Projected End of Year Finance and Board Interactions.

Projected End of Year Finances.

I believe a projected/estimated end of financial year page is a vital piece of financial information that is currently missing from the game.

I've been trying to figure out what my finances will be like at the end of the year, an estimated profit or loss and balance. I was trying to do this to help figure out if I wanted to spend all of my available transfer budget, or if I should hold off because I'd end up making a loss and that's not what I want.

But the way the financial pages are set out, it's impossible.

The best you can do is a very vague idea that doesn't take into account any monthly transfer payments in or out, as well as not being accurate on the wages the club is spending now as opposed to last year.

There should be an additional finance page, which will show the player an estimated profit/loss/balance for the rest of the year, that does take this factors into account.

For things like gate receipts, it should work roughly off the expectations you've set at the time, or perhaps give the player a couple of drop-down buttons which they can use to project a better, worse or similar to expectations.

OR during the monthly board update, you could have an additional line in it, for example:

The club made a profit of £325k

...

The board are projecting that on the [insert last day of the 'year' ie the day before regens] that the club will have a balance of £x,xxx,xxx, a profit of £x,xxx,xxx from the start of the season.

Board Infrastructure Upgrades

The second part of this post, is board interactions with regards to the various "infrastructure" upgrades:

Training Facilities.

Youth Academy.

Youth Facilities.

Youth Recruitment Network.

Build New Stadium.

Buy Stadium.

Expand Stadium.

Relay Pitch.

My personal view of the upgrade interaction is that as part of the overall body of the team, the manager goes to the board because he is running the football department and wants an upgrade to the clubs infrastructure, and the manager and the board are working together to improve the club as best they can in partnership.

At the moment, the player has no way of knowing how much it will cost to have these things done, until the board are finished planning it.

The way it flows is:

Player asks board for upgrade.

Board accept or deny. At this point the player loses control of the upgrade.

Board start planning.

Board then start construction or cancel project due to lack of funds.

Project terminated or is built.

At the point where the board agree to the project, the player loses all control.

I've had multiple faculties cancelled by the board due to finances, when I'd prefer to actually build the project anyway, and one instance of wanting to postpone/cancel a project that the board went ahead and built despite our finances being a bit dodgy at the time.

In this case, I believe the Infrastructure part of the board interaction should 'flow' in this way:

Player goes to the board. Clicks on what infrastructure upgrade they wish to look at.

The board then tell the player a basic idea of what it will cost and how long it will take to build, and how much the planning phase of the project will cost. This 'planning phase' should cost a small amount, maybe 0.5% to 1.5% of a projects real cost with.

At that point, the player can decide to ask the board to build the item. The board agree.

If a training facility upgrade will cost £425,000 then the Planning cost would be $2,000 to £5,000. That money would be spent immediately and could not be recovered. The planning phase represents a general project management guide being produced, companies looked at, a timeline produced.

Planning phase finishes.

At this point, a news items pops up for the manager to look at.

or

or

This last one is for longer-term managers, people who have high reputations and have earned the 'trust' of the board. They may not take the money out of the transfer budget, but they will make sure the player understands the board don't feel it is fully financially sound to do. The manager will decide on his own. The reason I include this, is because there are times when I am planning to sell a player, and I would like some of the money invested in the infrastructure. It would be up to the player to decide if the project upgrade is worthy a reduced transfer/wage budget.

At that point, the player accepts or declines or the project is cancelled.

I believe both these ideas will improve the information the player has about the state of their club, without over whelming the player with information. Players should have this information available to them to make good decisions.

I like this a lot. Great post.

The board wouldn't let me edit in a picture for projected profit part:

During the monthly board update, you could have an additional line in it, for example:

The club made a profit of £325k

...

The board are projecting that on the [insert last day of the 'year' ie the day before regens] that the club will have a balance of £x,xxx,xxx, a profit of £x,xxx,xxx from the start of the season.

Great well thought out idea.

Sounds like a very good idea to me!

I think this should be put into FM12 it would be fantastic well done.

Thanks for your support

Funnily enough, I'm actually getting stuffed up by this inability to see what our end of year balance will be.

I generally find it's easier to make the transfer budget stretch if I make most of the payments over 1/2/3 years.

I also get more money from the other teams when I offer people out with money OVER 1/2/3 years.

However, this season, I had a large amount coming in per month, but this ended halfway through the year.

But I still have lots of money outgoing, in a stadium loan and those players I bought.

So I'm losing a lot of money every month now.

I'm near the end of the season, but I'm probably going to end with only a couple million in the bank, and all the upgrades the board have planned will be cancelled.

If I could have seen an end of year projection, I might have spent less, or sold a player when the other teams really wanted them.

Finances are quite basic in FM and always have been, I think it's because they want the manager to concentrate on managing the team and they leave the board to manage the finances. Which is how it should work, but I personally would like to see a lot more detail in Finances.

