Nothing important new in FM since 2007...at least!

[roykela]

The aqueduct?!

[Tihinen]

Yeah I haven't had any pressure problems either to be honest. There is a certain sentence that's used a lot on these forums, but I'm afraid to use it as most people have become rather hateful towards it. It starts with: "It's your....."

Okay, I'll get my coat

I use 3-4-1-2- since FM 1492 a.D. In every version of FM I have tried (succeeding) to set my tactic at it best. Every single player of my 11 do what I ask them to do, except for my CS/CD (Left/Right Midfielder) since FM2009 (except after the last patch of FM2009). I have tried it in all the way but it doesn't work.

I am not talking about pressing in 4 4 2, 5 3 2, 4 3 3 or all the other schemes, I am talking about 3 4 1 2, like the mine. No others.

[Lankylars]

I use 3-4-1-2- since FM 1492 a.D.

Was 1492 the year FM switched from the abacus to text commentary?

[rancer890]

No new big things?

Really?

Newgens.

Dynamic League Rep.

3D Match Engine.

New Match Engine.

Competitions Creator and Editor

Analysis section on match screen

press conference.

Much MUCH better player interaction

New training modules

Tactics creator

More leagues to play in

Larger database of players

I suppose for me those are the BIG things. But there are so many extra little things that make this game so much better than those before it. And before anyone says anything, I'm not an SI fanboi. I hated FM07, FM09 and FM10. I thought they were shocking games. FM11 however, is a massive step up, and if you're too blind to see any major improvements, perhaps you should go and play EA Manager, so you can buy a house and a car, or something.

This basically.

To the OP, did you play FM08-11 at all? I don't mind complaining but at least back up your facts.

As for FM becoming too serious, let me ask you (and everyone) a question: Do you want fun or do you want realism? Because realism doesn't necessarily mean fun, and vice versa. Which one do you want? Because overall FM11 is more realistic than FM07. And don't start picking out the transfer bugs and what not. Overall FM11 is the better game.

SI can't please anyone these days...

[Tihinen]

Was 1492 the year FM switched from the abacus to text commentary?

No, you're wrong. That was 1523 a.D.

In 1492 a.D. MLS was included for the first time in the game. And also AmericanIndian League Soccer. But it was quickly deleted with the patch 2.0

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

No new big things?

Really?

Newgens. - Were there in 07

Dynamic League Rep. - I said that was new....only because users suggested it - and hardly a revolutionary idea

3D Match Engine. - New but terrible, again as I said, I never use it, 2D is fine. Player movement in 3D is shocking.

New Match Engine. - ? Hardly a new 'feature'. They try to improve it, whether they do or not is a matter of opinion.

Competitions Creator and Editor - Editor isn't new, I managed to update in 07 and still do, it's very easy.

Analysis section on match screen - There is nothing in 11 that I can't analyse in 07, it's just a matter of clicking the mouse rather than the game doing it, the info is there if you bother to look...

press conference. - Yep in there in 07

Much MUCH better player interaction - In there in 07, was better then than it is now as it is shocking in this version.

New training modules - What new modules? I can create def, mid and att on my own thanks, not hard.

Tactics creator - Again, if you read what I said originally, this creator is just set positions on the sliders only defined by SI and given a name, hence hiding the sliders, I am competent enough to do this on my own, so yes - in 07..

More leagues to play in - You already said that about competition editor...

Larger database of players - Hmmmm really? I can use editor to do that on my own rather than pay 30 quid for it.

Basically they are just redressing the info and making it easier for the users i.e. tactics creator, defined training def, mid etc - These are not new!

[Lankylars]

No, you're wrong. That was 1523 a.D.

In 1492 a.D. MLS was included for the first time in the game. And also AmericanIndian League Soccer. But it was quickly deleted with the patch 2.0

Ah my mistake. It's hard keeping track of a few hundred iterations of this game!

