Anyone ever done a Mick McCarthy in FM?

I notice that Wolves have fielded a virtual reserve team tonight at Old Trafford presumably because they think they've got no chance and don't want to risk any of their first team players getting injured or suspended. Personally I think its a discrace and an insult to the fans who have paid to watch, but thats a debate for another forum.

Got me thinking though whether people ever do this in FM? Anyone ever fielded a weakened side in a tough league game as they feel they have no chance no matter what team they put out? Can't say I ever have myself but would be interested to hear if anyone has.

I sometimes leave out a player that will get a suspension if he gets a yellow card with a tough match coming up, but I'd never change 10 players against a top team.

What a Dumb tactic. I agree that it is an insult to those who are paying to watch, where is McCarthy's spirit? I recall Burnley beating Man U earlier on in the season.. You will always stand a chance in Football. Everything is Luck in this game

But to answer your question of course the answer would be No because I completely disagree with the tactics of this.

I always field a completly new second side for the earlier rounds of the Carling Cup, If we win those then so be it. At the start of the season my players start off pretty unfit anyway.

In terms of dull pragmatism, hes's probably right. Wolves' season will be decided in results against six other teams so to have a fit squad fo those is key. As a specticle, its dreadful, given that Man United potentially wont have the stongest team going either (havent looked)

There are rules against this though, I see a trip to Lancaster Gate happening.

Also, would the total squad numbers of players on the pitch break a new record?

Edit: I take that back, Man Utd have pretty much the strongest team available. Bit of an insult to Ferguson for his 900th Game

Be interesting to see of Chelsea or L'Arse lodge a complaint.

Can teams complain against these matters?

I have never done it as a weaker side against bigger teams. I do however regularly field my reserves and youngsters against weaker teams when i am a big team.

On the whole McCarthy fielding a reserve side thing, while i dont think it is fair on the fans who have travelled to the game, at the end of the day he needs to keep his top players fit for those relegation 6 pointers and stay in the premiership. The finacial implacations of staying up or going down are massive these days.

With rare exceptions, I have a selection policy that I stick to for all competitive matches. Did once rest most of my best 11 before a CL final in 05 and got beaten easily (in the final). I'm a strong believer in consistency anyway even discounting that as a one-off game against top opposition so wouldn't ever make large changes in one go.

Personally I think its a discrace and an insult to the fans who have paid to watch, but thats a debate for another forum.

Its bloody annoying as a Chelsea fan too!

Mick dropped so many players because of how hard they worked on Saturday against Tottenham, the players were absolutely knackered, and he thought it'd be better for the team to rest the players so they could have a rest and get better for the more winnable match against Burnley on Sunday, whilst I agree it's unfair the fans, he's a manager, and has to do what is best for the team he's managing.

Mick dropped so many players because of how hard they worked on Saturday against Tottenham, the players were absolutely knackered, and he thought it'd be better for the team to rest the players so they could have a rest and get better for the more winnable match against Burnley on Sunday, whilst I agree it's unfair the fans, he's a manager, and has to do what is best for the team he's managing.

Well said with that said, even the Wolves "reserves" did well against Man Utd...Sometimes this is down to the manager setting more realistic targets such as their next game against Burnley, that's why those main players needed a rest, especially when the festive season is near, fixtures are packed

In my Chelmsford save on FM09, thanks to a hat-trick from my centre back (corner bug, which I didn't know existed until afterwards!), we finished the first home leg of our FA Trophy semi-final with Kettering 5-0. They were top of the division above at the time so it was a monster of a result.

With a few injuries, players needing to be rested and a difficult league game coming up in the game after, I decided to send my kids and second XI out at their place in an ultra-defensive 5-4-1 formation. Being only 1-0 down at HT, I thought we'd ride it out comfortably.

A shoddy team talk later and we conceded three in the space of half an hour, with my keeper saving a few clear one-on-ones. My subs bench was devoid of the first choice midfielders I needed to have a semblance of control over the game and all I could do was hope. In injury time, Kettering had a corner - my keeper palmed away the resultant header before one of their midfielders took it on the volley and it cannoned back off the post. Had we conceded that last goal, there was no way we would have recovered. I won't make that mistake again!

Well said with that said, even the Wolves "reserves" did well against Man Utd...Sometimes this is down to the manager setting more realistic targets such as their next game against Burnley, that's why those main players needed a rest, especially when the festive season is near, fixtures are packed

Good point mate, the festive fixtures really are a ball ache, being so close together as well.

Well said with that said, even the Wolves "reserves" did well against Man Utd...Sometimes this is down to the manager setting more realistic targets such as their next game against Burnley, that's why those main players needed a rest, especially when the festive season is near, fixtures are packed

It's backfired so many times before though... Even this month, when Chelsea played Blackburn in the League Cup resting most of their first XI for their game away at Man City, which they promptly lost. If they don't win, they've just tossed a game.