If you want projections, they are simple enough to do on a spreadsheet. I know it's not ideal, but it's a short-term solution if that is what you really need.

No, it's not simple to make a spreadsheet. I know because I tried building one. There are too many variables the player doesn't know about but the game does.

Also, this season, I'm in the EPL not the Championship.

My board has upgrade our seating by 5,000.

How am I supposed to use a spreadsheet to work with those changes?

Brilliant post and I totally agree. Can I ask why you are managing Nantwich? they are the closest football team to where I live.

Dafuge Challenge

Dafuge Challenge

Thought so.

Great post, I can only agree to this.

I love the facilities upgrade idea and would be a great addition to the game.

Another thing that i would like to be changed is the new season expectations and budget, i always feel you are given the objectives too late it can be annoying specially when you are promoted and the new division games start early on the pre-season.

No, it's not simple to make a spreadsheet. I know because I tried building one. There are too many variables the player doesn't know about but the game does.

Also, this season, I'm in the EPL not the Championship.

My board has upgrade our seating by 5,000.

How am I supposed to use a spreadsheet to work with those changes?

True, there will be the odd thing that happens which you weren't prepared for, but generally you can put something together for everything else and factor in a miscellaneous line just in case the board do something like this.

Your topic is great!! Very thoughtful, in fact one of the best topic I've seem here.

I think that SI should consider this for FM2012 as well as the (*)UEFA Financial Fair Play Regulations wich aims to help european clubs to balance their finances.

(*)http://www.uefa.com/uefa/aboutuefa/organisation/executivecommittee/news/newsid=1493078.html

I would give this idea a thumb up and as for the post right above me about UEFA Financial Fair Play, a hard way to implement but that would add extra challenge to FM which would be great.

I would give this idea a thumb up and as for the post right above me about UEFA Financial Fair Play, a hard way to implement but that would add extra challenge to FM which would be great.

Not so hard as you may think. It's all about programming and the Financial Fair Play system isn' something complex. In fact, is easy to understand and as you said would add extra challeng to FM.

Isnt that going to come into the effect in 2014 by the way? If that's the case then SI might want to wait until FM14?

Excellent ideas and a very well presented post.

Also, as someone mentioned; although it is not necessarily the job of the manager to deal with either of these things in real life it would really make a big difference in game, particularly if you're the type of manager who likes to plan ahead.

Isnt that going to come into the effect in 2014 by the way? If that's the case then SI might want to wait until FM14?

The Financial Fair Play starts in 2013/14 season, but will take in count exercises corresponding to 2011/12 and 2012/13 seasons, so europeans clubs are already in this regulations (aiming the next season 2011/2012 of course, since currently one is almost in the end)

At the beginning of the evaluation (in 2013/14), the clubs can not record losses in excess of 45 million euros in all the previous two seasons (2011/12 and 2012/13). In 2014/15 the club can not suffer losses in excess of 45 million euros in the previous three seasons (2011/12, 2012/13 and 2013/14). From 2015/16 to 2017/18 losses can not exceed 30 million.

Whenever a club make losses of more than 5 million, it will be under evaluation by the UEFA Club Financial Control Panel. It is then required to submit quarterly reports and plans to solve the problem. If the club beyond the limits prescribed in the preceding paragraphs a disciplinary procedure is open by UEFA.

Disciplinary measures are evaluated individually taking into account the situation of the club and can pass through (a) suspension of sporting activity, (b) exclusion from the competition, © removing points in European competition, (d) prohibiting registration of players.

More than 400 views and just 20 replies?

Would be nicer if more person could participate and let us know what do they think about this

Great stuff, really really good ideas. I hope SI take notice of this

Great idea, I hate it when I ask something to be planned, it gets accepted, then at the end of the year I find out that I can't afford it and have to wait another year to get something upgraded.

Isnt that going to come into the effect in 2014 by the way? If that's the case then SI might want to wait until FM14?

Many of us play many seasons on a save. So it males sense to put it in the game as soon as practicable.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not bought into the game itself. It's complex and very subjective.

We've already got these suggestions noted down, but thanks for the detailed post davidbowie.

I like this suggestion, as I agree when you get the boardroom involved the user can feel some situations have been taken out of their hands. Good job!

Great idea. If you're going to be rated on 'financial control' as a manager, it makes sense to have the variables, or some semblance of them, presented to you to help.

We've already got these suggestions noted down, but thanks for the detailed post davidbowie.

Cheers

Brilliant.

I just hate it when managing a small team in a low division... I go up a couple of divs and have some cash to spare.

First, the board never tells me how much an upgrade would cost, How it would compare with what we have.

Second, it was a huge turn off when I realized that when ( I'm kinda new, meh ) the building that was being planned just got turned down because of funding.

