Do you feel AI Managers have any discernable personality?

This is a topic I'm slightly unsure can be addressed, but it's one that's been nagging away at me for a few days.

Can you name many of the AI managers in your current division?

I'm approaching this from the following perspective - I'm currently in March of 2014/15. I've got 2 managers in the same game, one whose risen to manage Marseille, and the other whose been at Barcelona the whole time. The example to use is the Barcelona manager, mainly because I've played in that league the most.

In a division of 20 teams, none stand out as having any personality. Teams like Real Madrid and Valencia are soulless, anaemic collections of players, undoubtedly superstars, but with no recognisable theme behind them. What do I mean? Arsenal of old played hard-working, boring, dour football, replaced with attractive attacking football, made up mainly of foreign players and youth. Manchester United have always looked for attractive football, with a penchant for signing 'big' players, Van Nistelrooys, Rio Ferdinands, rather than the cheaper youths of Arsenal.

When I look at the league my Barcelona team is in, I can't detect any such personality, in either a club or a manager. Perhaps it's nitpicking, but it doesn't seem the best way to establish the proper emotional connection with your league. I want to be part of the league, rather than merely winning it.

Why am I saying all of this? What I would like to see is twofold.

Firstly, some kind of club philosophy would be nice. Certainly nothing set in stone, but an Ajax Amsterdam 4-3-3 attacking style, Manchester United and attacking teams, Spurs always looking to be attractive and so on so forth.

Secondly: Managers personalities need to be more defined. I want to feel that a José Mourinho is going to send out a well organised, defensive and direct team. I want to see signings that suit that, and tactics that are applicable, and also... detectable. I really do struggle to see if a team's playing direct football or short passing, defensive or attacking. Furthermore, the style of players they like should be more discernible. If manager X prefers fitness based players, show that in terms of the players he signs. If Manager Y likes lot's of individual skill, lot's of flair, I want to see that too.

This is a topic I'm slightly unsure can be addressed, but it's one that's been nagging away at me for a few days.

Can you name many of the AI managers in your current division?

I'm approaching this from the following perspective - I'm currently in March of 2014/15. I've got 2 managers in the same game, one whose risen to manage Marseille, and the other whose been at Barcelona the whole time. The example to use is the Barcelona manager, mainly because I've played in that league the most.

In a division of 20 teams, none stand out as having any personality. Teams like Real Madrid and Valencia are soulless, anaemic collections of players, undoubtedly superstars, but with no recognisable theme behind them. What do I mean? Arsenal of old played hard-working, boring, dour football, replaced with attractive attacking football, made up mainly of foreign players and youth. Manchester United have always looked for attractive football, with a penchant for signing 'big' players, Van Nistelrooys, Rio Ferdinands, rather than the cheaper youths of Arsenal.

When I look at the league my Barcelona team is in, I can't detect any such personality, in either a club or a manager. Perhaps it's nitpicking, but it doesn't seem the best way to establish the proper emotional connection with your league. I want to be part of the league, rather than merely winning it.

Why am I saying all of this? What I would like to see is twofold.

Firstly, some kind of club philosophy would be nice. Certainly nothing set in stone, but an Ajax Amsterdam 4-3-3 attacking style, Manchester United and attacking teams, Spurs always looking to be attractive and so on so forth.

Secondly: Managers personalities need to be more defined. I want to feel that a José Mourinho is going to send out a well organised, defensive and direct team. I want to see signings that suit that, and tactics that are applicable, and also... detectable. I really do struggle to see if a team's playing direct football or short passing, defensive or attacking. Furthermore, the style of players they like should be more discernible. If manager X prefers fitness based players, show that in terms of the players he signs. If Manager Y likes lot's of individual skill, lot's of flair, I want to see that too.

Yeah but then wouldnt your example contradict itself if mourinho took over ajax???

That's another point, his style (of play) was unpopular with his chairman. That makes the job bloody difficult.

Look at it this way, Wenger revolutionised Arsenal's style of play, but a less successful example would be Sammy Lee at Bolton. If you can succeed then you should be able to slowly change a team's avowed style, but certainly the fans would need time to adapt, and the board etc, and the game should reflect that. (If any of this is possible ofc )

Not to the extent that you seem to want, but if you make gloating or friendly comments through the press, the other managers in your league will become more vocal toward you.

So if you want you league to have a less professional personality, start stirring the pot.

Excellent thread!

I too want to see managers looking for specific attributes.

