Managers getting jobs they don't deserve

I have noticed this heavily in my current save. Managers in the Premier League are being sacked left, right and center due to ridiculous performances and poor league performances. One stand out manager was Tony Pulis, Stoke are lying bottom of the Premier League in February with 2 wins all season and rightly so, he gets the sack. Chelsea who are 8th in the League sack AVB. Redknapp leaves Tottenham (11th) in the league for Chelsea and then Pulis gets the Spurs Job???

Another e.g is Mick McCarthy who gets sacked by Wolves and then gets Hired by Everton who are 9th???

Has this happened to anyone else or is it just a bug?

It happens regularly to me too, in my game, Nigel Pearson was managing Leicester, got them promoted and then promptly got the Arsenal job when Wenger retired?! Then Paul Jewell got his job back at Wigan and then after finishing 14th in the Prem, took over at Chelsea, after AVB got sacked and ended up at Villa?!

Happens regular.

Alex McLeish got the Villa job in my game after getting Birmingham relegated.

Reputation has too much say and results are ignored when it comes to the A.I. appointing new managers.

Alex McLeish got the Villa job in my game after getting Birmingham relegated.

Nice

But this happens way too much in the game. Managers constantly just rotate jobs in the Premiership. Mourinho went to Man City, then banck to Chelsea. AVB left Chelsea for Man Utd. Martin Jol is back at Spurs!

Just another thing which shows SI system is flawed in regards to clubs buying players and appointing managers, you would think they would sort it out by now, but no, each season they churn out the same old system with transfer update and some minor features.

Im not complaining so much since i still buy it, but ffs we cant find a better system for AI to work than reputation? this has been moaned about on here for at least the last 3 versions of the game

In my save AVB after the first season and a 5th place got sacked and went to Twente (i think not so realistic) and Mourinho was sacked from RM after finishing 3rd and went to Sporting Lisbon (even more less realistic since there were a lot of higher reputation clubs without manager the time he was free agent). At least now he left Sporting and now he is in Manchester City.

Most of the teams in Premiership by the end of the third season have changed their manager due to poor performance

Steve Bruce has already done his killer act on 4 teams on my save and just got the Chelsea job. At least I know they will be ruined by the time he leaves.

Yes, this is annoying. Getting sacked should cause a major drop in reputation and the big clubs should be attracting better managerial talent from overseas.

Clubs are also supposed to be hiring managers based largely on the club's tactical attributes, but I've found this typically gets ignored. A big English club that favors an attacking 4231 is still more likely to appoint a recently sacked Tony Pulis than, for example, Rudi Garcia or Jurgen Klopp.

Papa Bouba Diop got the Man U job on my long-term save in 2016, needless to say he didn't even last a season.

I find this is a more common occurrence when using a small database. It still happens when using a large one, but less frequently for me at least.

I find this is a more common occurrence when using a small database. It still happens when using a large one, but less frequently for me at least.

I use a large database,and personalize it adding a few famous players from other continents.

And this problem ALWAYS occurs anyway. It better be fixed,because after a couple of saves it really spoils your experience. Completely unrealistic.

"Oh,great,I just won the EPL ... with unknown managers in every other team!"

I use a large database,and personalize it adding a few famous players from other continents.

And this problem ALWAYS occurs anyway. It better be fixed,because after a couple of saves it really spoils your experience. Completely unrealistic.

"Oh,great,I just won the EPL ... with unknown managers in every other team!"

Yeah, I usually play with about 90,000 players loaded and use a database to increase the pool of managerial talent available for hire, and while it helps a bit, it's almost like the Rise of Mick McCarthy is preprogrammed.

Yeah, I usually play with about 90,000 players loaded and use a database to increase the pool of managerial talent available for hire, and while it helps a bit, it's almost like the Rise of Mick McCarthy is preprogrammed.

It's not how many players that matters - it's how many leagues. You don't get a decent flow of managers if there aren't feeder leagues creating new high-rep European managers to import. Transfers to and from inactive leagues never work as well as between active leagues, for managers or players.

Just another thing which shows SI system is flawed in regards to clubs buying players and appointing managers, you would think they would sort it out by now, but no, each season they churn out the same old system with transfer update and some minor features.

Im not complaining so much since i still buy it, but ffs we cant find a better system for AI to work than reputation? this has been moaned about on here for at least the last 3 versions of the game

They try.

