Who designed the interface?

[Wildride]

I still think the FM 2006 skin was the best looking, 2007 was simular to it but not as good, 2008 started the white out and its been downhill from there, looking more and more like CM each time and I hate CM's interface, not to mention the game itself.. FM is a far superior product.

[JAndersson]

The interface in 10 is a nightmare really (which is a shame, given that it looks like a best FM ever) - in fact, the interface has been bad for a long time, and I'd say it wasn't great even back in the old CM days (although there was much less information and content there). And I'm not talking about the skin. There's a reason people complain about interface changes every time - it's because it only seems to be getting worse each time. If you can't make something really usable, simple and intuitive, then at least don't change it for the sake of changing it.

Again, most of the feedback has actually been positive this year.

The "Calendar" on the very top of the page. It only shows like 5 days (which is too short a span for anything you'd want to see or plan). You can't even see any events without an extra click on each of them. On most days there aren't even any events at all. Even on matchdays you only see a generic club crest, so it's not even useful as some sort of a short term weekly fixture list. I see the "idea" of linking it with the Continue button, but not the need to do to it. The non-existant usability of that bar means it shoudn't exist at all, much less at the top of the page.

This is a feature that will no doubt see further development in the future that will make it very useful. I agree that it doesn't live up to it's full potential at the moment though.

While we're at the Continue button, the idea to put it on top is counter-intuitive as well. Players first check the content on the screen, surfing through various pages, and when they are done reading what they wanted to read and playing out their "turn", then they want to progress the game by pressing the Continue button - so one would expect to find it at the bottom. It's just like Previous/Next buttons on installers aren't on top. End Turn buttons in most turn-based strategies are in the lower right corner too. There's a reason for that. That doesn't have to mean it has to blend so much in the bar that it's hard to spot (as it was on FM08/09) though.

True, but contrary to your installer example FM isn't the type of game where every page is read top left to bottom right, so the users attention (or mouse cursor) rarely ends up in the bottom right corner except for when there are "forms" where the user has to interact with the page (which is why the confirm and cancel buttons are in that location).

The bar just under the calendar has basically everything in it. Which is actually good - except the shortcut icons should've been added by default, and it should pretty much be the only bar we see on the main screen. Oh yes, and the main game menu hidden behind the little "FM" button thrown in the middle of nowhere is nothing short of sadistic.

The problem with icons as the main navigation is that you don't know which icon means what until you hover over it to read the tool-tip. Text is much clearer, and the use of drop-downs allows us to to group them in a way that makes the concept of "sections" a little bit clearer.

The FM icon has performed well in our testing, and there has been no indication on the forums since the release of the demo to indicate anything to the contrary.

On the bottom of that pile of bars is the largest manager bar with tabs - some of those tabs (which are largest of all active interface items) are almost never used during regular gameplay - Jobs, Profile, History, and I doubt many people use Notebook so much. Even Player Search is used sparingly when compared to day-to-day club running features, such as squad selection, fixture list, competitions and tactics screen. This bar draws the most attention, I would expect to be able to reach the most important features of the game by clicking one of the tabs. Again, I get the idea of having a manager-related bar, but again there's no real need for such a category. You're running a club, not yourself - focus should be on club-related information, and relevant features should never be difficult to spot or more than a single click away.

This is a design decision more than anything, and I can see argument both for and against the manager section. But the fact is that there is a separation between the human manager and the club in the game as you can move between clubs and manage multiple teams (club team and national team). It is a structure that isn't entirely clear to people that aren't used to our games, but it is a fundamental part of how the game works we are doing what we can to make it clearer.

Also, the "link" bar on the very bottom of the screen looks as if somebody tried to hide it, yet not quite remove it, on purpose. It's tiny and almost entirely blends in the background.

That's very much intentional as it is a power user feature.

[wyrley_saddler]

I like the new interface. It's a big improvement on the old one

[Arkim]

While I am in agreement that the user interface of FM needed a change of design (although not a complete overhaul), I am not completely satisfied with the current design. I've played the game for a few hours, which isn't much, but as an "experienced" FM gamer, I feel lost within the new interface. Again, that could and most likely is due to the interface being completely new to me.

