Rainmaker v2 and Silk & Steel v2.......... A Combined Arms approach to FM

[Mr U Rosler]

I don't mean to sound stupid, but I have the slight impression that we are moving away from the tried and tested formation on the basis of fairly little evidence, dont we?

The results may have been below the initial standard but they were not exactly disgraceful either. Now we are talking strikerless, 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1 or whatever. Are we sure that we werent just a tweak or two away from paradise when we started? Do we need this total rethink?

Dont get me wrong. The answer may be yes, I just feel like raising this as I feel there was very little data and evidenfe available before we ditched what we had...

Valid points.

Its not strikerless, so dont worry.

As well as being in the 'results business' i want football that is pleasing on the eye. Having to watch a world class striker miss 8 one on one chances before scoring the 9th to win a game 1 nil you've absolutely dominated is very frustrating with every game being a tense 'grind' even though you may ultimately have a successful season.

I want to explore another way with chances coming in from the flanks rather than thru the middle. Early signs are good but we know there is a lot of variance in short term results.

If this doesnt work out i'll be back onto v3 as i think there is a lot of potential there and my experiments are giving me insights into the new ME which i can bring to bear on v3 if need be.

I know i should probably do all this in private and just put up my final tactic out of the blue when its ready but I just cant help myself when I think i'm onto something and i like sharing the development 'process' with you guys even though i know a lot of you 'dont get it' and just want a tactic

[MTM1977]

Personally i like to read about your thinking process and ideas

It gives some insight about how you go about making the tactics and often gives ideas to try.

After reading what you posted last night, i got a few ideas i want to try either with RM v3 or SS v2 or both.

I will inform you if i my ideas actually work, but i wouldn't count on it

[jayahr]

Totally agreed

Big for your efforts and sharing your thoughts with us. This can only benefit the outcome and is fun before.

[MTM1977]

I decided to make modifications to S&S V2.

I created a home and away tactic (or favorite/underdog tactic) based on it.

Only a few matches played with them, but so far win percentage is 100.

If they continue to work, i will post more details, if not, i will try new tweaks

[blenk129]

Expect Mr U Rosler's work, the same look MTM1977 adjustments. I do not know English, English is Google translation. Haha

[Bushy88]

Valid points.

Its not strikerless, so dont worry.

As well as being in the 'results business' i want football that is pleasing on the eye. Having to watch a world class striker miss 8 one on one chances before scoring the 9th to win a game 1 nil you've absolutely dominated is very frustrating with every game being a tense 'grind' even though you may ultimately have a successful season.

I want to explore another way with chances coming in from the flanks rather than thru the middle. Early signs are good but we know there is a lot of variance in short term results.

If this doesnt work out i'll be back onto v3 as i think there is a lot of potential there and my experiments are giving me insights into the new ME which i can bring to bear on v3 if need be.

I know i should probably do all this in private and just put up my final tactic out of the blue when its ready but I just cant help myself when I think i'm onto something and i like sharing the development 'process' with you guys even though i know a lot of you 'dont get it' and just want a tactic

Mr Rosler, when do you think this tactic will be ready I am desperate to rescue a save.

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr Rosler, when do you think this tactic will be ready I am desperate to rescue a save.

Well, I'm still only 95% happy with what I've got. But it's definafely solid and will rescue your save!

I'm working solid the next 4 days so I'll probably put it up this afternoon even as a stop gap until I'm 100% happy.

It's possible I'm just being a ridiculous perfectionist anyway!

[MTM1977]

cleaning up

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Yeah, i agree with jayahr. Good tactics will and should be able to swap over from one patch to the other with only minor-ish tweaks required. I haven't found RM & S&S v3 too bad and I was kinda worried you were moving away from one of the best if not the best set of tactics available for FM14. Glad to hear you aren't completely going in another direction with them.

[Mr U Rosler]

OK, this is where I am at the moment.

As mentioned before I've got 4 solid days at work ahead so I thought I would post up what I've had most success with which is the tactic I used To do this with Norwich. Season 1, No Transfers.

The traditionalists (JayaHR & Eleanor Rigby ) will not be happy as it is indeed a strikerless formation.

