FM2012 difficulty.

[Matej]

i think i found solution to mine problem. Ill pay programmers after the last patch to make the game harder. End of story. If I would be happy with their work, ill send you their patch, ofc. for free. Im tired of waiting for hard version of FM. Last time i had challenge was FM07.

[Matej]

That's why as Erimus1876 pointed out, we are advocating more advanced options in the editor to make the game as challenging or easy as we want. That way SI won't be required to make any drastic changes in the game.

SI - take the game in the direction you want but give us the ability to mod the game and everyone will be happy.

Yes, we definitely need mods. Every good game have mods. And youll see then, when we make better game, all of these players who voted "game is right " will be on our mods page, wanting our version.

[Erimus1876]

Maybe they should make the patch / fix an optional download and ask anyone who wants to test it, to see if its working, or if it needs more tuning? I don't mind spending some time beta testing a fix for a game I want to play and enjoy for the next 11 months. And I bet I'm not the only one either.

No one whose finding the game perfectly fine needs to worry then as only those who want to use it, will.

[themadsheep2001]

They can tweak the morale, but the same underlying issues remain. The AI simply isnt that robust. Its not particularly good at squad building or indeed, any particular aspect (although it seems better than last year) so the same things that make it "easy" for me still remain regardless. On the other hand there are people at the other side of the spectrum who do find it difficult, and their views on the game should be respected just as much

[Matej]

Maybe they should make the patch / fix an optional download and ask anyone who wants to test it, to see if its working, or if it needs more tuning? I don't mind spending some time beta testing a fix for a game I want to play and enjoy for the next 11 months. And I bet I'm not the only one either.

No one whose finding the game perfectly fine needs to worry then as only those want to use it, will.

i noticed u use some editor program FMRTE? i never used that and i dont want to use that. But can u tell me can some really good programmer use that editor if i got it right , to put some things into the game? Better AI etc? Ill pay whatever i need to pay, now im pretty upset.

Btw. Programmers are cheap in Croatia.

[Keyzer Soze]

I just laugh when i read people saying they what realism in FM.

No you dont! You dont want realism!

I form Portugal, so lets say i gonna play FM 100% real.

1) Start a new game. Try to pick Benfica (my favourite team)! ohhh, i cant do that! Why? Well, because nobody knows me in the football world! Do you really think that Benfica would pick a 35 yo ***** with no experience to manage them? No Sir.! The Game will pick a team for you... lets say Olimpico do Montijo U-21 team, a little amateur team that plays in the lower division

2) Manage the U-21 team for... 4/5 seasons with whatever sucess, untill... lucky me... the manager of Olimpico do Montijo gets fired, and the board offers me the job! Hurrayyyyy!

3) Manage the Main squad of Olimpico do Montijo for 10 years, getting one promotion, but the next year relegated again

4) At age 50, got really lucky and Boavista from Liga Orangina ask me to manage their team!

5) After 5 games, got sacked! Why... well the truth is... i'm not a very good manager! My level is the lower one! Dont get fool... this is real! After all its not the same managing the Liga Orangina and in the lower leagues

6) Well, after 30 years (10 passing by unemployed) i finally retire myself from the football world

Ok... realism is good... but only untill some point!

I want my kind of realism! The one where i pick my favourite team (Benfica), and win the champions league after 4 season (first season... no no no... it would be unreal... but... more then 4 season... i'll get tired... because i want to win).

As i see it... adding difficult levels will not solve the problem. After that we will get all this thread with titles like..."difficult level it«s to hard"...."difficult level it«s so easy"... or whatever.

The only solution i see for this is... The game remains as it is, ad SI provide a Editor with options for all you "FM GURUS - SAF/JM WANNABE'S" make the game with your kind of realism.

[milnerpoint]

i noticed u use some editor program FMRTE? i never used that and i dont want to use that. But can u tell me can some really good programmer use that editor if i got it right , to put some things into the game? Better AI etc? Ill pay whatever i need to pay, now im pretty upset.

Btw. Programmers are cheap in Croatia.

Nah FMRTE only reads game data, so you can only make certain edits to improve anything game wise, i used it a lot in FM11 to make all managers in my league world class and gave all SPL clubs sugar daddys. But it cannot change anything under the hood so to speak. You would need to understand how FM works first before you could consider changing anything like that, which will be practically impossible unless you work for SI.

