Is anyone else sick of FM10?

[PaulC]

I would not say that its bad that the 3-5-2 doesn't work. That has been an easy way to success far to long. What I am saying it that its not bad that its hard, but its bad that you have to find one SUPER formation to be rather successful, instead of creating a just fine formation on your own. It really is a shame. Should be said that I managed to win against sampdoria, 3-2. Even after they went up with 2 goals. Wonder if I can replay and win some of these matches now.

I've beem working on 3 man defence for 10.2 today actually. Trying to improve the positioning and decision making of the 3 centre halves when defending.

But....if the wing backs or wide mids dont come back when defending you will get absolutely ripped down the flanks. IMHO it has to be done that way or AI teams playing it from their db settings will be hopeless.

[halldors78]

FM 2010 is great and i saw many changes like this with Liverpool, had to change Torres to a poacher and he started scoring goals and so on. And of course team like Port Vale wont be able to play just as you want them or at least not always, they just arent good enough. and also of course your team is just as good as the opposition lets them. and just as in real live Liverpool can beat Man Utd one week and the next lose to Fulham or Birmingham or whatever. and the game engine is fine, it loads quickly and the game is more realistic then watching pes or fifa play, lots more real stuff going on.

[B£NNY]

That's an extremely aggressive set up and will require a world class side to pull off. You are basically pushing the whole team forward and relying on your playmaker and two DCs to defend. Both The BWM and B2B will move up quite aggressively, as will the WBs, which will hurt your defensive shape, especially so if you have new players and ar ungelled/they don't respect the manager.

There are two possible issue with the Playmaker:

1: If a DLP: Because of how a playmaker moves into space for passes, he'll often be out of defensive position and be unable to cover for sudden losses of possession

2: If an Anchor Man: The Anchor Man role is basically a water-carrier. Setting an AM as a Playmaker hurts both roles, as the team looks to find him, but he won't play creative passes.

You haven't told us which duties you are using either. If you are messing around with duties, you can further unbalance things and open up even more gaps.

How is this so agressive? I got one DM to defend, one CM to win balls, often set to defend, one box to box, which is both attacking and defensive.

I'l post duties of my last match, where I was totally overrun by Milan away, which I accept. Ended 2-1 till them,

Vucinic Complete forward, support. Totti , Trequartista - attack

Baptista - ACM support

Brighi - Ballwinning - Defend Pizzaro box support

De Rossi Defensive Midfielder - Defender

Both wingbacks auto, Mexes and Juan both standard CD with Defend, I have thought of giving Mexes the role as ballplaying as he is really good mentally and has a good passing foot.

I have changed Totti to an advanced forward.

If you wanna protect the defensive line, your DMC must have closing down tuned down. Let Brighi, Pizarro or Perrotta (AMC in fm10??) do the closing down.

The way i see the game of football DMC is the most important player, he provides balance to my football teams, i can't have him running around to the lines.

Your DMC should never close down a guy on the line in my opinion, unless it's crucial. IRL it's how Porto, PSV and Marseille DMC play for example.

In FM10, if your DMC has closing down whole pitch, even with no roaming, he still runs around way to much. Check he's stamina, i had my DMC going to 70%. something had to be wrong.

Again it's just how i see it. There's plenty of different ways to set your team. Nobody can expect to bring a type of football better suited to holland or portugal for example and put it to work in england in a couple of months. In your case, Italy is very tricky, fluid football is probably not the best option. Remember, Roma was playing the best football in Italy 2 years ago, and they weren't getting scudettos either.

Maybe you're best suited to play in the spanish, dutch or portuguese league. For example i have a hard time coaching in Germany and England, but i do great in France.

I see mate. But there is no way to decide his closing down in this tacticmode, I'll just pich anchorman. But De Rossi is way to good attacking to simply defend, so I'll pick him as my defensive midfielder so that he might do a bit magic up as well. Perhaps switch him and Brighi?

[jim82]

Dont think i'd have Vucnic on support, and i'd probably have my wingbacks as full backs and more on the defensive side.

[pedrofilipe.lourencosta]

FM 2010 is great and i saw many changes like this with Liverpool, had to change Torres to a poacher and he started scoring goals and so on. And of course team like Port Vale wont be able to play just as you want them or at least not always, they just arent good enough. and also of course your team is just as good as the opposition lets them. and just as in real live Liverpool can beat Man Utd one week and the next lose to Fulham or Birmingham or whatever. and the game engine is fine, it loads quickly and the game is more realistic then watching pes or fifa play, lots more real stuff going on.

"your team is just as good as the opposition lets them" - true, that's why people go crazy when relegation teams crawl back against title contenders even when playing away from home.

[pedrofilipe.lourencosta]

I see mate. But there is no way to decide his closing down in this tacticmode, I'll just pich anchorman. But De Rossi is way to good attacking to simply defend, so I'll pick him as my defensive midfielder so that he might do a bit magic up as well. Perhaps switch him and Brighi?