Regardless, however, at the moment, I have lost all of the excitement of playing the game that I had as I was reading the blogs and watching the videos, and personally, a big chunk of that comes down to the user interface. I feel that I have to "dig" through the tabs and try to find my way around within the game. I feel lost within the game. It is possible that this is due to my familiarity with the "classic" FM skin, the sidebar skin. I really am at a loss with what to do so I can enjoy the game. I don't think I'll be activating through Steam but my only option now seems to be to wait for an unofficial skin by a community modder.

I hope that the new user interface will grow on me and allow me to get into the game, but from past experiences, complete overhauls have never won me over.

[cliff7197]

Most of the things I can just get used to, after all one person's like is another person's dislike.

However the continue button being in the top right corner is starting to give me RSI.

[Uquillas]

The problem is the interface is not Intuititive like the previous version

[footballfan08]

I'll admit I didn't like the "home" screen at first. It looked way too busy and crammed. However, I've started to get used it. But it took me forever to find the calender button lol. I felt really lost without my calender.

[lsg22]

Would be great if we can actually customise the "toolbar" and add shortcuts to various menus ourselves.

[JAndersson]

Would be great if we can actually customise the "toolbar" and add shortcuts to various menus ourselves.

Right click the menu bar to customize it

[phnompenhandy]

Pretty soon a rash of skins will be made by the graphics and skinning dudes and we'll have plenty of options. Just be patient.

[TomDixon77]

I don't think (though I hope I'm wrong) we're going to see a lot of skins using the new stuff, just more 09 style skins (unless skins that use the 09 skin as their base can still do the nifty stuff with the squad screen and menubar items). I'm having a right faff trying to come up with something that works and doesn't involve dropping bits entirely, or putting them in awkward places. It's far too bloody crowded at the top to do anything with it.

[Ackter]

True, but contrary to your installer example FM isn't the type of game where every page is read top left to bottom right, so the users attention (or mouse cursor) rarely ends up in the bottom right corner except for when there are "forms" where the user has to interact with the page (which is why the confirm and cancel buttons are in that location).

IIRC there's nothing actually in the bottom right of the screen - the yes/no buttons and other news items leave a considerable gap in the bottom right. It's the perfect size for adding a continue button, in a patch for example, hint

[perpatov]

Hi all: I've started a wee webpage to highlight the horrendous decision decisions in this version of FM.

sportsinteractivegripes.tumblr.com

I'm going to get around to documenting some of the mistakes you folks have noted here.

[Chris Ritchie]

As much as I opened that link hoping to find it was just a joke, I was impressed by the detail you've gone into on these small GUI issues. Do you do something along these lines for a living?

[fmobande]

what's interface?

[perpatov]

I do, but I don't think the problems we're documenting are in any way invisible to the layman. SI are notorious for having fairly ugly user interfaces, and in fairness to them it's something they're aware of (it's mentioned in almost all the reviews), but it's frustrating that they never seem to do anything about it.

From what I can make out they're designing by committee, which is a big mistake.

I've got plenty more posts to go up on there tonight.

[McMaster#28]

The only thing I would agree is the subscriptions inbox stuff. To get news about your club not in the inbox thing just seems strange.

[Chris Ritchie]

Maybe you'd be better just posting them all in the UI bugs forum?

[theboydonegood]

that website is really funny yet the guy who has made it obviously knows his stuff and the points are all on the money.

Silly interface this year far too many clicks and things that go against the grain in terms of how most other interfaces work

[Chris Ritchie]

I'm still on the fence with it. I want to like it but I do seem to be clicking more often than I'd like. I don't know if it's just because I'm putting it under scrutiny in a way that I didn't with the old UI but that's the way it seems. I'll have to see what the skinners do with the older style before deciding which way I'll go.

[perpatov]

Maybe you'd be better just posting them all in the UI bugs forum?

It's much more convenient to post them on Tumblr, and SI can subscribe over RSS

[theboydonegood]

when you hover your mouse over the calender at the top it should tell you what the event is without having to click

[berrysi]

I have to agree with sentiments made by Arkim and others, sure in time the new interface is something one may be able to get used to, but its certainly not something I can ever imagine myself liking or enjoying in its current form. I wouldn't have thought such a factor would swing the balance in my decision on if to buy the game or not, but its so far removed from something I feel I can or want to get used that it has affected my thinking.

