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FM2020 - The Unofficially Official Training and Mentoring Guide

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4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

'Light' can still have an influence, it's just lighter. In practice, this means you're less likely to know who is going to influence who. Whereas in a group with a 'Signifciant' influencer, you can be more confident.

There is a 'None', which does what it says on the tin and is possibly what you're thinking 'Light' does.

Yeah I’ve never seen ‘None’ so that is where the confusion comes from. Thanks! 

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On 06/04/2020 at 20:51, roggiotis said:

The same question .

Fickle has to do with loyalty which as far as I understand he will look for transfer in the future.

Is it so important ?

 I must tutor him ? And if yes with who?

 

This fickle personality is very dangerous, even more dangerous if he is one of your best player.

In my Frosinone save, I have a  fickle personality player and he is one of the team leader. Everything seems so fine, as sometimes fickle have better attribute too. Until the time his contract near expiring,he ask to extend his contract and complaint as it can show in dynamic as he is unhappy.

I try to give him contract, but he asking so much clause (% raise), min fee. Because he is one player that I want to keep, I refuse all the min fee and dont give % raise to but give him more $$ in salary and apperance fee + goal bonus. And suddenly he reject the contract, and make all the squad angry, all player from excellent morale or atleast  very good become abysmal. The dressing room atmosphere from around 70% green become more than 50% red

To improve this, I promise to give him another contract. After weeks he always rejecting my contract offer. He finally open with negotiation and looking for amount that cannot afford by club. And finally the only way for me is to sell him.

Some players disappointed when I sell him but I promise to bring replacement and luckily I get Perfectionist player to fill his boot

 

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Sold any player with Fickle personality; plus staff with Fickle personality.

 

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On 17/04/2020 at 18:15, Weston said:

Right, and that makes sense. But in 3 seasons now one determination point was lost and not one trait was picked up until I created this mentoring group in season 4.

Can you please help me understand why in this mentoring group I have three mentors with 18, 16, and 16 determination, and the three mentees have determinations of 16 dropping to 14, 14 dropping to 13, and 13? Why are they decreasing? Surely it's not the 13 determination mentee dragging the other two down that much while the others watch on?

image.png.e70eb4e90188ce3cdef6666042447b5d.png

 

Struggling to see that screenshot I'm afraid. Ideally, would need a bit more to go on too. If you believe you've got something amiss, post up in our bugs area and upload the save  :thup:

 

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On 17/04/2020 at 21:09, Jorge666 said:

Tell me, I always set up my coaches before anything, if I'm a well known club I settle for nothing less than 4* coaches all on light workload, all individual schemes are whatever is their natural (fully green) positional training, individual focus on whatever is lacking in technical or physical relevant to the position or weakness the player has and generally double intensity unless they're playing a lot of games, I started with 1860 munchen recently, managed between 3.5-4* for all coaches, individual as above method yet I'm getting players stats declining alarmingly, even when they're playing well on the pitch and I only have one match a week, could leaving it on double intensity for just a moment too long cause it to decide you get orange downward arrows on about 8 different attributes and sometimes even reducing by a full point on several attributes, it's beyond ridiculous, I've read other posts saying "CA" is rebalancing etc or "attributes have increased so some must fall to compensate for other ones increasing" but this is happening to young players in good for with good coaches in good condition, there is currently about 6 on my squad this is happening to, none of which have had any stats go up for them to have to rebalance, my team has good training facilities for the standard of league and I leave team training to the assistant manager, which is relevant to my tactics and generally 2 sessions a day... What is going on? It's feeling pointless to even play this latest version when you can't develop players without random destruction of their stats for seemingly no reason... Rant over, am I missing something or what? 

Over how long a period is this?

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13 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Struggling to see that screenshot I'm afraid. Ideally, would need a bit more to go on too. If you believe you've got something amiss, post up in our bugs area and upload the save  :thup:

 

At what point should the save be? Not sure on the dates of these occurrences now, so could upload one way before, or now.

It feels like a bug to me, but it's entirely possible I'm just not understanding something. Are there any factors other than squad hierarchy, personality, and attributes that could be affecting these results? Some hidden attributes, I suppose?

 

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33 minutes ago, Weston said:

At what point should the save be? Not sure on the dates of these occurrences now, so could upload one way before, or now.