Yeah, i think the tactic is well balanced. I tried to play with Roma too and had the same problem. Rossi plays best at DMC but you need him in offense too. I don't think it's a player problem. With that midfield your team should be a wall at midfield. Those 3 guys get the job done on the defensive side of the ball. Your problem should be scoring goals and it's not. All those goals from outside the box should never be happen that often.

[B£NNY]

^^ Yeh mate.

How about this then

Vucinivic complete forward att Batisti as advanced forward

Totti Playmaker support

De Rossi CM support Pizzaro Box2box

Perrotta Anchor

Riise Fullback auto - Mexes ballplaying defend - Juan CD defend - Motta Fullback auto

Phil - Rigid

Starting strat - Control

Passing style - default

default

default

default

Marking Zonal

crossing drill

roaming- more.

That did fine deffansively against Fiorentina at home, but I didn't create big chances. Gonna try it the next match as well too.

[Svenc]

What I think has happened is that SI have got in the same mindset that EA did with FIFA, putting in meaningless, pointless features.

That is so wrong an assessment that I don't even know where to start. The thing about FIFA/FIFA Man is that it has been totally lacking in direction. In one version features where brought in only to be cut in the next one - and then to be brought up again in a later edition, as a means to have something "new" to sell the game on, as a cynic might put it. Meanwhile, the core experience stayed the same for years, in parts never up to its competition.

Mind, one could happily argue that each new iteration of FM is merely an upgrade to the last version too, that's the way these series tend to be. But there is a major difference: Neither of what I described in my first paragraph has ever been the case with FM. When a feature makes it into the game, it stays in there and is then either further explored in depth or at least stays in the game as it appears to be something considered doing before, rather than a gimmick meant to sell another sequel. SI are aiming at recreating an authentic football management experience, and press conference, 3d view, different pitch sizes that affect the efficiency of tactics and all the other stuff belongs in there. They're not superficial gimmicks, they're means to further expand the core experience. Fine if you don't like any of those, and FM certainly has a couple of rough sputs. But comparing this to FIFA at its arguably most fishy is so totally not getting it.

[jameswibbs]

yer iam abit i seem to create four good chances then the other team has one and scores

[Jolanthustrel]

I've seen it mentioned in another forum regarding another product, but I think it would be appropriate here also. People would still complain if SI gave away boxes of free money.

[B£NNY]

yer iam abit i seem to create four good chances then the other team has one and scores

Tell me about it.. Thought I had changed it by now. Winning one, loosing against Milan away, thats ok. Then drawing against Fiorentina at home. Was ok as my deffansive play was very good. Then Chievo, in the 50th minute, I have 10 shots, 5 on goal. They have 4 shots, 2 on goal. They lead 2-1, after two goals in 4-5 minutes. I cursed.

[wwfan]

How is this so agressive? I got one DM to defend, one CM to win balls, often set to defend, one box to box, which is both attacking and defensive.

I'l post duties of my last match, where I was totally overrun by Milan away, which I accept. Ended 2-1 till them,

Vucinic Complete forward, support. Totti , Trequartista - attack

Baptista - ACM support

Brighi - Ballwinning - Defend Pizzaro box support

De Rossi Defensive Midfielder - Defender

Both wingbacks auto, Mexes and Juan both standard CD with Defend, I have thought of giving Mexes the role as ballplaying as he is really good mentally and has a good passing foot.

I have changed Totti to an advanced forward.

It's an interesting examination of how minor things can make big differences.

It is aggressive because of how you have the central midfield/FBs set up, but your front line won't be helping them.

The BWM gets involved in play in the central midfield, as he has higher CD settings and more aggressive tackling. The B2B does what it says on the tin and shuffles backwards and forwards. Wingbacks also fly forward. This can lead to the FBs and both MCs pressing too far forward and leaving gaps behind them. If you were using the DM as a PM, then he wont necessarily be in the best position to cover quick losses of possession as he will be looking to move into positions to get the ball.

Using Tottie as a TQ will also cause problems with the above set up, especially when he's partnering a CF/Support. The TQ doesn't do any defensive work, and a Support Forward won't put much pressure on the defensive line. You've thus got a problem. Your forwards sit back, whereas your FBs and MCs push up aggressively. This compresses the midfield and allows the opposition to hit quick, direct balls out of defence over their heads to breaking players attacking an out of position DMC and two DCs. You'll have real problems defending space just outside the final third, and will probably often face 3 on 3 attacks. This will cause you defensive difficulties against any side, and you'll concede a lot of goals from 25 yards or from what look like defensive mistakes as the back 3 desperately try to regroup.

Playing less aggressive strategies will help the issue, but you'll be sacrificing any width when you go forward by keeping the FBs back, plus opening attack lines down the flanks. Neither of the FCs will offer any high width with those roles, so you'll be hassled out of your stride easily if you try to counter.

[B£NNY]

See my latest post for my latest formation mate. I tried a new one. Now its almost fine deffansively (****ing chievo scored in 50 % of their shots) which made it 2-2 since I was lucky enough to get a controersial late penalty. I played alot, had much possesion and a fine pass percentage.