I resigned

Niker

Yeah, I know you couldn't exactly do anything about it so soon, but I'd just like to point out that there's been absolutely no changes to the finance or boardroom interaction in FM 12. Asked the board for a youth network upgrade, they say yes, next news item is saying it cost me £4.8 million pounds. That's something the player needs more of a say in that just "I would like this".

I hope that by "noted these suggestions" you mean "working on them for FM13".

I'm waiting for the "It's called Football Manager and managers don't do that!" complaints. Where are they?

I think this is a good idea and simply highlights that users like playing this game not because they are football managers, but because they are in control of a club's destiny, including its investments.

I'm waiting for the "It's called Football Manager and managers don't do that!" complaints. Where are they?

I think this is a good idea and simply highlights that users like playing this game not because they are football managers, but because they are in control of a club's destiny, including its investments.

The thing is that it's not even that much like a "manager's don't do that" suggestion.

My 'dream' is a 'total club control' mode where you literally have no board and you make all the decisions from top to bottom.

This is a good way to build a platform for that, by introducing more control without making it too much control.

It also gives information more than just control.

Right now I don't have any information about how much a new upgrade will cost. I don't know how long it will take. I don't know how much of an improvement it will be. I don't have any information about how much my club expects to make over an entire year. Sure, the club give me a transfer budget, but not everything the player deals with in finance is only the budget. I have to deal with staff. I have to deal with scouts. Upgrades. Networks. Facilities. Future fees that aren't included in the transfer budget.

This is a fantastic idea!

I'm just like you and I like to try to always get a little profit each year, even if it costs my a little on the results side.

This would be a great idea to put into the game!!! Great post!

I'm waiting for the "It's called Football Manager and managers don't do that!" complaints. Where are they?

I think this is a good idea and simply highlights that users like playing this game not because they are football managers, but because they are in control of a club's destiny, including its investments.

Completely agree on this one. Personally I play FM more the "Sports Director"-way, more focused on the overall strategy of the club such as scouting, recruitment and finances. Tactics is useful and an integral part, but I feel I can play the game easily without putting to much emphasis on tactics and such issues.

Regarding the finances I keep getting frustrated. Dividend payments, "non-football costs" etc are badly explained and as a business student I would like to know more about it, but seems SI don't focus much on this which is fair enough.

Knowing how much upgrades will cost really needs to happen. I'm playing an A-League save with Melbourne Victory.

We have 8 million in the bank.

I figured we'd upgrade our training facilities. Board say yes. A week later they come back with a news item saying it'll cost 5 million.

I'd also suggest that there be an option to use the loan feature for these facilities, so they can be spread out over 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years and not just one huge hit up front.

Something I found funny today, I just realised that we get told how much a series of injections will cost, but not how much a multi-million facility upgrade will.

I haven't played this years version yet but I'll probably buy the game at some point next week so I can't comment on the financials from the new version,however on FM 2011 I can state this held me back for around 5 seasons not having an in depth financial report,I was doing my save with Solihull Moors and after getting into League One at around 2020 I knew my 3000 Damson Park capacity wasn't enough,I'd constantly sell players on for around £500k every season and built up a balance of around £5 Million by the time we get promoted into League One,however my request for a new stadium was constantly rejected up until we had around £10 Million in the bank balance,but I had no idea how much the new stadium would cost,what extra revenue it would bring in and what the projected attendances would be.

Now I do appreciate for some people that finances isn't the issue,they run into the red with regards to bank balance constantly and spend all the money they are given in the transfer budget and just want to play the game,however for myself when I do these challenges I find it vital to keep my books in order and my balance in the black,however due to so many hidden costs in the game that aren't factored in it's hard to do this,on my Solihull Moors save I must have spent nothing for the first 15 seasons due to the fact my stadium was poor and therefore running at profit was impossible to do unless players were constantly sold on.

Another thing I'd like to see is the ability to take on a loan or debt to build a new stadium through the board interaction options,at Solihull Moors I'd have happily done this as it would have got my stadium quicker and meant I would be able to compete far more quickly,I was making a profit on players season after season so I think I'd have hit my loan repayments quite easily.

If information like this was just in the financial section it'd make the game far easier and clearer tbh.

I'd also like the ability, in board interaction, to pay off loans or part of loans earlier. Would be nice. Thanks for the ideas.

I love all these ideas mainly because I'm in accounting/tax and enjoy analyzing figures.

The more SI add to Finances the better to be honest. It will allow the serious managers to make better decisions about whether they should really sign that next player.

Your ideas about the facilities are great as people are always asking "How much do I need for a new stadium?". Also, having the board stating the cost of something and saying they can't afford it is so much better than them just saying No.

I would like even more depth to the finances over time aswell so we can see how much we have improved or declined.

great idea. I would love the inclusion of this in the game.