Dear SI: 2D match engine: Speed/"Frame rate"

Dear SI,

some people, including me, experience a stuttering 2D match despite 3D being turned off in the preferences. Is this something which might see an improvement in future patches or is it not high enough on the priority list? Or is it maybe just a natural consequence of the added calculations in the match engine?

I know that not everybody has this problem, so any hints about how to improve 2D "frame rates" are welcome!

--

PC specs:

1,6 GHz Pentium M

1 Gig Ram

ATI X600 Graphics with latest Omega driver

I havent bought FM09 yet because the demo stuttered massively in the 2D view.

Despite posting in the bugs/match view forum there hasnt been a response yet on whether this will be addressed.

I really hope it is. I dont care so much about the 3D, but the poor performance of the 2D is a dealbreaker.

Yes, same here. For now, I can live with a not optimized 3D code. But at least I want to play in 2D without getting mad because of the stuttering.

So, is this on the radar for further tweaking?

Dear SI,

some people, including me, experience a stuttering 2D match despite 3D being turned off in the preferences. Is this something which might see an improvement in future patches or is it not high enough on the priority list? Or is it maybe just a natural consequence of the added calculations in the match engine?

I know that not everybody has this problem, so any hints about how to improve 2D "frame rates" are welcome!

--

PC specs:

1,6 GHz Pentium M

1 Gig Ram

ATI X600 Graphics with latest Omega driver

Your PC is quite significantly under the recommended minimum specifications for the game; this is why your are suffering from a jerky engine.

i had the same problem in TV mode on my mac, whilst it has better spec i dont think the inboard graphics helped with mine; however if you turn the speed to about 3/4 and use normal classic 2d view the stuttering should stop (as it has for me and several others)

skorp, PaulC.

I run FM09 on a Sony Vaio with dual core 1.8GHz CPU and 2GB of RAM with a 128MB ATI Radeon Graphics.

3D works very well BUT 2D is very jerky.....FM08 ran a treat.

There is definitaley an issue with 2D....

Did you run FM2008 on this machine?

Yes, and it was running absolutely fine, as all previous games from SI. Please remember, I am not talking about 3D here.

Edit:

Except for the graphics card I fullfill the specs, skorp!

Same with me and even the demo ran better on 2d than it does in the patched game.

I agree. It seems SI's response is "it must be your pc" but when it happens to many people with different specs, its time to fix the code

If its an online game I have transfer budgets, if its my own game I like it realistic so I leave them out

2D game stuttering and jerky on my machine. Also leaves images of where players were even though match/players moved on. Another really annoying thing is the length of time that it takes to 'Set up Match'. It seems to sit there for an age with a blank screen before the match comes up.

Spec of machine:

Pentium 4 2.6ghz

512mb Ram

Radeon 9700 graphics card

200gb Hard drive (25% used)

Also updated for patches and dxdsk drivers and dotnet.fix.

Think the game needs a second patch.

pretty sad 1gb of ram wont run the game smoothly.

ironically, i just ordered another 1gb of ram SPECIFICALLY for this game when I play it on my old trusty desktop. that puts me at 1.5gb total on that station, crosses fingers its enough for 2D mode. otherwise ill have to play exclusively on my laptop.

youd think you wouldnt need a massive system to run a 2d game of roaming dots!

My computer has a 2.6ghz Pentium 4 processer, Nvidia 5600 Geforce graphics card and 512 ram. I realise the card is slightly under the minimum specs, but when I switched on the FM09 demo it did not turn off the 3D and it actually worked (albeit with delays and stuttering).

But I thought no problem, just turn off the 3D. But that was just as bad as the 3D.

My computer ran FM08 with no problems at all, so am a little dissapointed by this.

a paste from easy info

Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)

System Memory 959.5

Processor Speed 2188.7

DirectX Version 9.0c

Display Device ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series

Display Memory 256.0

only play commentary only now as 3d and 2d too slow guess i need to try the dxdsx maybe thatll work better

edit: directx sdk

So, we have a wide range of machines which have problems displaying the 2D (!) match, with homerjnick at the top end (2 gigs of ram etc). Almost everybody seems to be able to run FM08 without such problems.

