seem to have and think we all should have. Why would *I* want SI wasting their time on that option?

Kidding aside, I don't see why there's any reason why SI can't do both. It just takes time. So they've given us the option that helps more people in the mean time.

I think it's a great idea. Always wanted it since FM05. Now there's no reason why a single save of mine couldn't last till FM13.

[samdiatmh]

are you only allowed to select leagues at the end of their season?

what if you don't load any players (ie continue demo save) and then decide to load the Brazilian league (where there are few players) will the real players then be loaded?

@Peljam - FM is one of only 3 PC games that i get (F1 iterations and ProCyclingManager iterations are the other 2), so buying a brand new PC just for 3 games isn't worth it (although FM is one of the lower-spec games around, relatively)

[Peljam]

are you only allowed to select leagues at the end of their season?

what if you don't load any players (ie continue demo save) and then decide to load the Brazilian league (where there are few players) will the real players then be loaded?

@Peljam - FM is one of only 3 PC games that i get (F1 iterations and ProCyclingManager iterations are the other 2), so buying a brand new PC just for 3 games isn't worth it (although FM is one of the lower-spec games around, relatively)

Exactly. I'm in a fairly similar position. FM is the main game I still play. I have a few extra here and there but not enough that it's worth me buying a brand new computer like dazzauk123 suggests.

Re: your question. I think it's a case of you can select/deselect leagues at any point in the season but the actual adding or removal won't occur until the end season/pre-season.

[Icy]

I think that's the idea - when you remove a league you remove all the players currently in that league. That way you fre up space to add a different league + players.

What I assume but am not 100% clear about is if you continue your demo save with small database, when you add a new league, will that league include fewer players than if you started a game with a large database. I say yes, but I'd like confirmation.

I would like a confirmation about this too.

I know that the original database size won't change if you add more leagues in the future but does it mean that the database will be still "small" but having more players or that the total number of players won't change at all?

To make it more clear, in this sample, what is right, a or b or is there a c?

Sample: I load a small database and only Englad, let's say i have 6000 players in the db. If after 1 year I add all the playable leagues from Spain, France, Germany and Italy...

a) The database grows in number of players, adding more players to each new playable league, so let's say the final database ends with 15000 players for example (like if I started a game with all those leagues with an small database).

b) The database size is still of 6000 players, but some that where greyed out from those new leagues, will become active.