It feels like a bug to me, but it's entirely possible I'm just not understanding something. Are there any factors other than squad hierarchy, personality, and attributes that could be affecting these results? Some hidden attributes, I suppose?

Ideally, just before you notice any changes (that reproduce when you save and reload that point). Failing that, a save from shortly before or after should still provide some information.

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2 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Ideally, just before you notice any changes (that reproduce when you save and reload that point). Failing that, a save from shortly before or after should still provide some information.

Posted here:thup:

Now another young player not in the mentoring group has now lost 1 entire point of determination for no discernible reason as well. I've never seen this happen before. Now we're the 3rd most determined squad and everything seems fine... in a general sense, what could be causing this?

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21 hours ago, Weston said:

Posted here:thup:

Now another young player not in the mentoring group has now lost 1 entire point of determination for no discernible reason as well. I've never seen this happen before. Now we're the 3rd most determined squad and everything seems fine... in a general sense, what could be causing this?

That final young player sounds like they took after another player in the squad with lower Determination.

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3 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

That final young player sounds like they took after another player in the squad with lower Determination.

But why would a young player in a mentoring group with more determined players lose two points? And why would this new player I just signed lose determination within a few months just because someone else happens to have lower determination, despite joining such a determined squad overall? Why do I never get messages indicating a player has gained determination?

I've disbanded the mentoring group entirely. Not really sure what to do at this point.

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1 minute ago, Weston said:

But why would a young player in a mentoring group with more determined players lose two points? And why would this new player I just signed lose determination within a few months just because someone else happens to have lower determination, despite joining such a determined squad overall? Why do I never get messages indicating a player has gained determination?

I've disbanded the mentoring group entirely. Not really sure what to do at this point.

Mentoring is just a steer on personality development. It sounds like you have an extremely influential but lower (relatively) determined player in your squad that is influencing the others. Mentoring helps to bias the players towards those that you want them to learn from, but it does not guarantee anything, especially if the mentoring group (and players within it) are less influential than this rogue undetermined soul. Players learn from those around them, mentoring is a tool to help nudge them in the direction you deem best, but ultimately they'll be influenced by those they look up to or match well with.

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28 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Mentoring is just a steer on personality development. It sounds like you have an extremely influential but lower (relatively) determined player in your squad that is influencing the others. Mentoring helps to bias the players towards those that you want them to learn from, but it does not guarantee anything, especially if the mentoring group (and players within it) are less influential than this rogue undetermined soul. Players learn from those around them, mentoring is a tool to help nudge them in the direction you deem best, but ultimately they'll be influenced by those they look up to or match well with.

The team leaders are 15, 15, and 14. A 16 dropped to 14 and a 14 dropped to 13. Would a player drop below the team leaders' levels if the team leaders were influencing them badly somehow?

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@Seb Wassell Created a new group. Any thoughts on this? The "Significant" and "Average" players all have higher determination than the "Light" players, so I'm hoping they will help increase determination. They all also have arguably better (?) personalities, which should help with... something?

image.thumb.png.b2dd7628fa4a36c6fda41224f7c3706b.png

I'm told that player traits will only transfer to other players the traits are suitable for, but this seems only based on position, not on role or attributes, correct? So should I be concerned about this? I guess in theory I should divide this into smaller groups based on position, but I don't really have enough players it makes sense to work with to do this.

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6 hours ago, Weston said:

@Seb Wassell Created a new group. Any thoughts on this? The "Significant" and "Average" players all have higher determination than the "Light" players, so I'm hoping they will help increase determination. They all also have arguably better (?) personalities, which should help with... something?

image.thumb.png.b2dd7628fa4a36c6fda41224f7c3706b.png

I'm told that player traits will only transfer to other players the traits are suitable for, but this seems only based on position, not on role or attributes, correct? So should I be concerned about this? I guess in theory I should divide this into smaller groups based on position, but I don't really have enough players it makes sense to work with to do this.

Split the group.

1 team leader for each.