Essentially you have a pretty solid defensive set up with a flat back 4, the FB on support and 2 DM covering. We have a high line still and rather than trying to deal with balls over the top by having our centre backs trying to out pace strikers (aint gonna happen) we are dealing with the problem AT SOURCE which is what the 2 DM's are there to do, CUT OFF THE SUPPLY.

The Attacking play is interesting, because our most advanced player is in the AMC position it draws our opponents defensive line higher up the pitch to engage him. In effect it causes every team you play against to use a high defensive line . We then essentially have 4 'runners' from midfield one of which will invariably end up on the end of a thru ball.

The tactic's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness......

In some games you will create a ridiculous amount of Clear Cut Chances in the form of one on one's. this should be ideal as in real life strikers convert a high percentage of them. Under this match engine its a bit more hit and miss, i had van Wolfswinkel go on a goal famine then net 11 goals in 4 games.

As you can see the midfielders get a good number of goals as well.

Feel free to retrain, Strikers to AMC, AMC to MC as the stats will be good for the roles.

This might be one for the underdogs as I drew a lot of games with Chelsea for some reason but time will tell.

Anyway, I'm going to regroup for a couple of days, i'm sure you'll let me know how you get on.

I'm pretty sure teams at most levels could start a successful long term save with this.

And here you go......

DARK MATTER

https://www.mediafire.com/?8b0a2ear0bj7m5l

PS - THIS TACTIC IS VERY SENSITIVE TO FLUIDITY, YOU WILL CREATE FAR MORE CHANCES AS YOU GET MORE AND MORE FLUID!

[Jambo98]

Interestingly quite similar to my own tactic i have now created, in that its strikerless and uses SS

I have 2 x SS, which seems to give double the chances. But the one key thing i find, which is the same as yours, is that i create a boat load of 1 v 1 chances for my 2 SS players. Much like in previous ME, i still score far too low a % of them. First test i did was with 2 players who were more suited to AMC than ST (so not amazing finishing or compusure) so i will not be too critical of the ME before i test it with proper finishers!

[stg34tx]

I know i should probably do all this in private and just put up my final tactic out of the blue when its ready but I just cant help myself when I think i'm onto something and i like sharing the development 'process' with you guys even though i know a lot of you 'dont get it' and just want a tactic

I really enjoy the insight into your development process, so definitely appreciate you sharing it with us.

I do hope you go back to V3 though as I just can't see myself playing without a striker. For me it wouldn't seem right.

[GJHowell]

OK, this is where I am at the moment.

As mentioned before I've got 4 solid days at work ahead so I thought I would post up what I've had most success with which is the tactic I used To do this with Norwich. Season 1, No Transfers.

The traditionalists (JayaHR & Eleanor Rigby ) will not be happy as it is indeed a strikerless formation.

Essentially you have a pretty solid defensive set up with a flat back 4, the FB on support and 2 DM covering. We have a high line still and rather than trying to deal with balls over the top by having our centre backs trying to out pace strikers (aint gonna happen) we are dealing with the problem AT SOURCE which is what the 2 DM's are there to do, CUT OFF THE SUPPLY.

The Attacking play is interesting, because our most advanced player is in the AMC position it draws our opponents defensive line higher up the pitch to engage him. In effect it causes every team you play against to use a high defensive line . We then essentially have 4 'runners' from midfield one of which will invariably end up on the end of a thru ball.

The tactic's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness......

In some games you will create a ridiculous amount of Clear Cut Chances in the form of one on one's. this should be ideal as in real life strikers convert a high percentage of them. Under this match engine its a bit more hit and miss, i had van Wolfswinkel go on a goal famine then net 11 goals in 4 games.

As you can see the midfielders get a good number of goals as well.

Feel free to retrain, Strikers to AMC, AMC to MC as the stats will be good for the roles.

This might be one for the underdogs as I drew a lot of games with Chelsea for some reason but time will tell.

Anyway, I'm going to regroup for a couple of days, i'm sure you'll let me know how you get on.

I'm pretty sure teams at most levels could start a successful long term save with this.

And here you go......

DARK MATTER

https://www.mediafire.com/?8b0a2ear0bj7m5l

PS - THIS TACTIC IS VERY SENSITIVE TO FLUIDITY, YOU WILL CREATE FAR MORE CHANCES AS YOU GET MORE AND MORE FLUID!

