This game is ...........................

Firstly, I am not complaining. These are the facts.

Fact one, FA Cup Final v Aston Villa

The score after extra time is 1-1, so its down to penalties.

Step up Dezko, he scores Aston Villa MISS

We MISS Aston Villa MISS

We MISS Aston Villa MISS

We score Aston Villa MISS

I win the Cup, but it feels .................................. yes blank

Fact two, I am suppose to play Arsenal in the UEFA Champions League Final

The EPL games have just ended and guess what?

Arsenal's manager Martin O'Neil (thats realistic), goes coookooooo and he RETIRES, yes RETIRES, I mean what the hell, how can that happen?

Thats all

Yeh I had a game with Palermo where I was managing them for 5 seasons.

Mid way through season 5 I was offered the Man United job and accepted but only at the end of the season.

It came up that I was due to join United on 28 May

Guess when the champs league final was?

So I join United on the day of the Champs League final and miss the Palermo match!!!

And Martin O'Neill has a rep for running when things get too hard

this game is.... fantastic

look at this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12123159

I live in Dordrecht, keep the windows closed...... enough time to play this wonderfull game!!

point:

Sometimes when you at the 80th minute and you leading with 3-0, I think it is unrealistic when at the end of the game the opponent came back to 3-3.....

The nuts, yes I know.

Teams do come back in the last ten minutes when complacency sets in. Not at all unrealistic, Norwich came back from 4-1 down to draw 4-4 inside the last ten minutes.

This factoid is coming in handy the last view days

Charlton Athletic F.C. 7–6 Huddersfield Town F.C. was an association football match between Football League Second Division teams Charlton Athletic F.C. and Huddersfield Town F.C. that took place on 21 December 1957 at Charlton Athletic's home ground, The Valley. Charlton played most of the match with 10 men after their captain Derek Ufton was injured, and Huddersfield were leading 5–1 with just 27 minutes remaining. At that point, Johnny Summers began an extraordinary passage of play in which he scored five goals and assisted with two others to allow Charlton to win 7–6. Huddersfield become the first, and still the only, team to score six goals in an English Football League match - or indeed any other professional football match - and still be on the losing side. A reporter at the time described the match as "amazing, incredible, fantastic".

Arsenal's manager Martin O'Neil (thats realistic), goes coookooooo and he RETIRES, yes RETIRES, I mean what the hell, how can that happen?

In my savegame I was FC Bayern. I reached the Champions League final for the second year in a row. Arsenal, my opponent fired their manager a day before the final. I applied for the job and they offered it to me! So I played the final with Arsenal instead. Unfortunately I lost on penalties

This factoid is coming in handy the last view days

Except the whole point of that factoid is that such things happen maybe once a decade. They're not a regular occurrence.

Firstly, I am not complaining. These are the facts.

Fact one, FA Cup Final v Aston Villa

The score after extra time is 1-1, so its down to penalties.

Step up Dezko, he scores Aston Villa MISS

We MISS Aston Villa MISS

We MISS Aston Villa MISS

We score Aston Villa MISS

I win the Cup, but it feels .................................. yes blank

Fact two, I am suppose to play Arsenal in the UEFA Champions League Final

The EPL games have just ended and guess what?

Arsenal's manager Martin O'Neil (thats realistic), goes coookooooo and he RETIRES, yes RETIRES, I mean what the hell, how can that happen?

Thats all

Its not the games fault you feel nothing.

and very realistic, look what o'neil did to villa

Except the whole point of that factoid is that such things happen maybe once a decade. They're not a regular occurrence.

And a once in a decade happenstance is going to be a lot more common with FM. There's what about a million copies, games are a lot quicker than real life thus giving us a far greater phase space in which to see these things.

ZOMGZ I HATE THIS GAME SO MUCH WOW WTF OMG

[/sarcasm]

This game is.....the definition of ****...look **** up in the dictionary and it will say FM11. I am baffled how the developers could release something that is so obviously ****. They must be blind, and program the game with brail keyboards, so they have no idea how terrible 3D game/tactics and overall game really is

And a once in a decade happenstance is going to be a lot more common with FM. There's what about a million copies, games are a lot quicker than real life thus giving us a far greater phase space in which to see these things.

