Possibilities

[Lermon]

Its come to that stage where the number-crunching possibilities come into play - what conditions are needed for team x, y, z to win/qualify etc.

So looking at the group tables:

Team....... 	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Uruguay.....	2 	1 	1 	0 	3 	0 	3 	4
Mexico......	2 	1 	1 	0 	3 	1 	2 	4
France......	2 	0 	1 	1 	0 	2 	-2 	1
S Africa.....	2 	0 	1 	1 	1 	4 	-3 	1

Fixtures remaining:

Uruguay vs Mexico

France vs South Africa

Group B

Team....... 	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Argentina...	2 	2 	0 	0 	5 	1 	4 	6
S Korea.....	2 	1 	0 	1 	3 	4 	-1 	3
Greece......	2 	1 	0 	1 	2 	3 	-1 	3
Nigeria.......	2 	0 	0 	2 	1 	3 	-2 	0

Fixtures remaining:

South Korea vs Nigeria

Argentina vs Greece

Group C

Team....... 	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Slovenia....	2 	1 	1 	0 	3 	2 	1 	4
USA..........	2 	0 	2 	0 	3 	3 	0 	2
England.....	2 	0 	2 	0 	1 	1 	0 	2
Algeria.......	2 	0 	1 	1 	0 	1 	-1 	1

Fixtures remaining:

USA vs Algeria

England vs Slovenia

[SCIAG]

Group A table needs a tweak.

Edit: Stealthily fixed.

[Lermon]

what a pain in the ass these tables are.

[Rhino]

Good idea, Lermon

What's difficult about the tables?

[robbert_o154]

Good idea, Lermon

What's difficult about the tables?

Aligning them properly is a bitch. Either that or Lermon and me are equally rubbish at it. In any case, I find it a pain in the behind too.

[Lermon]

Rules of qualification:

The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:

a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;

b) goal difference in all group matches;

c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows:

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;

e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;

f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;

g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

[Rhino]

I usually do it one of two ways:

1. Do it in notepad, which makes it easy to align as it's a Courier font.

2. Do it in Excel, and then get Excel to prepare you the text to copy and paste, all aligned and everything.

You could, of course, go down a third route:

3. Persuade SI to enable HTML on these forums so that you can draw tables.

[Lermon]

Good idea, Lermon

What's difficult about the tables?

Hopefully as theres lots of head-scratching around this time.

Not sure why the table formatting goes wacky, but I've put full stops which seems to have cemented it in place

[Doog]

I love the possibility of group c's matches ending england 2-2 slovenia and usa 0-0 algeria. drawing of lots ftw

[Lermon]

I usually do it one of two ways:

1. Do it in notepad, which makes it easy to align as it's a Courier font.

2. Do it in Excel, and then get Excel to prepare you the text to copy and paste, all aligned and everything.

You could, of course, go down a third route:

3. Persuade SI to enable HTML on these forums so that you can draw tables.

ah okay, will remember that thanks.

[Lermon]

Anyway so looking at these and group A:

Uruguay to guarantee qualification just need a draw, but with their goal difference might be able to qualify with a loss should France (1) not win by a large margin, or (2) Uruguay don't lose by a large margin.

Mexico to guarantee qualification also just need a draw, and if they lose then in the same way as Uruguay must hope they don't, get leapfrogged by either France or South Africa winning by a good margin.

France must win and rely on the Uruguay-Mexico match to not be a draw. Should they win, and Uruguay/Mexico don't draw, then they must win by a good margin/hope the loser of the other match loses by a bad margin.

South Africa must win and rely on the Uruguay-Mexico match to not be a draw. Should they win, and Uruguay/Mexico don't draw, then they also must win by a good margin/hope the loser of the other match loses by a bad margin.

[Lermon]

Group B:

Argentina have basically qualified barring a possibility whereby South Korea and Greece both win by large margins.