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Posted (edited)

As I can see, you have 3 team leader in alessandro Plizzari, Filippo Melegoni (Team Leader) and Nicolas Nkolou (Highly Influential)

1st group : Plizzari - Resolute (S)
Leo Ostigard - Ambitious (A)
Luca Ranieri - Fairly Determined (L)
Matteo Mertens - Fairly Ambitious (L)

2nd group : Fillipo Melegoni - Resolute (S)
Carlos Boza - Balanced (L)
Ryan Gravenberch - Balanced (L)
Kevin Mier - Balance (L)

3rd group : Nicolas Nkoulou - Resolute (A)
Ivan Sunjic - Resolute (A)
Steven Sessegnon - Faily professional (L)

Or you can change all the group member of group 2 and 3 

That is my groups looks like, please note this is just an example.  It will be better if the group and member are the same categorical position. I usually put this category position :

GK = Goal Keeper

CD = Central Defender

SD = Side Defender

CM = Central Midfielder

SM = Side Midfielder

AT  = AMC and Striker

Edited by saintrainhard

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8 hours ago, saintrainhard said:

As I can see, you have 3 team leader in alessandro Plizzari, Filippo Melegoni (Team Leader) and Nicolas Nkolou (Highly Influential)

1st group : Plizzari - Resolute (S)
Leo Ostigard - Ambitious (A)
Luca Ranieri - Fairly Determined (L)
Matteo Mertens - Fairly Ambitious (L)

2nd group : Fillipo Melegoni - Resolute (S)
Carlos Boza - Balanced (L)
Ryan Gravenberch - Balanced (L)
Kevin Mier - Balance (L)

3rd group : Nicolas Nkoulou - Resolute (A)
Ivan Sunjic - Resolute (A)
Steven Sessegnon - Faily professional (L)

Or you can change all the group member of group 2 and 3 

That is my groups looks like, please note this is just an example.  It will be better if the group and member are the same categorical position. I usually put this category position :

GK = Goal Keeper

CD = Central Defender

SD = Side Defender

CM = Central Midfielder

SM = Side Midfielder

AT  = AMC and Striker

In what way is it better if they're in the same categorical position? My inclination is to put them with players that are NOT in their position so that only determination/personality is influenced, not traits, which I don't really want changed at random like this.

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@saintrainhard @Weston Personally, as has been said, I go for smaller mentoring groups of 3-4 players max. I used to match positions, but now I don't. As said above ^^ matching positions increase the likelihood of potentially unwanted traits being added on, but I pay much more attention to social groups; If my Team Leaders are spread among the groups, I match mentors and mentees in the same groups, whereas if my Team Leaders are all in one group I might try to make sure the mentees are from similar groups, figuring if the TL can affect one, he can affect all of them. As is said in the guide, you also have to take into account age (I think it helps if the mentor has a decent age gap to the mentees) and first team appearances. 

I'm far from infallible, but I've shared my approach in my saves:

  • With Lyon here (not posted, but so far two successes).
  • With Roma herehere, and here.
  • With Ajax here and here.

Just some food for thought :) 

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On 20/04/2020 at 01:47, Seb Wassell said:

Over how long a period is this?

Well usually it happens then the orange downward arrows last a month I think, but as I say it can take 2 seasons to get an attribute to go up and you lose it inexplicably, I only play one game a week at 1860 munchen a few weeks I have multiple games in a week if I make I through in the cup etc and a couple of weeks they have two league games but generally one a week, surely they're not overworked? Any advice on intensity? What intensity at what % fitness if that's what the problem is? I could perhaps screen shot when I turn the desktop on tomorrow and show you my training/coaches etc to see what I'm doing wrong, I'd understand if it's a new game dynic that reflects performance in matches and my players were playing poorly and didn't deserve the stats they displayed but as I say they're all playing well and I don't play players under 96% fit unless it's a massive injury crisis 

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18 hours ago, Weston said:

@Seb Wassell Created a new group. Any thoughts on this? The "Significant" and "Average" players all have higher determination than the "Light" players, so I'm hoping they will help increase determination. They all also have arguably better (?) personalities, which should help with... something?

image.thumb.png.b2dd7628fa4a36c6fda41224f7c3706b.png

I'm told that player traits will only transfer to other players the traits are suitable for, but this seems only based on position, not on role or attributes, correct? So should I be concerned about this? I guess in theory I should divide this into smaller groups based on position, but I don't really have enough players it makes sense to work with to do this.