Except, of course, individuals are experiencing uncommon results with a great deal of frequency (i.e., once every three or four games for a single team, not once a decade for a whole league). A user on another forum did some interesting statistical analysis of player team results vs. AI-controlled team results. The fact is that results for player-controlled teams are very wonky including, among other things, a very high relative standard deviation for CCC-to-goal conversion rates. This suggests that things have been nerfed to maintain "realistic" table standings. Of course, you can argue otherwise, but I'll take actual numbers over a single anecdote from 1956. I just wonder why it's so hard to believe that the developers who brought us FM11's metric ton of bugs maybe, just maybe, have yet to perfect their match engine.

Arsenal's manager Martin O'Neil (thats realistic), goes coookooooo and he RETIRES, yes RETIRES, I mean what the hell, how can that happen?

In my savegame I was FC Bayern. I reached the Champions League final for the second year in a row. Arsenal, my opponent fired their manager a day before the final. I applied for the job and they offered it to me! So I played the final with Arsenal instead. Unfortunately I lost on penalties

Haha, that's harsh

This game is.....the definition of ****...look **** up in the dictionary and it will say FM11. I am baffled how the developers could release something that is so obviously ****. They must be blind, and program the game with brail keyboards, so they have no idea how terrible 3D game/tactics and overall game really is

so you dont like it, im guessing youre not playing it then, so the question begs why would you be on a general discussion forum spurting rubbish with no aim or objective?

on topic i dont see the prob with the penalty shoot out, everyone bottled it, big deal, theres games when people miss a lot of penalties and theres games where they score everyone no biggy

that retirement* before the cl final thing i would think may be a bug where the game thinks the season is over or something, since other people have experienced it too(i guess?)

Did this instance regularly occur?

A user on another forum did some interesting statistical analysis of player team results vs. AI-controlled team results. The fact is that results for player-controlled teams are very wonky including, among other things, a very high relative standard deviation for CCC-to-goal conversion rates. This suggests that things have been nerfed to maintain "realistic" table standings. Of course, you can argue otherwise,

The only thing that that analysis proves is that the AI build and use more effective tactics than the user concerned.

EDIT

In fact given the amount of variables within FM I suspect the analysis was flawed from the start and therefore any results obtained are worthless.

Except the whole point of that factoid is that such things happen maybe once a decade. They're not a regular occurrence.

I can honestly say that having done 13 seasons on FM11, I have never lost a 3-0 lead in the last 10 minutes of a game (or maybe ever, nt 100% sure on that one though). Obviously something is going badly wrong if your team can't see out the end of games.

i dont think i have ever lost a 3 goal lead, if you have you have messed your tactics up big time.

Is that you Rafa?

The only thing that that analysis proves is that the AI build and use more effective tactics than the user concerned.

Not at all. As others have pointed out, tactics are about creating CCCs. Finishing them is simply a question of player ability and psychology, so this forum's rote "it's yo' tactikz mate" excuse doesn't really apply here. More pertinently, of course, the developers themselves admit that they employ a mechanism to nerf CCCs by teams whose tactics have been too successful. They call it "complacency," but it is, for all intents and purposes, just rubberband AI.

Now, it doesn't ruin the game and, without it, I'm sure people would be kvetching about how easy the game is, but the fact remains that the match engine needs a lot of work and the AI needs a tactical overhaul if FM is going to continue aspiring to be a tactical simulation instead of a dubious attempt at modeling sports team psychology. These are things fans should be asking for instead of encouraging complacency (the real kind) by attacking people who point out where there's room for improvement.

And again, given that SI has already needed two patches to address glaring flaws in its simulation, I don't know why some persist with the belief that the game is a perfect model of the real world and that any fault could only be attributable to the players. I have a "Current Tactics" bug right in front of me that says otherwise.

In fact given the amount of variables within FM I suspect the analysis was flawed from the start and therefore any results obtained are worthless.

Is that why or do you make that assumption because you take the presumed perfection of FM11 as an article of faith?