[Erimus1876]

i noticed u use some editor program FMRTE? i never used that and i dont want to use that. But can u tell me can some really good programmer use that editor if i got it right , to put some things into the game? Better AI etc? Ill pay whatever i need to pay, now im pretty upset.

Btw. Programmers are cheap in Croatia.

As milner says its just a data editor. However its very powerful and a god-send it you want to make the game harder in some areas. For example you can overcome the AI team building short-comings to some extent by improving your main rivals' squads (give them some wonderkids, or increase their key players' attributes). Or do as milner does and give them sugar daddies and a big transfer budget and they will compete better against you in the transfer market. This type of stuff can be done at the start of every new season, or every 2nd season - depending how much time you have or how bigger challenge you want.

The problem with FMRTE is though is it can sometimes corrupt your save (never happened to me yet though). So its not an ideal solution, more of a bandaid fix to squeeze a bit of difficulty out of the game.

As far as this FM12 easiness issue goes the way I'm handling it at the moment is by using a Morale Reset (I'm assuming SI are right in stating it is morale related). To create a morale preset read this post in the editors forum, I've made a step by step instruction list.

You could also set your manager rep to 1 to to see if that makes it harder. In FM 12 you manager starting rep has been significanlty increased for some reason.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/285126-Possible-solutions-to-the-apparent-easiness-of-FM12?p=7281377&viewfull=1#post7281377

[milnerpoint]

Has that made a big difference Erimus?

[Tinkerman84]

I'm impressed!

It's taken eight pages before we got a conspiracy theory:D

Either this thread gets back (more or less) on topic and the bickering stops or it gets closed.

Referring to post 789 in case anybody is confused.

if its conspiracy then you're confessing that you're incapable of making near perfect games.. Since you're judging your success with your profits, you have no option of judging my opinions about unsatisfactory of AI of FM.. and since I'm the loyal customer who pays for FM , I have every right to complain about evrey aspect of dissatisfactory..

SI must sort out and make AI much more realistic so we spent more time playing and less time arguing.. that would what i call a new feature and a near perfect game..

[milnerpoint]

no one makes near perfect games, especially not Kriss

[Erimus1876]

Has that made a big difference Erimus?

Not a massive difference, but on the surface it seems some difference, enough to make my game enjoyable. But I can't 100% say for sure if it works since the league I'm playing in had computer generated players (no real players). So despite my media prediction being 12th, I don't really know how much discrepancy there is between the best team in the league and the worst. I'm doing ok in 9th after 25 games, a far cry to the other games I started. I still win 1-0 or 2-1 after a morale reset, but it doesn't *seem* as easy as other games. Its more enjoyable because its more unpredictable is what I'm getting at, if that makes sense.

Results so far...

[milnerpoint]

Not a massive difference, but on the surface it seems some difference, enough to make my game enjoyable. But I can't 100% say for sure if it works since the league I'm playing in had computer generated players (no real players). So despite my media prediction being 12th, I don't really know how much discrepancy there is between the best team in the league and the worst. I'm doing ok in 9th after 25 games, a far cry to the other games I started. I still win 1-0 or 2-1 after a morale reset, but it doesn't *seem* as easy as other games. Its more enjoyable because its more unpredictable is what I'm getting at, if that makes sense.

Results so far...

Just so im clear are you keeping moral at 12 at all times or are you just changing it back down if it gets too high?

[Tinkerman84]

no one makes near perfect games, especially not Kriss

I waited almost ten years to even see 3D match view,an till then i keep watching some silliy guys on the pitch that walks and runs sidewards, crabwise whatever you call.. at least they should have done much more better with the AI.. I don't expect PES like grapihcs but i expect clever AI.. not unbeatable but much more clever in the long run saves..

[Erimus1876]

Just so im clear are you keeping moral at 12 at all times or are you just changing it back down if it gets too high?

I have it set to 11 (11=Okay). I used it 4 times so far, after the 4-0 win over Spennymoor, morale was superb on around 6 first-teamers and good to very good on the rest. After the 4-1 win over Billingham Town. Morale was sky high before that and one of those horrible winning streaks was developing. After the 1-4 loss to Guisborough I used it for the first time to raise morale, and once again just after the 2-2 with Whitley Bay. In hindsight I think I prefer using it to lower morale as its more of a challenge, and probably a lot easier with all the manager features we have, to raise it without using a reset from abysimal to okay so thats what I'll probably do from now on.