Vucinivic complete forward att Batisti as advanced forward

Totti Playmaker support

De Rossi CM support Pizzaro Box2box

Perrotta Anchor

Riise Fullback auto - Mexes ballplaying defend - Juan CD defend - Motta Fullback auto

Phil - Rigid

Starting strat - Control

Passing style - default

default

default

default

Marking Zonal

crossing drill

roaming- more.

However no creativity, no real chances. No defensesplitting passes. ONLY SHOTS FROM 20 meters.

[RazvanRat]

I've become annoyed by what seem like repetitive elements in the match engine. I know that every penalty awarded will go in (I do know how difficult testing the game is, but how on earth did no-one pick up on the fact that the majority of penalty shoot-outs feauture one miss in 18 or 20 penalties?). I know that if my player gets the ball out wide in space, 80% of the time he'll wait for the defender to catch up and knock it off the defender for a corner. I know that a free-kick from which my player shoots will deflect off the wall for a corner. If I see a backpass from out wide, I know that it's going out for a corner, with the keeper running on the spot, unable to cross the goalline where the ball is going out. I know that my players will choose to shoot long even if I have free players in the box, I know that my strikers won't make space for themselves and rely on defenders moving out of position. I think there's a real problem with wide players going clean through on goal but then choosing to go wide for the cross rather than cut in and head for goal; I think this might be why people have complained about wide players not scoring enough; if their instruction isn't to cut in, then they won't cut in even when it would put them clean on goal. Coupled with the refusal of strikers to make horizontal runs to shake their markers, there are so few goals created from open play without relying on long shots or awful defender positioning that it makes the game really frustrating.

But the main thing is the set pieces being so repetitive and the wingers waiting for defenders to catch up with them, or at least not trying to make a yard of space from which to cross. Every Time they just hit it blithely off the defender for a corner. I did quite enjoy my first two seasons, but the repetitive problems with the match engine mean I'm giving up until the next patch when hopefully some of these issues will be solved and the matches won't feel like banging a head against the same brick wall forever.

I might go through a pkm and make some comments some time soon, just picking out every instance of these repetitions.: would that be useful? Would it be a thread of its own?

[grade]

That is so wrong an assessment that I don't even know where to start. The thing about FIFA/FIFA Man is that it has been totally lacking in direction. In one version features where brought in only to be cut in the next one - and then to be brought up again in a later edition, as a means to have something "new" to sell the game on, as a cynic might put it. Meanwhile, the core experience stayed the same for years, in parts never up to its competition.

Mind, one could happily argue that each new iteration of FM is merely an upgrade to the last version too, that's the way these series tend to be. But there is a major difference: Neither of what I described in my first paragraph has ever been the case with FM. When a feature makes it into the game, it stays in there and is then either further explored in depth or at least stays in the game as it appears to be something considered doing before, rather than a gimmick meant to sell another sequel. SI are aiming at recreating an authentic football management experience, and press conference, 3d view, different pitch sizes that affect the efficiency of tactics and all the other stuff belongs in there. They're not superficial gimmicks, they're means to further expand the core experience. Fine if you don't like any of those, and FM certainly has a couple of rough sputs. But comparing this to FIFA at its arguably most fishy is so totally not getting it.

Tell that to the guys of PES.

What I don't get is why those an ME that in in development for five years (counting only since FM series started with FM05) that needs tweaking every release? I mean of course there is bound to have issues, since it is a game. But come on? Five years?

Don't get in too much of illusion here guys (and ladies) that FM won't always be leader in the market of Football sims. I mean its leader of the market now, but what I have read on the net and in some reviews is despite having major flaws the other sims they are catching and fast FM. I predict that if things go at this rate, FM will be blown out of the water in 2 years.

Also the current way of some of the fans in this forum and the way of no interaction from SI in these forums, makes me an alarmist that the future of FM series doesn't look so bright.

I always stood up for consumer is always right despite being a minority, because an unhappy costumer has no problem to go to the competition. To be honest I don't like much this crazy battle between people that complain (from whatever reasons) because they payed a game to one purpose and one purpose only, to have fun, and the fanboys that only interest seemed to be here moaning in protecting the game. Then comes the arrogance (yes I dare to say that word) that i feel that comes from SI or at least few of the few that come here at the forum stating "there is nothing wrong with the game" "The injuries are fine." Lets just stop right there. First of all there was a problem with the injuries and was severely toned down in FM10. So basically the "moaners" as the fanboys called them where right.

Also it is valid in comparing FM to Fifa Manager and Championship manager, because their basically the same type of game, a Football sim. Now I agree that comparing to Fifa or PES is wrong because basically two completely different games but about the same thing. It is like comparing Halo 3 and Halo Wars. there can't be compared like that.

I don't deny that SI don't listen to us consumers, but that doesn't mean that some of the few need to be arrogant that "There is nothing wrong with the game." Whatever problems your having you don't need to be picky towards costumers, who give feedback and want to have fun with the game they bought. Now if this arrogance is to continue then I think it just better just to shut down the forum.

All in all developers and FM consumers love this series and are willing to give feedback in one way or another, but both love the series.