And clubs to be looking for managers that suit their personality. For example, in the greek league, Panathinaikos should be looking for (managers that are looking for) teamwork, work rate, professionalism and low controversy, Olympiacos should be looking for (managers that are looking for) flair and dribbling, PAOK should be looking for determination, AEK for technique etc!

This is certainly possible to be done and would be great too!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hdogie:

Not to the extent that you seem to want, but if you make gloating or friendly comments through the press, the other managers in your league will become more vocal toward you.

So if you want you league to have a less professional personality, start stirring the pot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...anyway exellant post Scath!!

I remeber a feeling of my 1st CMs experiences. I know I was a kid, but I think those games were much more in time then these. with quality of nowdays computers, I realy think this game has stuck somewhere in last years. of course I'm not saying there is no progress, but look where are we now. some critising, other claiming it's the best, many of people I knew who were playing this game, quited. if you add our half year waiting for the patch to all that, and game having flaws in every feature, something is just not right.

your suggestion is realy cool, like many other suggestions as well. I just hope SI didn't decided for EA phylosophy; "each year one little feature".-> and we should be happy.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scath:

That's another point, his style (of play) was unpopular with his chairman. That makes the job bloody difficult.

Look at it this way, Wenger revolutionised Arsenal's style of play, but a less successful example would be Sammy Lee at Bolton. If you can succeed then you should be able to slowly change a team's avowed style, but certainly the fans would need time to adapt, and the board etc, and the game should reflect that. (If any of this is possible ofc ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do get what your saying but things can change so much, I dont think it would be worth implementing.

As we discussed - Arsenal, late 90's were a world apart from the early 90's.

Mourinhos style wouldnt suit Ajax.

The points you made about Man utd - (given the week that it is) was completely at odds with how busby built his team.

Then the point about fans/chairmen adapting.

What if a takeover occured?

Just to re-iterate how things change...

7 or 8 years ago would believe fulham or wigan would sack a manager for avoiding relegation from the top flight?

In 1992 would newcastle have been devasted to be a mid table prem side?

7 years ago would leeds be sad to lose dennis wise?

27 years ago would Notts Forest have been pleased to get a result against the likes of swansea?

I could go on and on, but you get my drift.

I really dont think it could work.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scath:

That's another point, his style (of play) was unpopular with his chairman. That makes the job bloody difficult.

Look at it this way, Wenger revolutionised Arsenal's style of play, but a less successful example would be Sammy Lee at Bolton. If you can succeed then you should be able to slowly change a team's avowed style, but certainly the fans would need time to adapt, and the board etc, and the game should reflect that. (If any of this is possible ofc ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do get what your saying but things can change so much, I dont think it would be worth implementing.

As we discussed - Arsenal, late 90's were a world apart from the early 90's.

Mourinhos style wouldnt suit Ajax.

The points you made about Man utd - (given the week that it is) was completely at odds with how busby built his team.

Then the point about fans/chairmen adapting.

What if a takeover occured?

Just to re-iterate how things change...

7 or 8 years ago would believe fulham or wigan would sack a manager for avoiding relegation from the top flight?

In 1992 would newcastle have been devasted to be a mid table prem side?

7 years ago would leeds be sad to lose dennis wise?

27 years ago would Notts Forest have been pleased to get a result against the likes of swansea?

I could go on and on, but you get my drift.

I really dont think it could work.

Cudman - I can well understand your points, all of them. In fact those would be worries I would have too.

You mentioned boards changing - well what if a new board doesn't like your style - maybe they'll sack you. Maybe they'll make you change. Would it annoy me if that happened to me, yeah, but it's realistic. It happens to managers.

I know things couldn't be concrete - but suggest a team philosophy, let it change, but make us work to change it. If United start the game as an attacking team, and I take over and introduce defensive dour boring football, make the board and fans question it, even hate it, and make sure I get sacked unless I get results that are properly impressive.

Keep in mind that Fabio Capello one La Liga, only to get sacked. So far Real aren't regretting that are they?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scath:

Cudman - I can well understand your points, all of them. In fact those would be worries I would have too.

You mentioned boards changing - well what if a new board doesn't like your style - maybe they'll sack you. Maybe they'll make you change. Would it annoy me if that happened to me, yeah, but it's realistic. It happens to managers.

I know things couldn't be concrete - but suggest a team philosophy, let it change, but make us work to change it. If United start the game as an attacking team, and I take over and introduce defensive dour boring football, make the board and fans question it, even hate it, and make sure I get sacked unless I get results that are properly impressive.