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

I would have said voicing an opinion is fine; but outright slating is neither constructive nor helpful. I would also have asked you to show me where in the original post you believe there to be anything constructive or helpful towards improving the game.

However, I notice you have generally conceded these points in your later postings.

I told them to sort the glaring problems which have been in the game for years, team talks etc and all the other things I mentioned.....constructive advice?

[KUBI]

FM2007 is history, as CM01/02 is. Both version very good games - in their time.

It's not the big new features that are the most important part, as a football game can't invent football new, it's the hundreds small new features, options, additions that makes FM2011 way the better game than FM2007 was.

I know a lot of people talking about the best CM/FM and meaning that they did have the best saves with one of the versions, but if you just compare the match engine of FM2007 and FM2011 it's like black and white tv and High definition. Some people will always stick to the past. But I think playing just a day with FM2011 gives you at least the impression of the potential of that game. Of course, it will need another one or two patches, like for every previous release, due to the complexity of the game code.

[rancer890]

Newgens did not exist in FM07. You must be thinking about regens. Did you play FM08 by any chance, because that's the first year newgens were introduced.

Did you encounter an agent and pay him an agent fee in FM07?

If DLR isn't a revolutionary addition to the game, I don't know what you would consider 'revolutionary'.

Give a fair assessment of the game after 2 more patches, because FM07 wasn't perfect out of the box either.

[Kriss]

Nothing important new in football since 1907...at least!

Well not entirely true but I'm sure you'll get my drift:)

[solstar]

The OP is very much mistaken. there has been a lot of changes since FM07 and very important ones. I remember 07 and actually loved the game but many features which used to frustrate me because they weren't present, now are. Its not a perfect game but it will be and tbf it needs time.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

Newgens did not exist in FM07. You must be thinking about regens. Did you play FM08 by any chance, because that's the first year newgens were introduced.

Did you encounter an agent and pay him an agent fee in FM07?

If DLR isn't a revolutionary addition to the game, I don't know what you would consider 'revolutionary'.

Give a fair assessment of the game after 2 more patches, because FM07 wasn't perfect out of the box either.

And the difference between newgens and regens is? Really I don't know so if you could tell me....

I encountered agents yes, on several occasions players agents would say their client wouldnt reveal their terms etc etc...didn't pay fees though, again not a big deal...

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

Nothing important new in football since 1907...at least!

Well not entirely true but I'm sure you'll get my drift:)

Nice to know the mods keep things on topic in here

[NepentheZ]

No new big things?

Really?

Newgens. - Were there in 07

Dynamic League Rep. - I said that was new....only because users suggested it - and hardly a revolutionary idea

3D Match Engine. - New but terrible, again as I said, I never use it, 2D is fine. Player movement in 3D is shocking.

New Match Engine. - ? Hardly a new 'feature'. They try to improve it, whether they do or not is a matter of opinion.

Competitions Creator and Editor - Editor isn't new, I managed to update in 07 and still do, it's very easy.

Analysis section on match screen - There is nothing in 11 that I can't analyse in 07, it's just a matter of clicking the mouse rather than the game doing it, the info is there if you bother to look...

press conference. - Yep in there in 07

Much MUCH better player interaction - In there in 07, was better then than it is now as it is shocking in this version.

New training modules - What new modules? I can create def, mid and att on my own thanks, not hard.

Tactics creator - Again, if you read what I said originally, this creator is just set positions on the sliders only defined by SI and given a name, hence hiding the sliders, I am competent enough to do this on my own, so yes - in 07..

More leagues to play in - You already said that about competition editor...

Larger database of players - Hmmmm really? I can use editor to do that on my own rather than pay 30 quid for it.

Basically they are just redressing the info and making it easier for the users i.e. tactics creator, defined training def, mid etc - These are not new!