[SeanNUFC]

I have it set to 11 (11=Okay). I used it 4 times so far, after the 4-0 win over Spennymoor, morale was superb on around 6 first-teamers and good to very good on the rest. After the 4-1 win over Billingham Town. Morale was sky high before that and one of those horrible winning streaks was developing. After the 1-4 loss to Guisborough I used it for the first time to raise morale, and once again just after the 2-2 with Whitley Bay. In hindsight I think I prefer using it to lower morale as its more of a challenge, and probably a lot easier with all the manager features we have, to raise it without using a reset from abysimal to okay so thats what I'll probably do from now on.

Waaay too much effort for me tbh. All this morale stuff. Just hope the update works.

[Erimus1876]

Waaay too much effort for me tbh. All this morale stuff.

Its actually dead easy once you have it set up in FMRTE. Only takes a second to do.

[milnerpoint]

I have it set to 11 (11=Okay). I used it 4 times so far, after the 4-0 win over Spennymoor, morale was superb on around 6 first-teamers and good to very good on the rest. After the 4-1 win over Billingham Town. Morale was sky high before that and one of those horrible winning streaks was developing. After the 1-4 loss to Guisborough I used it for the first time to raise morale, and once again just after the 2-2 with Whitley Bay. In hindsight I think I prefer using it to lower morale as its more of a challenge, and probably a lot easier with all the manager features we have, to raise it without using a reset from abysimal to okay so thats what I'll probably do from now on.

Have you tried the freeze attributes setting to see if you could just keep your moral at 11/12 the entire time? I know it freezes attributes but wasnt sure about moral.

[grep]

I'm impressed!

It's taken eight pages before we got a conspiracy theory:D

Either this thread gets back (more or less) on topic and the bickering stops or it gets closed.

Referring to post 789 in case anybody is confused.

The conspiracy theory is human diversion, understandable, of course there is no conspiracy at all.

Other than that closing this thread will only trigger the opening of new ones on the same subject so it ain't worth.

I have seen that on many other FM world forums there is the same thread subject, so it is not a medieval superstition but a reality witnessed in each world FM forum.

[Erimus1876]

Have you tried the freeze attributes setting to see if you could just keep your moral at 11/12 the entire time? I know it freezes attributes but wasnt sure about moral.

I've thought about that but like you wasn't sure if it can be set up to just freeze morale and leave all other attributes alone. Playing the whole season with it constantly fixed on "okay" morale would be and interesting thing to try. I might backup my save and have a mess on, although I'm burned out with this testing malarky to be honest

[Erimus1876]

The conspiracy theory is human diversion, understandable, of course there is no conspiracy at all.

Other than that closing this thread will only trigger the opening of new ones on the same subject so it ain't worth.

I have seen that on many other FM world forums there is the same thread subject, so it is not a medieval superstition but a reality witnessed in each world FM forum.

SI never went to the moon.

FACT

[grep]

SI never went to the moon.

FACT

Neither USA did it in '69

[milnerpoint]

I've thought about that but like you wasn't sure if it can be set up to just freeze morale and leave all other attributes alone. Playing the whole season with it constantly fixed on "okay" morale would be and interesting thing to try. I might backup my save and have a mess on, although I'm burned out with this testing malarky to be honest

Yeah i worry that it would just freeze your players attributes which wouldnt really be much fun in the long run. It does seem like this is mostly related to your team being able to go on huge winning streams quite easily, which im guessing would be tied into moral getting really high really quickly and not dropping from there. If you dont get moral there, then you dont seem to suffer from the problems as much. Fair play for your testing tho!

[milnerpoint]

Neither USA did it in '69

Of course they did, have you not seen Transformers 3!!??

[grep]

Of course they did, have you not seen Transformers 3!!??

LOL

Some fun in this thread is necessary otherwise Kriss may think we are conspirating against the Empire and he, being Darth Vader, may start to loose grip.

[milnerpoint]

LOL

Some fun in this thread is necessary otherwise Kriss may think we are conspirating against the Empire and he, being Darth Vader, may start to loose grip.