Thanks Mr Rosler - interesting to read your rationale behind the formation, as ever. At the moment RM3 is still working really well for me in the Championship. Am not conceding too many, but that may also be down to the fact that Villa are a "big" team in this division, so has the defenders to deal with the threat at this level, and I have been able to strengthen nicely there as well with my £10million January transfer fund!

As it stands, I have around 16 or 17 games left of the season (I think, I sort of fell asleep playing last night so didn't have the ability to do my normal overview of progress to date at the end of the session!), and have managed to make it to 2nd in the table (climbing from 15th when I was appointed), still with only 1 defeat (in what is probably 14 or 15 games now). So I'll stick with the old adage of "if it ain't broke....."etc.

This one looks interesting - I'm a bit of a traditionalist as well, in that I prefer playing with strikers but the problems with them converting chances created for them in the current ME is frustrating me enough that I may have to revise this view. If I can manage to get promoted to the prem this season, then it may be a useful tool for next.

[MTM1977]

cleaning up

[Bushy88]

OK, this is where I am at the moment.

As mentioned before I've got 4 solid days at work ahead so I thought I would post up what I've had most success with which is the tactic I used To do this with Norwich. Season 1, No Transfers.

The traditionalists (JayaHR & Eleanor Rigby ) will not be happy as it is indeed a strikerless formation.

Essentially you have a pretty solid defensive set up with a flat back 4, the FB on support and 2 DM covering. We have a high line still and rather than trying to deal with balls over the top by having our centre backs trying to out pace strikers (aint gonna happen) we are dealing with the problem AT SOURCE which is what the 2 DM's are there to do, CUT OFF THE SUPPLY.

The Attacking play is interesting, because our most advanced player is in the AMC position it draws our opponents defensive line higher up the pitch to engage him. In effect it causes every team you play against to use a high defensive line . We then essentially have 4 'runners' from midfield one of which will invariably end up on the end of a thru ball.

The tactic's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness......

In some games you will create a ridiculous amount of Clear Cut Chances in the form of one on one's. this should be ideal as in real life strikers convert a high percentage of them. Under this match engine its a bit more hit and miss, i had van Wolfswinkel go on a goal famine then net 11 goals in 4 games.

As you can see the midfielders get a good number of goals as well.

Feel free to retrain, Strikers to AMC, AMC to MC as the stats will be good for the roles.

This might be one for the underdogs as I drew a lot of games with Chelsea for some reason but time will tell.

Anyway, I'm going to regroup for a couple of days, i'm sure you'll let me know how you get on.

I'm pretty sure teams at most levels could start a successful long term save with this.

And here you go......

DARK MATTER

https://www.mediafire.com/?8b0a2ear0bj7m5l

PS - THIS TACTIC IS VERY SENSITIVE TO FLUIDITY, YOU WILL CREATE FAR MORE CHANCES AS YOU GET MORE AND MORE FLUID!

Thanks Rosler, this could be an absolute beast for my side. Diego Costa in that Amc role. I'm working until 10 tonight but will test it out later and let you know

[Mr U Rosler]

Thanks Rosler, this could be an absolute beast for my side. Diego Costa in that Amc role. I'm working until 10 tonight but will test it out later and let you know

Cool, i thought that with ETO at AMC, and Hazard, Oscar and Willian running on from midfield but was good with Chelsea when i was expecting spectacular!

[MTM1977]

Mr U Rosler, if you have time, you could try these settings on FB:

They have worked nicely for me, generates more crosses from which AMC's and/or striker's can score (depending on the formation).

[burnum]

Think I'm also a member of the "traditionalists club" who don't like strikerless tactics. I'm sure the tactics will be awesome (as your tactics always are) but it's just not for my taste as I think playing without a striker seems a bit unnatural.

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr U Rosler, if you have time, you could try these settings on FB:

They have worked nicely for me, generates more crosses from which AMC's and/or striker's can score (depending on the formation).

Not gonna have time myself but would welcome feedback.

[MTM1977]

Not gonna have time myself but would welcome feedback.

I will put them to Dark Matter and see how it goes.

[Mr U Rosler]

Think I'm also a member of the "traditionalists club" who don't like strikerless tactics. I'm sure the tactics will be awesome (as your tactics always are) but it's just not for my taste as I think playing without a striker seems a bit unnatural.