You're really missing the point. I'm OK with that. If you're so narrow minded you think this game is just FM07 with FM11 written on the box, then you clearly have absolutely no respect for where the game has gone, and I shall no longer entertain your thread with decent discussion, if you're going to scream bloody murder that they haven't improved or added a single thing.

[Brian Shanahan]

I can agree to that.

It does seem neverending, and annoying at times.

Just wish a lot more would've been more constructive. Not that my posts here now contributes to any constructivtism (is that even a word?).

But i'm also the sort of person that would like people to say something instead of nothing. Sorry about that lol

Constructivism has two definitions here, and here. Let it not be said that I'm not anal retentitive. But on your point, what I hate is the endless rehashing of the same arguements in new threads, and then the constant not listening when there are rebuttals. I know the game is not perfect, but frankly if you were looking at the plethora of threads such as this, you'd think we have a Civ V (*goes into a corner to cry*) level of brokenness, instead of a good solid game, which has areas that need work and bugs that need fixing.

[NepentheZ]

And the difference between newgens and regens is? Really I don't know so if you could tell me....

I encountered agents yes, on several occasions players agents would say their client wouldnt reveal their terms etc etc...didn't pay fees though, again not a big deal...

Regen :

Alan Shearer retires. Alan shearer is reborn as a 16 year old, with a different name, d.o.b and other cosmetic differences, but has the exact same attribute (CA/PA) as alan shearer.

Newgen :

Wayne Rooney Retires. The End.

A new player is born, with completely new attributes, new name, age, fave things, PPM's (Oh, that's another thing added to the game, btw) - etc etc.

Once again, you can scream until you're blue in the face that nothing has changed. But it has.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

You're really missing the point. I'm OK with that. If you're so narrow minded you think this game is just FM07 with FM11 written on the box, then you clearly have absolutely no respect for where the game has gone, and I shall no longer entertain your thread with decent discussion, if you're going to scream bloody murder that they haven't improved or added a single thing.

When did I 'scream bloody murder' (how that phrase is relevant I don't know). I am asking as a consumer for existing issues to be resolved instead of just redressing existing things and saying I am getting a new product! Anyone who knows about computer programming knows that all the 'new' features are just existing ones redressed.

Thanks for being Ok with my missing of the point, I appreciate that....strange really, I thought I was the one making a point?

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

Regen :

Alan Shearer retires. Alan shearer is reborn as a 16 year old, with a different name, d.o.b and other cosmetic differences, but has the exact same attribute (CA/PA) as alan shearer. -

Newgen :

Wayne Rooney Retires. The End.

A new player is born, with completely new attributes, new name, age, fave things, PPM's (Oh, that's another thing added to the game, btw) - etc etc.

Once again, you can scream until you're blue in the face that nothing has changed. But it has.

I have NEVER seen this happen. Ever in any game I have played. I have played games and been thirty seasons in with 'regens' and never seen a duplicated player, or not one I was aware of. The regens are new names to me and are of an ability that makes me notice them from youth where as I haven't noticed them before as experienced players....

Once again, who is screaming? I am discussing, newgens/regens? Hmmm sounds a bit fishy to me..maybe just renamed?

[SmurfDude]

I know what you mean. I bought Super mario galaxy the other day but went back to original Mario bros because I can't handle the complexity of 3D jumping. I'm also thinking of trading my blu-ray player in for a VHS recorder because the vibrant colours confuse me.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

I know what you mean. I bought Super mario galaxy the other day but went back to original Mario bros because I can't handle the complexity of 3D jumping. I'm also thinking of trading my blu-ray player in for a VHS recorder because the vibrant colours confuse me.

Really, I prefer Blu Ray, obviously an improvement. Still I have always thought Nintendo are consoles for the lower end of the market, you know a bit cheaper etc people who can't afford a 360/PS3 of which I have both.

Maybe if you experienced higher end gaming you would appreciate real advancements like Blu Ray...and also be able to see when you are being shafted, like here...

[Andy Anon]

I think he was being sarcastic?