Keep in mind that Fabio Capello one La Liga, only to get sacked. So far Real aren't regretting that are they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats what it all comes down to.

If you dont get results you will get the boot anyway.

Im not arguing with you but im just stating that there are thousands of sugestions that pop up in here that wouldnt really have any affect on the game but some people would like to see implemented.

It just comes down to opinions.

Oh, and madrid arent regretting it YET.

Perhaps the reason they are not as dominant as they were in the past is because they sack managers willy nilly (so to speak)

I know, but that's the club they are. That's what I'd like to see reflected more.

Real Madrid are at times bloody stupid, but they have personality, if you get me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scath:

I know, but that's the club they are. That's what I'd like to see reflected more.

Real Madrid are at times bloody stupid, but they have personality, if you get me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep i get ya loud and clear.

But that back up my point about how things change in the future.

As most spanish teams have presidents instead of chairmen, there is always going to be different personalities in control every couple of years.

I agree with the original post.

Right now, there doesn't seem to be anything that makes teams stick in my mind. And as a result it gets boring after a while, since it's simply a different team-name and logo I'm playing against on match day.

I think the atmosphere could be greatly improved if clubs and managers had unique personalities and styles, like I think Scath is saying. Then we could actually get excited for some matches, and/or dread others.

Great post, totally agree.

I thought all non-playing staff already did have preferred formations, tactics, etc....

And teams have their favoured styles of play entered in the database. Do these not have an in-game effect?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cudman:

Most spanish teams have presidents instead of chairmen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never played a Spanish save game long enough to find out, mainly giving it two seasons at the most but, and I know its kinda off topic, do Presidential elections take place? Obviously this has a huge bearing on the club, for example, Real Madrid's President (whose name escapes me) sacking Capello due to his supposedly negative approach, despite winning the league title! Even the situation at Real Sociedad with Chris Coleman was mainly down to the change of President, the new one being an arse apparently!

I'm yet to notice an election.

Oh and Sad Git mentioned staff personalities etc, the question I'd ask is, do you see them having an effect?

i think managers already do have a favoured style of play i think this could advance into fans/countries having a favoured style allerdyce (spelling?) and england boos last night but to make another big change without perfecting the current game would cause a bit of bother.

we just need to be a bit patient i think, the game is nowhere near perfect but si have ppl wanting the game fixing and new stuff being brought out all the time but its still by far the best management game

Both clubs and managers have favorite formation, passing style etc, but I seriously doubt that it affects the kind of players they buy. It may have an effect on the position of the player they buy, but does it affect his "style"? I wouldn't think so.

A while back there was a thread about how managers should be prioritizing the shortlisted players. IIRC, it suggested something like having a hierarchy of three groups of shortlisted players, players they are dying for, players they want, and players they would only buy if they could get them cheap.

So maybe, the style of a footballer should also be taken to account. Position, Ability and Reputation should not be enough. Attributes are already divided in 8 training categories. So, each manager could have a rating of how much he likes each one.

For example, manager X's style could be:

Strength: 20 (likes his players to be strong)

Ball Control: 5

Set pieces: 1 (not a factor)

etc

Then, when he shortlisted a player, he would prioritize him not only according to his Ability and position, but according to his style too.

In my game Ivica Cacic of NEC plays 4-2-4 for the entire 90mins of every match.

It's shockingly effective. Other AI managers are as bad at dealing with it as I am.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lyssien:

Both clubs and managers have favorite formation, passing style etc, but I seriously doubt that it affects the kind of players they buy. It may have an effect on the position of the player they buy, but does it affect his "style"? I wouldn't think so.

A while back there was a thread about how managers should be prioritizing the shortlisted players. IIRC, it suggested something like having a hierarchy of three groups of shortlisted players, players they are dying for, players they want, and players they would only buy if they could get them cheap.

So maybe, the style of a footballer should also be taken to account. Position, Ability and Reputation should not be enough. Attributes are already divided in 8 training categories. So, each manager could have a rating of how much he likes each one.

For example, manager X's style could be:

Strength: 20 (likes his players to be strong)

Ball Control: 5

Set pieces: 1 (not a factor)

etc

Then, when he shortlisted a player, he would prioritize him not only according to his Ability and position, but according to his style too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This seems like a brilliant idea to me. Managers in FM have always been too similar for me.

Combine the types of players the manager likes to buy along with more distinct tactical models seems like the way forward.

If SI were able, although I understand how difficult it might be, it would be great if different managers had different styles and tones when dealing with the media. You could have a handful of media sets, based on personalities (eloquent speakers, direct and to the point etc) to give them more individuality.