[fmobande]

what's interface?

can someone answer this noobs question

[Chris Ritchie]

I have to agree with sentiments made by Arkim and others, sure in time the new interface is something one may be able to get used to, but its certainly not something I can ever imagine myself liking or enjoying in its current form. I wouldn't have thought such a factor would swing the balance in my decision on if to buy the game or not, but its so far removed from something I feel I can or want to get used that it has affected my thinking.

You can always download skins from the users here. I wouldn't have played FM08, FM09 or indeed FM10 with the default white skins because I absolutely despise them but it's easy enough to get something nicer on the forums.

[perpatov]

what's interface?

can someone answer this noobs question

Interface, or user interface, or UI, is all the assorted buttons, menus and inputs that you use to manage your team on FM. Everything within the FM window.

A glib person might answer, "interface is something SI spend 15 minutes on after they've finished the game."

It's also something SI have never really been very good at. It all looks like something a 15 year old web designer put together. There are a lot of elementary mistakes.

What's more important than UI is UX, which is a fashionable new term for "user experience", or how you feel and cope with the game.

A good metaphor for what SI experience with UX is a shopping website like Amazon. If Amazon make an interface that's A) As confusing as FM's (to the layman) or B) as unprofessional looking, then people don't buy from them because A) they can't find the ****ing checkout and B) they don't trust the people operating the store who can't kern a font properly.

[endemicFM]

I could never get into past versions of the game, as I was overwhelmed immediately. This version, for some reason, I "understood" right away. I think the interface is perfect!

[fmobande]

Interface, or user interface, or UI, is all the assorted buttons, menus and inputs that you use to manage your team on FM. Everything within the FM window.

A glib person might answer, "interface is something SI spend 15 minutes on after they've finished the game."

It's also something SI have never really been very good at. It all looks like something a 15 year old web designer put together. There are a lot of elementary mistakes.

What's more important than UI is UX, which is a fashionable new term for "user experience", or how you feel and cope with the game.

A good metaphor for what SI experience with UX is a shopping website like Amazon. If Amazon make an interface that's A) As confusing as FM's (to the layman) or B) as unprofessional looking, then people don't buy from them because A) they can't find the ****ing checkout and B) they don't trust the people operating the store who can't kern a font properly.

thanks for answering , good post to make me understand well:thup:

[JAndersson]

Hi all: I've started a wee webpage to highlight the horrendous decision decisions in this version of FM.

sportsinteractivegripes.tumblr.com

I'm going to get around to documenting some of the mistakes you folks have noted here.

I see someone else is a fan of adobe gripes.

Some good polish suggestions there, though I think you lack some of the finesse of the adobe gripes guy.

Some of them are a bit off as well, like magnifying glass not associated with search?!

[perpatov]

I see someone else is a fan of adobe gripes.

Some good polish suggestions there, though I think you lack some of the finesse of the adobe gripes guy.

Glad you're reading it and taking it in the right spirit FM is a seriously great game, it's just the interface that makes me want to tear my eyes out.

Some of them are a bit off as well, like magnifying glass not associated with search?!

You shouldn't associate magnifying glasses with search. They're better associated with Zooming or Enlarging text. Since that's, y'know, what they do

[Ackter]

Magnifying glasses are used to find things, like players and clubs

[perpatov]

Magnifying glasses are used to find things, like players and clubs

Well for this iteration of the search box, SI have just taken the search box from Apple's Safari browser, inverted the magnifying glass so it's pointing the other way, and had done with it.

Magnifying glasses can be used to denote search. That doesn't mean they should be. They are a much stronger metaphor for enlarging text. That's what a layman would assume they do. If there's no adequate metaphor then you need to just use text. "Search" is totally unambiguous.

[Ackter]

Taking pointless nit-picking to an absurd new level there.

Also "search" is considerably larger than a small icon.

[JAndersson]

You shouldn't associate magnifying glasses with search. They're better associated with Zooming or Enlarging text. Since that's, y'know, what they do

http://www.apple.com/ and http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx both disagree with you on that point

[Ackter]

Please put a continue in the big space in the bottom right Jesper

[RazvanRat]

I haven't played since FM 07, but I'm liking the new interface a lot.