Think others have beaten me to this!

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19 hours ago, Weston said:

The team leaders are 15, 15, and 14. A 16 dropped to 14 and a 14 dropped to 13. Would a player drop below the team leaders' levels if the team leaders were influencing them badly somehow?

That 14 is certainly a candidate for the 16 > 14. In regards to the 13, no, but it does not have to be a Team Leader.

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58 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

@saintrainhard @Weston Personally, as has been said, I go for smaller mentoring groups of 3-4 players max. I used to match positions, but now I don't. As said above ^^ matching positions increase the likelihood of potentially unwanted traits being added on, but I pay much more attention to social groups; If my Team Leaders are spread among the groups, I match mentors and mentees in the same groups, whereas if my Team Leaders are all in one group I might try to make sure the mentees are from similar groups, figuring if the TL can affect one, he can affect all of them. As is said in the guide, you also have to take into account age (I think it helps if the mentor has a decent age gap to the mentees) and first team appearances. 

I'm far from infallible, but I've shared my approach in my saves:

  • With Lyon here (not posted, but so far two successes).
  • With Roma herehere, and here.
  • With Ajax here and here.

Just some food for thought :) 

Interesting, thank you for this.

One last question for you and @Seb Wassell / @Cadoni / @saintrainhard if you're not all tired of me yet ;)

It's my understanding that traits will not carry over from players in different positions. But what if the traits could still technically apply? Say for example I have a RB with "knock ball past opponent" mentoring a CF. The conventional wisdom seems to be there will be no trait transfer across positions, but you could realistically train a CF to do this, as opposed to say if the RB had "stay back at all times."

The issue is my CF is slow, so I don't want him to get this trait. Should I be concerned?

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22 minutes ago, Weston said:

Interesting, thank you for this.

One last question for you and @Seb Wassell / @Cadoni / @saintrainhard if you're not all tired of me yet ;)

It's my understanding that traits will not carry over from players in different positions. But what if the traits could still technically apply? Say for example I have a RB with "knock ball past opponent" mentoring a CF. The conventional wisdom seems to be there will be no trait transfer across positions, but you could realistically train a CF to do this, as opposed to say if the RB had "stay back at all times."

The issue is my CF is slow, so I don't want him to get this trait. Should I be concerned?

Traits are learned by players with suitable positions and attributes, they are more easily learned the more suitable these things are. Players in different positions can transfer traits, provided they are appropriate.

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1 hour ago, Seb Wassell said:

Traits are learned by players with suitable positions and attributes, they are more easily learned the more suitable these things are. Players in different positions can transfer traits, provided they are appropriate.

I don't think it would be appropriate for the RB to pass on "knocks ball past opponent" to the CF with pace of 13, but that same RB picked up the trait from someone else despite also having a pace of 13, and the RB wasn't even in the mentoring group at all, he just got it randomly. So that leads me to believe the chance of him passing it on now to someone equally as unsuited to it is not that unlikely...

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10 minutes ago, Weston said:

I don't think it would be appropriate for the RB to pass on "knocks ball past opponent" to the CF with pace of 13, but that same RB picked up the trait from someone else despite also having a pace of 13, and the RB wasn't even in the mentoring group at all, he just got it randomly. So that leads me to believe the chance of him passing it on now to someone equally as unsuited to it is not that unlikely...

Whilst Acceleration comes into it, Knocks Ball Past Opponent is more to do with Dribbling; whether they are capable of dribbling around an opponent or need to knock it past them instead. You get some insight into what goes into the required items for a trait when asking a coach to take up the training with a player.

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1 minute ago, Seb Wassell said:

Whilst Acceleration comes into it, Knocks Ball Past Opponent is more to do with Dribbling; whether they are capable of dribbling around an opponent or need to knock it past them instead. You get some insight into what goes into the required items for a trait when asking a coach to take up the training with a player.

Hm, so if the CF has 11 dribbling and 13 pace, he's not gonna be great at knocking the ball past opponents, but the game may see his dribbling as a liability and thing to transfer the trait to him as the lesser of two evils, so to speak?

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9 minutes ago, Weston said:

Hm, so if the CF has 11 dribbling and 13 pace, he's not gonna be great at knocking the ball past opponents, but the game may see his dribbling as a liability and thing to transfer the trait to him as the lesser of two evils, so to speak?