I just appeal to all of us be little curtious, respectful to other opinions. And to SI try to ear more the costumers and Graphic makers (who I think do tremendous job for no money at all). Is that so hard to create a Thread by asking costumers what features do people like what don't? or a Poll or something? (whispering to SI ear) "I want to know something Press Conferences are still boring!" Shhhhhhhh. You didn't hear this from me.

I'm off! Have a good match!

Cheers!

[jim82]

Good post grade. I have found SI to be more helpful than the picture you paint of them there, but every now and again they come across as arrogant, they are human!

It's the non-SI people who come in with really unconstructive comments that **** me off about these forums.

Press conferences are boring.

[wwfan]

See my latest post for my latest formation mate. I tried a new one. Now its almost fine deffansively (****ing chievo scored in 50 % of their shots) which made it 2-2 since I was lucky enough to get a controersial late penalty. I played alot, had much possesion and a fine pass percentage.

Vucinivic complete forward att Batisti as advanced forward

Totti Playmaker support

De Rossi CM support Pizzaro Box2box

Perrotta Anchor

Riise Fullback auto - Mexes ballplaying defend - Juan CD defend - Motta Fullback auto

Phil - Rigid

Starting strat - Control

Passing style - default

default

default

default

Marking Zonal

crossing drill

roaming- more.

However no creativity, no real chances. No defensesplitting passes. ONLY SHOTS FROM 20 meters.

It's looking considerably more balanced, but...

One issue you might have is the front line being a little too detached from the midfield. With two FCs, one should have a support duty, or they'll both be playing right on the d-line, with neither dropping back into space to pick up the ball. Having one on a Support Duty will see your shape morph between a 4-1-2-1-2 and a 4-1-2-2-1. Give one FB WB settings, and you'll start to see the odd 3-1-3-2-1 as well. This type of fluidity is much harder to defend against.

Once you've got players moving into space well, then you need to work out a shout strategy. Too many long shots, what should you do? Conceding on the break, what should you do? Each shout, or a combination of shouts, can help massively here.

[B£NNY]

WOHO! I won a match...

And press conferences are really boring. You only do them because the assman might say something stupid, or as a tool to shift the moral over in the right direction.

wwfan;

Vudicivnic has a support complete forward duty, was a typo of me Thanks for feedback mate.

Shout? What is that, you mean sideline instructions? I think Riise is up for a fullback role, as my latest match away against Atlanta really showed few defensive leaks. However, the match in bewtween against Chievo really ****ed me off. Typical lucky 4 shots, 2 goals type of opponent. And I have no idea how to pick out the right shout. If I go under, then perhaps give both FB WB status, and exploit the flanks. What do you think? That type of thing?

[jim82]

If you have an advanced forward, who 'comes deep to get ball', does that solve this ^^ problem?

[Masterstroke]

I'm failing miserable for the first time in FM eons.

And the fact that opp instructions get reset whenever i change formation has messed me up more, because I've only noticed now.

[wwfan]

If you have an advanced forward, who 'comes deep to get ball', does that solve this ^^ problem?

It might, but it also begs the question as to whether the player is suited for that role.

[wwfan]

WOHO! I won a match...

And press conferences are really boring. You only do them because the assman might say something stupid, or as a tool to shift the moral over in the right direction.

wwfan;

Vudicivnic has a support complete forward duty, was a typo of me Thanks for feedback mate.

Shout? What is that, you mean sideline instructions? I think Riise is up for a fullback role, as my latest match away against Atlanta really showed few defensive leaks. However, the match in bewtween against Chievo really ****ed me off. Typical lucky 4 shots, 2 goals type of opponent. And I have no idea how to pick out the right shout. If I go under, then perhaps give both FB WB status, and exploit the flanks. What do you think? That type of thing?

Shouts = Touchline Instructions.

Given that your formation is narrow and stretched (i.e. 5 strata) you should use shouts to maximise its advantages and minimise its weaknesses. You will have issues defending the flanks, as you are undermanned out wide, so perhaps should Play Wider to combat this. You'll also have a lack of width going forward, so perhaps Look for Overlap can help. Although you should always have plenty of players in the middle of the park, you might find they get too easily compressed. Thus, Play Wider and Drop Deeper can help, plus Exploit the Middle and perhaps Pass into Space to generate fast moving counters down the centre of the pitch.

NB: I am not saying these shouts will work, only giving you pointers about how to think. Some contradict each other. It is up to you to decide how you want to attack/defend, and employ them respectively.

[yadda]

"My first season with Port Vale was great, they did as they were told and I walked League 2 by 15 points, get promoted, media prediction of 10th and i'm 21st because they won't follow instructions."

So basically you're p*ssed off because your team gets outclassed in a tougher league and the media wildly overestimated your chances. How does that mean the game is broke or rubbish?

Did you realistically expect Port Vale to do anything but struggle in a higher division?

Buy Champ Manager 10, you'll love it

[B£NNY]

Done all these, not sure how effective they really are. I see your way of thinking, its logical. However, whatever I do, I draw. Seriously.