[SCIAG]

Regen :

Alan Shearer retires. Alan shearer is reborn as a 16 year old, with a different name, d.o.b and other cosmetic differences, but has the exact same attribute (CA/PA) as alan shearer.

Newgen :

Wayne Rooney Retires. The End.

A new player is born, with completely new attributes, new name, age, fave things, PPM's (Oh, that's another thing added to the game, btw) - etc etc.

Once again, you can scream until you're blue in the face that nothing has changed. But it has.

PPMs were in FM07, and newgens were already out of date with FM07 (FREDs had taken their place).

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

Regen :

Alan Shearer retires. Alan shearer is reborn as a 16 year old, with a different name, d.o.b and other cosmetic differences, but has the exact same attribute (CA/PA) as alan shearer.

Newgen :

Wayne Rooney Retires. The End.

A new player is born, with completely new attributes, new name, age, fave things, PPM's (Oh, that's another thing added to the game, btw) - etc etc.

Once again, you can scream until you're blue in the face that nothing has changed. But it has.

Also - Just done a search for 50 major players who have retired in my current game on 07 ( twelve seasons in).....not one has been regenerated.....strange that?

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

I think he was being sarcastic?

You don't say? Really?

[Andy Anon]

No, I was joking. You can laugh if you like.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

PPMs were in FM07, and newgens were already out of date with FM07 (FREDs had taken their place).

That's good to know SCIAG. It's very revealing just how many users aren't aware what has been in the game for years...

[NepentheZ]

Also - Just done a search for 50 major players who have retired in my current game on 07 ( twelve seasons in).....not one has been regenerated.....strange that?

Again, you're missing what I'm saying. If you re read my post, you'll notice the part where it says "different name". So it'll be the same player attributes, but everything else will be different.

SCIAG pointed out that they were actually FRED's by this point, and not Regens, but they still weren't Newgens, either. So yeah, Newgens is something pretty massive in the game from FM08 onwards.

As for the phrase, I say it because every single thing that has been offered to you as new, either has been something else redressed, or something not worthy, in your opinion. It's literally like you're not accepting anything as change, and will continue in your thoughts that there is nothing changed.

Quite simply put, your thread title reads "Nothing important new in since FM07... AT LEAST.!" which couldn't be further from the mark. As I said. Some absolutely key changes have been Newgens, 3D match engine (Broke or not, it's important, and it's new. Maybe not important to you, but if we're going to take one mans opinions as gospel for a wealth of people that play the game, then you may as well ban me, because that's not a forum I want to be involved in) - Dynamic League Reputation, and many many other things. No matter how small, that are still important to the evolution of Football Manager. I could literally give you a list of 100 things that have changed since FM07, that have been very very important to ME in the game, even if it's something as tiny as allowing the user to edit the skins in game, without having to edit .xml files, so that we can have the stats lay out on the players selection view however we like it.

It's things like that, that are very important.

[NepentheZ]

That's good to know SCIAG. It's very revealing just how many users aren't aware what has been in the game for years...

Sorry dude, but you're not even aware of the difference between a Regen and a Newgen. So please, come down from that morale high ground. The altitude must be making it hard for you to breathe.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

Sorry dude, but you're not even aware of the difference between a Regen and a Newgen. So please, come down from that morale high ground. The altitude must be making it hard for you to breathe.

Really? I wasn't aware? Maybe you fell in to the trap, maybe not...

As I said, anyone who knows anything about programming will see that everything in the game that is rebranded was already there. Ask one of the SI lot, they'll tell you, it's just a matter of reprogramming the game to make it use the existing information differently, can't you see that? using things differently which are alreay there is NOT something new, you do know that don't you? defining training schedules just so I don't have to is hardly new is it? I would ignore it anyway and do it myself.

In FM07 did you see the option in tactics to be able to define set positions? e.g. you have a winger and you are not sure how to set his sliders, simply click 'set to' winger and it does it for you. The tactics creator is a version of this. Again, not new, just existing stuff redressed. Again can't you see that?

