Target man. How to use it.

[looping]

A lot of things are written in this fórums, but I've never seen a complete and informative thread about how to properly use a TM. This is the purpose of this thread.

To be more specific, I want to use the TM (s) role. I know you can use a TM in other roles (DLF or DF) but it's not the same, because the hoof the ball effect is lost (correct me if I'm wrong). 

So, the first question is: can I use the TM role in my base tactic or due to its specific mechanism and hoof the ball effect the tactic becomes too predictable, passing too direct, among other potential issues? Can my base tactic have a TM role without the need of tweaking it? I specifically want to channel my play through a TM. The only reason is this is how I want my team to play.

Before I start this work (which I suspect is going to be hard), I want to know is it's realistically posible (in FM) to use the TM in the long term, building my squad arround this idea without masking it with other roles. I don't want a TM in disguise, I really want the hoof the ball effect and use it properly.

[Dr. Hook]

The biggest key to successfully using a targetman based system over time is the quality of the targetman. You definitely need good passers to supply good balls, but he has to be a man that can get the job done. I have used a TM/S often in the past and the player needs to be strong, good in the air, strong off the ball to make space for himself. In the TM/S role it is also important to have a decent if not good passer as he will lay off a lot of balls to runners or wide areas (depending on how your attack is set up). Your attack will be fairly predictable as players will look first to your targetman when considering options, and depending on how you have set up your support, can lead to some very direct play. If you don't want too much directness, you need to make sure you have a playmaker or (or two) closer to the targetman that can feed him with shorter balls and also help work the ball up the field a bit more methodically. Even with that though, you should expect to see lots of balls heading to your TM. But this is fine, because you have a great TM, and while it is predictable, you are daring the opposition to stop him, and if he's really good, it won't always be possible.

The biggest downside of the TM to me is that it messes with your GK distribution- expect to see a lot of kicks aimed to the TM. It always frustrated me about that in the past. I haven't used a TM in FM17 to know if this is still a problem.

Anyway, that is my experience with it, but I say go for it as a style, it is valid way to play and can work quite well for you.

[Atarin]

I used to get so frustrated about this. I was desperate to use a TM. The truth is that the TM as FM envisions it is a very specific type of player where as in real life the term Target Man gets attached to any big strong player that can hold the ball up.

The best way to think of a TM in football manager is as your PRIMARY outlet. When the keeper has the ball he looks for the TM, when your defenders have the ball they look for the TM, when your wingers have the ball they look for the TM. As a result using a TM often overrides all other instructions. Everyone will look for the TM before considering anything else. This, naturally, results in lots of aimless long balls. So, in Football Manager you can see that the TM really narrows your tactical possibilities.

That isn't what is meant by a target man in real life. Most of the time we don't mean a brainless meathead who's only job is to stand there and let the ball ping off his head. We mean someone who plays with his back to goal or on the half turn. They come short to receive passes and they are generally strong enough to hold onto the ball for longer periods to enable players to get up around them.

What does this mean in terms of football manager then? Well, In my opinion what most people mean by target man is, in football manager, actually a DLF(s). You can still use someone who's big, strong with TM PPMS like players with back to goal and that will still make them suitable for the odd long ball. I've found if your target man is really limited then setting them as a DF will sort that out because then they basically come short for the ball and lay it off really simple to the nearest player before moving ahead of play again which in reality can mean taking a pass from central midfield, laying it off to a winger before turning and heading for the box ready to head in a cross.

Football Manager's TM is a pretty extreme role.

Additional: I'm aware there are some FM geniuses who know how to game the ME and get the TM working for them in more subtle ways but for most of us that's not an option.

[ajsr1982]

I've never really managed to get a TM-based system to work, but I'll share my observations.

As others have said, using the TM role means you're likely to see a lot of long balls forward. The key things for me are (a) the supply, (b) the support, and (c) the defensive shape.

I think (a) has been covered so I won't go into it. I think the support is important. You need good runners off the ball to make this work and your TM needs to be good enough to hold the ball up and find his team mates with a pass.

