Defensive Insanity.

I've about had it with my defense. I've started about 20 seasons now with Bayern and have aborted them all due to a completely failure of my backline to function properly. I've tried all sorts of different defensive settings, with all sorts of excellent defenses - to no a. I use 3 defenders backed up by two DM's - but the problem is not too few defenders, because I almost never concede from crosses. In my last season I had Fazio, Demichelis, and Thiago Silva - and conceded no less than 49 in the Bundesliga alone, it's absurd. In FM 2009 I used the same formation and almost identical tactics and conceded on average 17 per season over 7 seasons. I'm reallt frustrated and completely out of ideas, does anybody have any advice? And has anybody has these same problem as me? As it is now, my plan is simply to wait for the patch and hope things improve with that - or reinstall the game without the 10.1 patch as I've heard that that may help.

It's your tactics.

You say you don't concede from crosses, how DO you concede? My guess would be long shots? This seems to be a common complaint for FM10, try to combat it with more closing down of individual players. Have you considered trying a different tactic? Perhaps a flat 4 at the back?

Yes, tons of people are frustrated with defending in general.

Wether this is because of a lack of guidance on how to be successful at the game, or because the match engine is poor, I don't know.

Seems to me that the biggest problem is that really good defenders do stupid mistakes too often.

There's also obvious issues with closing down and tackling that SI have said they're taking a look at for the next patch.

Yes, defending is a issue in the game but remember, the more you change the worse it will get.

Yeah its an issue that is being worked on for patch 2. SI are aware of the problems.

Well, I'm doing very well with Bayern...crrently in year 2018...it's November and I only conceded 2 league goals...most of goals come from long shots, the other thing I've noticed is that when opponents winger goes for the goal line my central defenders all take a step forward (no relation to offside trap) and often opposition striker is absolutely free 4-5 meters ahead of goal. But otherwise I play 4 at the back, one DC covering, two wing backs, ball wining DMC...

You say you don't concede from crosses, how DO you concede? My guess would be long shots? This seems to be a common complaint for FM10, try to combat it with more closing down of individual players. Have you considered trying a different tactic?

Long shots or magical through balls are generally the source of my troubles. And I've tried closing down, and stand off, as well as many other defensive setting combinations. None work for me.

Yes, defending is a issue in the game but remember, the more you change the worse it will get.

I know. I don't ever do constant, drastic changes over the course of a season.

Yes, tons of people are frustrated with defending in general.

Wether this is because of a lack of guidance on how to be successful at the game, or because the match engine is poor, I don't know.

Seems to me that the biggest problem is that really good defenders do stupid mistakes too often.

There's also obvious issues with closing down and tackling that SI have said they're taking a look at for the next patch.

Yeah its an issue that is being worked on for patch 2. SI are aware of the problems.

Thank. God.

SI may be having a look into this 'issue'. But there is no way this is even an 'issue' IMO. Many people who are tactically aware have no issues at all with the defending in this game. Look at the FM stories forum, Good players & Team guide forum. People are conceding less than 30 goals a season even with mediocre defenses like Fulham. So it's 100% your tactics.

Few suggestions:

- If you leave the matches on 'key' or 'extended' , most of the time you won't be able to spot the tactical/formation changes by opposition AI managers, and hence you will concede too often.

- Do work on individual players before the match by using 'opposition player instructions.' This would really help you. In real life, managers don't leave people like Ronaldo, Kaka alone and hope their team would take care of the situations. You 'have' to do something about in form/talented opposition players to do well in the matches.

- Start thinking like a real life manager, you will never ever have an issue with this game.

I once again appreciate SI for making such a wonderful sijulation.

SI may be having a look into this 'issue'. But there is no way this is even an 'issue' IMO. Many people who are tactically aware have no issues at all with the defending in this game. Look at the FM stories forum, Good players & Team guide forum. People are conceding less than 30 goals a season even with mediocre defenses like Fulham. So it's 100% your tactics.