I completely understand but when you look at a heat map the SS & the F9 pretty much occupy the same part of the pitch and the F9 is considered a 'striker'. the other way to look at it i guess would be that my first choice for Norwich was van Wolfswinkel and Chelsea Eto.... they are strikers. the knobs on Match of the Day wouldnt even notice they weren't playing a classic striker role, you'd be lucky if they noticed they were playing a bit deeper.

So it can be down to perception.

[Vince75]

I'm gonna try it with Bromley, even if I also find it strange to play without striker

Edit : well, one draw (0-0) and one defeat (0-4) to start...

[GeesusChrist]

Mr U, I found myself to succumb to a few strange results, Brackley did the double over me with a 4-3 win after we were 2-0 up to name the main one. Villa in the 3rd round, I used S & S in the first half, 0-0 at half time with not many chances for either team, sniffing out a potential upset, I switched to V3 and they scored pretty much straight away, they didn't score again until the 86th minute and again in the 92nd so we went down 3-0!

Anyways, I have another question? What would you say are the main attributes for the 2 Dm's? And are all the CM's the same as the 1 CM from V3? I'd just like to know before I retrain a few CM's I as only have 2 DM's at the club with no spare wages.

Cheers GC

[MTM1977]

cleaning up

[Vince75]

I'll try these ones !

[MTM1977]

I'll try these ones !

Let me know how they work.

They do work with my team in Portuguese 2nd League, but that doesn't say that they would work for example with Chelsea or Real Madrid

edit:

I think my unbeaten run will soon come to an end.

I now have 7 players injured, from which 5 are important 1st team players.

These lower league players are made of paper

[GeesusChrist]

Also, out of interest, have you or anyone else tinkered with the passing, i.e. more direct passing for one of the CM's or a DM, just thinking after watching the England game last night, most of the passing was short, but then you had Gerrard Spraying the ball everywhere with some awesome passing! Just wondered if anyone had attempted something similar with the tactics?

[GeesusChrist]

These lower league players are made of paper

This made me laugh! I have similar problems at Guisley!

[RicardoW]

Which tactic.?

The V3 Beta.

[Mr U Rosler]

MTM1977, probably not a great idea to put 2 more tactics up on the thread as people will get confused as will I when they post on here that the tactics not working and I don't know which one!

I'd probably start your own thread for them :-)

[GeesusChrist]

Well first game and I drew 2-2 with the Dark Matter tactic. Probably the lack of pace in defence that cost us plus we were up against 5th in the league. I'll test it some more, hopefully things will improve.

[MTM1977]

MTM1977, probably not a great idea to put 2 more tactics up on the thread as people will get confused as will I when they post on here that the tactics not working and I don't know which one!

I'd probably start your own thread for them :-)

I thought about it, but since the tactics take base ideas from all versions of your tactics + a few more, i didn't want to make an own thread and take credit for the ideas

I have basically glued together good ideas from different tactics and it seems to work, at least for me, but there are only a few of my own ideas so maybe not enough to warrant a thread

I think most people will look for your tactics anyway, i just thought that the people who want to have a striker, might want to test these, sorry about the confusion this might cause.

edit:

I can edit the posts and remove those if needed?

and i won't post any updates to them anymore, even though i'll surely change them along the way

[jayahr]

Let me express a traditionalist boooooo here

[Mr U Rosler]

I thought about it, but since the tactics take base ideas from all versions of your tactics + a few more, i didn't want to make an own thread and take credit for the ideas

I have basically glued together good ideas from different tactics and it seems to work, at least for me, but there are only a few of my own ideas so maybe not enough to warrant a thread

I think most people will look for your tactics anyway, i just thought that the people who want to have a striker, might want to test these, sorry about the confusion this might cause.

edit:

I can edit the posts and remove those if needed?

and i won't post any updates to them anymore, even though i'll surely change them along the way

No problem :-)

[Mr U Rosler]

Let me express a traditionalist boooooo here

Pretty sure I'll be back to the 4132 soon enough.....

[Jimmyrh94]

Do any of these tactics still work with the latest patch? I assume MTM's latest tweaks are designed to carry us until Mr Rosler releases new ones. Has anyone tried them..got results?

[StretfordEnd]

Do any of these tactics still work with the latest patch? I assume MTM's latest tweaks are designed to carry us until Mr Rosler releases new ones. Has anyone tried them..got results?