The result of all that is a low-success path to goal that's going to turn the ball over a lot. So, you can expect to have low possession and you need to have a really solid defensive base to avoid being exposed in transition and absorb pressure.

I just think that if you're going to commit to the system, you *REALLY* need to commit to it. If you have accept it's a low-success system, you have to create a high frequency of attacks in order to get the breakthrough.

 

[moolochicken]

I managed to get target man(s) working, at least to a level of satisfaction, in fm 17

I tried career with Ibrahimovich-Man Utd as well as fantasy draft with Lewandoeski etc. Draft usually gives very small gaps between different teams, so i think its more tacticaly relevant to me. I use 433 narrow in all TM(s) situation with 2 advance forward helping him.

I will never consider i am at disadvantage (or "too direct" if thats what you are thinking) if i have a good target man, becuase after all if my target man is winning header most of the time, then i would want him to play header as much as possible.Theoratically there is no too much hoofing of the ball if he wins the header every time.

One very important strength of long ball is that, when your target man always win the air battle, the transition phase is nearly unstopable. As long as the header from the target man reach the receiver, the ball is uaually in dangerous position (partly becuase I gave the target man 2 striker receiver option).

My execution is I unify the hoofing and my normal play. As such, I set my TIs and PIs to launch long balls for the target man, and have faith in the target man winning the air battle. The advantage is that the situation of target man being wasted when the ball is not hoofed does not exist, as well as other players are not being wasted when the ball is hoofed. In this execution, TM is better than DLF becuase there is no better instruction for other player to hoof the ball using PI and TI in all situation.

 

 

[JPChenet]

I've been playing with the TM role in FM18 and it seems improved from previous versions and can be a great outlet for that killer pass through the defensive line. 

The most important thing I'd say to anyone wanting to play a TM is to not to play him up on his own; he needs players very close to him on the pitch and if playing just the two upfront to offset centrally so they are closer together or you may find, as I have, when the TM gets the ball he'll have two CD's between him and his strike partner. Playing them off-centre I've found they play between the defenders meaning that decisive pass only needs to beat one man.

Ideally, I think two players very close to the TM is your best bet.

[ReMeDy]

The TM system I find is better in the lower leagues because there's the potential for a greater discrepancy in stats between the TM and the defender he's manned up with, but yea, you need a godly TM to make it work. One thing I do in the lower leagues is find a TM on loan from a championship team. In the loan options, make sure to select that he can't be recalled or used in cup matches (the AI doesn't seem to mind this), then as you're doing this, groom some homegrown TM's for the future.

[looping]

Well, it seems to me I need a really dominant player in the air if I want my tactic to be successful. It's not easy to find a good Target man, unless you are a top team, and if you are a top team,  there are perhaps better tactical options (and easier to find).

Obviously, this is the exact player I need:

Perhaps he lacks a bit of First touch but anyway I can't sign him. I'll use Mandzukic as a guide to the player I'll sign, someone who looks like Mandzukic but I can afford. A B versión of Mandzukic.

I need someone who has the desire to for the challenge, who wins aerial duels and who can hold up the ball under pressure. Specific attributes I'm looking for:

Mentals: Off the ball, bravery, determination, aggression. I'll keep an eye on teamwork, anticipation, decisions and visión (after all, a TM is a creator).

Physicals : strenght, balance, jumping reach

Technical:, first touch, heading. Keep an eye on Technique and passing.

Note despite I want an striker I have no interest on his finishing.

These are my options:

 

Petagna and Carrillo (specially the last one) are the best options, but I can't sign them. That leaves me with Onuachu, Perica, Cornelius and Weghorst.

Onuachu looks a bit poor overall, despite his jumping reach.

So, I have Cornelius, Perica and Weghorst...

My decisión is Perica. In target man terms, he is Jack of all trades master of none. No crucial attribue below 14 and he is still Young so can develop (nothing dramatical, but who knows, just 1 number up in every attribute could still happen).

Do you thing is a good decisión?

 

[Dr. Hook]

Perica looks a good choice given your range of options, but his passing is kind of poor, and in a support role especially, you want him to be able to distribute decently well. He will knock down balls in and has decent technical skills, but if isn't going to shoot, then he's passing. He looks like he'll do decently, and you can set him some training to work on his passing a bit, even a point or two there will be helpful. 