South Korea must win to guarantee qualification (presuming Greece don't win by a larger margin than them). To draw they need to hope (1) Greece don't win (2) Greece don't draw in a 1+ high drawing game than their own game. If South Korea lose, their only chance of qualification is hoping Greece (1) don't win (2) don't draw (3) that their loss to Nigeria isn't more than Greece's loss to Argentina, and (4)

Nigeria don't beat them by a margin of 2 or more goals.

Greece to guarantee qualification must win, and by a larger margin than a South Korea win against Nigeria. To draw they must hope (1) South Korea don't win (2) That their drawing match is 1+ higher than South Korea's drawing match (3) and if they lose must hope South Korea have also lost by a larger margin than them, or that Nigeria haven't won by too large a margin.

Nigeria must win and rely on Greece losing.

[Lermon]

Group C:

Slovenia can win or draw to guarantee qualification. If they lose they rely on (1) USA not winning (2) Algeria not winning by at least a margin of 1 goal either way.

USA can win to guarantee qualification. If they draw they rely on (1) England not winning (2) that if England draw aren't in a higher draw scoring game than them (2+). They don't qualify if they lose.

England can win to guarantee qualification. If they draw they must hope (1) USA don't win (2) that upon drawing they score more in a draw than in a USA draw(2+). If England lose they don't qualify. (as should US also lose that means Algeria has won and they will take the qualifying spot)

Algeria must win and either (1) hope England draw or lose, (2) or when Algeria win do so by a good margin(to displace Slovenia), or hope Slovenia lose by a good margin.(equally to displace Slovenia)

[Lermon]

Group D

Team        	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Ghana       	2 	1 	1 	0 	2 	1 	1 	4
Germany    	2 	1 	0 	1 	4 	1 	3 	3
Serbia       	2 	1 	0 	1 	1 	1 	0 	3
Australia    	2 	0 	1 	1 	1 	5 	-4 	1

Remaining fixtures:

Australia vs Serbia

Ghana vs Germany

Ghana must win or draw to guarantee qualification. If they lose rely on (1) Serbia not winning (2) Serbia not drawing -but if Ghana lose by 1 goal then it will come down to goals scored. (3) a combination of Australia not winning by a large margin, and Ghana not losing by a large margin.

Germany must win to guarantee qualification. If they draw rely on (1) Serbia not winning or (2) Australia not winning by a unprecedented margin. If Germany lose they don't qualify- as it means Serbia would have leapfrogged them by winning, drawing, or Australia have leapfrogged them by winning.

Serbia must win to guarantee qualification. If they draw rely on (1) Germany losing. Germany drawing would put them above Serbia via GD.

Australia must win and rely on (1) Germany losing, or (2) a bloody miracle in terms of scoring.

[CircusCarnie]

Uruguay v Mexico is a nailed on draw surely? Neither team are going to risk anything knowing they risk elimination with a loss. Just checked at the bookies and they have it priced at 1.75

[Rhino]

Uruguay v Mexico is a nailed on draw surely? Neither team are going to risk anything knowing they risk elimination with a loss. Just checked at the bookies and they have it priced at 1.75

You'd surely want to win the group so that you avoid Argentina in the next round, though?

I get the feeling they'll both want the win.

[CircusCarnie]

Uruguay already top so they wont be doing anything silly. Don't think Mexico have enough in them to break down their defence

[Lermon]

I'll work out the group E one as it's so easy. (denmark need to win, japan just need a draw)

[georginho_juventusygr]

And who is afraid to face Argentina?

[Lermon]

Group E

Team        	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Holland      	2 	2 	0 	0 	3 	0 	3 	6
Japan        	2 	1 	0 	1 	1 	1 	0 	3
Denmark    	2 	1 	0 	1 	2 	3 	-1 	3
Cameroon  	2 	0 	0 	2 	1 	3 	-2 	0

Remaining fixtures:

Holland vs Cameroon

Japan vs Denmark

Holland are already qualified, since Japan and Denmark are playing at each other, and only one can win.

