Regen Defender - will he improve?

Will this guy ever get better?

I couldn't figure out what was wrong with him. Looks good, but kept getting poor ratings last season. Then I figured out why. Check out the jumping attribute.

Does jumping ever improve?

Train him to be a full back instead, would be better there tbh

Hmm. I always thought that jumping was more to do with height and a way of replicating the results through the ME. Like a tall player will have high jumping. Maybe because he is only 5ft 9inces this is why his jumping is rated so low? After all, at that height he is hardly going to out-jump many tall defenders.

Im sure i read that somewhere.

EDIT - Just looked and Peter Crouch's jumping is 18 so my theory is starting to add up.

I have to agree with Campbells; retrain him into a fullback.

Yes the jumping is associated with height, so the taller the player the better they would be at jumping. But one of the problems with the regens on 10.2 has been poor jumping for the central defenders, or the poor height of central defenders. I don't think his jumping stat will improve too much either, because his stats are very good already and he must be near his full potential. Probably retraining him to a different position would be the best idea.

Height and jumping are not directly linked, I think.

Height and jumping are not directly linked, I think.

Yes they are. Have a look in your game. The taller the player, the better the jumping.

Thanks, I hadn't thought of retraining him, probably because I've got two world class FBs in both positions. Maybe I'll try him as a DMC?

Thanks, I hadn't thought of retraining him, probably because I've got two world class FBs in both positions. Maybe I'll try him as a DMC?

A DMC would be a good choice for him. That is certainly a player worth sticking in the middle of the park if you can.

Sure, with those attributes that should work.

Height and jumping are not directly linked, I think.

Yes they are. Have a look in your game. The taller the player, the better the jumping.

Indirectly is perhaps a better description.

Jumping is how high a player can get his head - this includes his height + the extra distance he can get it off the ground.

Do young players ever grow taller? I usually get rid of defenders under 6ft or retrain them for a different position.

Do young players ever grow taller? I usually get rid of defenders under 6ft or retrain them for a different position.

I would assume that SI try and reflect real life and once a person hits 18 then he is unlikely to grow much more but there are exceptions I guess.

Do young players ever grow taller? I usually get rid of defenders under 6ft or retrain them for a different position.

Never look at the height of a player, it is completely useless. Look at jumping instead.

That guy would be a good MCd or DM, yeah.

Do young players ever grow taller? I usually get rid of defenders under 6ft or retrain them for a different position.

Yes they do, and as a result their jumping attribute often increases a few points.

I would assume that SI try and reflect real life and once a person hits 18 then he is unlikely to grow much more but there are exceptions I guess.

15 and 16 year olds could grow realisticly.

SCIAG I would think height is very important unless you know for definate it isn't.

15 and 16 year olds could grow realisticly.

SCIAG I would think height is very important unless you know for definate it isn't.

I know for definite it isn't. It means nothing. "Jumping" means height+jumping.

15 and 16 year olds could grow realisticly.

SCIAG I would think height is very important unless you know for definate it isn't.

I'm pretty sure the ME does not take into consideration height and instead takes into account jumping. Thefore it is better do have a CB with height- 5ft 8'' and jumping- 15 than a CB with height- 6ft and jumping 12.

My experience with this player is a good one, anywhere i seem to play him, he plays well, he is very versile and can play in many positions in my team including dm for a whole season.

I always thought it was a combination. So a 6ft6'er with 1 jump would beat a 5ft2er with 20 jump.

If not height would be a completly useless stat.

I always thought it was a combination. So a 6ft6'er with 1 jump would beat a 5ft2er with 20 jump.

If not height would be a completly useless stat.

Height IS a completely useless attribute. It in no way affects the ME. Fact, confirmed by SI more times than Wikipedia has been vandalised.

I always thought it was a combination. So a 6ft6'er with 1 jump would beat a 5ft2er with 20 jump.

If not height would be a completly useless stat.

No, the player with the higher jumping stat would win. The thing is, you can't really have someone 6'6 with a jumping of 1 unless he ducked every time he went to head the ball! Height is incorporated into the jumping stat, but it's useless by itself.

