Anyone know....

....in an ideal world what/how long would be needed to be 99% sure of a bug/complaint free game out of the box? Maybe missing a year?

bug free? almost impossible.

complaint free? absolutely impossible - some people can't be pleased.

....in an ideal world what/how long would be needed to be 99% sure of a bug/complaint free game out of the box? Maybe missing a year?

its never ever gonna happen with si's current testing procedure

It's never going to happen with any game ever. Bug free as said above is almost impossible and complaint free well especially with a football game where results can go either way then its never going to happen either.

its never ever gonna happen with si's current testing procedure

And what do you know about si testing procedure your not a testa :confused:

And what do you know about si testing procedure your not a testa :confused:

i know its absolutely shambolic, the things they miss are criminal

i know its absolutely shambolic, the things they miss are criminal

No my friend you know nothing as your not a testa and dont realise the time that go's into it and how tricky somes bugs are to find and remove without causing more problems

bug free? almost impossible.

complaint free? absolutely impossible - some people can't be pleased.

why would bug free be impossible? if their testers had a brain we wouldnt be seeing all those red cards. it amazes me how i can spot many bugs in 3 hours that their testers cant.

No my friend you know nothing as your not a testa and dont realise the time that go's into it and how tricky somes bugs are to find and remove without causing more problems

im no friend of yours :confused: and why are you trying to defend the undefendable. as i said the testers miss to many things and are getting worse every year.

im no friend of yours :confused: and why are you trying to defend the undefendable. as i said the testers miss to many things and are getting worse every year.

Because people like you have no clue simple as

it amazes me how i can spot many bugs in 3 hours that their testers cant.

scary isnt it

scary isnt it

Alot of bugs are spotted but some just are't fixed in time for release simple hench the patches as long as si release these patches to make the game more better and stable whats the problem no game is perfect

Well according to members of the testing team FM is one of the most difficult games ever made, which is the reason for the problems. maybe the answer is take more time and make it more simple.

Just a thought.

How do you know they missed all those bugs? Perhaps they spotted them too.

The fact is that they have to meet a release date with this game, and make it as playable as possible before that time comes. If they miss that release date they lose a lot of money.

That is what patches are for, and while it's frustrating to see some bugs, it far from makes the game "unplayable". The only reason the game becomes "unplayable" is because some people deem it to be.

Yes there appear to be some serious bugs, and in an ideal world SHOULD have been sorted out before release. But if this had been any other game, an original title, or something, it would more likely have been delayed, at least by a little. But with this kind of game, I think it is hard to do that.

Just to go off topic but make a point modern warfare 2 as had 3 patches already for ps3 and its only been out few weeks and been in delelopment for 2 years suppose thats unplayable aswell is it ????

Just to go off topic but make a point modern warfare 2 as had 3 patches already for ps3 and its only been out few weeks and been in delelopment for 2 years suppose thats unplayable aswell is it ????

Agreed. Ironically for such a loved game, Modern Warfare 2 has 100x more complaints over a single issue than FM10 does over all of its issues combined. If you think people are unhappy here over the minor bugs you should see the furore they have over refusing to add dedicated server support/admin tools.

its never ever gonna happen with si's current testing procedure

Since you seem to know exactly whats wrong with the game and the testing procedure, maybe you should share your expertise with SI. Since you seem to have all the answers, Im sure they would love to have your help.

Nows your chance to get things working correctly

I just think Sports Interactive need to get their fingers out and put a bit more effort into the game, simple as that.

I know for a fact they lay about the office all day every day playing FIFA, and occasionally Miles will say; "Come on lads, let's do a bit of work..."

This usually results in synchronised groans from most of the team, except for Ter who'll be at the back tucking into a big box of Nandos Chicken.

Just to go off topic but make a point modern warfare 2 as had 3 patches already for ps3 and its only been out few weeks and been in delelopment for 2 years suppose thats unplayable aswell is it ????

I have it on Xbox and it's fine, maybe that's Sony's fault.

I just think Sports Interactive need to get their fingers out and put a bit more effort into the game, simple as that.

I know for a fact they lay about the office all day every day playing FIFA, and occasionally Miles will say; "Come on lads, let's do a bit of work..."

This usually results in synchronised groans from most of the team, except for Ter who'll be at the back tucking into a big box of Nandos Chicken.