The attributes and position checks are more for if it is valid rather than if it is desirable. The "game"/mentoring system isn't doing this because it is necessarily a good idea, it's happening because two players that match well are spending time together and one is picking up something from the other one. The checks are there to make sure it is something valid, not necessarily desirable. Desirable is for you and your coaches to decide.

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29 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

The attributes and position checks are more for if it is valid rather than if it is desirable. The "game"/mentoring system isn't doing this because it is necessarily a good idea, it's happening because two players that match well are spending time together and one is picking up something from the other one. The checks are there to make sure it is something valid, not necessarily desirable. Desirable is for you and your coaches to decide.

Right, I understand that distinction between valid and desirable, just trying to wrap my head around what constitutes valid. Thank you for your guidance!

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Just happened again, this is what's really weird to me. I never had a player pick up a trait from another player in 3.5 seasons of playing. Then I created mentoring groups, and players not in the mentoring groups started picking up random traits from unknown sources. This guy is not in a group. Where did he get it from?

image.thumb.png.e212f9fb1f6d2e74753146bd10b15c62.png

I understand that players don't need to be in mentoring groups to pick up traits from teammates, but it's strange that it never happened until I created mentoring groups that they're not in...

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On 18/04/2020 at 14:57, saintrainhard said:

This fickle personality is very dangerous, even more dangerous if he is one of your best player.

In my Frosinone save, I have a  fickle personality player and he is one of the team leader. Everything seems so fine, as sometimes fickle have better attribute too. Until the time his contract near expiring,he ask to extend his contract and complaint as it can show in dynamic as he is unhappy.

I try to give him contract, but he asking so much clause (% raise), min fee. Because he is one player that I want to keep, I refuse all the min fee and dont give % raise to but give him more $$ in salary and apperance fee + goal bonus. And suddenly he reject the contract, and make all the squad angry, all player from excellent morale or atleast  very good become abysmal. The dressing room atmosphere from around 70% green become more than 50% red

To improve this, I promise to give him another contract. After weeks he always rejecting my contract offer. He finally open with negotiation and looking for amount that cannot afford by club. And finally the only way for me is to sell him.

Some players disappointed when I sell him but I promise to bring replacement and luckily I get Perfectionist player to fill his boot

 

Interesting , thanx for the response ,

what was his performance in games ? determination ?

if you exclude the contract case would you tutor him ?

 

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So this player has 18 for bravery, he gets injured and it suddenly drops to 15, why so much loss? I'm afraid he wont have it at 18 again. 

mahon1.thumb.jpg.ec2ffa7860b181001c62a61f9b7b43b5.jpg

injured.thumb.jpg.ac0e2462abb9b61b5d57f6355fa1be0c.jpg

mahon2.thumb.jpg.5a78c31b91fe9b5980338c5324534c00.jpg

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@mikcheck pretty obvious isn’t it? Injuries make you more wary of your own mortality, especially something like a leg break. You quite often see players, even top ones, struggle for up to a year after a big injury before regaining top form (or not, if you compare Luke Shaw pre- and post- injury he’s arguably a good player again but with different qualities). 

He should recover his Bravery through the ‘General Rehab’ training focus. Put him on it as soon as he starts the rehabilitation phase, then re-add it once he resumes full training. 

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1 minute ago, zlatanera said:

He should recover his Bravery through the ‘General Rehab’ training focus. Put him on it as soon as he starts the rehabilitation phase, then re-add it once he resumes full training. 

Is there conventional wisdom on things like this that we should actively do following a major injury? I thought the rehab was part of the automatic process when they re-enter training, should we be manually adding more?

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1 hour ago, Weston said:

Is there conventional wisdom on things like this that we should actively do following a major injury? I thought the rehab was part of the automatic process when they re-enter training, should we be manually adding more?

I don’t know if it’s changed for FM20, but on FM19 when controlling individual training once a player has a lighter coloured ‘inj’ icon i.e. is in the rehab phase, there are multiplied individual training rehab options you can use - I always go for General Rehab but if there was a major loss in Agility for example by you can focus on that. 