Hmm. I always thought that jumping was more to do with height and a way of replicating the results through the ME. Like a tall player will have high jumping. Maybe because he is only 5ft 9inces this is why his jumping is rated so low? After all, at that height he is hardly going to out-jump many tall defenders.

Im sure i read that somewhere.

EDIT - Just looked and Peter Crouch's jumping is 18 so my theory is starting to add up.

Anthony Annan. Theory is crumbling

is he actually regen or you not using regen photos , in any case hes 10.1 regen .. not 10.2 and he got broken jumping.. he will never increase in jumping to margin you want

and even for any improvement you need to know his ca and pa.. what i recommend is editing his jumping with frmte.. cuz its old regen bug that was fixed in 10.2 ( fixed partially atleast ) .. make him with 15~jumping.. or whatnot.. take -1/2 of some skills if you feel like cheating or something

otherwise he wont be good for anything.. he wont be good fullback with that jumping either.. as there is plenty of jumping defending for fullbacks too..

We had this a few weeks back. Prior to FM09, height did nothing. From 09 onwards,, height would be used to see if the player could get the ball whilst standing (in which case, he would not jump). If he can't , then his jumping is thrown into the mix as well.

Jumping is a frozen attribute I believe. Although it looks like it is included in the aerobic training, I have yet to see jumping improving for any of my players. It stays at whatever it was when the newgen is created. So, the only solution here is to use FMRTE. I use it to increase CB's jumping by 2, and I decrease acceleration and agility by 1, so that his overall CA is not affected.

Jumping is a frozen attribute I believe. Although it looks like it is included in the aerobic training, I have yet to see jumping improving for any of my players. It stays at whatever it was when the newgen is created. So, the only solution here is to use FMRTE. I use it to increase CB's jumping by 2, and I decrease acceleration and agility by 1, so that his overall CA is not affected.

I thought acceleration or pace or both had a larger weighting than other attributes?

Height IS a completely useless attribute. It in no way affects the ME. Fact, confirmed by SI more times than Wikipedia has been vandalised.

Yes, but i thought that height was represented by jumping? Taller players have higher jumping as a way for the ME to decpiher between Peter Crouch or a small striker in the air?

Yes, but i thought that height was represented by jumping? Taller players have higher jumping as a way for the ME to decpiher between Peter Crouch or a small striker in the air?

It is, but that doesn't change that the field labelled "height" is completely useless in the ME.

Tim Cahill is 5'10" with 17 jumping.

I did a player search for height at most 5'10" and jumping at least 15, and it yielded 26 players. All I have loaded are the Prem and Championship, as well as all French players.

I believe if I had a larger, more realistic database, I'd have far greater numbers, which would sort of debunk your theory.

EDIT: I forgot to untick the realistic results filter. Upon re-testing it, the search yielded 44 players, including:

Michael Essien

Bakary Sagna

Demy de Zeeuw

Mariano Pavone

Liedson

Ivan Cordoba

etc.

I also searched for players at least 6'3" with jumping less than 10 and it yielded 31 players.

No, it would show that researchers aren't the brightest.

5'10 with 15 jumping is okay. Cahill has been acknowledged as a mistake and lowered for the data update.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=2330584&highlight=jumping#post2330584

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=1607214&highlight=jumping#post1607214

It isn't theory, it's fact.

Also, jumping can improve:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=703590&highlight=jumping#post703590

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=2330584&highlight=jumping#post2330584

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=1607214&highlight=jumping#post1607214

It isn't theory, it's fact.

Also, jumping can improve:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=703590&highlight=jumping#post703590

You are posting a link from 2 years ago. In FM2010 jumping never improves in my game. Maybe it is a bug, maybe it was programmed like this, but it is a fact that jumping doesn't improve. Did you see it improve for your players?

That says height is used and determines when he needs to jump. So a tall player would have an advantage.

Cant believe it has only been introduce last year as I always ditch defenders and GKs with low height since they started putting the heights of players.

It really needs sorting for next year if realism is what they are after.

Ok, so from what I understand from those threads and PaulC's explanation...

5'10" man with jumping 15 would look like...

------ height reachable thanks to jumping 15

O (his head)

6'4" man with jumping 5 would look like...