Pft ignore Kriss, he is just getting on a bit

I better watch tho, he might do that mind death thing Vader does if im not careful

[Kriss]

All your posts belonga me!

I can multi delete (users as well as posts) just one bad analogy and you're all history:cool:

[milnerpoint]

have i ever told you your my fav mod Kriss......... hahahaha

[shirajzl]

What's the point of this thread atm?

We've established a few things which won't change:

1. SI are aware that a part of the community is unhappy with the game as it is.

2. They've said they were working on it.

3. They also realize that the vast majority of FM users don't post on these forums and there's no way they can know the exact number of unhappy costumers. They can only rely on sales number, which are obviously good enough.

4. They're aware they can turn a part of community against them if they make the game more difficult (while regaining respect of those who are unhappy now), so it's a matter of numbers, i.e. money.

This thread has turned into going into circles and people insulting each other.

[Loversleaper]

Morale can explain a few things, long good/bad runs to some extent. I was just wondering why nobody has been discussing the Match Preparation aspect, I have a feeling that something within this mechanism could be causing some of the issues...

[grep]

Morale can explain a few things, long good/bad runs to some extent. I was just wondering why nobody has been discussing the Match Preparation aspect, I have a feeling that something within this mechanism could be causing some of the issues...

What exactly are you referring to ?

I have read some posts reporting pretty much the same known FM behaviour placing players in the wrong role or even all 10 in attack.

[Erimus1876]

Well, I've posted the FM Editor 2.0 idea in the wishlist thread. Hopefully the guys at SI will see it there and give it some thought. Wether its doable is another matter. If not for next year, maybe sometime in the future. I don't think we can keep asking SI to try and balance the game for everyone - its an impossible task. Allowing us to do it ourselves is the way forward as I see it.

If you agree, please lend your support here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/24018-Wishlist-What-you-would-like-to-see-in-future-versions-of-the-game.-All-list-ideas-in-here.?p=7295781&viewfull=1#post7295781

[Matej]

Well, I've posted the FM Editor 2.0 idea in the wishlist thread. Hopefully the guys at SI will see it there and give it some thought. Wether its doable is another matter. If not for next year, maybe sometime in the future. I don't think we can keep asking SI to try and balance the game for everyone - its an impossible task. Allowing us to do it ourselves is the way forward as I see it.

If you agree, please lend your support here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/24018-Wishlist-What-you-would-like-to-see-in-future-versions-of-the-game.-All-list-ideas-in-here.?p=7295781&viewfull=1#post7295781

Ofc i support!! But i cant put "like" there, its not facebook. Nice post there m8.

[Erimus1876]

Ofc i support!! But i cant put "like" there, its not facebook. Nice post there m8.

No like button no. But you can quote it with one of these ":applause:"

[milnerpoint]

I do like your idea Erimus sadly i dont think what your asking would be a simple task or possible, but kudos for the idea it at least gives SI food for thought

[hugo_rune]

I don't think we can keep asking SI to try and balance the game for everyone - its an impossible task.

Why not, though? They can keep improving AI decision making, and removing exploits. Admittedly every time they add new features it becomes a little bit more complicated but they can and should move in that direction.

[Loversleaper]

What exactly are you referring to ?

Well, it has been discussed that if you keep things simple by using one tactic, thus not using shouts or changing tactics, then you can be relatively successful (tried it a while back and can confirm this aspect). Changing Strategies and using Shouts can effect the Match Preparation reality...

I personally think that the Match Preparation has it's role to play in all of this, somehow...

[themadsheep2001]

Well, it has been discussed that if you keep things simple by using one tactic, thus not using shouts or changing tactics, then you can be relatively successful (tried it a while back and can confirm this aspect). Changing Strategies and using Shouts can effect the Match Preparation reality...

I personally think that the Match Preparation has it's role to play in all of this, somehow...

Not sure this has much effect, i use three tactics and plenty of shouts and am still successful, indeed, i'd put a good amount of my success down to tactical flexibilty, and out manouvering the Opposition, particularly when im the underdog

[Loversleaper]

Not sure this has much effect, i use three tactics and plenty of shouts and am still successful, indeed, i'd put a good amount of my success down to tactical flexibilty, and out manouvering the Opposition, particularly when im the underdog

You'll probably be more successful if you didn't. Before you start discussing how sure or not sure you are with me, maybe it would be a good idea to pass the question on the the main man himself...