[Svenc]

's all fine, and maybe I'm off and this time it's me not getting the picture (comparing FM's philosophy to FIFA of old and FIFA Man as is is still off on so many levels), but a couple points:

1) I've rarely ever seen a developer trying to interact with the game's fans as in SI's case. This is a massively popular game, the forums are riddled with posts, there is zero time to adress everything and naturally, people tend to ignore the stickies and open their own thread on matters that have been done to death countless times, that's just the way internet forums are.

2) If the tactics creator isn't a feature that is meant to cater straight to the cries on these forums, I don't know what is. Well, there's more to that if you wrap your head around its implication once it has caught up with the community and its language, but yessir.

3) Fans don't know jack about anything.

4) They really don't.

5) Count me in.

That a program like FIFA Man has still at least two vastly different algorithms at play meant to determine a match outcome is arguably even in part due to the devs whorin.. listening to the fans. Both 3D and text gameplay were products that emerged from different fan groups that didn't care for one or the other. They're both put in the game to cater straight to the needs of each group, ignoring the problems that go with this. Player feedback is important, but it's equally important to check what's valuable and just ranting along.

As for the match engine development in FM, clearly it's natural that it is never going to be finished? The goal is providing an accurate simulation of a 90 minutes sports and its management. It's never going to be just like the real thing - that is just a goal that can be approached, but never be met. Likewise, tactical tools are becoming more and more sophisticated too, which requires an upgrade of the code itself, etc. As somebody put it, with a code this complicated, every minor tweak has its knock-down effect. I wasn't merely meant to accuse anyone of moaning, though dedicating all-new threads on criticism this sketchy certainly can be seen as such. I was just pointing out that comparing FM's design philosophy to FIFA Soccer's of old (or FIFA Man's as is) set of one-off features never explored in depth would be a little daft. I've provided arguments to back this up. It's never been Football Manager that has been touting a virtual desk which you can decorate with scarfs, apples and ballpoint pens as a "feature", all the while Luca Toni moves to Mainz as the transfer AI allows him to, f'r instance.

[wwfan]

Done all these, not sure how effective they really are. I see your way of thinking, its logical. However, whatever I do, I draw. Seriously.

As I said, they are just ideas. You have to learn how to best apply them. Things that work with your players may not work as well with mine (you being Roma, me being Stalybridge Celtic), which is why I can only give you a push in the right direction.

[Bielsista]

I started a game with Rubin. I won the first match, then lost like three on a row, changed the system to the old sliders, won three on a row. Touché.

[bat]

I'm sick of Si and the fanboys automatically dismissing concerns as whinging. Take the issue of the opposition's ability to score 30 yard screamers. Pointed out at the release of FM09, never seriously considered, and still an issue in FM10. I play the 2nd and 3rd division of Scotland primarily, not particularly known for 30 yard screamers, but lo and behold! Every week or so I concede at least one. I have a fringe player whose stats indicate he is barely capable of walking and talking simultaneously. Use him as a sub in some friendlies, he is useless. Play him in the reserves v firsts game against me, within 2 minutes he scores a 30 yarder THROUGH TWO PLAYERS. According to the fanboys it is all my fault....

[wwfan]

I'm sick of Si and the fanboys automatically dismissing concerns as whinging. Take the issue of the opposition's ability to score 30 yard screamers. Pointed out at the release of FM09, never seriously considered, and still an issue in FM10. I play the 2nd and 3rd division of Scotland primarily, not particularly known for 30 yard screamers, but lo and behold! Every week or so I concede at least one. I have a fringe player whose stats indicate he is barely capable of walking and talking simultaneously. Use him as a sub in some friendlies, he is useless. Play him in the reserves v firsts game against me, within 2 minutes he scores a 30 yarder THROUGH TWO PLAYERS. According to the fanboys it is all my fault....

If it is consistently happening to you, it will be down to some tactical reason. Rather than rant, why not describe your tactical set up, as B£NNY has done above, and we could try to help you work out why this is happening. We might not be able to provide all the answers, but we might also help you enjoy the game again.

[bat]

If it is consistently happening to you, it will be down to some tactical reason. Rather than rant, why not describe your tactical set up, as B£NNY has done above, and we could try to help you work out why this is happening. We might not be able to provide all the answers, but we might also help you enjoy the game again.

So, no-one provided information throughout the life of FM09 to help SI look at the issue? Interesting.

Take a punt - make a tactical suggestion as to why players in the Scottish 3rd div who have stats of less than 3 for shooting, longe range shooting, composure can produce these belters whilst being heavily marked

[wwfan]

There could be a number of reasons, which is why I asked for a tactical breakdown. I can guarantee it is tactical rather than ME related if it is happening to you a lot. Paul has accepted that long shots are slightly overpowered right now, but not to the extent you should be conceding from them at an alarming rate.

However, if you want to go the sarcasm route, it is no skin off my nose.