Mick dropped so many players because of how hard they worked on Saturday against Tottenham, the players were absolutely knackered, and he thought it'd be better for the team to rest the players so they could have a rest and get better for the more winnable match against Burnley on Sunday, whilst I agree it's unfair the fans, he's a manager, and has to do what is best for the team he's managing.

I just find that to be a defeatest attitude. Its not as if wolves have europe to contend with aswell as league games either. Winning breeds confidence and after a good win at spurs who knows what a full strength side could've achieved at OT. Now i'm not sayin they could've won the game even though burnley have proved it can be done, but even a draw away to the champions would've been a terrific result. It could've been a massive boost to everyone at the club and it would've given them even more confidence for future games. Sort of a "If we can go to OT and get a win/draw then who else is there to fear?" type attitude.

Anyway the game is done and dusted now, but my only hope is that wolves do the same and field their reserves the next time they play the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Villa etc... As it would only be fair.

I usually give some of my backup players a start if i'm playing a lower division side in the early rounds of any of the cups but never would I do what McCarthy has done tonight in a league game and make 10 changes!

It's just crazy what he has done, he's basically just bent over and let man united do his team.

I just find that to be a defeatest attitude. Its not as if wolves have europe to contend with aswell as league games either. Winning breeds confidence and after a good win at spurs who knows what a full strength side could've achieved at OT. Now i'm not sayin they could've won the game even though burnley have proved it can be done, but even a draw away to the champions would've been a terrific result. It could've been a massive boost to everyone at the club and it would've given them even more confidence for future games. Sort of a "If we can go to OT and get a win/draw then who else is there to fear?" type attitude.

Anyway the game is done and dusted now, but my only hope is that wolves do the same and field their reserves the next time they play the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Villa etc... As it would only be fair.

Come on mate be fair, look how we played against Spurs, the players were knackered! They couldn't have played like they did on Saturday, at the same work rate, they have to work harder to get the points, which is what we did at Spurs, that's why he dropped players, it's all good saying "yeah, play like that again", but the players have to be utterly fit, and after running around chasing EVERY ball and every player for 96mins on Saturday, I think it would have been very hard to do the same against Man Utd tonight, he's done what I would have done, dropped the players, so they can train in the week, get fully fit and ready for the more winnable game on Sunday.

Come on mate be fair, look how we played against Spurs, the players were knackered! They couldn't have played like they did on Saturday, at the same work rate, they have to work harder to get the points, which is what we did at Spurs, that's why he dropped players, it's all good saying "yeah, play like that again", but the players have to be utterly fit, and after running around chasing EVERY ball and every player for 96mins on Saturday, I think it would have been very hard to do the same against Man Utd tonight, he's done what I would have done, dropped the players, so they can train in the week, get fully fit and ready for the more winnable game on Sunday.

O.k mate fair enough, but if thats the way your manager sees it then I think he should play fair and field your reserves against teams that by rights they should have no chance in beating next time you play them. Teams like i've mentioned above. Somehow I don't think he will though.

This is classic Tzu Su --> Choose your battles. In this scenario I think McCarthy is showing good leadership. If Wolves wins against Burnley next game it will be called a masterstroke and the fans more than happy to see the reserves play another game.

So people are ready to be up in arms about Wolves fielding a weaker side, but when the top 4 do it, its ok? Hypocrisy much?

Just tried it myself against Leicester at home, playing all fringe players and a couple of youngsters as I have 4 games in a week with tough local derby coming up and then FA Cup third round. 2 up and cruising at half time, drew 2 all - then again that always happens with the full strength side anyway !

As Rangers in FM09 I often clinched before the split, I would play my full team against Celtic and reserves against the teams chasing them for second place. I often would still win but once Hearts beat me 9-0 and got 2nd place :-)

I totally back Mick's decision tonight they have a massive game at the weekend which they have a better chance of winning against Burnley as opposed to beating Utd tonight.

If the big clubs do it, why can't the smaller clubs do it

I just find that to be a defeatest attitude. Its not as if wolves have europe to contend with aswell as league games either. Winning breeds confidence and after a good win at spurs who knows what a full strength side could've achieved at OT. Now i'm not sayin they could've won the game even though burnley have proved it can be done, but even a draw away to the champions would've been a terrific result. It could've been a massive boost to everyone at the club and it would've given them even more confidence for future games. Sort of a "If we can go to OT and get a win/draw then who else is there to fear?" type attitude.

Anyway the game is done and dusted now, but my only hope is that wolves do the same and field their reserves the next time they play the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Villa etc... As it would only be fair.