So, FM09 has problems to show the 2D match on some machines. Is this being looked into and possibly improved in a future patch? Otherwise I will probably stop playing FM for now until I have a new machine.

Lots of ram alone does not make a decent pc. You can have lots of ram and a crappy processor and it'll struggle.

Lots of ram alone does not make a decent pc. You can have lots of ram and a crappy processor and it'll struggle.

yet nobody had a problem with FM08.

im hoping that by adding 1gb of ram to a system that ran FM08 flawlessly will run FM09 somewhat smooth.

Lots of ram alone does not make a decent pc. You can have lots of ram and a crappy processor and it'll struggle.

That´s right, Serpico. But please take a look at the details of some of the systems described in this thread, they are not all low-end computers. And please also notice that PaulC acknowledged that there might be a problem, and that we are talking about machines that could run FM08 without any hazzle.

Now, if FM09 calculates things differently than FM08 and that´s just the way it is, I can live with that. I might play another game instead or at some point buy a new computer. I just wanted to know if this is recognized as a problem (it seems so, see above) and if there is hope for an improvement.

If you are playing with an under-spec computer, you should not expect any future patches or improvements to make much of a difference. While some PCs may have been good enough to run FM08, the minimum requirements for FM09 are greater than that of FM08... this has been made clear from the beginning. Just because it ran last year's game fine does not mean it will do so this year... it is a little silly to expect a game with ever improving technologies to be playable on ever ageing machines. Would you expect to be able to run, say for example, a game like Quake 4 with a machine as old as Quake 3? Electronic technology moves forward constantly and to expect the company to design a game that runs on very old, under/poor spec machines would eat significantly more time into the dev cycle.

We understand that it can be frustrating. For those with recommended spec PCs or above you indeed have a right to the best performance possible. For those with under minimum spec PCs you really can't expect that much: after all, technically speaking you are lucky that it even runs! The best thing to do if you have an under spec PC is to upgrade.

2D game stuttering and jerky on my machine. Also leaves images of where players were even though match/players moved on. Another really annoying thing is the length of time that it takes to 'Set up Match'. It seems to sit there for an age with a blank screen before the match comes up.

Spec of machine:

Pentium 4 2.6ghz

512mb Ram

Radeon 9700 graphics card

200gb Hard drive (25% used)

Also updated for patches and dxdsk drivers and dotnet.fix.

Think the game needs a second patch.

I had the same problem when I first brought the game. I had jerky 2d and the game would take ages to set up the match and even load day to day. I only had 512mb Ram though which is the minimum for FM2009. I brought 1gig from play.com for 14.99 and now it runs like a dream with 1.5 gig. Maybe you should upgrade?

I had the same problem when I first brought the game. I had jerky 2d and the game would take ages to set up the match and even load day to day. I only had 512mb Ram though which is the minimum for FM2009. I brought 1gig from play.com for 14.99 and now it runs like a dream with 1.5 gig. Maybe you should upgrade?

If FM08's 2D runs fine then so should this, there's nothing different that I can see from the two versions except that FM09 has a frame rate issue.

Skorp: The only Spec that I might miss is the graphics card, right? Is this relevant to the 2D match?

While I think that your talk about new technologies etc is a bit strange when looking at our good old fashioned 2D match engine you of course have a point. And as I said, if FM09 just does more calculations and this can´t be changed, then I am fine with that.

Im having lots of laggy, jerky 2D matches as well, funny as the 3D runs fine, just prefer 2D. Also if someone gets caught offside and it happens when im watching, that offside info message will stay on the pitch until the end of the half. Also sometimes when I move my players around in the tactics screen they multiply and I have 15 players. Wouldnt really mind if I could have 15 David Nobles on the pitch in real life....

Spec of machine:

Pentium 4 3.4ghz

1gb Ram

Radeon x600 256mb graphics card

200gb Hard drive (50% used)

I agree than if FM 08 runs fine than this should too, but the problem is that is doesn't and the specs required to run even 2D must have changed as well.