Japan need to win or draw to guarantee qualification. If they lose Denmark (obviously) qualifies.

Denmark must win to qualify since Japan has a better GD.

Cameroon can't qualify since any result of the game of Japan vs Denmark will finish either of them in the qualification spot.

[Razzler]

Uruguay / Mexico with the way the table is and the goal difference and the fact they probably want to avoid Argentina I expect a 'proper' football match for 60 minutes or so. Can basically play, keep it tight, if someone takes the lead later you can maybe say "ok, you win" as no one wants to lose by more than 1 goal really, just in case.

I'd still bank on a draw though but I think the competitive nature of the game may stop going into the last portion of the game even if there's a narrow deficit on one side

[Confused Clarity]

I love the possibility of group c's matches ending england 2-2 slovenia and usa 0-0 algeria. drawing of lots ftw

It would be rather amusing to me to see that happen and England lose that

[Micado]

Aligning them properly is a bitch. Either that or Lermon and me are equally rubbish at it. In any case, I find it a pain in the behind too.

Probably the latter

Hoping for Uruguay, Mexico from Group A, Argentina and S.Korea from Group B, Slovenia and USA from Group C, and Germany and Serbia from Group D and Denmark from Group E.

[Micado]

Oh, not sure, but post it in this thread.

I understood that all yellows from group stage would be removed when entering the KO phase (unless a players picks up a 2nd yellow in the 3rd group game, then he is banned for the next match), but yesterday on the Dutch WC show they said, that will happen after round of 16 matches, so two more games to be careful of if true.

Any one has a link/know how it really is?

[Razzler]

I love the possibility of group c's matches ending england 2-2 slovenia and usa 0-0 algeria. drawing of lots ftw

We should have a penalty shoot out instead ... oh

[CircusCarnie]

Oh, not sure, but post it in this thread.

I understood that all yellows from group stage would be removed when entering the KO phase (unless a players picks up a 2nd yellow in the 3rd group game, then he is banned for the next match), but yesterday on the Dutch WC show they said, that will happen after round of 16 matches, so two more games to be careful of if true.

Any one has a link/know how it really is?

Said on one of the UK channels yesterday they get removed at quarters. It's to prevent a player getting a yellow in the semis and missing the final apparently

[Razzler]

FIFA would be terrified of a series of top players missing the final, I would imagine

[tcoleman1]

Would be a very strange world cup if Germany, England and France didn't make it through. This isn't taking into account what happens with Italy, Spain, Brazil, Portugal etc. Obviously I hope England get through and I think we will. Serbia should beat Australia and Ghana could draw with Germany.

[ATW]

Said on one of the UK channels yesterday they get removed at quarters. It's to prevent a player getting a yellow in the semis and missing the final apparently

Start of the Quarters. So if a player is booked in the Quarters and then the Semi Final they'll miss the final.

[Rhino]

Quite right, too. But if they get booked in the Second Round and then a subsequent match they wouldn't miss their next game, so overall it reduces the odds of a key player being suspended.

I kinda like it, and hope that this lets a few players off the leash to kick the ***** out of their opponents.

[Lermon]

Group F

Team        	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Paraguay   	2 	1 	1 	0 	3 	1 	2 	4
Italy 	        2 	0 	2 	0 	2 	2 	0 	2
N Zealand  	2 	0 	2 	0 	2 	2 	0 	2
Slovakia     	2 	0 	1 	1 	1 	3 	-2 	1

Remaining fixtures:

Thursday 24th June

Paraguay v New Zealand

Thursday 24th June

Slovakia v Italy

[boots]

Paraguay - 4

New Zealand - 2

Italy - 2

Slovakia - 1

Paraguay vs. New Zealand

Italy vs. Slovakia

All four can still qualify for the round of 16, right?

[Astafjevs]

Yes.

Italy win - they go through.

Italy draw - they need Paraguay to win to go through.

Slovakia win - they need Paraguay to win to go through.