[looping]

If anyone is interested, I'm not updating because all my attempts are a complete failure and I don't know what is specifically wrong (everything is wrong).

If I make some progress I'll try to update.

[pizarro]

I belive the targetman is as best with a strikerpartner in a 4-4-2 formation. In that formation you have plenty of wide crossing options. If you play the targetman in a supportrole you will ned a striker beside him who offers runs in the channels for flick ons and through passes.

Flexible and standard. TI: be more disciplined, hold your positions and hit early crosses.

Just keep it simple.

 

[kpsia518]

1 hour ago, pizarro said:

I belive the targetman is as best with a strikerpartner in a 4-4-2 formation. In that formation you have plenty of wide crossing options. If you play the targetman in a supportrole you will ned a striker beside him who offers runs in the channels for flick ons and through passes.

Flexible and standard. TI: be more disciplined, hold your positions and hit early crosses.

Just keep it simple.

 

any idea with targetman-attacking role ?
i still searching a way how to deploy TM-att.

for example Lukaku,he best role is TM-Att.

& very few tactic with WTM.

 

[martinb36]

I’ve been playing about with TMs quite a lot. Went for a 4411 with Shadow striker. Fairly obvious mechanic there, long Ball to TM and flick on the SS.

I also ran with conventional wingers to help me get the ball in the box as my other outlet. The target man releases these guys quite often, and crosses seem more likely to succeed in this version than others. Also use a mezzala and a Carrillero at MC since their movement sends them towards the flanks where they can help the wingers out. When the play is central these players will run into spaces vacated by the SS.

Lastly the FB are IWBs so they sit in the DM strata and recycle possession.

Since I changed to this I went W8 L1 for my final 9 games of the season with Auxerre (1st season in ligue 1).

[moolochicken]

44 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

any idea with targetman-attacking role ?
i still searching a way how to deploy TM-att.

for example Lukaku,he best role is TM-Att.

 

 

I used 2 wide target man (A) with West Brom 4-1-2-3-0 wide and got 2nd in premier League (4 teams over 80 points including mine, what a pity). 

Wide target man is used becuase attempts in playing 2 TM(A) never ends well for me, so i deployed 2 narrow WTM(A) instead. WTM is much better in 18 than 17 or 16 by my obervation of watching full matches.

Lukaku has a little bit of base in winger position and can be trained as wide target man if you wish to. Though I seriously doubt that would satisfy your wish xd

[kpsia518]

24 minutes ago, moolochicken said:

I used 2 wide target man (A) with West Brom 4-1-2-3-0 wide and got 2nd in premier League (4 teams over 80 points including mine, what a pity). 

Wide target man is used becuase attempts in playing 2 TM(A) never ends well for me, so i deployed 2 narrow WTM(A) instead. WTM is much better in 18 than 17 or 16 by my obervation of watching full matches.

Lukaku has a little bit of base in winger position and can be trained as wide target man if you wish to. Though I seriously doubt that would satisfy your wish xd

i going to test this :

http://www.thehighertempopress.com/2017/03/finding-mandzukic-brief-guide-wide-target-man/

[Khazard]

I'm playing 5-3-2 WB with play out from the back to stop Def hoofing to TM, mixed passes and gegenpressing, lower tempo.

I have two playmakers in mid one DLP support and one AP attack with a BWM defend and TM support with a trequartista and it works really well.

My TM is 6'6 he has shocking dribbling (6) but decent everything else usually ball gets played over the top or from wings into him and trequartista or ap(a) is always in space around him for a neat headed flick on and attempt on goal.

Or he sometimes just heads it into the net of course.

I wouldn't try this with a TM smaller than 6'4 unless they have a HUGE jumping stat though as defenders tend to be tall with good jumping and will beat him to the ball in the air.

If you can afford him Sergej Milinkovic Savic turns into an absolute beast of a TM support, highly recommend him, will require a little training to master the role but he can also play cm and am very versatile player.