08 was great on my laptop but 09 just blows.

I agree than if FM 08 runs fine than this should too, but the problem is that is doesn't and the specs required to run even 2D must have changed as well.

08 was great on my laptop but 09 just blows.

I'd be interested to know actually - what is the graphical difference between 09 and 08's 2D match view? Because their clearly is one, given all the people (myself included) who could run 08 easily and yet have problems with stuttering in 09.

Superficially, the only difference seems to be the advertising hoardings - but surely they're not to blame?

My 3D runs better than 2D Classic. There is a 100% problem here which needs addressing.

If you are playing with an under-spec computer, you should not expect any future patches or improvements to make much of a difference. While some PCs may have been good enough to run FM08, the minimum requirements for FM09 are greater than that of FM08... this has been made clear from the beginning. Just because it ran last year's game fine does not mean it will do so this year... it is a little silly to expect a game with ever improving technologies to be playable on ever ageing machines. Would you expect to be able to run, say for example, a game like Quake 4 with a machine as old as Quake 3? Electronic technology moves forward constantly and to expect the company to design a game that runs on very old, under/poor spec machines would eat significantly more time into the dev cycle.

We understand that it can be frustrating. For those with recommended spec PCs or above you indeed have a right to the best performance possible. For those with under minimum spec PCs you really can't expect that much: after all, technically speaking you are lucky that it even runs! The best thing to do if you have an under spec PC is to upgrade.

Totally Agree with you.

I have an under spec machine and I really don't expect it to run perfectly at the moment. I am planning to upgrade my computer over the next couple of weeks, but I am extremely happy that I can play the game on my machine today. Yes the 2d is jerky but that is my fault not anyone else's.

I am loving the game so far

I also have an issue with jerky 2D matches. It's very frustrating. I've disabled the 3D - but to no avail. Like you all, FM08 ran fine.

It's ridiculous to say that Stormwind City's PC is too bad to run the game in 2D without any lags. I mean it's just 2D!? It's not FarCry. I have the same problem, too. Though my PC is good enough to run the game (2,2Ghz, 1,5GB Ram, ATI Radeon X600 Pro), it's laggy. Furthermore I can't understand why we need such good PCs to play a game with graphics from 1995 without any lags. I'm really disappointed with the new FM.

I also have this problem but can run Call of Duty 5 fine its pretty crappy imo

Does anybody with 2GB RAM have this problem?

If you are playing with an under-spec computer, you should not expect any future patches or improvements to make much of a difference. While some PCs may have been good enough to run FM08, the minimum requirements for FM09 are greater than that of FM08... this has been made clear from the beginning. Just because it ran last year's game fine does not mean it will do so this year... it is a little silly to expect a game with ever improving technologies to be playable on ever ageing machines. Would you expect to be able to run, say for example, a game like Quake 4 with a machine as old as Quake 3? Electronic technology moves forward constantly and to expect the company to design a game that runs on very old, under/poor spec machines would eat significantly more time into the dev cycle.

We understand that it can be frustrating. For those with recommended spec PCs or above you indeed have a right to the best performance possible. For those with under minimum spec PCs you really can't expect that much: after all, technically speaking you are lucky that it even runs! The best thing to do if you have an under spec PC is to upgrade.

People that ran 2D in FM 2008 should have the right to expect 2009 to run because on the surface it's the exact same thing! The fact that it's now rendered differently shouldn't change our expectations, it's the developers job to make it work the way it did before. If they choose not to then all the complaints should be expected and dealt with.

My comp is well above the specs and runs most graphics intensive games just fine (those that don't require ps 3.0 that is). Yet the FM 2009 2D is jerky. Not that much to make it unbearable but jerky nevertheless. You can talk about specs and technology moving forward till you're blue in the face but it won't change the fact that FM09 is just a very poorly optimized game.