[nev147]

One the face of it you may say what has changed. For me SI strive to improve the game each year and often it seems they have so many good ideas that some have to go on a waiting list as there are so many. For me this years game has maybe had too many new features, but when you play the game you notice not just the big features but other tweaks that often get overlooked or unnoticed. If you do not like the game Leeds or since 2007 then that us your call - but I do disagree that nothing has changed as I feel the opposite is true. Other companies or games would have just introduced DLR (which is a massive feature in its own right) and an updated database as a new game - but SI have gone out on a limb to immerse ourselves as a real life manager as much as possible and hence the game is as realistic as it has ever been. I could spend time saying what has changed in the last two years let alone four.

Just look at the core areas of the game - ME/3D (2D was a massive step back in the day and maybe the 3D step was even bigger) tactic creator/interface, the layout of the game/training/scouting/interaction. In the last two years alone all the main areas of FM has changed and moved with the times - I am not saying the game is faultless as I have been voicing some of my concerns about some areas of FM11 - but the main areas of the game have changed night and day, and that is not to mention all the other smaller areas. Oh and the new editor is pretty massive also. Just like that, for me its easy to forget what SI have changed in recent years as there are so many. SI and FM certainty do not lack creativity/innovation.

[SCIAG]

SCIAG pointed out that they were actually FRED's by this point, and not Regens, but they still weren't Newgens, either. So yeah, Newgens is something pretty massive in the game from FM08 onwards.

The FM07 "regens" were FREDs, which are newgens 2.0. and what we currently have.

Regen- David Beckham comes back as Frank Gerrard, English MRC, born in London, great at free kicks, etc.

Newgen- David Beckham comes back as Sepp Blatter, Swiss centre back born in Bern, low concentration, high pace, etc.

FRED- David Beckham retires along with 278 other players. 523 new players come through academies.

I essentially agree that FM07 and FM11 are very different games. I've gone back to FM07 recently (longed for an old save) and it's amazing how much has changed.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

One the face of it you may say what has changed. For me SI strive to improve the game each year and often it seems they have so many good ideas that some have to go on a waiting list as there are so many. For me this years game has maybe had too many new features, but when you play the game you notice not just the big features but other tweaks that often get overlooked or unnoticed. If you do not like the game Leeds or since 2007 then that us your call - but I do disagree that nothing has changed as I feel the opposite is true. Other companies or games would have just introduced DLR (which is a massive feature in its own right) and an updated database as a new game - but SI have gone out on a limb to immerse ourselves as a real life manager as much as possible and hence the game is as realistic as it has ever been. I could spend time saying what has changed in the last two years let alone four.

Just look at the core areas of the game - ME/3D (2D was a massive step back in the day and maybe the 3D step was even bigger) tactic creator/interface, the layout of the game/training/scouting/interaction. In the last two years alone all the main areas of FM has changed and moved with the times - I am not saying the game is faultless as I have been voicing some of my concerns about some areas of FM11 - but the main areas of the game have changed night and day, and that is not to mention all the other smaller areas. Oh and the new editor is pretty massive also. Just like that, for me its easy to forget what SI have changed in recent years as there are so many. SI and FM certainty do not lack creativity/innovation.

But for me what you have just said only goes to show that the new stuff is just old stuff but shown to us differently/ using a different interface.

Ok 3D and DLR are new but one was suggested so much by users they bowed to pressure so they can't take the credit for that. The other is implemented poorly IMO. The graphics are still terrible in a day and age where that side should be easy - given their experience in 'player movement'.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

The FM07 "regens" were FREDs, which are newgens 2.0. and what we currently have.

Regen- David Beckham comes back as Frank Gerrard, English MRC, born in London, great at free kicks, etc.

Newgen- David Beckham comes back as Sepp Blatter, Swiss centre back born in Bern, low concentration, high pace, etc.