Except, of course, individuals are experiencing uncommon results with a great deal of frequency (i.e., once every three or four games for a single team, not once a decade for a whole league). A user on another forum did some interesting statistical analysis of player team results vs. AI-controlled team results. The fact is that results for player-controlled teams are very wonky including, among other things, a very high relative standard deviation for CCC-to-goal conversion rates. This suggests that things have been nerfed to maintain "realistic" table standings. Of course, you can argue otherwise, but I'll take actual numbers over a single anecdote from 1956. I just wonder why it's so hard to believe that the developers who brought us FM11's metric ton of bugs maybe, just maybe, have yet to perfect their match engine.

Not seen one single wonky result from any of my games, and I have 5 1/2 seasons up between 3 games at the moment. Could I see where you got the analysis you're quoting from?

This factoid is coming in handy the last view days

I'm sorry, as much as I maybe in the "**** can happen" camp, using evidence from over 50 years ago will prove nothing in the modern game

Both the game and the type of players have changed very drastically in such a huge amount of time, hell even a decade is a huge amount of time in football these days

However, wasn't there a similar occurrence only a couple of months ago in the football league?

Of course games will be not be realistic, gameplay aspects have to come in somewhere (and corners cut since even super computers can't fully simulate reality)

Not at all. As others have pointed out, tactics are about creating CCCs. Finishing them is simply a question of player ability and psychology, so this forum's rote "it's yo' tactikz mate" excuse doesn't really apply here. More pertinently, of course, the developers themselves admit that they employ a mechanism to nerf CCCs by teams whose tactics have been too successful. They call it "complacency," but it is, for all intents and purposes, just rubberband AI.

Now, it doesn't ruin the game and, without it, I'm sure people would be kvetching about how easy the game is, but the fact remains that the match engine needs a lot of work and the AI needs a tactical overhaul if FM is going to continue aspiring to be a tactical simulation instead of a dubious attempt at modeling sports team psychology. These are things fans should be asking for instead of encouraging complacency (the real kind) by attacking people who point out where there's room for improvement.

And again, given that SI has already needed two patches to address glaring flaws in its simulation, I don't know why some persist with the belief that the game is a perfect model of the real world and that any fault could only be attributable to the players. I have a "Current Tactics" bug right in front of me that says otherwise.

Tactics are about creating CCC's????

Personally I prefer to concentrate on scoring goals! Aside from that CCCs are a stat that isn't available in RL and their use within FM is lacking at times as has been shown in other threads. I've seen chances and goals that I would class as a CCC that FM didn't and I've seen FM show a CCC that I wouldn't class as one in a million years. Also peoples opinions vary significantly on what they personally would deem to be a CCC.

SI have admitted employing a mechanism that nerfs CCCs?

Where? I haven't seen them do that but if you have a link I would be interested in reading it.

Patches?

I really don't know what your point is here. FM's patch plan has been three at the same times for the last 6? 7? 8? years and we all know that no software is perfect and never will be (especially one as complicated as FM).

Is that why or do you make that assumption because you take the presumed perfection of FM11 as an article of faith?

I don't do that at all.

You haven't linked the analysis but did the user in question take into account the following when attempting to formulate an unbiased conclusion:

A) The attributes of the player who had the CCC (Both visual & hidden)

B) The attributes of the relevant opposition players (Both visual & hidden)

C) The condition of all relevant players (CCC taker & opposition defenders/GK)

D) The morale of all relevant players (CCC taker & opposition defenders/GK)

E) Any relevant information in the widgets at the moment the CCC happened (Complacency?, wound up? etc)

F) How well all relevant players were playing within the match

G) The league positions of both teams

H) The stage of the season the match was at

I) The current scoreline when the CCC occurred

J) The style of play of both teams

K) The formation of both teams

L) The weather during the match

M) The condition of the pitch

N) Which CCCs were converted

O) Which goals were not the result of a CCC (Did he watch every game live?)

and thats just off the top of my head, I can probably find more if I thought about it.

With all those to consider I don't see how anyone could produce an analysis that is conclusive either way.

In more general terms though I don't have any problems scoring CCCs and I'm confident my conversion rate is very similar to the AIs.