You haven't bothered to read any of these last 2 pages then?

[Mr U Rosler]

To be fair, it's getting confusing.

I'll update the front post tonight.

[blackdog]

To be fair Stretford, Mr Rosler said it would happen. Lol

I have used the MTM one with some success with York. Unbeaten in 6 matches in league iirc. No transfers imFMC

He should make his own thread. Seems pretty good. Hes already credited Rosler so....

[MTM1977]

To be fair Stretford, Mr Rosler said it would happen. Lol

I have used the MTM one with some success with York. Unbeaten in 6 matches in league iirc. No transfers imFMC

He should make his own thread. Seems pretty good. Hes already credited Rosler so....

I would think that neither my tweaked tactics or Mr U Rosler's original tactics work properly in FMC.

The tactics have a lot of player instructions and i have understood correctly, FMC doesn't use those?

[blackdog]

Didnt realise that mate, about instructions. Trust me, it works and i appreciate it. Did it as a test thing. Just went with assistants reccomended team and were winning. Bit loathe to give it up and go to the full game really. I suppose this means overall its quite a sound tactic in all the positional parts then?

Edit, im refering to your first tactics MTM.

And i do think you should make your own thread. People in the other parts of the forum have been too quick to jump on downloaded tactics this year. mr Rosler , Chrissy and now youself arent claiming to be plug and play. The tactics are being discussed and tweaked etc and i think its great they are.

[Jimmyrh94]

You haven't bothered to read any of these last 2 pages then?

Yes, actually i read the whole thread before i posted. Please don't jump to conclusions.

It was just hard to tell where the new patch came in, in relation to the comments on this thread.

Also, i was asking if anyone had results from the tweaked version by MTM.

[StretfordEnd]

Yes, actually i read the whole thread before i posted. Please don't jump to conclusions.

It was just hard to tell where the new patch came in, in relation to the comments on this thread.

Also, i was asking if anyone had results from the tweaked version by MTM.

Really????????

[Jimmyrh94]

Really????????

What is your actual issue?

Do you get some kind of kick from voluntarily policing the forum?!

[Vince75]

Let me know how they work.

They do work with my team in Portuguese 2nd League, but that doesn't say that they would work for example with Chelsea or Real Madrid

edit:

I think my unbeaten run will soon come to an end.

I now have 7 players injured, from which 5 are important 1st team players.

These lower league players are made of paper

First game : defeat then a win

[Scotty Walds]

Think I'm going to use the strikerless tactic away at the top teams...

[Clearcut]

I have used the MTM one with some success with York. Unbeaten in 6 matches in league iirc. No transfers imFMC

He should make his own thread. Seems pretty good. Hes already credited Rosler so....

Hmm… I see that about 80% of the Individual Players instructions in MTM tactics are identical with TFF_CROSS_V2

[Braumiller]

More converts to the dark side (strikerless)!

I love the use of your Attacking Central Midfielders in my strikerless formation, and your use of them here looks to be very interesting.

I will download this and test it out tonight once home from work.

[MTM1977]

Hmm… I see that about 80% of the Individual Players instructions in MTM tactics are identical with TFF_CROSS_V2

Some of the instructions are from that tactic, some are from Rainmaker/S&S and there are some from other tactics also.

Like i said earlier, i didn't invent any of this stuff, i just combined parts from different tactics.

However, the tactics are not identical with anything i have come across, not on team or player instructions.

edit:

I have already made some modifications to player instructions, but as i promised not to post them here anymore, i will consider making a different thread for them at some point.

I need to thoroughly test it first. I am trying to remove aspects copied from other tactics before doing that.

Of course, it won't be possible to make completely unique tactics, as someone uses the same stuff somewhere.

[Vince75]

I thought about it, but since the tactics take base ideas from all versions of your tactics + a few more, i didn't want to make an own thread and take credit for the ideas

I have basically glued together good ideas from different tactics and it seems to work, at least for me, but there are only a few of my own ideas so maybe not enough to warrant a thread

I think most people will look for your tactics anyway, i just thought that the people who want to have a striker, might want to test these, sorry about the confusion this might cause.

edit:

I can edit the posts and remove those if needed?

and i won't post any updates to them anymore, even though i'll surely change them along the way

Working great now... i've got a lot of shots, winning much more games than before, thx a lot sir