FRED- David Beckham retires along with 278 other players. 523 new players come through academies.

I essentially agree that FM07 and FM11 are very different games. I've gone back to FM07 recently (longed for an old save) and it's amazing how much has changed.

Strange how FM07 still has that appeal isn't it? I think as I said earlier that the fun factor and the speed is a big thing.

Also for me FRED looks like the best option, which are used now and which were used in 07?

[ViG1980]

The FM07 "regens" were FREDs, which are newgens 2.0. and what we currently have.

Regen- David Beckham comes back as Frank Gerrard, English MRC, born in London, great at free kicks, etc.

Newgen- David Beckham comes back as Sepp Blatter, Swiss centre back born in Bern, low concentration, high pace, etc.

FRED- David Beckham retires along with 278 other players. 523 new players come through academies.

I essentially agree that FM07 and FM11 are very different games. I've gone back to FM07 recently (longed for an old save) and it's amazing how much has changed.

So many people harp on about CM01/02 and how great it was. It WAS great back then. I went back and played it just to mess around. It's almost like playing the iPhone version of FM when you compare it to FM11. Simply put, FM11 is light years ahead of CM01/02 in every way except it's bug-freeness and nostalgia plays a huge part in remembering something to be better than it actually was.

It's not ideal but FM11 will be the greatest FM ever within 6 weeks when the patch comes out.

[cynet]

FM07 was always my favourite and im not a fan of the yearly versions we get, take FM08, just dreadful, if anything it was the backward step in the series and FM09 was even worst.

FM10 was ok after the 3rd patch, now FM11 is going to be better once they fix some of the issues and imo will be probably one of the best since FM07 as the me and 3D is a massive improvement over 09 & 10.

As for the press conferences which are repetive and very dull, you do have the option of leaving it to somebody else, but they do need working on if they will have any longetivity for future versions.

I have always had this thought that each year they should be add-ons and maybe every 2 years have a full version with more things added in depth and then a another add-on in between.

[NepentheZ]

Really? I wasn't aware? Maybe you fell in to the trap, maybe not...

As I said, anyone who knows anything about programming will see that everything in the game that is rebranded was already there. Ask one of the SI lot, they'll tell you, it's just a matter of reprogramming the game to make it use the existing information differently, can't you see that? using things differently which are alreay there is NOT something new, you do know that don't you? defining training schedules just so I don't have to is hardly new is it? I would ignore it anyway and do it myself.

In FM07 did you see the option in tactics to be able to define set positions? e.g. you have a winger and you are not sure how to set his sliders, simply click 'set to' winger and it does it for you. The tactics creator is a version of this. Again, not new, just existing stuff redressed. Again can't you see that?

Wow. You really do have your head in the sand. So you're telling me 3D match engine was there in 07? You're telling me Dynamic League Reputation was there in 07? This is why I said you can scream 'till you're blue in the face that nothing has changed, but it has. Even if they have built on something old, and made it better, it's still an improvement. Which is where the debate completely stops. I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. You must be looking for them to completely overhaul the game, every year, but that's just not possible.

Do you get FIFA, and accept that the new passing system is something new? Something major? I think it is, but you'll probably tell me, HEY.! They had passing in the game in FIFA 90, it's nothing new, it's just redressed. You're looking far too hard t see the wood between the trees. Just accept that if you put FM07 in, and FM11 in a computer beside it, you will see a wealth of changes in the game that are VERY important to the evolution of Football Manager. If you really can't see that, then why bother picking up a copy of the game?

Strange how FM07 still has that appeal isn't it? I think as I said earlier that the fun factor and the speed is a big thing.

Also for me FRED looks like the best option, which are used now and which were used in 07?

Newgens are far and away the best option. They are used now, not FREDs.