[bat]

Wasn't really being sarcastic, but can see why you thought so. The frustration is that there are plenty of other posters saying the same thing, but the answer is the same mantra "it's your tactics". You even guarantee so! The question is , how do my tactics mysteriously bestow the skills required to perform these feats to a numptie who clearly doesn't have the ability? You say there could be a number of reasons - lay some on me

As for a tactical breakdown, not so easy. To coin an appalling management buzz phrase, my tactics are a point in time thing - and I'm not in the habit of keeping tabs, or multiple saves. Safe to say, though, it's happened with a variety of setups.

And, most importantly, I do enjoy the game - a lot! Never been accused of ranting before - cool!

[One man went to mow]

Still play FM 08(Due to not having bought either 09 or 10 yet) but its my birthday on Monday so going to get FM 10 with some money hopefully.

Cant wait, but ******** myself that it wont work

[Svenc]

The frustration is that there are plenty of other posters saying the same thing, but the answer is the same mantra "it's your tactics". You even guarantee so! The question is , how do my tactics mysteriously bestow the skills required to perform these feats to a numptie who clearly doesn't have the ability?

It was already said by SI that long shots are overpowered. I think what wwfan meant was that there's a tactical reason if your opponent has so much opportunity to get those shots pulled off at such a frequent rate. Else PaulC would have probably asked to send in a pkm file already. People can't claim that SI and the peeps would simply dismiss any concerns raised as "whinging" - and then not even read the thread they're posting their claims in.

[Themistofelis]

I am not sick of FM ,i think it is a great improvement , i also think that it is tactically easier than previous releases .

Of course it isn't perfect because market sucks , even with perfect youth academy my first regens were of 90-130 range , which nullifies the purpose of having an academy and my 20 rated facilities declined to 19 after only on year , thing that proves how much i need FMRTE .

Top European clubs are keep on bidding for all my HG players (had to turn half Europe into 3rd world in order not to be left with foreigners only) but they will not bid for much better Latin American ones , even with "accept everything " on ; local clubs are bidding for my super crapsters (70/105 range) so i think i am going to edit their scouts .

[bat]

It was already said by SI that long shots are overpowered. I think what wwfan meant was that there's a tactical reason if your opponent has so much opportunity to get those shots pulled off at such a frequent rate. Else PaulC would have probably asked to send in a pkm file already. People can't claim that SI and the peeps would simply dismiss any concerns raised as "whinging" - and then not even read the thread they're posting their claims in.

On the contrary, I have read the thread. Saying that long shots are slightly overpowered doesn't explain the preponderance of them, nor the fact that players without the ability somehow magically get these gifts due to my tactics. And what do you mean "your opponent has so much opportunity"? I'm talking about situations where they are miles out from goal, with one or more defenders all over them.

[TSH]

There could be a number of reasons, which is why I asked for a tactical breakdown. I can guarantee it is tactical rather than ME related if it is happening to you a lot. Paul has accepted that long shots are slightly overpowered right now, but not to the extent you should be conceding from them at an alarming rate.

However, if you want to go the sarcasm route, it is no skin off my nose.

The point is not always using some micro management to avoid conceding long shots. The real point is that even a free long shot from 30 yards should not have so many chances of going in.

That is the real problem for me. One of the most succusefull defending tactics is actually stopping an opponent from coming near your box and actually restricting them to long shots, because they have such fewer options to be converted to goals. This is not a valid tactic in FM because as soon as you restrict the oppostion to long shots, their shots go in more often than they should.

[aditya]

i manage to get 3rd position wiht arsenal and i have to say FM10 is harder than previous version. jst have to get use to it i guess

[Gussman]

I have played 2 different saves, one with Arsenal which resulted in a Premiere League title and a Champion League Semi final and the second with lowley Weymouth.

What I found very interesting with regards to the first post of this thread is that with Arsenal my players reacted well to my instructions but my players at Weymouth didn't have a clue. Which leads me to believe that the game is pretty realistic and as is in real life players will make stupid mistakes and will sometime ignore instruction and football professionals at are Arsenal are more equiped to understand the instructions they are given.

Personally my journeyman save is by far the more challanging / enjoyable and time will tell if my manager skills will lead to success.

[grade]

Good post grade. I have found SI to be more helpful than the picture you paint of them there, but every now and again they come across as arrogant, they are human!

It's the non-SI people who come in with really unconstructive comments that **** me off about these forums.

Press conferences are boring.

That is why I said, whatever problems your having. People when angry about something, usually lash out to people that has nothing to do to the situation is the reason for them to be angry. It is human nature. However despite agreeing that They are human and they are not perfect, still as company they can't treat costumers like that. Luckily fm fans are presistant, since they see what great potencial this game as and if they where not, Fm wouldn't be leader of market for long time, for whatever how good the game is, the people would say "I don't play the game because the developers are arrogant bastards that don't care about us costumers."

It is basic marketing 101. The company not only has to provide good product, but also needs to have great after sale service (I don't recall the exact term). If they don't costumers have no problem to go elsewhere to find what they want.

"My first season with Port Vale was great, they did as they were told and I walked League 2 by 15 points, get promoted, media prediction of 10th and i'm 21st because they won't follow instructions."

So basically you're p*ssed off because your team gets outclassed in a tougher league and the media wildly overestimated your chances. How does that mean the game is broke or rubbish?