For long-term injuries such as the broken leg seen in the post I replied to, even once they finish the rehab phase you can usually add the individual training session again (it’s removed once you get the “x has returned to full training” notification) as - much like in real life - even when a player is back, they might not ‘be back’ if you get what I mean.

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41 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

I don’t know if it’s changed for FM20, but on FM19 when controlling individual training once a player has a lighter coloured ‘inj’ icon i.e. is in the rehab phase, there are multiplied individual training rehab options you can use - I always go for General Rehab but if there was a major loss in Agility for example by you can focus on that. 

For long-term injuries such as the broken leg seen in the post I replied to, even once they finish the rehab phase you can usually add the individual training session again (it’s removed once you get the “x has returned to full training” notification) as - much like in real life - even when a player is back, they might not ‘be back’ if you get what I mean.

Right, that makes sense. I have my Assistant handle training, to get a base that I then add to and/or alter from time to time, but since I don't handle it all individually I was wondering if I missed something major. I'll look into adding more in the future if appropriate.

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I still can't for the life of me figure out why players with very high determination are losing it, often 18>17, for no discernible reason. We're the most determined squad in the league on average, even after these losses, and these two players are in no mentoring groups. What is the phantom force in the squad that is tearing them apart? It just doesn't make sense, this has never happened to me before. If the average is such a strong force shouldn't the least determined in the squad be gaining whole points to balance things out..?

image.thumb.png.ab4cfc3c1104adecd615c4f4f57177aa.png

image.thumb.png.c993b4b467909c1e46d10e39e615751f.png

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Weston said:

I still can't for the life of me figure out why players with very high determination are losing it, often 18>17, for no discernible reason.

I think you may be overthinking it. We'll never know the exact math behind the game, FM is never going to be as clear cut as 1+1=2. There's always multiple factors that can affect things.

I don't think a determination drop of 1 in young players is a big deal, it's one of the attributes that can fluctuate through player's career. Sometimes you have an idea why, other times your youngster just finds Jesus and it skyrockets over night for no apparent reason.

JfuV6ut.png

I tend to follow a few general points:

  • Have coaching staff with good personalities and determination
  • Have players with good personalities and determination*
  • Mentor young players without positive personalities or determination
  • When welcoming players to club, make sure the welcoming player has positive personality and determination (mini-mentoring session)
  • Praise/criticize young players often

*Personality is one of the main things I look for when recruiting players or deciding who to sign in a youth intake (I'll keep positive personalities around for a few years, even if they have no first team potential).

Apart from that I don't really think about it too much. As long as you have a good environment going and there's plenty of positive personalities that can rub off on players, you should be good in the long term.

Edited by Zemahh

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Posted (edited)

I Follow the first four of @Zemahhs points. Works quite well, but as he Said. You must have patience for maybe 2-3 years before you know where this is going. Seems legit though, changeing the culture of a club takes time. Look at Klopp and Liverpool.

Edited by Djuicer

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zemahh said:

I think you may be overthinking it. We'll never know the exact math behind the game, FM is never going to be as clear cut as 1+1=2. There's always multiple factors that can affect things.

I don't think a determination drop of 1 in young players is a big deal, it's one of the attributes that can fluctuate through player's career. Sometimes you have an idea why, other times your youngster just finds Jesus and it skyrockets over night for no apparent reason.

JfuV6ut.png

I tend to follow a few general points:

  • Have coaching staff with good personalities and determination
  • Have players with good personalities and determination*
  • Mentor young players without positive personalities or determination
  • When welcoming players to club, make sure the welcoming player has positive personality and determination (mini-mentoring session)
  • Praise/criticize young players often

*Personality is one of the main things I look for when recruiting players or deciding who to sign in a youth intake (I'll keep positive personalities around for a few years, even if they have no first team potential).

Apart from that I don't really think about it too much. As long as you have a good environment going and there's plenty of positive personalities that can rub off on players, you should be good in the long term.

 

1 hour ago, Djuicer said:

I Follow the first four of @Zemahhs points. Works quite well, but as he Said. You must have patience for maybe 2-3 years before you know where this is going. Seems legit though, changeing the culture of a club takes time. Look at Klopp and Liverpool.