Intel Core Duo CPU @ 2.2ghz

2 gb ram

Vista

Pc is only 2 months old and the 3d and 2d engine is really jerky

Do I have to buy a new pc again?:confused:

Intel Core Duo CPU @ 2.2ghz

2 gb ram

Vista

Pc is only 2 months old and the 3d and 2d engine is really jerky

Do I have to buy a new pc again?:confused:

What is your graphic card?

Nvidia Geforce 8400 GS

If you are playing with an under-spec computer, you should not expect any future patches or improvements to make much of a difference. While some PCs may have been good enough to run FM08, the minimum requirements for FM09 are greater than that of FM08... this has been made clear from the beginning. Just because it ran last year's game fine does not mean it will do so this year... it is a little silly to expect a game with ever improving technologies to be playable on ever ageing machines. Would you expect to be able to run, say for example, a game like Quake 4 with a machine as old as Quake 3? Electronic technology moves forward constantly and to expect the company to design a game that runs on very old, under/poor spec machines would eat significantly more time into the dev cycle.

We understand that it can be frustrating. For those with recommended spec PCs or above you indeed have a right to the best performance possible. For those with under minimum spec PCs you really can't expect that much: after all, technically speaking you are lucky that it even runs! The best thing to do if you have an under spec PC is to upgrade.

Not really a good comparison and I can see why it isn't standing up here. An upgrade in Quake would see the levels, guns, monsters - the main core of the game - all change to higher detail and it would be expected that it would run slower on an older computer. The difference between 2D FM08 and 2DFM09 is? I can't see it, apart from the ad-boards. I don't really understand why this should be the case in a slower version, sure if you had 3D running but some people have said they turn it off. So the question is, what does this new game do when setting up a match? I'd imagine it still re-creates it in 3D despite it being turned off because when a pkm of that match is uploaded, the downloader can view it in 3D. Any other ideas?

The match engine on mine is jerky too.

My specs are 3.2Ghz Dual Core CPU, 4GB RAM, 1.5TB Hard Drive, 1GB (2 x 512mb) ATI Radeon HD 3870, Windows Vista.

Your PC is quite significantly under the recommended minimum specifications for the game; this is why your are suffering from a jerky engine.

This are the official system requirements:

PC System Requirements

OS - Windows Vista or XP

Processor Speed - Vista - 2.0GHz, XP - 1.4GHz Memory - Vista - 1GB, XP - 512MB Videocard - 128MB Nvidia FX 5900 Ultra, ATI Radeon 9800, Intel 82915G/82910GL or greater.

How can you say he's PC is "quite significantly" under minimum system requirements? He has better processor, and twice the RAM needed. Also, where's the "technology" in FM09 for people who can play only 2D? Graphics are exactly the same, and I don't think the press conference or the transfers rumors demand a better Video Card... It's extremely irrelevant to compare Quick 3-4 with FM08-09.

I have to agree with Leclercq and Äktsjon Männ here.

I do understand that the requirements of PC specs do keep becoming higher, and that we shouldnt expect to run every game now and in the future on low end machines.

But the 2D in FM09 looks exactly the same as the 2D in FM08, so on the surface it should run the same.

After all, I do remember (I think, happy to be corrected) that we had been told that those with lower-end laptops could still expect to play the 2D game without problems. I do wonder what the reaction would have been if we had been warned that the extra graphics horsepower required to produce the 3D engine would also mean that the 2D view could also only be produced on higher-spec machines.

Oh well, whats done is done. Since my computer is (ever so slightly) below the minimum spec, I guess I'll now have to accept that I am not going to play FM09 for now. Back to FM07 or FM08 for me.

At least I didnt buy it first to find that out.

This is not a pc spec issue on some it may well be but on my pc I know it is not. My 2d view is slow my 3d view is fine also the 2d was fine the first few times playing the game then this problem started. Nothing has changed with my pc no new programs or hardware.