[sherifdinn_]

On 11/19/2017 at 22:44, Dr. Hook said:

haven't used a TM in FM17 to know if this is still a problem.

It isn't, GK distribute according to your instructions

[Swell86]

Milan Djuric is my favorite target man and is always one of my first player acquisitions.  His stats don't look the greatest in the world, but he's big, strong, good in the air, holds up the ball well, and can make some nice passes too.  He scores lots of goals for me at Celtic which includes Champions League play as well.  You can get him for just over 3 million BPS at the start of the game.  Sorry, I don't have a screenshot from the game start.

[Dr. Hook]

16 hours ago, sherifdinn_ said:

It isn't, GK distribute according to your instructions

Sorry, meant FM18- in 17 I still had GKs lump it upfield to the TM at times even with instructions set. Haven't checked this in 18. Have you?

[sherifdinn_]

1 hour ago, Dr. Hook said:

Sorry, meant FM18- in 17 I still had GKs lump it upfield to the TM at times even with instructions set. Haven't checked this in 18. Have you?

I haven't, actually currently use a TM, but the GK doesn't lump it forward.

[w_x]

On 20/11/2017 at 19:31, looping said:

Well, it seems to me I need a really dominant player in the air if I want my tactic to be successful. It's not easy to find a good Target man, unless you are a top team, and if you are a top team,  there are perhaps better tactical options (and easier to find).

Obviously, this is the exact player I need:

Perhaps he lacks a bit of First touch but anyway I can't sign him. I'll use Mandzukic as a guide to the player I'll sign, someone who looks like Mandzukic but I can afford. A B versión of Mandzukic.

I need someone who has the desire to for the challenge, who wins aerial duels and who can hold up the ball under pressure. Specific attributes I'm looking for:

Mentals: Off the ball, bravery, determination, aggression. I'll keep an eye on teamwork, anticipation, decisions and visión (after all, a TM is a creator).

Physicals : strenght, balance, jumping reach

Technical:, first touch, heading. Keep an eye on Technique and passing.

Note despite I want an striker I have no interest on his finishing.

These are my options:

 

Petagna and Carrillo (specially the last one) are the best options, but I can't sign them. That leaves me with Onuachu, Perica, Cornelius and Weghorst.

Onuachu looks a bit poor overall, despite his jumping reach.

So, I have Cornelius, Perica and Weghorst...

My decisión is Perica. In target man terms, he is Jack of all trades master of none. No crucial attribue below 14 and he is still Young so can develop (nothing dramatical, but who knows, just 1 number up in every attribute could still happen).

Do you thing is a good decisión?

 

Didn't realise Manduzkic was so good. Would make a great BWM

[Dr. Hook]

4 hours ago, sherifdinn_ said:

I haven't, actually currently use a TM, but the GK doesn't lump it forward.

RIght- I know with your GK settings correct it isn't nearly as frequent, but I did experience it in 17, 16, 15, 14 etc. To me it is definitely something one wants to keep an eye when using a targetman, because it CAN be a problem- but clearly isn't for you 

[sherifdinn_]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

RIght- I know with your GK settings correct it isn't nearly as frequent, but I did experience it in 17, 16, 15, 14 etc. To me it is definitely something one wants to keep an eye when using a targetman, because it CAN be a problem- but clearly isn't for you 

the players do have a high urge

to pump the ball forward even when there are probably better option in the pitch, it could be annoying sometimes when the target man gets eventually dispossessed. But over all it's fun to watch the big man chest the ball down and bully other defenders just to give a pass😅.

[YouReds]

I love a good target man, they are great for an 'underdog' team at the start of the game. I personally go for a narrow 4-3-1-2 formation with the full backs in attack mentality to provide the width and the supply to the TM. Make sure they have good crossing attributes and that they are crossing from the byline, keeper should be asked to play out of defence and distribute to full backs to avoid the hoof up the pitch. Your target man will score a good number of goals with this in place, not only with his head but also half volleys.

[WannaBeLord]

I will try to build a team around a Targetman. I Will choose Man Utd for the task, and use Lukaku in he's best position as a TM (A). 