That might be a valid argument if:

1. I've played this game for near 1000 hours now, most of which in FM 2009, where I had no tactical problems. I'm not some tactical fool as you seem to be implying. Furthermore, I've tried all sorts of different tactics over the course of numerous save with superb defenders (Demichelis, Chiellini, Thiago Silva, Fazio, etc).

and 2. I'm using almost the exact same tactics as I did in FM 2009, and in that game I had absolutely no problems. I accepted that it may be tactical issues earlier on, but after constantly striving to ensure that my tactics were fine and i have good defenders - I can no longer honestly assume that my tactics are the problem.

I am sick and tired of people ALWAYS saying its your bloody tactics and watch the full match, SI have admitted theres a problem with the defending and closing down like they always do when there is one, they are one of the most honest game makers in the world, there are too many people having problems not to be something wrong with the match engine, and as for watching the whole match, we are not all saddos who only play FM 24/7, we have families, jobs, lives outside of the FM world we create as managers, we don't have time to spend 30 minutes watching the same match and only get through a season every 2 months.

To be fair, the top 5 teams in the Bundesliga last season all conceded between 41-47 goals, so conceding 49 is not totally absurd.

Bundesliga is one of, if not the highest scoring "big league" in Europe

That might be a valid argument if:

1. I've played this game for near 1000 hours now, most of which in FM 2009, where I had no tactical problems. I'm not some tactical fool as you seem to be implying. Furthermore, I've tried all sorts of different tactics over the course of numerous save with superb defenders (Demichelis, Chiellini, Thiago Silva, Fazio, etc).

and 2. I'm using almost the exact same tactics as I did in FM 2009, and in that game I had absolutely no problems. I accepted that it may be tactical issues earlier on, but after constantly striving to ensure that my tactics were fine and i have good defenders - I can no longer honestly assume that my tactics are the problem.

This isn't FM09 though is it? Therefore your going to have to work on your tactics to suit FM2010. SI have admitted they are looking at the 'problems' but honestly I (and many others) don't seem to have the same problems. In the demo I struggled but used that to figure out what works, what doesn't and how to play to the strenghts of my players and exploit weaknesses in the opposition. I have played more hours of FM than I could ever tell my girlfriend and this is clearly the most challenging version yet. The extra challenge makes it more rewarding. Starting over and over is not going to help is it? You need to figure out how you want to play, make sure it suits your team and then let them settle in to your style. So what if you don't win the treble in the first season? Wheres the satisfaction in that? Work at it dude, the game is not broken.

There's a problem with it, SI knows it, we know it .. its going to be fixed hopefully.

Unless all the crappy players evolved into this magical combination of Aimar/Gerrard kind of thing from one year to another then there is something going on.

I'm not trying to get on some peoples nerves but there are some fanboys that, even if the game was just an image of a giant turd, would still say the game is the best thing ever (PES anyone?)

We have to report the good parts AND the bad parts, otherwise there is no evolution.

You're all seeing this from a defence point of view and thats what i dont understand, but do you actually think any player can execute through balls this easily or score from long shots whenever they feel like it?

If they could do that, than damn, every single team would be rich, selling worldclass players every year.

This isn't FM09 though is it? Therefore your going to have to work on your tactics to suit FM2010. SI have admitted they are looking at the 'problems' but honestly I (and many others) don't seem to have the same problems. In the demo I struggled but used that to figure out what works, what doesn't and how to play to the strenghts of my players and exploit weaknesses in the opposition. I have played more hours of FM than I could ever tell my girlfriend and this is clearly the most challenging version yet. The extra challenge makes it more rewarding. Starting over and over is not going to help is it? You need to figure out how you want to play, make sure it suits your team and then let them settle in to your style. So what if you don't win the treble in the first season? Wheres the satisfaction in that? Work at it dude, the game is not broken.

Agree 100% with this. I think it's time now to add a 'Difficulty Level' option in the game setting to keep all the moaners happy here.

The current FM 2010 difficult level would fall in the difficult level 'Hard' because it is realistic.

Increase the closing down and tackling from the current version to something unrealistic and give it the difficult level 'Medium'.

Make every defender like John Terry, every DM like Mascherano, every forward like Torres and give it a difficult level 'Easy'.

Everyone will be happy.

There's a problem with it, SI knows it, we know it .. its going to be fixed hopefully.