You moan, but it's not like you proposed a solution that they ignored. Moaning doesn't fix things: suggestions fix things (sometimes).

Liverpool hired Neil McDonald after Van Gaal got sacked and Chris Casper was well on his way to getting QPR relegated with like 3 wins in 30 but that was good enough for Wolves to hire him after Zvanomir Soldo left them.

It's not how many players that matters - it's how many leagues. You don't get a decent flow of managers if there aren't feeder leagues creating new high-rep European managers to import. Transfers to and from inactive leagues never work as well as between active leagues, for managers or players.

Assumptions, assumptions... I play with nearly all European nations' top divisions playable, multiple lower leagues for the big nations down to Holland, I also have Brazil, Argentina, Korea, South Africa, Mexico and the United States active. As I mentioned, I even use a custom database which improves reputation/CA/PA for future foreign managerial talents (Bergkamp, Solskjaer, etc.) and have tested various adjustments with multiple twenty-year test saves. None of that really addresses the problem. Winning lower foreign leagues doesn't adequately increase the managers' reputation and managers in the other "big" leagues don't appear to apply for jobs outside their home nations. Outside of Mourinho and van Gaal, you still end up with a decade-long Pulis/McCarthy/Coyle/McLeish/Shearer merry-go-round among the top 6 EPL clubs.

You moan, but it's not like you proposed a solution that they ignored. Moaning doesn't fix things: suggestions fix things (sometimes).

Well, I suggested a solution: bigger reputation drop for getting sacked, bigger world reputation increase for winning smaller league titles, more emphasis on "world reputation" for big club hiring decisions, greater willingness of English/Italian/Spanish/French/German managers to apply for work in a foreign nation, more emphasis on club formation and tactical preferences when hiring...

What about a temporary 6 month reputation drop meaning they won't immediately get re-hired. Then also factor in the managers ambition to stop him being immediately hired by a crap team... So they may get offered a relegation job after being sacked by a big team - if their wages aren't too high. But then because of their ambition the manager will think no... I will wait 6 months till my rep has recovered a bit and then see if better jobs become available that I may be able to do instead of just immediately accepting a lower job. But hey i'm no programmer.

also hardly ever when a managers doing a good job at a championship club no premier league teams approach him its always someone from the same league or a foreinger which usually isnt even well known or a manager. Be nice to see some shocks in the game to. Why cant someone come out of retirement to rescue a club. Why not have a club legend have his opnion on the job your doing and a chance to repond to him. Then if things dont improve perhaps he takes your job, like what happened at Liverpool with dalglish.

tony pulis at at a spurs on mine.

and mcarthey is managing a villa side i beat 5-0

and steve mclaren is managing in the premier league.... at liverpool

On a network game me and my brother play we were in the premier league, i was Swansea and he was Norwich. We left with our clubs established champions league teams (infact i had just won the quadruple the previous season) in order to go newly promoted clubs in a new league.

So who gets to inherit our amazing squads filled with more high PA players than you can shake a stick at?

Oh yeah, Martin Stranzl got his first ever managers job replacing me at Swansea and Norwich were taken over by Steve Bruce who had gotten sacked at Sunderland, Wolves and West Ham.

Stranzl is doing ok halfway through the season but he did sell a couple of players who were key to my plans when i was there. Bruce however totally destroyed Norwich, only a few months in he had sent 4 of my brothers young team on loan to other clubs like Porto, AC Milan and FC Bayern, top international players who were key to him winning cups and finishing 2nd in the league.

He then signed a few rubbish players and put a few more established stars in the reserve squad as well as getting rid of a few high PA future stars for no reason at all. They are sitting 9th currently, totally ruined.

It's just such a poor system at the moment, really needs a total overhaul if you ask me.

More than anything, it is the AI managers that deserve attention for FM13 and beyond. After all, most of us play only against the computer, so then the computer needs to be able to do what we do. In FM there's usually a 20-point gap between the bottom of the top 6 and the 7th place of the Premier League, and the teams with negative goal difference starts there. No AI manager will ever be able to bridge that gap unless obscene amount of money is thrown at him by some rich dude. The best an AI manager can hope for is status quo compared to the original database. Why?