If there weren't any midweek matches do you think Mick would put out that side? I seriously doubt so...Common sense mate

I sometimes change all 11 players when I'm playing lower teams in the spanish cup but against the big teams it just makes you look bad tbh

It would be interesting to see if the AI teams do this, anyone know of, or seen the AI rest many first team players against a top four side?

It would be interesting to see if the AI teams do this, anyone know of, or seen the AI rest many first team players against a top four side?

Very unlikely that they would IGH

I also agree with Mike decision, i did that before in FM, sometimes teams rested the better players against the weaker team and save them for difficult opponent, but they lost both games, they difficult one & the easier one.

so Mike looked for one in hand instead of tiring them more vs Man Utd which could made the game vs Burnley more difficult.

to be honest, before the game, i was afraid of our biggest win of the season vs Wigan couldn't be the biggest one any more

well done Wolves, the 0-3 defeat at OT could be expect even with starting XI.

Very unlikely that they would IGH

I agree, unlikely.

I agree, unlikely.

If I were Mick McCarthy I wouldnt have thrown in the towel before the game even started. I would set my team out to try and aggrevate United and counter attack. Especially after them losing the last game. well it is Mick McCarthy so i'm not surprised

The original topic is about would you do this in FM. I've done this in a different context. I've sewn up promotion but have a tricky semi-final coming up against a team in a higher league. So I've put out the reserves in the league fixture and saved the first team for the cup clash.

The original topic is about would you do this in FM. I've done this in a different context. I've sewn up promotion but have a tricky semi-final coming up against a team in a higher league. So I've put out the reserves in the league fixture and saved the first team for the cup clash.

Well that is different and understandable but because you think your going to lose you just put out weaker players is just cowardly by McCarthty imo

Tried this once. As Derby County, lost 1-7 to Sunderland which brought morale so far down, defeating the purpose of it.

I've done it.

Not quite to the same extent - I've brought in 3 or 4 youngsters/fringe players when playing away against Chelsea or Man Utd when I've got an important European/Cup fixture only a few days later - and also done so when there's the end of season fixture congestion.

On some occasions I've won or drawn the game I expected to lose. But then again, when playing the reserve players I will often plump for those with good physical stats - either pace & acceleration, agility & stamina, or jumping and heading. If I have to be defensive, I'd rather play to a plan - e.g. stop momentum with hard tackling and high closing down and utilise players who are strong in the air to nullify their threat, whilst using quick players who can break.

Marlon Harewood, Craig Gardner and Barry Bannan are often players drafted in on such occasions (they seldom make the bench for normal games if the squad is fully fit - although Bannan plays a few European games and most cup matches)

If I were Mick McCarthy I wouldnt have thrown in the towel before the game even started. I would set my team out to try and aggrevate United and counter attack. Especially after them losing the last game. well it is Mick McCarthy so i'm not surprised

Agree with this.

I follow Arsene's model. I play all my youth in minor cup runs "meaningless" games.

Mick probably figured the team that fought so hard against Tottenham deserved a break from playing defence all night.

I have never done it as a weaker side against bigger teams. I do however regularly field my reserves and youngsters against weaker teams when i am a big team.

Same here.

Well that is different and understandable but because you think your going to lose you just put out weaker players is just cowardly by McCarthty imo

Agree with this also.

And just because on paper the burnley game looks more winnable it doesn't mean to say it's goin to be. Take for instance we played and beat Man utd quite comfortably this season but could only manage a draw at home to Birmingham city. Now on paper you would've thought the birmingham game would've be a banker for us and the Utd game would've proved more difficult, but it didn't. And why? Because football matches aren't played out on paper thats why, anything can happen. So I just don't get McCarthys mentallity, I mean whats the point turning up to play the game if you have that sort of defeatest attitude. You might aswell not turn up at all and forfeit the game imo. That will atleast mean you won't have to worry about your poor players being 'tired' and you can concentrate on beating a 'lesser' team with all your players being super fresh.

As four the big four doin the same, I think thats a little different. They have more games to play for starters plus the likes of Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal, but not so much Liverpool at the moment, all have so many good players the they could field a second, possibly even a third side and they'd still be a lot stronger then a lot of the premier league sides. So I don't think it makes that much of a difference what side they put out really.

Now answeing the question, have I ever done it in fm? The answer is it depends what league im in. If i'm a premiership or championship side and i'm playin a lower league/non-league side in the earlier rounds of the league/fa cup then yes I have done. But I have never, ever done it in the league, even if i've had it sown up.

Its smart by Mick McCarthy.

Agree with this also.