If you are playing with an under-spec computer, you should not expect any future patches or improvements to make much of a difference. While some PCs may have been good enough to run FM08, the minimum requirements for FM09 are greater than that of FM08... this has been made clear from the beginning. Just because it ran last year's game fine does not mean it will do so this year... it is a little silly to expect a game with ever improving technologies to be playable on ever ageing machines. Would you expect to be able to run, say for example, a game like Quake 4 with a machine as old as Quake 3? Electronic technology moves forward constantly and to expect the company to design a game that runs on very old, under/poor spec machines would eat significantly more time into the dev cycle.

What a kneejerk response. It's only fair that customers demand that the 2D runs as smoothly as it did in FM08, because to the user it hasn't changed. Who knows what you're doing differently at the backend, and frankly, it doesn't matter. This would only be an excuse if we'd get some noticeable improvement in return. Remember, we're talking about the 2D mode, and most people accept that they may not be able to run 3D with their less than stellar computers. Comparing FM to a game like Quake is a travesty. If you want to use that line of excuse then you'd better provide us with something of similar quality.

A lot of the machines that are having trouble rendering a pathetic 2D presentation are able to run games with much better graphics, so maybe you should look a little at the quality of your work instead of blaming our hardware.

Does anybody with 2GB RAM have this problem?

Yep i have 2gb of Ram and have laggy 2d...was perfectly fine in FM08

What a kneejerk response. It's only fair that customers demand that the 2D runs as smoothly as it did in FM08, because to the user it hasn't changed. Who knows what you're doing differently at the backend, and frankly, it doesn't matter. This would only be an excuse if we'd get some noticeable improvement in return. Remember, we're talking about the 2D mode, and most people accept that they may not be able to run 3D with their less than stellar computers. Comparing FM to a game like Quake is a travesty. If you want to use that line of excuse then you'd better provide us with something of similar quality.

A lot of the machines that are having trouble rendering a pathetic 2D presentation are able to run games with much better graphics, so maybe you should look a little at the quality of your work instead of blaming our hardware.

Totally agree with this, we were told that if our computers couldnt handle 3d (which is fair enough) we could always go back to 2d because its no different from the previous version. Well visually it isnt, i can see no difference but it runs ALOT slower. Somethings not right somewhere because lots of people are having the same issue

Yust one question....like everybody else I am having same old jerky while playing 2d in the tv view but then when you watch highlights of other matches in 2d tv view it just runs superbly well no jerky at all , I yust can't believe it. So I was wondering if it's all related to graphic cards - minimum specs and so on why is it running so well in the highlights?

Anyone got an answer to this thank's

I have 512 mb RAM and a 32 mb video card and a 2.24 GHz processor.

Now i can not play 3d(for obvious reasons) but my game is still very slow and the 2d horrid. So will upgrading to 1gb ram be enough to play the game smoothly enough? Or will i need to get a decent video card as well? Please help! I want to play this game badly

;2115595']This are the official system requirements:

PC System Requirements

OS - Windows Vista or XP

Processor Speed - Vista - 2.0GHz' date=' XP - 1.4GHz Memory - Vista - 1GB, XP - 512MB Videocard - 128MB Nvidia FX 5900 Ultra, ATI Radeon 9800, Intel 82915G/82910GL or greater.

How can you say he's PC is "quite significantly" under minimum system requirements? He has better processor, and twice the RAM needed. Also, where's the "technology" in FM09 for people who can play only 2D? Graphics are exactly the same, and I don't think the press conference or the transfers rumors demand a better Video Card... It's extremely irrelevant to compare Quick 3-4 with FM08-09.[/quote']

I agree with this, you said his specs where far below what is needed, but yet his specs are a lot greater than what is needed.

:|

Same here. And my mouse still flickers. Pretty much everything else is fine though.

likewise, pain in the arse!!! i don't want 3D, i just want to play normal 2D, FM08 Ran like a dream, THIS ONE runs great until i try and play a game and then -

1/. takes ages while "setting up game" or something like that

dunno what spec my laptop is, its a sony vaio let me know how i can check spec and ill pop in on here, i think my spec is quite goodish though, played quite a lot of plays with it and other stuff - i cleaned my laptop up just for champs

my note above - other games i meant to say not plays