Good post. AI managers all behave in exactly the same way. FM2008 has improved slightly as they all don't go to 3-3-2-1-1 at the first slight hint of trouble, but they all still essentially react to in-game situations the same.

Very important issue, well put. Let's hope the (near) future will bring improvements!

We can but hope.

Same thing with the board.

I've been thinking the same thing for a while now...

Would revolutionise the game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nick...:

In my game Ivica Cacic of NEC plays 4-2-4 for the entire 90mins of every match.

It's shockingly effective. Other AI managers are as bad at dealing with it as I am. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr.Riijkard tried that with me in the CL final of 2009, and I counter-attacked the **** of him with the help of Torres as target man and distribution set as "run on ball".

I led Liverpool against his Barca.

Great idea, nothing to add but i feel the more people get behind good ideas like this the better. It'd be nice to hear from someone at SI saying if this is possible.

Ah SI can't be expected to reply to everything on their forums.

I think that this should happen but it should be implemented slowly. Remember CM4. If you try to change things a lot you are bound to make a lot of mistakes and i see this as being difficult to properly put in the game.

I agree though, it would be great idea if it is put into the game

Great idea since this is football manager afterall. I'd like to test my wits against the different styles of AI managers. I know this is already implemented to same extent, but regardless of who's managing Atletico, it feels the same - and Aguero always rips my defence apart but that's a different story.

i agree with the main idea, teams and managers should have more personality. I have seen lots of "weird" transfers, and I agree that it happens often IRL, but in fm2008 transfers are quite unexpected. Also I have no idea about well known manager tactics in a new team.

In spain managers as capello are not truly welcome. Real Madrid bought him to win a trophy, he did that, and then goodbye. Barcelona can't buy him, they are used to play beautiful football, with dutch and brazilian players and with one or more technical CM's. In fm2008 after few seasons teams lose identity.

Another thing that annoys me is that IRL small teams buy players from local area, players don't travel more than 100km if they can play in a nearer club for about the same money, and never if their wages are under 400€/week. One thing I have seen is that after some seasons 80% of players playing in welsh league are English. Maybe 75%, maybe 85% (best clubs have more english players). being a small league, I find it quite weird, in 2024 10 of 10 top players are english.

Actually that is interesting, the Irish teams in my league are all full of English players, as are the Scottish (and the Welsh would be too I reckon, if I checked.) Seems unusual alright.

I really do agree with the loss of identity. It just makes the encounters seem weird and silly after a while. I much prefer long term games, simply because I prefer it being my team, and my players, but it's sad that those players are so radically different to the style of players that went before.

Tottally agree, and one thing that can be added to this discussion wich is related and something that I long for for some time now is the kind of youngesters that come from the u-19.

I'm a Sporting (Lisbon) fan and everybody knows our youth system, especially these last few players in recent years. Sporting is renowned for their thechnichaly refined midfielders players, especially wingers.

Porto on the other hand has the hard-working mentallity school - that goes with the club - and usually brings up combative DM and commanding center backs.

Benfica is a little off, but trying to get there. Hopefully with the strikers, wich we lack in the national team...

My point beeing, with all of this, is that a team (board of directors, manager and supporters) has, or should have an influence in the type of players that come thru the ranks.

That's an interesting take on the issue. Certain clubs certainly have an affection for certain types of players, and that'd obviously suggest that the clubs would like those kind of players, possibly suggesting increased numbers of them coming from the youth setup.

I definitely feel like the preferred formation of managers gives them a feeling of personality. In my story over in FMS, I was trying to pay attention to it enough to be able to call things out, and three managers really stood out to me.

Mourinho, of course, at Chelsea, was always in a 4-5-1 so unique from what other teams were running that I found it almost unstoppable - and not just because of the players at his disposal. I spent a significant amount of time working on tactics to send out against him!

Javier Clemente - it was an FM'05 game - played an exceptionally defensive style. Sitting back like he did meant that he got a lot of 0-0 draws, and was a horrible appointment for a "top" team, as they wouldn't take 3 points often enough to make their European target. (I wished I could appoint him to a relegation battler, as I suspect it would have worked very well for getting 38 points and survival with a questionable team.)

Peter Taylor was an obviously up-and-coming young star, and did very well no matter which club he took over. I was outraged when a long-suffering Manchester United sacked him while he had the club in second, for not beating Mourinho. He'd done nothing but improve the club while at the helm, and just 'cause he couldn't take the top spot! ..