Now answeing the question, have I ever done it in fm? The answer is it depends what league im in. If i'm a premiership or championship side and i'm playin a lower league/non-league side in the earlier rounds of the league/fa cup then yes I have done. But I have never, ever done it in the league, even if i've had it sown up.

Different expectations mate. I enjoy my game with Farsley and it took me 3 seasons to get promoted from the BSN, got relegated the next season, promoted back into the BSP the next season, and another 3 to get promoted again from the BSP. I set an objective at the start of each season and everytime I have to make a decision, I go back and look at my objectives. If my objective is to avoid relegation, I pick my battles and send out weak teams (and especially when I play away) if I have a more winnable game three days later. No point losing both or even drawing both because my players are unfit. 3 points from 2 games is better than 0 or 1 point. I do a McCarthy all the time in FM and I'll do it in real life too if I had to. Have you ever felt the pain of relegation when you play FM? It'll probably be more painful in real life.

There's no point arguing for equality and asking McCarthy to do the same whenever he faces the other big 4 sides because that wouldn't always be the best for his team. I'm sure he knows what to do and when to do what he does. At the end of the season, McCarthy answers to the fans of his team, not the fans of other teams.

I personally think McCarthy had every right to do it, I hate it when fans of other teams moan about "weakened" teams being put out, if he has say a squad of 30 he has the right to pick anyone of them he damn well likes imo, and lets face it is there much of a difference between Wolves 1st teamers and back up players?

I recall Burnley beating Man U earlier on in the season.. You will always stand a chance in Football. Everything is Luck in this game

You can't really compare the first choice players from one Premier League team to the reserves squad of a team of similar stature.

I rest my main first teamers for my Spanish Federation Cup matches

Anyway the game is done and dusted now, but my only hope is that wolves do the same and field their reserves the next time they play the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Villa etc... As it would only be fair.

And this is exaclty my issue with it - as a Spurs fan I'd be incredibly annoyed if Wolves put out a weakened team against ManC, 'Pool and Villa, bearing in mind they are our rivals for European places.

On the other hand, I can't see how teams could complain as he used members of the first team squad.

In game, I wouldn;t wholsale change the team until there was an option in game to basically say to your squad (and fans) "this is an unimportant game and a good chance to see young / fringe players in action". At the moment, it's not worth the hit on morale.

Didn't Bryan Robson do this when he was at WBA?

Personally if I was a Wolves fan I would be unhappy. I'd want to try to go to Old Trafford and win with our strongest available team. Isn't that why they strived to be in the Premiership? To play the best???

ive done it as linfield boss, had a must win Champions League game midweek and a visit from the bottom of the table club on the saturday, rested my first 11, won on the saturday with ressies, then won midweek, some see it as defeatest attitude, but some see it as a game your expected to lose so why not rest players, whats the point in playing a full strength side, getting your keeper and main striker crocked and getting relegated because of it?

Come on mate be fair, look how we played against Spurs, the players were knackered! They couldn't have played like they did on Saturday, at the same work rate, they have to work harder to get the points, which is what we did at Spurs, that's why he dropped players, it's all good saying "yeah, play like that again", but the players have to be utterly fit, and after running around chasing EVERY ball and every player for 96mins on Saturday, I think it would have been very hard to do the same against Man Utd tonight, he's done what I would have done, dropped the players, so they can train in the week, get fully fit and ready for the more winnable game on Sunday.

For the record you played no football against Spurs just parked the bus and ran around for 90 minutes. Anti football at its worst.

Because it sends out the wrong message to your team?

"Sorry guys you lot are useless. We're going to lose so why even bother showing up"

Now, the interesting question would be, what if the fixtures had been reversed (ie. ManU on Saturday and Spurs yesterday)?

I'm sure I remember a bit of furore a few years ago with one of the top four sides putting out a weakened team against a relegation candidate and losing - it may have been Arsenal...

Didn't Bryan Robson do this when he was at WBA?

Yeah Robson did it when he was our manager away at Chelsea because we had Birmingham at home 3 days later. We still lost BOTH games though!!!!

The only time i've done it is in meaningless games to me, like if i've already all but sewn up the title i've played a near reserve team. This was done mainly because my players completely took the foot off the gas knowing the title was theirs, and so were getting poor results (two, to be precise, before i dropped them all). I would have no qualms doing it if i had a meaningless game in the league and an FA Cup/Champions League final ahead, either.

When i would never do it is if i'm still competitive in the competition i'm playing in. Even as a big club, i'd never play a weak team in the Carling Cup because i want to win every competition i enter. The extent i would go would be to leave a key player or two on the bench, but no more than that.

If i don't have anything to play for, though, i will happily play a weak side with total disregard for the integrity of the league. Saying that, it is just a computer game...