Unless all the crappy players evolved into this magical combination of Aimar/Gerrard kind of thing from one year to another then there is something going on.

I'm not trying to get on some peoples nerves but there are some fanboys that, even if the game was just an image of a giant turd, would still say the game is the best thing ever (PES anyone?)

We have to report the good parts AND the bad parts, otherwise there is no evolution.

You're all seeing this from a defence point of view and thats what i dont understand, but do you actually think any player can execute through balls this easily or score from long shots whenever they feel like it?

If they could do that, than damn, every single team would be rich, selling worldclass players every year.

Well said mate, fanboys are the worst kind of fans, refusing to admit that a game has problems doesn't help games evolve into good games, they just make good games stagnate into shoddy ones, players told EA what was wrong with FIFA and they finally fixed it and now its brilliant, unless the fanboys want FM to turn into the management version of Pro Evo, get your head out of the sand and stop only seeing the good bits but admit there are problems and help SI fix them.

Well said mate, fanboys are the worst kind of fans, refusing to admit that a game has problems doesn't help games evolve into good games, they just make good games stagnate into shoddy ones, players told EA what was wrong with FIFA and they finally fixed it and now its brilliant, unless the fanboys want FM to turn into the management version of Pro Evo, get your head out of the sand and stop only seeing the good bits but admit there are problems and help SI fix them.

Totally agree with all of this i have even said it myself in numerous posts so here here

Agree 100% with this. I think it's time now to add a 'Difficulty Level' option in the game setting to keep all the moaners happy here.

The current FM 2010 difficult level would fall in the difficult level 'Hard' because it is realistic.

Increase the closing down and tackling from the current version to something unrealistic and give it the difficult level 'Medium'.

Make every defender like John Terry, every DM like Mascherano, every forward like Torres and give it a difficult level 'Easy'.

Everyone will be happy.

Difficulty levels in FM are impratical as they are needless. There is no sensible way to include this into the game so I don't think they will ever be implimented (thankfully).

Agree 100% with this. I think it's time now to add a 'Difficulty Level' option in the game setting to keep all the moaners happy here.

The current FM 2010 difficult level would fall in the difficult level 'Hard' because it is realistic.

Increase the closing down and tackling from the current version to something unrealistic and give it the difficult level 'Medium'.

Make every defender like John Terry, every DM like Mascherano, every forward like Torres and give it a difficult level 'Easy'.

Everyone will be happy.

Difficulty levels in FM are impratical as they are needless. There is no sensible way to include this into the game so I don't think they will ever be implimented (thankfully).

Agree 100% with this. I think it's time now to add a 'Difficulty Level' option in the game setting to keep all the moaners happy here.

The current FM 2010 difficult level would fall in the difficult level 'Hard' because it is realistic.

Increase the closing down and tackling from the current version to something unrealistic and give it the difficult level 'Medium'.

Make every defender like John Terry, every DM like Mascherano, every forward like Torres and give it a difficult level 'Easy'.

Everyone will be happy.

Rofl @ this post.

I 100% agree with above posts that think you are a fanboi and actually are a negative effect on the FM genre.

Increasing tackling and closing down to make it easier?!?! LOL! Add difficulty levels?

Lets destroy the game so people like you no longer needs to troll moaner threads?

Nonsense. Sorry but that post really is utter tripe.

To be fair, the top 5 teams in the Bundesliga last season all conceded between 41-47 goals, so conceding 49 is not totally absurd.

Yes of course - but this is not real life - it's football manager (where many players only concede about .5 of a goal per game); and when one focuses as much on defense as I have then conceding 49 goals becomes a joke. Also, Bayern may have conceded near that amount last season, but also last season's defense was considered catastrophic.

This isn't FM09 though is it? Therefore your going to have to work on your tactics to suit FM2010.

Don't patronize me. I'm well aware that a new version of the game may require alterations to tactics. If however, it's your suggestion that the game has changed so much that what worked perfectly in FM2009 doesn't work at all in FM2010 - well then, that's not a problem which I am responsible for. At any rate, any such suggestion is entirely baseless.