Two comments, though. First, I can't find the page that would let me set my assistant to take control of friendlies. Where is it?

Second, it's annoying and misleading having the calendar display reserve/youth games in the same way as first team games. Can I suggest that for those, the club crest be smaller and have an R next to it (for reserve), a B (for B-team) or a Y (for youth)?

[malleria]

I think its just taking time to get used to what is a big revamp. I think the detail and look is classy and impresive, just need to get used to find our way round the game

[Ackter]

Its at the bottom of the menu with your Team Name on it.

[berrysi]

You can always download skins from the users here. I wouldn't have played FM08, FM09 or indeed FM10 with the default white skins because I absolutely despise them but it's easy enough to get something nicer on the forums.

That is indeed true and is something I hope will save me from not eventually getting the game, will just have to wait and see what develops I suppose.

[perpatov]

Taking pointless nit-picking to an absurd new level there.

Also "search" is considerably larger than a small icon.

*facepalm*

1) That's what UI Designers do. They nitpick. They make sure every little detail is correct. They obsess over these things.

2) According to Apple's HIG, which I assume SI are using, search labels should go inside the search input, and disappear when focus switches to the input. You're not thinking logically, Ackter: they have to have an input that's at least 6 characters wide, so they may as well put the search label in there

http://www.apple.com/ and http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx both disagree with you on that point

An appeal to popularity? Please. As I say, just because you can do something, that doesn't make it the appropriate choice. In any case, if you read the post which mentioned your misassociation of the magnifying glass with search then you've missed the point of the post almost entirely

[Ackter]

I think you missed the "pointless" part of my post, which your magnifying glass argument is.

[perpatov]

I think you missed the "pointless" part of my post, which your magnifying glass argument is.

Sorry, I'm not following you. A slightly lazily constructed sentence if you don't mind my saying so. It looks like you're disregarding empirical evidence and labelling it pointless? I'm unsure what to do with that, really.

If you are saying it's a pointless argument, then you can rest assured that your misunderstanding is why my level of expertise is interface design and yours is whatever yours is

FWIW, you didn't say pointless anywhere in your post. But I get the feeling you aren't as keen on logic as I am Corrected!

[Ackter]

Try re-reading the post, this time paying attention to every word - in particular the word "pointless" which is the second word in the post you quoted.

Your tone of response when someone disagrees with you is something you really need to work on - condescending at best, insulting even.

[perpatov]

Try re-reading the post, this time paying attention to every word - in particular the word "pointless" which is the second word in the post you quoted.

Your tone of response when someone disagrees with you is something you really need to work on - condescending at best, insulting even.

You're right, I missed that. Sorry!

I'm only being condescending because your response to a reasonably worded logical argument was to say it was pointless.

[Ackter]

Which is my opinion - the magnifying glass is widely used enough that pretty much everyone associates it with a search.

[Ackter]

Although I've just noticed an inconsistency with it - the search bar for news items contains no icon or text. It's just a blank text box.

[perpatov]

Which is my opinion - the magnifying glass is widely used enough that pretty much everyone associates it with a search.

Finally we get to your opinion Well you're entitled to it. I'm just saying that if you used a text label within the search field, you'd change your above statement from "pretty much everyone" to "absolutely everyone." It's better design.

[Ackter]

I wouldn't object to having the text box display "search", but I just don't see the need to remove the magnifying glass.

[JAndersson]

*facepalm*

An appeal to popularity? Please. As I say, just because you can do something, that doesn't make it the appropriate choice. In any case, if you read the post which mentioned your misassociation of the magnifying glass with search then you've missed the point of the post almost entirely

No, I see your point, but it was that part of that post I disagreed with. I'm not sure how it's going to benefit either one of us to argue over every point you make, but you're welcome to email me if you want to

A magnifying glass is well adopted standard for search, it's used pretty much everywhere. You may disagree with it for whatever reason, but I can't see a scenario where it's changing anytime soon. The fact is most people do associate it with search.

[theboydonegood]

When I hover my mouse over the estimated game speed stars on the 'detail level' screen FM helpfully points out that this is the star ratiing for my senior team.