 

This all makes sense, but I'm not changing a club's culture so much as adding to it. What's strange is this just started happening in the last season or two out of 5, which happens to coincide around when I began creating mentoring groups for the first time. That being said, I also have better players now, so now maybe there's just more determination to lose? If that's the case, it still seems strange that having more determination would increase the chances of losing it instead of lowering it, though.

As for keeping youth intake with good personalities, the two most common types are Fairly Professional (which my HOYD has) and Unambitious (which I have). I assume the Unambitious ones are getting it from me, and I hate that the game has that personality for me, which I don't understand or know how to change besides editing my own attributes which I wouldn't want to do.

Edited by Weston

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Also worth noting that the player above who lost determination is noted as "the welcoming period has had a positive effect," so it can't have been that either, then..?

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Apologies if ive missed this but if I want my Ass Man to take training and I will do the individual training - what attributes is desirable for an Ass Man to take training ?

I know you said earlier in thread ideally to have similar tactical preferred formation etc as you do, but what else attribute wise to look for to make him effective in setting training ?

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5 hours ago, Bcfclee27 said:

Apologies if ive missed this but if I want my Ass Man to take training and I will do the individual training - what attributes is desirable for an Ass Man to take training ?

I know you said earlier in thread ideally to have similar tactical preferred formation etc as you do, but what else attribute wise to look for to make him effective in setting training ?

1. Personality 
2. Man Management
3. Level of Displine
4. Determination
5. Motivating
6. Attacking, Defending, Mental, Technical, Tactical
7. Working with Youngsters

Avoid personalities like: Casual, Easily discouraged, Fickle, Low determination, Low self belief, Mercenary, Slack, Spineless, Temperamental, Unambitious, Unsporting.

====

 

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20 hours ago, Cadoni said:

1. Personality 
2. Man Management
3. Level of Displine
4. Determination
5. Motivating
6. Attacking, Defending, Mental, Technical, Tactical
7. Working with Youngsters

Avoid personalities like: Casual, Easily discouraged, Fickle, Low determination, Low self belief, Mercenary, Slack, Spineless, Temperamental, Unambitious, Unsporting.

====

thanks mate

 

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Posted (edited)
On 02/05/2020 at 19:47, Weston said:

Also worth noting that the player above who lost determination is noted as "the welcoming period has had a positive effect," so it can't have been that either, then..?

Oh. What is the personality and determination of the player responsible for the welcoming? IIRC it will be like a short and intense mentoring period (no traits, just personality)

 

edit: I think the game see it as a good welcoming if the player(s) gets closer personality wise. Rather than if the personality in it self is preferable.

Edited by Djuicer

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5 hours ago, Djuicer said:

Oh. What is the personality and determination of the player responsible for the welcoming? IIRC it will be like a short and intense mentoring period (no traits, just personality)

 

edit: I think the game see it as a good welcoming if the player(s) gets closer personality wise. Rather than if the personality in it self is preferable.

 

On 02/05/2020 at 01:49, Weston said:

I still can't for the life of me figure out why players with very high determination are losing it, often 18>17, for no discernible reason. We're the most determined squad in the league on average, even after these losses, and these two players are in no mentoring groups. What is the phantom force in the squad that is tearing them apart? It just doesn't make sense, this has never happened to me before. If the average is such a strong force shouldn't the least determined in the squad be gaining whole points to balance things out..?

image.thumb.png.ab4cfc3c1104adecd615c4f4f57177aa.png

image.thumb.png.c993b4b467909c1e46d10e39e615751f.png

 

These are the two. Ribiero Cabo has since gone down one more determination point for no discernible reason. We have the most determined squad in the league despite our players losing it entire points at a time even if they're not in mentoring groups at all. He isn't in one, for example, because he's not influential enough to pass on his determination but his determination isn't low enough to be improved by someone more influential either.

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On 02/05/2020 at 18:47, Weston said:

Also worth noting that the player above who lost determination is noted as "the welcoming period has had a positive effect," so it can't have been that either, then..?

You're confusing what you see as positive with what your staff see as positive. "...positive effect" means the player has had a personality shift towards the more desirable end of the spectrum. His Determination could have dropped but other (hidden attributes) risen in order to achieve this.