There's no long-term planning regarding any aspect of the game:

No team will rotate in youngsters in order to give them badly needed experience at a higher level than reserves. They rotate them in because they are programmed to rotate in squad and backup players in lower-reputation cups, so there is no coding to determine whether or not it is necessary to field a full-strength XI in order to win a home game vs the weakest teams in the league - aka team quality not reputation. If there is, it is so rare that I haven't noticed it playing thousands of hours of this game.

No team will get rid of weaker players in order to fund the signing of stronger players. Rather, they autorenew contracts and so it is up to the players whether or not the team improves. If they want to stay (they want to stay!) then there will be no space or money for a new signing except for the top 10 richest clubs in the world which can afford having players on astronomical wages rotting in the reserves.

No team will sign players that would improve the current tactical system, meaning the AI does not have tools with which to depth-analyze problems with the current squad's ability to carry out the instructions which they are set to do by their boss. For example, a low ability to win back possession in the midfield because of a poor tackling % there won't lead to a strategic or tactical decision by the manager. The strategic decision would be to make sure there are player types in the squad which could contribute in that way for the team, and the tactical one would be to remedy the problem on the pitch by changing the tactic to help out those midfielders. Looking at AI squads, especially the first XI, it is clear that it never dawns on the AI managers that fielding four lazy and weak playmakers in the midfield of a 442 could lead to problems.

... There are more problems with the AI managers as well, but my point is that it is pointless complaining about poor managers getting jobs in big clubs when the good managers aren't good! The difference between Mourinho and Teddy Twotoes is too small in all three aspects of this game: squad building, tactics and morale/motivation.

i have seen the premier league bottom club get hardly any points and concede a rediculous number of goals. happens every season, as it is on my blackpool save birmingham are at the bottom in mid december with 4 points

this one sticks out in my mind

that is far to many goals conceded

this is what would be next season, reading could make the premier league next season easily, will they only have 17 points and consede so many goals? i would say no

More than anything, it is the AI managers that deserve attention for FM13 and beyond. After all, most of us play only against the computer, so then the computer needs to be able to do what we do. In FM there's usually a 20-point gap between the bottom of the top 6 and the 7th place of the Premier League, and the teams with negative goal difference starts there. No AI manager will ever be able to bridge that gap unless obscene amount of money is thrown at him by some rich dude. The best an AI manager can hope for is status quo compared to the original database. Why?

There's no long-term planning regarding any aspect of the game:

No team will rotate in youngsters in order to give them badly needed experience at a higher level than reserves. They rotate them in because they are programmed to rotate in squad and backup players in lower-reputation cups, so there is no coding to determine whether or not it is necessary to field a full-strength XI in order to win a home game vs the weakest teams in the league - aka team quality not reputation. If there is, it is so rare that I haven't noticed it playing thousands of hours of this game.

No team will get rid of weaker players in order to fund the signing of stronger players. Rather, they autorenew contracts and so it is up to the players whether or not the team improves. If they want to stay (they want to stay!) then there will be no space or money for a new signing except for the top 10 richest clubs in the world which can afford having players on astronomical wages rotting in the reserves.

No team will sign players that would improve the current tactical system, meaning the AI does not have tools with which to depth-analyze problems with the current squad's ability to carry out the instructions which they are set to do by their boss. For example, a low ability to win back possession in the midfield because of a poor tackling % there won't lead to a strategic or tactical decision by the manager. The strategic decision would be to make sure there are player types in the squad which could contribute in that way for the team, and the tactical one would be to remedy the problem on the pitch by changing the tactic to help out those midfielders. Looking at AI squads, especially the first XI, it is clear that it never dawns on the AI managers that fielding four lazy and weak playmakers in the midfield of a 442 could lead to problems.

... There are more problems with the AI managers as well, but my point is that it is pointless complaining about poor managers getting jobs in big clubs when the good managers aren't good! The difference between Mourinho and Teddy Twotoes is too small in all three aspects of this game: squad building, tactics and morale/motivation.

Good point.

that is far to many goals conceded

this is what would be next season, reading could make the premier league next season easily, will they only have 17 points and consede so many goals? i would say no

This issue might be (partially) related to the overuse of ultra-attacking tactics (namely "4231 Denmark") by researchers. If all the managers using "4231 Denmark" were changed to use the more realistic "451DM" or "4411", I suspect you would see slightly more realistic scores and less ridiculous goalfests.