New Zealand draw - need Italy to lose to go through. Alternatively, need to have a high scoring draw (higher than Italy) to progress.

[Micado]

So who will we be getting (assuming that we finish 1st in our group), tbh, not hoping for Paraguay, the rest in don't mind, so Paraguay to win and Slovakia to win as with the Italians you never know.

[Lermon]

Paraguay can win or draw to guarantee promotion. If they lose rely on (1) Italy not winning and (2)Slovakia not attaining a better GD than them by winning by a decent margin.(like 2 goals- and also Paraguay losing by 1 or 2 goals)

Italy must win to guarantee promotion. If they draw must rely on (1) New Zealand not winning (2) scoring more goals in their draw if New Zealand also draw otherwise it will go to lots. If Italy lose they are out.

New Zealand must win to guarantee promotion. If they draw must rely on (1) Italy not winning (2) Slovakia not winning (3) Scoring more goals in a draw if Italy should also draw. (otherwise lots)

Slovakia must win and rely on (1) New Zealand not winning to attain qualification. (2) But if both New Zealand and Slovakia do win then Slovakia must win by a much bigger margin than New Zealand's win to get qualification. A draw or lose for Slovakia and they don't qualify.

[pago]

It would be rather amusing to me to see that happen and England lose that

i would hope they televise it too!

[Tim2]

If Uruguay vs Mexico ends in a draw they both go through with Uruguay winning the group due to beating South Africa 3-0.

[Tim2]

We have to score on Wednesday otherwise we will go out with three draws on goals scored, we can still win the group we have to beat Slovenia and hope the USA beat Algeria by fewer goals.

[Lermon]

Group G
Team  	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Brazil         2 	2 	0 	0 	5 	2 	3 	6
Portugal 	2 	1 	1 	0 	7 	0 	7 	4
Ivory C 	2 	0 	1 	1 	1 	3 	-2 	1
Korea DPR 	2 	0 	0 	2 	1 	9 	-8 	0

Remaining fixtures:

Brazil vs Portugal

Ivory Coast vs N Korea

Brazil have already qualified.

Portugal have basically already qualifed barring a miracle from Ivory Coast..

Ivory Coast need to beat North Korea by ~9 goals, and thats hoping Portugal don't draw or beat Brazil

North Korea can't do a thing other than overtake Ivory Coast for 3rd spot.

[Lermon]

This is the most interesting group possibility wise

Group H
Team  	Pl  	W  	D  	L  	F 	A  	Gd  	Pts
Chile 	        2 	2 	0 	0 	2 	0 	2 	6
Spain 	2 	1 	0 	1 	2 	1 	1 	3
Switzerland 2 	1 	0 	1 	1 	1 	0 	3
Honduras    2 	0 	0 	2 	0 	3 	-3 	0

Remaining fixtures:

Chile vs Spain

Switzerland vs Honduras

Chile need to win or draw to guarantee promotion. If they lose, their fate relies on how bad they've lost, and if Switzerland have beaten Honduras and by how much.

Spain- if they've beaten Chile- it will be presumed that they will have improved their gd by a minimum of +1, and Chile by -1, therefore qualifying them above Chile. If Spain have drawn, they rely on (1) Switzerland not winning. If Switzerland have drawn and Spain have drawn, Spain go through. If Spain lose, they must rely on (1) Switzerland also losing, and Honduras not winning by a huge (~3) margin.

Switzerland can win to get promotion and will do so if (1) Spain haven't won. But if Spain have won then it depends on (i)how much Switzerland have won and (ii) how much Chile have lost. A 1-0 win for Switzerland, and a 1-0 loss for Chile will open it up to lots. However, a greater win for Switzerland or a greater loss for Chile, and Switzerland will take Chile's position. A Swiss draw and they rely on (1) Spain losing.

Honduras need to win by a huge margin against Switzerland (~4/5) and hope Chile beat Spain. (Chile beating Spain by a good amount will narrow the margin Honduras need vs Switzerland)