I have played more hours of FM than I could ever tell my girlfriend and this is clearly the most challenging version yet. The extra challenge makes it more rewarding. Starting over and over is not going to help is it? You need to figure out how you want to play, make sure it suits your team and then let them settle in to your style. So what if you don't win the treble in the first season? Wheres the satisfaction in that? Work at it dude, the game is not broken.

I love the fact that it's more challenging, and I'm not trying to win the treble in my first season. All I am asking for is my defense to function like it should without getting sliced open incessantly by through balls or for long shots to stop flying into the top corners all the time. And I have played several seasons in FM (without constantly restarting) and I have let my team settle in - and it's hasn't worked. In fact, the inclusion of Thiago Silva and Fazio to replace Arne Friedrich and Nicola Legrottaglie (as well as replacing Van Bommel with Ballack in DM) only made my defense concede MORE goals. This is with a backline of Demichelis, Fazio, and Thiago Silva backed up by a DM consisting of Ballack and Tymoschuck. These guys aren't so bad as to be leaking goals the way they are. Later on I tried Chiellini, but that didn't make things any better.

Now, if this is indeed what the makers of SI intended then fine, whateve, there was a problem with the making of the game. But if it's some sort of problem with the game then there is absolutely nothing wrong with me mentioning it and asking about it.

I just want to add that in my opinion the game is great in its current state but needs improvements, still in my first season so I probably have not seen the many repetitive annoyances. I have my dad, nephew and brother who play this game and each person has their own opinion on whats good or bad. My dad feels the games great, he doesnt even bother installing any patches. My brother is a perfectionist and already quit the game due to the bugs (mainly all match engine related). My nephew is a little like my dad and he isn't too fussed as long as he has the current patch and updated databases and the EPL loaded.

I get to see the funny side of things as I live with my brother and nephew and I see the varying levels of entertainment and grievances.

I am quite happy how the attacking side of the game works, I think long shots are a little overpowered, but It doesn't really bother me. The only thing that bothers me is the inability of a lot of defenders, who constantly get torn apart. Usually I am on the good end of a decisive and defence splitting through ball but I do think they need to some how stop the amount of one on ones created from deep. Defenders need to hoof it away more often and pass back less and also need to get stuck in. We need A LOT more aggression from defenders and less standing off.

Then I feel this match engine will be fantastic. No need for difficulty levels. I am 4th with Napoli and sometimes feel as though the game is already a tad too easy. (as long as you can keep morale up.) I just try and keep quiet in the match talks and not to offend anyone.

I also think that the initial database and probably the coding of the regens has a little to do with poor defensive displays.

Has anyone noticed that defenders in the database are usually quite poor and struggle to get a 15+ for key stats while most strikers get 15+ finishing and a lot of pace?

Why are attacking players so vastly better than a defensive player. I feel every player should have a strength at the top level. I mean either a defender is quick, has good anticipation, or is a strong brute with good heading but might have poor positioning. I think defending would be improved with a better distribution of defensive attributes at a higher level.

An example would be the Napoli defenders like Contini and Cannavaro. Woeful at marking and poor positioning, they tend to leave their defensive position and are pulled wide, resulting in gaping holes in our centre defence. They also close down way too much, regardless of tactics, resulting in Napoli conceeding a lot of goals. However, they are quite decent when it comes to the physical game and have good heading, tackling and strength.

In FM, I see some defenders of even some of the best teams in top leagues with 12-14 in tackling/heading/marking, ,ight have great positioning, and lacking pace and other physical attributes. I also see many clubs buying these kind of players mainly due to their high mental stats or current ability and then performing poorly. How can central defenders, starting in their national sides and other clubs have stats around 12-14 in nearly every key stat. Most defenders will be highly physical, especially central defenders and not all central defenders are slow, and it seems that its rare to find any quick defenders in the game.

I see it time and time again and has been annoying me a little.

People are conceding less than 30 goals a season even with mediocre defenses like Fulham.

I know this is completely off topic but as a Fulham fan this really needed to be corrected. Fulham in the 08/09 season when they finished seventh had the best defensive record outside the top four. I would hardly call this mediocre.

Also, this season we are one of only nine teams that have a positive goal difference, and unlike teams like Tottenham, Liverpool, Chelsea or Villa we've not had any high scoring games in our favour.