------ height reachable thanks to jumping 5

O (his head)

PaulC stated "if players need to jump for the ball to reach it," so it would mean that yes, jumping plays a part. If the short player with high jump can reach a ball 6'4" in the air, then he can realistically challenge for it with the tall man who doesnt need to jump. But if the ball is higher than the short man's jumping height allows him to reach, than he's sol...

So that would mean that height isnt useless, right? If one has to jump to realistically reach the ball and the other doesnt, they still challenge for the same ball. I'd say that height would play a major role in deciding whether or not a player can even attempt to challenge high balls. I dont think you can say it's down to jumping alone.

I thought acceleration or pace or both had a larger weighting than other attributes?

For DC's jumping is weighted 4 points, whereas acceleration and pace are also weighted 4 points, and agility is weighted 3 points, AFAIK. So, adding 2 points in jumping and subtracting 1 from acceleration and 1 from agility, won't change the CA.

Guys, SI explained it so many times before. Height is included in jumping attribute. In other words, jumping attribute in FM = (players height + jumping) in real life.

So, Peter Crouch's jumping is 18, if a player who is only 6'0" has also 18 for jumping, this means that although Crouch is 7 inches taller than him, when they both jump, their heads reach the same height, which means the shorter player can jump 7 inches higher than Crouch, but since Crouch is 7 inches taller, their heads' maximum reach is the same. I hope this is clear enough.

Hes awesome!!!

except for his height and jumping hes world class!

Unrelaed question but if hes a regen shouldnt he have a regen face???

Ok' date=' so from what I understand from those threads and PaulC's explanation...

5'10" man with jumping 15 would look like...

------ height reachable thanks to jumping 15

O (his head)

6'4" man with jumping 5 would look like...

------ height reachable thanks to jumping 5

O (his head)

PaulC stated "if players need to jump for the ball to reach it," so it would mean that yes, jumping plays a part. If the short player with high jump can reach a ball 6'4" in the air, then he can realistically challenge for it with the tall man who doesnt need to jump. But if the ball is higher than the short man's jumping height allows him to reach, than he's sol...

So that would mean that height isnt useless, right? If one has to jump to realistically reach the ball and the other doesnt, they still challenge for the same ball. I'd say that height would play a major role in deciding whether or not a player can even attempt to challenge high balls. I dont think you can say it's down to jumping alone.[/quote']

Not sure I get your first bit but say a ball is 6'10" in the air and say that is the max two players can reach/jump.

A 6'4" player would need to jump 6" while a 5'7" player would need to jump 15" but BOTH PLAYERS WOULD HAVE THE SAME JUMPING SKILL.

As for your second part I agree it takes more than jumping to win a ball, other skills such as strength, positioning etc play a part. Some people are blinkered when it comes to skills rather than looking at the overall picture.

Ok' date=' so from what I understand from those threads and PaulC's explanation...

5'10" man with jumping 15 would look like...

------ height reachable thanks to jumping 15

O (his head)

6'4" man with jumping 5 would look like...

------ height reachable thanks to jumping 5

O (his head)

PaulC stated "if players need to jump for the ball to reach it," so it would mean that yes, jumping plays a part. If the short player with high jump can reach a ball 6'4" in the air, then he can realistically challenge for it with the tall man who doesnt need to jump. But if the ball is higher than the short man's jumping height allows him to reach, than he's sol...

So that would mean that height isnt useless, right? If one has to jump to realistically reach the ball and the other doesnt, they still challenge for the same ball. I'd say that height would play a major role in deciding whether or not a player can even attempt to challenge high balls. I dont think you can say it's down to jumping alone.[/quote']

I can

Paul's explanation refers to the animation shown in the 3D ME, not whether height is actually important. It has been confirmed via the researchers (who in in contact with Dean "Gripper" Gripton and Pete Sottrel) that this is the intended interpretation. So, a player with 18 jumping may have win the header, but he won't need to jump if he's 6'4, and will if he's 5'2.

That says height is used and determines when he needs to jump. So a tall player would have an advantage.

Cant believe it has only been introduce last year as I always ditch defenders and GKs with low height since they started putting the heights of players.

It really needs sorting for next year if realism is what they are after.