As comical as that image may or may not be I'm not sure it is really productive. Whether it was sarcastic or not.

SI work hard to make this game, and I think they do a pretty good job. Yes I have stated my grievances with the game in other threads sometimes. But I would never accuse them of not caring or not working hard.

It's not going to be possible to please everyone all of the time. I'm sure they take notice every time something happens and learn from it and work hard to fix it.

I have it on Xbox and it's fine, maybe that's Sony's fault.

Dose't matter who's fault it is still as 3 patches already with a 4th a planned you miss my point anyway you seem to think only fm needs patches

Dose't matter who's fault it is still as 3 patches already with a 4th a planned you miss my point anyway you seem to think only fm needs patches

Absolutely not. I think it's you who's missed my point, I wast simply asking anyone who had a knowlage of these things if given the right circumstances this game, or any game for that matter, could avoid what we have seen on this forum since release.

Ill make a suggestion for SI. That wont cause or i hope it wont cause any problems for the time being.

Take 2 years to make the next game, get some longer term testers rather than some for 2-3months a year. In making a new game over two years realese a DB update for the missed year.

In this time the game could be greatly improved, they have spent alot of time in recent years making the new match engine which is a costly and timely thing to do. If they take two years to make the next one there will be far less bugs.

And im sure a number of people would pay a small fee for say an add-on game for the missed year rather than a new DB which could be installed much like an expansion of midevial total war.

Ill make a suggestion for SI. That wont cause or i hope it wont cause any problems for the time being.

Take 2 years to make the next game, get some longer term testers rather than some for 2-3months a year. In making a new game over two years realese a DB update for the missed year.

In this time the game could be greatly improved, they have spent alot of time in recent years making the new match engine which is a costly and timely thing to do. If they take two years to make the next one there will be far less bugs.

And im sure a number of people would pay a small fee for say an add-on game for the missed year rather than a new DB which could be installed much like an expansion of midevial total war.

In the end though, money is what matters. Particularly in less than stable times (such as CM/BG Studios laying off 80% of their staff), it's not realistic to think that SI can spend an extra year developing a game with next-to-no income supporting it throughout, or with the prospect of in the end having a product that will no doubt still be lamented by some and in doing so making half as much (perhaps less) financially.

The game is the best yet, and has few bugs (none which are "gamebreaking" or close to it - cliched comment but compare it to a rival product). From experience with any game, regardless of how good it may be, there will still be those who not only have to make any critical points about the game in a less than eloquent way, but also refuse to listen to alternative opinions, refuse to admit that their hardware may be the issue, and refuse to acknowledge that they're the minority and that to be taken seriously they have to make their point properly (grammar/spelling, rationale etc).

I went a bit off my original point at the end there, but nonetheless I felt it had to be said.

In the end though, money is what matters. Particularly in less than stable times (such as CM/BG Studios laying off 80% of their staff), it's not realistic to think that SI can spend an extra year developing a game with next-to-no income supporting it throughout, or with the prospect of in the end having a product that will no doubt still be lamented by some and in doing so making half as much (perhaps less) financially.

The game is the best yet, and has few bugs (none which are "gamebreaking" or close to it - cliched comment but compare it to a rival product). From experience with any game, regardless of how good it may be, there will still be those who not only have to make any critical points about the game in a less than eloquent way, but also refuse to listen to alternative opinions, refuse to admit that their hardware may be the issue, and refuse to acknowledge that they're the minority and that to be taken seriously they have to make their point properly (grammar/spelling, rationale etc).

I went a bit off my original point at the end there, but nonetheless I felt it had to be said.

Like i said i didnt want an arguement which i wont have.

The financial thing i understand thats why i suggested the Expansion game for the missed year.

Not looking for an argument. Reasoned debate is far too rare around here.

Wouldn't work imo. To the casual gamer, they'd see either the demise of FM as an annual series, or see the update as, in escence, a full FM realise and most likely be hugely disappointed by it. It would have to be about £10, and if any higher it'll seriously hamper future sales; something it would probably do at any price.

its never ever gonna happen with any existing software developer's current testing procedure

fixed for you.

I have it on Xbox and it's fine, maybe that's Sony's fault.

ummmm... it's had patches on the Xbox too

Hmm.. awful spelling of essence up there. :o

ummmm... it's had patches on the Xbox too

Not to my knowlage. Mine worked fine from day one, no patches, no downloads, no auto updates. Have seen the problems with PS3 on you tube though, picked the right concole I guess.