Did you realistically expect Port Vale to do anything but struggle in a higher division?

Buy Champ Manager 10, you'll love it

This is really uncalled for and the biggest problem in this forums. The philosophy of if you don't like the game for whatever reasons, go play another game and stop bugging us. If people did as this people say, by Now SI had already closed doors. Is it little hard for you to accept that some bugs don't bother you and to other does? Is it hard to accept that some people have take things much at heart, when they lost a game due to a bug? Is it hard to accept that those people have bought a game for fun and they are not having?

[bat]

That is why I said, whatever problems your having. People when angry about something, usually lash out to people that has nothing to do to the situation is the reason for them to be angry. It is human nature. However despite agreeing that They are human and they are not perfect, still as company they can't treat costumers like that. Luckily fm fans are presistant, since they see what great potencial this game as and if they where not, Fm wouldn't be leader of market for long time, for whatever how good the game is, the people would say "I don't play the game because the developers are arrogant bastards that don't care about us costumers."

It is basic marketing 101. The company not only has to provide good product, but also needs to have great after sale service (I don't recall the exact term). If they don't costumers have no problem to go elsewhere to find what they want.

This is really uncalled for and the biggest problem in this forums. The philosophy of if you don't like the game for whatever reasons, go play another game and stop bugging us. If people did as this people say, by Now SI had already closed doors. Is it little hard for you to accept that some bugs don't bother you and to other does? Is it hard to accept that some people have take things much at heart, when they lost a game due to a bug? Is it hard to accept that those people have bought a game for fun and they are not having?

Well said Grade!

[Svenc]

On the contrary, I have read the thread. Saying that long shots are slightly overpowered doesn't explain the preponderance of them.

Why not? What I'm getting through PaulC basically agreeing that long shots are owerpowered means that long shots lead to more goals than desired. Wy shouldn't that apply to players with lesser ability too? To a lesser extent, naturally. But having a low ability doesn't mean a player isn't able to hit onto something every once in a while, particularly as FM is using weighted random numbers in its match engine calculation in order to simulate real football rather than a static database. After all, by and large better players outperform worse players, but not always.

However despite agreeing that They are human and they are not perfect, still as company they can't treat costumers like that.

Can you provide an example of this? What I've seen is staff disagreeing with a player's assessment of the game, and that is something entirelly different. Personally I'm seeing PaulC asking people to send in their pkm files right in this thread, I've also witnessed SI staff giving tactics advice, asking for opinions on the 3d match engine, explaining match engine related stuff - all in a forums in which the tone grows worse with each release, apparently, and people opt to further clutter the forums with dedicating all-new threads on every single issue of theirs.

Furthermore, the vast majority of FM players aren't forum regulars, nor are they signed up here, so the forums are just that.. the forums.

It is basic marketing 101. The company not only has to provide good product, but also needs to have great after sale service (I don't recall the exact term). If they don't costumers have no problem to go elsewhere to find what they want.

Must be the reason why EA, considered by many to have some of the worst customer support out there, is the biggest publisher of video games. By the way, developers directly interacting with players isn't customer support per se - it's an additional "service" a developer might opt to offer or not. SI are doing this partly because they've been into everything they're doing from day one, starting out as a garage company consisting of two brothers getting the big deal done and expanding from there, and partly because they're interested into interacting with people who like their work. People they like to offer some help themselves. All of this despite it's becoming increasingly difficult to do - SI's profile is growing bigger with each release, as is their workload and secondary effects of all of this - press meetings, promotional work, coordinating an always growing staff and research teams... and of course keeping track of a forum growing from baby fat to just fat all along.

That's my assessment of this, and you can disagree with that if you like. In any case, such direct interaction between developer and player isn't a matter of course, it's rare, it's not a must as you don't pay any for their time spend here, and I find it weird to treat it as such up to the point where everyone's expecting every single issue to be adressed. Or something like that. At least that's my perception of what's happening on these forums. But then admittedly I'm not reading everything.

[wwfan]

Wasn't really being sarcastic, but can see why you thought so. The frustration is that there are plenty of other posters saying the same thing, but the answer is the same mantra "it's your tactics". You even guarantee so! The question is , how do my tactics mysteriously bestow the skills required to perform these feats to a numptie who clearly doesn't have the ability? You say there could be a number of reasons - lay some on me

As for a tactical breakdown, not so easy. To coin an appalling management buzz phrase, my tactics are a point in time thing - and I'm not in the habit of keeping tabs, or multiple saves. Safe to say, though, it's happened with a variety of setups.

And, most importantly, I do enjoy the game - a lot! Never been accused of ranting before - cool!

The first thing we need to realise is that the dots represent professional footballers. I've scored 30 yard screamers, and I don't come close to having the kind of ability even a Scottish Div 3 player has. Any professional footballer, given time and space, will be able at times to strike a mean shot at goal, even with an attribute of 3.

Given the above, there are various tactical factors that could cause your team to be conceding from them at an alarming rate.