-Mic

I know this is completely off topic but as a Fulham fan this really needed to be corrected. Fulham in the 08/09 season when they finished seventh had the best defensive record outside the top four. I would hardly call this mediocre.

Also, this season we are one of only nine teams that have a positive goal difference, and unlike teams like Tottenham, Liverpool, Chelsea or Villa we've not had any high scoring games in our favour.

-Mic

Mate, don't bother with FestyF, most of his posts are nonesense and never have any information to back his statements. I tend to smirk a lot at the comments he makes, they are just there to wind people up.

I have to admit I was amused by the "start thinking like a real football manager" comment. How many people on here ARE real football managers? I'm guessing the answer is very small if not zero. For a start, almost any 'real' manager would tell you they barely have time to spend with their family (when employed) because they are up at the crack of dawn, spend all day training and then spend their evenings at matches or watching DVDs of matches, and therefore almost certainly don't have time to play FM2010.

I completely agree that unless we as FM players tell SI what seems wrong to us, FM will never improve.

I can honestly say that so far I haven't noticed any defensive problems..I do play with a lower league team so mabye the attackers are not as good to give the defence a lot of problems. But for me personally the game looks pretty well balanced.

Conceded 5 goals in 13 games and scored 22. I am playing a tight 4-3-3 formation with a flat back 4 which is working for me. I also don't change much in the tactics during the game except that I do try to park the bus in the last 10 minutes or so.

I have to admit I was amused by the "start thinking like a real football manager" comment. How many people on here ARE real football managers? I'm guessing the answer is very small if not zero. For a start, almost any 'real' manager would tell you they barely have time to spend with their family (when employed) because they are up at the crack of dawn, spend all day training and then spend their evenings at matches or watching DVDs of matches, and therefore almost certainly don't have time to play FM2010.

I completely agree that unless we as FM players tell SI what seems wrong to us, FM will never improve.

I completely agree with you. Any of us hasn't even grasp how much work involve being a Manager. Like it or not we are Manager's wannabes no matter how good we are in a game.

SI may be having a look into this 'issue'. But there is no way this is even an 'issue' IMO. Many people who are tactically aware have no issues at all with the defending in this game. Look at the FM stories forum, Good players & Team guide forum. People are conceding less than 30 goals a season even with mediocre defenses like Fulham. So it's 100% your tactics.

Few suggestions:

- If you leave the matches on 'key' or 'extended' , most of the time you won't be able to spot the tactical/formation changes by opposition AI managers, and hence you will concede too often.

- Do work on individual players before the match by using 'opposition player instructions.' This would really help you. In real life, managers don't leave people like Ronaldo, Kaka alone and hope their team would take care of the situations. You 'have' to do something about in form/talented opposition players to do well in the matches.

- Start thinking like a real life manager, you will never ever have an issue with this game.

I once again appreciate SI for making such a wonderful sijulation.

It's confirmed as ain issue mate and closing down and tackling will me improved in the next patch

im in two minds whether to apply for my uefa coaching badge now....

I've had problems setting up a defensive tactic that is solid and still scores goals. For me the Tactical Wizard is great at setting up attacking tactics, and decent at defensive tactics. It's poor at balanced tactics that are solid and still create decent scoring chances. It is putting me off the game a bit as it drives me mad playing with a score one more then them mentallity that seems to work best in game at the moment.

Long shots are my achilles heel at the moment, I don't think the opposition are scoring too many but they are definately scoring them from too far out. trying to stop them shooting from 35-40 yards just leads to being torn apart by through balls.

AAAAAAAAArgh!

****ing long shots!!!

:o

3-2 in injury time, i'd just brought on a 5th centre-back for my creative midfielder, 30 yards out and their lone striker rockets it in. What a load of sh*te. The amount of long shots you concede is ridiculous. I think i've conceded 4-5 in the last 2-3 games. I had the striker being tight marked, closed down, hard tackled and showed onto weaker foot... i had 3 CB's and a DM. I was using a containing strategy and rigid philosophy. Man marking on everyone. They were playing 4-1-4-1 and he had no support. How the **** did he get the space and time to stop the ball, turn and shoot?