That refers... oh, I've answered that.

It's fine IMO. You could change your methods.

Personally, I'd sort it by not displaying height or weight.

Not sure I get your first bit but say a ball is 6'10" in the air and say that is the max two players can reach/jump.

A 6'4" player would need to jump 6" while a 5'7" player would need to jump 15" but BOTH PLAYERS WOULD HAVE THE SAME JUMPING SKILL.

As for your second part I agree it takes more than jumping to win a ball, other skills such as strength, positioning etc play a part. Some people are blinkered when it comes to skills rather than looking at the overall picture.

I agree that of course jumping isn't the sole factor, but height isn't one.

I agree that of course jumping isn't the sole factor, but height isn't one.

In terms of the ME but I get where some people in the thread are coming from.

They look for tall DCs (Maybe for the wrong reasons) and with good positioning & strength the need for the player to jump is somewhat minimised.

Guys, SI explained it so many times before. Height is included in jumping attribute. In other words, jumping attribute in FM = (players height + jumping) in real life.

So, Peter Crouch's jumping is 18, if a player who is only 6'0" has also 18 for jumping, this means that although Crouch is 7 inches taller than him, when they both jump, their heads reach the same height, which means the shorter player can jump 7 inches higher than Crouch, but since Crouch is 7 inches taller, their heads' maximum reach is the same. I hope this is clear enough.

Ah, Now I understand.

The number is the overall total jump he can do already taking his height into account. So you can ignore the height stat because it is already included in the jump stat.

I see what you mean now. Thanks.

#15 seems to answer this quite comprehensively. I have to say though... £75k a week for Rafinha?!

Ah, Now I understand.

The number is the overall total jump he can do already taking his height into account. So you can ignore the height stat because it is already included in the jump stat.

I see what you mean now. Thanks.

Yes mate, you got it right

So, a 5'4'' guy with a 20 for jumping and a 6'10 guy with 20 for jumping will both be able to reach the same height ball.

Jumping isn't really a measure of jumping then is it.....

Consider.....

The tallest a player can be is 6'10, therefore with this method a 5'4'' player with 1 for jumping must be able to jump 18'' off the ground.

Presuming that a 6'10 player with the same attribute would be unable to leave the ground at all.

Now, realistically, any able bodied person can jump 18'' in the air on the run so by this logic the aforementioned shortest player with 1 for jumping (the minimum height any player can reach) would be able to head a ball 8'4'' in the air.

:confused:

So, trust then that a tall player cannot have a very poor jumping attribute then?

Correct me if this is incorrect or illogical.

Surely Height + Jumping should equal the height of cross a player can head not jumping alone.

This is not a massive problem, just a little disappointed to realise that height is, in essence, irrelevant.

A DMC would be a good choice for him. That is certainly a player worth sticking in the middle of the park if you can.

Agree.

He would be far better as DM. His poor jumping and lack of pace will also hinder him as a full back but as a DM he could be class.

Hes awesome!!!

except for his height and jumping hes world class!

Unrelaed question but if hes a regen shouldnt he have a regen face???

I never use them until almost everyone is a newgen. Bit of a wierd thing with me, but I find myself pulled out of the game a little when I combine "real" and newgen players, since it's obviously such a fiction. If no one has a face I find the game blends together better. In FM09 I found myself favouring "real" players.

Just a little quirk of mine. I turn them back on around 2020 if I ever reach that far.

I've been using him when the team's main threat is fast and skillful strikers and he's averaging pretty well. I knew something wasn't right when players like Heskey were making him look like a donkey but he handled Rooney no problem. He's rotating with Toure at the moment, but will probably employ him as a DMC.

I'm loathe to use FMRTE since I'm sure the temptation will be there to use it for more than one player. Never download any of those tools until April/May time when I'm getting a little bored with the game.

Agree.

He would be far better as DM. His poor jumping and lack of pace will also hinder him as a full back but as a DM he could be class.

dm is position that needs most pace in game.. and dm needs jumping too.. clueless

dm is position that needs most pace in game.. and dm needs jumping too.. clueless

Gattuso - great jumping!

Makelele - great pace!

Two of the best Dms in the world proving it is you who is both clueless and a waste of time.