Anyways, yes, those were three managers I can name off the top of my head from that save game ..

The first clearly gave me the "I dread playing him" feeling. The latter two were so predictable that you could tell, when Clemente took over a 3rd-place team, that they were doomed.. or that, when Taylor took over a mid-table side, that they'd be pushing for Europe by the end of the following season.

. . . .

That said, I do feel like the tactical changes that clubs make during the course of the game may be a bit too similar - for example, the 4-2-4 for chasing games. It would be nice if some managers eschewed it, and others went to some other formations.

As for "club philosophy", I'd like to see the whole "preferred formation" thing developed a bit more. For example, if I've got a nice 4-5-1, maybe Man U refuse to hire me because the board think the fans want a 4-4-2 manager. Maybe Ajax give a preference to 4-3-3 managers.

. . . .

Chairmen, obviously, have personalities - some are more ambitious than others, some have more patience, some will free up money to spend freely, some will be misers.

I'd like to see that pushed a lot more heavily, until we get to the point that different chairmen measure success in different ways: for example, there are NFL owners who don't care about success on the pitch as long as the club makes a profit. I'd love to try and overcome a lethargic chairman like that in FM!

. . . .

As far as the signings, that feels like a real problem area to me.

I understand from some of the editor folks that there are values you can set to push a manager towards preferring youth or veterans, preferring domestic players or going abroad, and similar.

You might look at firing up the editor, and setting up a bunch of test-managers in it to see how strong an effect those managers might have in-game.

From my experience, the differences in personality between AI managers come across as quite cosmetic. We're able to research a rival manager's background in the form of previous clubs, preferred formations, and favored players, but when it comes to the actual game I know I rarely notice a difference in games that I would attribute to the manager. Occasionally the commentator's will remark about the opposing manager's halftime talk or an opposing manager will take a shot at some mind games the week before a match, but it's usually an exception rather than the rule. That's not to say that there's isn't a significant between AI managers, just that the differences are often lost on me.

Personally I favor a lot of the ideas in this thread, especially Amaroq's suggestions, but mostly I would hope that SI works on drawing out the already existing personalities. It feels like FM could use more "story-telling" to it, letting you feel like you actually know the characters you're dealing with, both managers and players. Currently any individual can go looking for that story-telling depth, but it's outside the realm of the typical user's gameplay. It'd be spectacular to feel truly immersed in the manager's role to the point where you actively relate to the personality of the other managers and players around you.

For me, the answer to this is a wider AND deeper array of media interactions between board, manager, AI managers, and players. Let the answers I give in response to the media and other managers or players affect my popularity with my board and fans. If I take on the persona of a Mourinho (who I personally love), let it show that fan's of other teams begin to resent my brash style and react with "here he goes again" thoughts. If a manager constantly signs promising youth, the media should remark on whether the coach or board is trying to mimic Arsene Wenger. If Barcelona signs a manager who plays defense like a 90's German national team, play up the resulting strife from the "overly" defensive football.

Essentially I'm looking for more realistc interactions like the one I had about a month ago: I had an amazingly talented (but temperamental) star who's already signed a deal to move on because he's accomplished all he can at my club, which is frustrating but realistic. He happens to pick up a red in a game for two weak yellow cards late in the game so I fine him two weeks wages; he responds the day after and tells me that I'm taking advantage of him just because he's on the way out...and he was exactly right! I had to laugh because I felt the game had gotten that interaction perfectly right, and that there was plenty of depth and richness to my interactions with that flamboyant, temperamental star. Even after he left my club I found myself checking up on him because he felt almost like a real person to me after that. It's more moments like that which would add another layer of depth to the AI managers.

Ow yes, you are spot on there hyperion479. The media interaction should be expanded with a lot of possible answers and options.

Perhaps enhanceed media work would help.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If Barcelona signs a manager who plays defense like a 90's German national team, play up the resulting strife from the "overly" defensive football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah - I make this kind of stuff up in my head, but I would love love love to start getting fan feedback about how they're dissatisfied with my 1-0 wins and want to see some "real football".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq:

Yeah - I make this kind of stuff up in my head, but I would love love love to start getting fan feedback about how they're dissatisfied with my 1-0 wins and want to see some "real football". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ding ding ding.

Much like I'd love them to reintroduce the "unhappy with the sale of..." message.

I can sell anyone with impunity, but woe betide me if I buy a 100k backup U18 goalie!

Yeah, I remember that.

Given that I gave E'too the heave at 28, I'd have thought the fans would be unhappy with that.