And i go down 4-2 on penalties.

My 17 Penalty Taking, 12 Composure, 12 Decisions left-winger misses the first penalty. I feel i wasted 10 minutes setting up my takers.

I do feel a bit sick after that. We were robbed blind! That was my chance of silverware down the freaking toilet.

If you don't fix the long shots SI, i'll fix your face.

:o

I think i'm going to lie down. And then i'm going to buy their striker who scored a hat-trick in the match.

If someone could be so kind as to tell me how... I'll upload my own tactics to here because I'm experiencing nothing like the defensive problems I'm seeing all over these forums. I'll have you know that I'm not a tactical guru, I just have an idea of how the game should be played and due to the new tactics creator I was finally able to put my ideas into action with FM10.

I conceded only a few of goals (3 in total) in my first 15 or so matches with Liverpool. We were as defensively solid as I expected us to be. What have I done RIGHT??? :confused:

Seriously, I'm genuinely surprised at how good my Liverpool team are playing.

Here's how my backline plays, hope it helps

Team Instructions:

Basic:

Tackling: Default

Advanced:

Defense Line:[ *] High

Width: [ *] Wide

Rhythm: [ *] High

Time Wasting: [* ] Rarely

Passing Style: Normal

Counter-att : Yes

Off-side : No

Individual Instructions:

DR:

Basic:

Role: Full Back

Task: Auto

Advanced:

Mentality: [ *]Off

Creativity: [ * ] Lot

Pressing: [ * ] All pitch

Tackling: [ *] Heavy

DL:

Basic:

Role: Full Back

Task: Auto

Advanced:

Mentality: [ *]Off

Creativity: [ * ] Lot

Pressing: [ * ] All pitch

Tackling: [ *] Heavy

DC:

Basic:

Role: Central defender

Task: Cover

Advanced:

Mentality: [ * ]Normal

Creativity: [ * ] Few

Pressing: [ * ] Own half

Tackling: [ *] Normal

DC:

Basic:

Role: Central defender

Task: Cover

Advanced:

Mentality: [ * ]Att

Creativity: [ * ] Few

Pressing: [ * ] All pitch

Tackling: [ *] Normal

If you have good players you can afford to play with 2 MC and 1 AMC, otherwise use a DMC to sweep in front of your backline or your defense will face too many challenges and will utterly concede one.

If you look carefully to your individual instructions in basic mode, you will see at the bottom right corner of the screen the current player abilities. Different set of abilities will be highlighted depending on the role you set him above. The roles I gave you match my own players, so what I suggest is, you:

1. Go in the tactics pan

2. Choose one player position (like DL)

3. Put all players you have that could play in this position, and check who’s the best in this position and role. Yeah, it takes time I know, take some screenshots, it helps to compare the results faster

4. If you want to find out which position will best fit your players abilities, do the same as above by changing the position like DL and WBL. If you see that the players that could play in the left defending zone of the pitch are better playing as WBL then set this position in your tactic.

5. Repeat the above for each position, each role and player (2-3 hours) and you will have the best knowledge of what your squad can do and how to play. It will also help you find which position is your weakness, or just tell you that you don’t have any good player at this position.

6. For the other aspects of your tactic; passing style, sort your player by passing and ball control, if you see that all of your players are gods in these abilities then play short and normal to high tempo. Be logical, you can be gods in Coca L2, play short and quick and destroy the opposition and when facing Chelsea you will most probably end crushed because your player were unable to do a proper pass or control because the opposition is pressing you. If you fear such scenario then play quick and direct and hope that your player will bag one on a counter attack.

7. Same for the creative mentality. You will find some tips here http://www.fmscout.com/i-656-General--Hints-and-Tips.html to decide which ability is most useful depending on the position you want to set a player.

And i've conceded another long shot. (My first game after the cup match above.) Their striker picked the ball up about 35-40 yards out and just effortlessly smashed it past my keeper.

It really isn't to do with tactics, but to do with the proficiency of long shots being too high. I know this because i have scored plenty of long shots myself. It takes the ****, a little.

The game is the same game as my cup match, and the scorer was the same guy who scored two long shots in that match. He has 10 Long Shots.