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On 05/05/2020 at 12:13, Cadoni said:

1. Personality 
2. Man Management
3. Level of Displine
4. Determination
5. Motivating
6. Attacking, Defending, Mental, Technical, Tactical
7. Working with Youngsters

Avoid personalities like: Casual, Easily discouraged, Fickle, Low determination, Low self belief, Mercenary, Slack, Spineless, Temperamental, Unambitious, Unsporting.

====

 

Some of these are important for the Assistant from a coaching point of view but not from a "running training" point of view.

On 05/05/2020 at 07:05, Bcfclee27 said:

Apologies if ive missed this but if I want my Ass Man to take training and I will do the individual training - what attributes is desirable for an Ass Man to take training ?

I know you said earlier in thread ideally to have similar tactical preferred formation etc as you do, but what else attribute wise to look for to make him effective in setting training ?

Running training, i.e. what schedules they select, is based on style, preferences, time of season and your own tactics.

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On 30/04/2020 at 16:03, mikcheck said:

So this player has 18 for bravery, he gets injured and it suddenly drops to 15, why so much loss? I'm afraid he wont have it at 18 again. 

mahon1.thumb.jpg.ec2ffa7860b181001c62a61f9b7b43b5.jpg

injured.thumb.jpg.ac0e2462abb9b61b5d57f6355fa1be0c.jpg

mahon2.thumb.jpg.5a78c31b91fe9b5980338c5324534c00.jpg

 

On 30/04/2020 at 16:39, zlatanera said:

@mikcheck pretty obvious isn’t it? Injuries make you more wary of your own mortality, especially something like a leg break. You quite often see players, even top ones, struggle for up to a year after a big injury before regaining top form (or not, if you compare Luke Shaw pre- and post- injury he’s arguably a good player again but with different qualities). 

He should recover his Bravery through the ‘General Rehab’ training focus. Put him on it as soon as he starts the rehabilitation phase, then re-add it once he resumes full training. 

 

On 30/04/2020 at 16:41, Weston said:

Is there conventional wisdom on things like this that we should actively do following a major injury? I thought the rehab was part of the automatic process when they re-enter training, should we be manually adding more?

 

On 30/04/2020 at 18:08, zlatanera said:

I don’t know if it’s changed for FM20, but on FM19 when controlling individual training once a player has a lighter coloured ‘inj’ icon i.e. is in the rehab phase, there are multiplied individual training rehab options you can use - I always go for General Rehab but if there was a major loss in Agility for example by you can focus on that. 

For long-term injuries such as the broken leg seen in the post I replied to, even once they finish the rehab phase you can usually add the individual training session again (it’s removed once you get the “x has returned to full training” notification) as - much like in real life - even when a player is back, they might not ‘be back’ if you get what I mean.

As @zlatanera has mentioned, Bravery can drop following a major injury, reflecting the fact that experiencing something like that often impacts your willingness to "get stuck in" to the same level as before. Bravery can be regained naturally (no extra training required) in the time after injury recovery.

The rehab options are only available during and just after the "rehabilitation" (orange INJ icon) phase of injury. 'General Rehab' is the default. These are powerful individual training focuses that place extra and accelerated focus on attributes that may have been damaged by the injury. They encourage rapid growth in these areas, allowing a player to partially or fully regain lost attributes. This only applies to attributes that dropped as a result of the injury, you cannot exploit them for "new" gains, and are not guaranteed to fully return a player to their pre-injury levels. As with all training, it will be more effective for younger, more willing players, that have access to better resources. More severe injuries = more time for this rehab, but similarly the more time that will be needed to possibly regain attributes.

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2 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

You're confusing what you see as positive with what your staff see as positive. "...positive effect" means the player has had a personality shift towards the more desirable end of the spectrum. His Determination could have dropped but other (hidden attributes) risen in order to achieve this.

So this is just a case of CA points being shuffled around, then?

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3 hours ago, Weston said:

 

 

These are the two. Ribiero Cabo has since gone down one more determination point for no discernible reason. We have the most determined squad in the league despite our players losing it entire points at a time even if they're not in mentoring groups at all. He isn't in one, for example, because he's not influential enough to pass on his determination but his determination isn't low enough to be improved by someone more influential either.

How is your backroom team? maybe they are affecting this?

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3 hours ago, Weston said:

So this is just a case of CA points being shuffled around, then?

Personality attributes do not contribute to CA

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