Ill make a suggestion for SI. That wont cause or i hope it wont cause any problems for the time being.

Take 2 years to make the next game, get some longer term testers rather than some for 2-3months a year. In making a new game over two years realese a DB update for the missed year.

I'm not sure how you've come to this conclusion about our testers?

We employ a team of full-time testers, temporary testers, beta testers and our research team who work on testing FM all year around and not just 2-3 months. The combined number of people testing FM is well into the hundreds and that doesn't include SEGA's test team either who are also testing over prolonged periods of time.

Internally at SI we have a team of at least 11-12 full-time testers, which is a testament to how seriously we take it at here. There are not many other developers out there with a QA team anywhere near the size of ours and when I joined the company some 6 years ago, there was just 1 full-time person working in QA. It's an area we've actively looked to improve and grow over the years and have made serious investments in.

Not to my knowlage. Mine worked fine from day one, no patches, no downloads, no auto updates. Have seen the problems with PS3 on you tube though, picked the right concole I guess.

Hmmm... was told by an xbox owning friend that there was a patch a few days back.

But tbh, it's besides the point. EVERY game has bugs. MW2 may "work fine" but it doesn't mean that there aren't bugs. They're just often less noticeable in a game like MW2 than they are in FM, due to the nature of the games.

People are forgetting that at the end of the day it's all about money.

SI don't really 'care' whether there's bugs or not. The overall aim is for them to shift as many copies of the game each year. What they do is put out a game that costs the least amount of time and money to make but make sure it is adequately playable. Plus, by leaving bugs in the game it gives them something to 'improve' for the next one.

No way in a million years will they miss a year. Why should they? FM is still one of the biggest selling games of the year. It is EVERY year. So whatever they're doing they're doing right.

It makes no financial sense to miss a year.

Hmmm... was told by an xbox owning friend that there was a patch a few days back.

But tbh, it's besides the point. EVERY game has bugs. MW2 may "work fine" but it doesn't mean that there aren't bugs. They're just often less noticeable in a game like MW2 than they are in FM, due to the nature of the games.

I don't think you would see this disscussion on a forum about MW2 though, thats the difference. In the end I guess you're right it is beside the point.

On the contrary my friend, it takes so much to fill you that the staff at Nando's go out the back and grab a big cardboard box for you.

"Oh here he comes again.. Everyone! Man your stations!"

everyone says si should miss a year but i can garauntee those same people would be slating them come october when they dont release it

Daft idea.

People saying that they should put more effort into testing have obviously never been involved with creating a piece of software and then trying to debug it. 10,000 line code is hard enough to debug, never mind the million+ lines that FM has. You see a bug, you then have to try and find the piece of coding which is wrong, then you have to try and fix it and then hey presto another bug appears. It's a vicious circle.

People saying that they should put more effort into testing have obviously never been involved with creating a piece of software and then trying to debug it. 10,000 line code is hard enough to debug, never mind the million+ lines that FM has. You see a bug, you then have to try and find the piece of coding which is wrong, then you have to try and fix it and then hey presto another bug appears. It's a vicious circle.

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about, because THIS is a vicious circle:

Just thought I'd clarify that for everyone.

I agree with you btw

Yawn, the same people, saying the same thing OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER.

Get over yourselves already.

Or maybe they are all aliases of Gypsy Boots?

I was pretty ****ed off with FM09 last year as it didn't work and had bugs in it from the previous version plus the 3D engine was shiite. I even took the game back but ended up buying it again about 3-4 months down the line. By that time it was much more stable and I enjoyed it thouroughly.

Morale of this boring story; if you're not happy, either wait for the inevitable patch or take it back and buy it again once the testers have done their thankless task and reported all the bugs and got them fixed.

No need to have a gap year for this game as over the last few releases the 2nd or 3rd patch tends to fix all but the most obscure bugs.

How did you 'take it back'? :confused:

Any shop I know that sells PC games won't take them back once they've be opened. Unless there is a huge scrape over the disc or something, obviously.

That statement is factually incorrect. Everyone knows Nando's chicken comes in bags and not boxes.

I'm a programmer. I love Nando's - Can I work at SI?