1: Compressed midfield/defence which, when under pressure, only half clears balls. Not a common reason, but a few AI sides at lower levels have issues with. Only usually an issue against a side employing DMCs, as it opens space for them to have a crack.

2: Large mentality gap between the DCs and midfield, enabling opposing players to set for the shot as the DCs back off and before the MCs get back into cover positions.

3: Too deep d-line with too low closing down, enabling players to have a lot of time on the ball when 25-30 yards out. Will be magnified by complacency.

4: Having no MC on Defend Duty to cover in front of the d-line.

5: Pushing your wide player forward too aggressively, being caught on the break and seeing your DMC/MD geting dragged out of position to cover the space out wide, thus opening up the middle.

6: Over aggressive settngs on covering MCs, causing them to get caught out of position, get skinned and quickly tire.

7: Over aggressive settings on DCs, causing the same thing and resulting in very fatigued play late on in matches, which opens space ahead of the d-line.

[Marek_Hamsik]

God I hate posts where people tell me to thank the developers for making a game.

Why?

It's not like they made it, knocked on my door and tried to convert me to the wonderful product they made and how its a better choice to other products and I was given it for free?

I decided to purchase something and if its broken, it needs to be fixed.

I do thank SI however for always listening to the fans and trying to fix things up but thanking them for making FM? Nope sorry - it's a business.

I do not walk into a shop and thank them for making me a plate of food. However I will pay for the food and if I enjoy it, show my gratitude and come back for more next time.

[flashback790]

For the record, I wasn't comparing FM to FIFA, that would be stupid, my point was EA put in pointless features just to have something new in the game, maybe i'm wrong but it seems SI put in new features like press conferences and backroom advice because it is easier to advertise a new game if it has new features that they can put on the box and say 'LOOK THIS IS NEW' than it is to say 'ITS THE SAME GAME AS LAST YEAR, EXCEPT WITHOUT THE BUGS'. SI seem to be spending alot of time on new features and not focusing on the actual matches, and the matches are what made this game brilliant.The long shot debate-if someone like Lamps smacks it in from 30 yards, thats fine, if someone like Gary Neville smacks it in from 30 yards, don't you think something is wrong? In the FM demo, I was Wolves, Milijas with long shots of 19 couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, yet my opponents with awful long shot stats, couldn't miss, its the same in the actual game, at Port Vale i've got a midfielder with 16 long shots on mixed so that if the option is there he can smack it, and he does.....they end up in the car park but what can you do. And to the guy having a go at me, yes I expected to struggle this season, but there is a difference between struggling because i'm outplayed, and struggling because of bugs. Losing my best defender and both forwards to long term injuries didn't help either, or my £500,000 debt.

[Nicksy(Tiger_Fan)]

Just for anyone who was following my attempts to find a winning tactic on the first page after I got sacked I took over at Redditch and kept them up. Here's a shot of the league from my second season there.

[grade]

For the record, I wasn't comparing FM to FIFA, that would be stupid, my point was EA put in pointless features just to have something new in the game, maybe i'm wrong but it seems SI put in new features like press conferences and backroom advice because it is easier to advertise a new game if it has new features that they can put on the box and say 'LOOK THIS IS NEW' than it is to say 'ITS THE SAME GAME AS LAST YEAR, EXCEPT WITHOUT THE BUGS'. SI seem to be spending alot of time on new features and not focusing on the actual matches, and the matches are what made this game brilliant.The long shot debate-if someone like Lamps smacks it in from 30 yards, thats fine, if someone like Gary Neville smacks it in from 30 yards, don't you think something is wrong? In the FM demo, I was Wolves, Milijas with long shots of 19 couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, yet my opponents with awful long shot stats, couldn't miss, its the same in the actual game, at Port Vale i've got a midfielder with 16 long shots on mixed so that if the option is there he can smack it, and he does.....they end up in the car park but what can you do. And to the guy having a go at me, yes I expected to struggle this season, but there is a difference between struggling because i'm outplayed, and struggling because of bugs. Losing my best defender and both forwards to long term injuries didn't help either, or my £500,000 debt.

I agree with you and in short words the message that the ME in the last two versions with the 3D is: "You see this thing called stats? Just pick it up and throw it out the window."

[Blanchflower1]

FM 2010 is a great improvement over FM 2009, that's for sure!

[flashback790]

If you go back to FM08, the 2D engine was pretty much perfect, had its problems, but it worked, then SI put in the 3D in 09 and in ruins the 2D engine, it sems that was the moment SI started going for looks over substance. The joy of FM was that you didn't need a powerful computer with a great graphics card to play it, don't know why they changed tactics (ha, ha, tactics), but they need to go back to basics.

[pauly15]

I've beem working on 3 man defence for 10.2 today actually. Trying to improve the positioning and decision making of the 3 centre halves when defending.

But....if the wing backs or wide mids dont come back when defending you will get absolutely ripped down the flanks. IMHO it has to be done that way or AI teams playing it from their db settings will be hopeless.

Could you please have a look at the 352 with a Sweeper if you have time. The key thing needs to be that he has a special setting that makes him drop back and let his DC's deal with long balls etc etc..