Things i have considdert, before choosen my formation : 

As a TM he will create space, so its still importen with other players close by him to draw advance of it. 

With a TM(A) you often want to get your crosses in by the byline, as he will try to dominate them inside the box. 

As told, the TM have an influence on how he interact with the gameplan. Make sure your teamshape and gameplan COMPLIMENT this. 

 

 

 

 

[RocheBag]

On 20/11/2017 at 06:01, Atarin said:

I used to get so frustrated about this. I was desperate to use a TM. The truth is that the TM as FM envisions it is a very specific type of player where as in real life the term Target Man gets attached to any big strong player that can hold the ball up.

The best way to think of a TM in football manager is as your PRIMARY outlet. When the keeper has the ball he looks for the TM, when your defenders have the ball they look for the TM, when your wingers have the ball they look for the TM. As a result using a TM often overrides all other instructions. Everyone will look for the TM before considering anything else. This, naturally, results in lots of aimless long balls. So, in Football Manager you can see that the TM really narrows your tactical possibilities.

That isn't what is meant by a target man in real life. Most of the time we don't mean a brainless meathead who's only job is to stand there and let the ball ping off his head. We mean someone who plays with his back to goal or on the half turn. They come short to receive passes and they are generally strong enough to hold onto the ball for longer periods to enable players to get up around them.

What does this mean in terms of football manager then? Well, In my opinion what most people mean by target man is, in football manager, actually a DLF(s). You can still use someone who's big, strong with TM PPMS like players with back to goal and that will still make them suitable for the odd long ball. I've found if your target man is really limited then setting them as a DF will sort that out because then they basically come short for the ball and lay it off really simple to the nearest player before moving ahead of play again which in reality can mean taking a pass from central midfield, laying it off to a winger before turning and heading for the box ready to head in a cross.

Football Manager's TM is a pretty extreme role.

Additional: I'm aware there are some FM geniuses who know how to game the ME and get the TM working for them in more subtle ways but for most of us that's not an option.

I've used a target man pretty exclusively since FM13 and I've experienced none of this. I've used it in direct tactics, possession tactics, all kinds of tactics and it's never limited anything in any way.

[cns180784]

I've played long ball with a TM numerous times with Villa, i got a TM on loan called James Hanson. Technically he's lacking, actually technically he has the attributes of a League Two player. However he is awesome in the air and beats almost all CB's in the Championship. As a TM the only attributes that are lacking are the two technical ones, first touch and passing however for me the idea of the target man is to just win the ball in the air from long balls for him to nod into the path of a poacher or advanced forward, or shadow striker...also an inside forward on attack but i agree with what someone mentioned about playing 2 other strikers up front with the TM in a narrow 433 i feel that would work best and is something i want to try. However i have had some success with a 442 and a 4123 DM wide so i'm confident a narrow 433 would be even more successful, however i'm only looking to play the long ball with the TM if nothing else is working in games as i am predominantly looking to play shorter passing with the technical players that i have.

Below is the player in question, considered an influential player despite his poor technical attributes and he's joint top goalscorer on 3 goals with two other players. Imo all you need for a good TM is heading, jumping, strength, bravery, aggression, team work, work rate and anticipation. All the attributes that are highlighted for the role in the game, obviously first touch and passing will help a lot if the TM finds the ball at his feet but the idea is to feed him in the air, and i see it as a last 10 or 15 min strategy in a game when you need a goal...going forward this is probably going to be the only time i play this way, unless the scout report on the opposition reports that they have poor jumping reach which is something to surely exploit using a TM and playing a starting 11 that has your tallest players to make the most of set pieces.

[kpsia518]

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-18-tactics/367639-tactics-differant-forums-{around-world}-46.html#post3172783

 

[TomL85]

I have used a TM(support) in my game along with Work Ball into Box TI, and have had modest success with this. The TM is the focal point of my attack and receives and gives a lot of passes. Many of these are short passes to and from the midfielders, so using a TM doesn't necessarily have to mean a long-ball tactic. One problem as is previously mentioned is that the GK disproportionately hits long balls to the TM, so I had to change the GK distribution to shorter passing.