And I'm sure FM07 does have it's appeal for some people. FM08 has appeal for me, because I have a 60 season save there. Do I think it's a better game than FM11? No. Do I think it's a great game. Yes. So I'll still play it. It's not that I go back to FM08 because I think FM11 is poor. I go back to play it because I enjoy playing it.

That being said, still bearing in mind that there ARE new features that are important to FM, I think FM09 and FM10 were terrible games, and so I didn't play them. However, they still had groundbreaking new features. I'm sorry you can't see that.

[sKyer_xD]

agree with 1st post.

[nev147]

But for me what you have just said only goes to show that the new stuff is just old stuff but shown to us differently/ using a different interface.

Ok 3D and DLR are new but one was suggested so much by users they bowed to pressure so they can't take the credit for that. The other is implemented poorly IMO. The graphics are still terrible in a day and age where that side should be easy - given their experience in 'player movement'.

But the thing about the graphics is not everyone has top of the range computers/specs. And SI know this. The graphics are a visual illustration of the game and the ME. If people want top of the range graphics, then FM is not the game for them. SI have to have a well rounded game, and the 3D was a very good addition and year on year it seems to improve - but they should not go silly with the 3D side of things - as then they are positioning themselves in the incorrect manner for me. The more graphically intensive it becomes the more people will not be able to play the game. And currently the balance seems to be pretty good. A good 3D illustration without going overboard - its not about having the greatest possible 3D picture as that is not what SI do best - it was to make our gaming experience even better and to amerce ourselves in the game and as the manager like IRL. But it is a Football Manager game at the end of the day.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

FM07 was always my favourite and im not a fan of the yearly versions we get, take FM08, just dreadful, if anything it was the backward step in the series and FM09 was even worst.

FM10 was ok after the 3rd patch, now FM11 is going to be better once they fix some of the issues and imo will be probably one of the best since FM07 as the me and 3D is a massive improvement over 09 & 10.

As for the press conferences which are repetive and very dull, you do have the option of leaving it to somebody else, but they do need working on if they will have any longetivity for future versions.

I have always had this thought that each year they should be add-ons and maybe every 2 years have a full version with more things added in depth and then a another add-on in between.

Totally agree with regards FM08, dreadful. Personally I think this version was when it got big though. Lots of new users came in and since then, it has ony improved for them.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

Wow. You really do have your head in the sand. So you're telling me 3D match engine was there in 07? You're telling me Dynamic League Reputation was there in 07? This is why I said you can scream 'till you're blue in the face that nothing has changed, but it has. Even if they have built on something old, and made it better, it's still an improvement. Which is where the debate completely stops. I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. You must be looking for them to completely overhaul the game, every year, but that's just not possible.

Do you get FIFA, and accept that the new passing system is something new? Something major? I think it is, but you'll probably tell me, HEY.! They had passing in the game in FIFA 90, it's nothing new, it's just redressed. You're looking far too hard t see the wood between the trees. Just accept that if you put FM07 in, and FM11 in a computer beside it, you will see a wealth of changes in the game that are VERY important to the evolution of Football Manager. If you really can't see that, then why bother picking up a copy of the game?

Newgens are far and away the best option. They are used now, not FREDs.

And I'm sure FM07 does have it's appeal for some people. FM08 has appeal for me, because I have a 60 season save there. Do I think it's a better game than FM11? No. Do I think it's a great game. Yes. So I'll still play it. It's not that I go back to FM08 because I think FM11 is poor. I go back to play it because I enjoy playing it.

That being said, still bearing in mind that there ARE new features that are important to FM, I think FM09 and FM10 were terrible games, and so I didn't play them. However, they still had groundbreaking new features. I'm sorry you can't see that.

See the bit in bold...see my title. Improvements are not new, which now, you have agreed. At last!

Also you say do I want it revamped every year? No, I want it released every two years, with REAL new features and REAL improvements which aren't bug ridden and improvements to things which have needed changing for years - I have said this all along.

We'll get there between us....