[themadsheep2001]

You'll probably be more successful if you didn't. Before you start discussing how sure or not sure you are with me, maybe it would be a good idea to pass the question on the the main man himself...

i know i would be less successful i didnt. the changes arent done for the sake it.

[egesagin]

I always use shouts, and many of them. And change between customized shout compilations in game a lot. But things go well, if it worked like you think, than I'd never be succesful like that

[Loversleaper]

i know i would be less successful i didnt. the changes arent done for the sake it.

If you are talking about the ME before the Match Preparation introduction then I would agree, with the way things are currently then absolutely not. Look, if you don't agree then it will be your oppion - but if you really go into the testing aspect of the game and start to make comparisons you might look at things differently...

[egesagin]

Loversleeper, sometimes my team performs badly and I can't figure out why, we're 3-1 behind at 75th minute and I want to shout pump ball into box. I look and find out that I forgot to give the shouts at the beginning of the match. So they were playing with default tactics. This happened to me a lot, in both 11 and 12 so I'm pretty sure that there is no guarantee on your opinion.

[themadsheep2001]

If you are talking about the ME before the Match Preparation introduction then I would agree, with the way things are currently then absolutely not. Look, if you don't agree then it will be your oppion - but if you really go into the testing aspect of the game and start to make comparisons you might look at things differently...

Its something i always pay attention to, as part of playing the game. I play my game on extended (occaisonally full if i have the time) and i watch the different effects shouts/formation changes have. My game is an extended test (not by design, merely by process), paying attention to what works and what doesnt. I know that my 4-4-2 will leave occaisionally overpowered, thus i switch to my 4-2-3-1, and i regaain the upper hand, or my long passes are going astray, so i use the retain possession shout.

[milnerpoint]

Match prep being over powered wouldnt really explain this, if people are being successful from the off, and your team will never be fully familiar with your formation by the start of the 1st season then i fail to see the big difference it makes when your team is fully familiar. If people are winning from day 1, then the familiarity of the formation is not the defining factor here.

[Loversleaper]

Its something i always pay attention to, as part of playing the game. I play my game on extended (occaisonally full if i have the time) and i watch the different effects shouts/formation changes have. My game is an extended test (not by design, merely by process), paying attention to what works and what doesnt. I know that my 4-4-2 will leave occaisionally overpowered, thus i switch to my 4-2-3-1, and i regaain the upper hand, or my long passes are going astray, so i use the retain possession shout.

Well, if you every really want to get into a debate about tactics, you can always pop in over to the T&T and we can have it there (just remember to roll up your socks first). The thing is that you have to be able to make the comparison first before you know what works or not, because if you did make the comparison we wouldn't be having this talk at all. The MP and it's reality has made this game a lot easier, if you believe me or not is up to you. I think if you asked PaulC, he might be able to tell you about the mechanism behind the MP - it might clear up a few things discussed in this thread...

@milner : the MP opens a window...

[egesagin]

Well if MP is low, the team gets thrashed by everyone, that's normal. But high MP shouldn't let you beat every team. If that is indeed the case, then they should work on the high end of MP.

[milnerpoint]

@milner : the MP opens a window...

Yes but a window the AI can also get through. MP is a very easy thing to get right, you only have 5 options, two of which you would only use for certain obvious situations. I'd be interested to see you show some proof otherwise if you have tested this.

If MP was having such a huge effect then why hasnt it been mentioned when Paul has dropped into this thread?

[Loversleaper]

Yes but a window the AI can also get through. MP is a very easy thing to get right, you only have 5 options, two of which you would only use for certain obvious situations. I'd be interested to see you show some proof otherwise if you have tested this.

If MP was having such a huge effect then why hasnt it been mentioned when Paul has dropped into this thread?

Look, you are clearly not looking at the angles here. Why do you think PaulC keeps saying that morale doesn't have that much an effect as people are suggesting, and I am inclined to agree with him. It does have some consequences, but it is not the make or break of the issue. The 'familiarity' aspect is something that I think has much more influence...

[egesagin]

It almost sounds like you're blaming PaulC for covering up the MP issue by talking about the morale issue AND making a fix for morale. Now that's a conspiracy!

just kidding but if it was about MP, I think he would be nice enough to say it. Am I too naive? :/