[SnakeXe]

The tactics creator is an awesome tool, best feature in years.

The match analysis tool is one of the most useful features in the game.

There's two biggies from just the last two editions.

[Schotsmannetje]

But what have the Romans ever done for us?

The aqueduct?!

The sewage??

(brilliant Monthy Python's Life of Brian scene by the way )

[Lankylars]

See the bit in bold...see my title. Improvements are not new, which now, you have agreed. At last!

Also you say do I want it revamped every year? No, I want it released every two years, with REAL new features and REAL improvements which aren't bug ridden and improvements to things which have needed changing for years - I have said this all along.

We'll get there between us....

What are these "REAL" features and improvements that you're discussing? FM makes your coffee? FM predicts the future with 100% accuracy?

[Lankylars]

The sewage??

(brilliant Monthy Python's Life of Brian scene by the way )

Ah! I knew I recognized that quote from somewhere. Couldn't place it though.

[NepentheZ]

See the bit in bold...see my title. Improvements are not new, which now, you have agreed. At last!

Also you say do I want it revamped every year? No, I want it released every two years, with REAL new features and REAL improvements which aren't bug ridden and improvements to things which have needed changing for years - I have said this all along.

We'll get there between us....

Improvements are still making the game better. I still sit here before you, telling you that you are wrong in the fact that there are "NO NEW FEATURES" when I have pointed out many, and other people have also pointed some out. You can't tell me there aren't any new features. You just can't.

You want it released every 2 years. So what. You talk so much about the computer programmers side of things, well how about look at it from a business side of things. They probably wouldn't make money if they released the game every 2 years. I'm almost certain of it.

As for bugs. I defy you to find me a game in this day and age that has no bugs.

[wwfan]

In FM07 did you see the option in tactics to be able to define set positions? e.g. you have a winger and you are not sure how to set his sliders, simply click 'set to' winger and it does it for you. The tactics creator is a version of this. Again, not new, just existing stuff redressed. Again can't you see that?

Complete rubbish. It's a totally different tactical system with masses of interrelating dynamic switches. It is nothing like the old 'set positions' at all. If you think it is, you simply haven't understood what it does and how it works.

[Andy Anon]

But for me what you have just said only goes to show that the new stuff is just old stuff but shown to us differently/ using a different interface.

Ok 3D and DLR are new but one was suggested so much by users they bowed to pressure so they can't take the credit for that. The other is implemented poorly IMO. The graphics are still terrible in a day and age where that side should be easy - given their experience in 'player movement'.

That sums up your whining there mate. Even when you accept that there have been changes you claim SI should not take credit for acting on feedback or actually introducing something 'new'.

We live in a free society and you have already whined that you won't be buying another verison. How will I sleep tonight now I know this?

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

Complete rubbish. It's a totally different tactical system with masses of interrelating dynamic switches. It is nothing like the old 'set positions' at all. If you think it is, you simply haven't understood what it does and how it works.

wwfan, I could probably argue with you all night, but after seeing several of your discussions with other users - and seeing that you have been wrong in completely different circumstances, I don't wish to converse with you. You can never admit you are wrong, therefore you are no good to talk with.

If you are telling me that what I said is rubbish then that is because you think you coded it probably. I seem to remember some tactical forum which you was involved in and reading it because it caused mass hysteria, then thinking, this is complete bollocks. Taking the game WAY too seriously. Reading in to things which aren't even there.

Dynamic switches, you're hilarious. If you think I thought it was just 'set positions' you haven't understood that I was simply very vaguely outlining what it is.

[Leeds_Leeds_Leeds!]

That sums up your whining there mate. Even when you accept that there have been changes you claim SI should not take credit for acting on feedback or actually introducing something 'new'.

We live in a free society and you have already whined that you won't be buying another verison. How will I sleep tonight now I know this?

Don't know mate. I'm sure you'll manage. That SI duvet will keep you warm I bet....