How can we improve the network game of FM?

[Olib1983]

Lol

The ironic thing is the manager responsible is an accountant..

I have seen this a few times and feel i should defend it and explain yes i spent alot but if belly linked the sales i made too in that period it would balance out. I have found that with the 48 month deals if you sell alot for upfront and installments then buy on 48 months it can be sustainable. However, if you stop it becomes an issue. The reason people struggled when they followed me to the club is they didnt want to sell the number players needed to keep the club aflot.

[Rich2086]

interesting topic

I havnt played FM online probably since 2009, mainly just played with one or 2 mates. Biggest problems we found were Lag for the none hosting player and the game speed just being stupidly slow.

Another problem we used to get would be the player not hosting would sometimes lose connection then the host would hit Continue and the game would carry on without the other player, just simulating his matches. Very annoying.

FM network games are in the stone age compared to other games id like to see it easier, quicker and more reliable in a nutshell

[elgreenio]

Another problem we used to get would be the player not hosting would sometimes lose connection then the host would hit Continue and the game would carry on without the other player, just simulating his matches. Very annoying.

either that or if somebody loses connection whilst they're in a game you see the post-game processing take a good half an hour extra

[SazoJohnno]

either that or if somebody loses connection whilst they're in a game you see the post-game processing take a good half an hour extra

This happened to me when I was hosting the game and other two lost the connection when playing the matches (The internet and etc are fine) so we found it annoying. Hopefully we could get some decent hosting for FMO.

[dcu223]

"There aren’t too many changes to the network game this year, but you are now notified when you get chat messages from other managers and you aren’t in the chat room. And we’ve made it more obvious on how to start a network game, by adding a “start new network game” option on the main menu screen."

Ok im going to try and stay positive here. Can someone from SI confirm that this thread was setup with FM13 in mind and didnt have the time to incorperate some of the MANY suggestions put forward on this thread.

I wouldnt like to think that the FM online community wasted its time on this thread.

Thanks

Belly

Premiership Glory Clan,,

[elgreenio]

The thread wasn't started until May so maybe they were getting in early for FM13, I just struggle to believe the only thing they've looked at was the manager chat. Miles tweeted me that they do play a network game in the SI office and I can't see how the only thing they've got from it was a chat notification. IMO the chat is the bi-product and there will likely always be something better capable of performing that side of the network game, be it Skype, IRC etc. But the actual fundamentals of playing the game, the ridiculous transfer windows, the ease of allowing the ordinary player (we hear so much about these people and how the game has to be suitable for those not clued up on computers) to set-up a game without messing about with his router and shooting himself in the foot.

Just feel a little bit disappointed really, got my hopes up with Ov actually starting a thread thus looking to take an interest instead of some mod sitting on the fence.

[JadaX]

Very disappointing...online FM gets the shaft again

[Andy H]

"There aren’t too many changes to the network game this year, but you are now notified when you get chat messages from other managers and you aren’t in the chat room. And we’ve made it more obvious on how to start a network game, by adding a “start new network game” option on the main menu screen."

Belly were is this a quote from if you don't mind me asking?

[derrickr]

"There aren’t too many changes to the network game this year, but you are now notified when you get chat messages from other managers and you aren’t in the chat room. And we’ve made it more obvious on how to start a network game, by adding a “start new network game” option on the main menu screen."

Belly were is this a quote from if you don't mind me asking?

Andy - Its from Miles' Miscellaneous Blog 2 discussing the new features in FM 12 http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/275309-FM12-blogs-miscellaneous-(pt-2-of-3)

(the Network comment is in the middle of the page)

[Andy H]

Ah right cheers mate. That is disappointing to hear.

[derrickr]

Ah right cheers mate. That is disappointing to hear.

Thats what i thought as well, especially after getting our hopes up with this very thread being started a few months ago.

Was hoping the network game was going to get some special attention in FM12.

Never mind, after missing FM11 to keep our network game going longer, there are some real decent improvements it seems being implemented for FM12

[dcu223]

I would not be surprised to hear that they just didnt have the time to code the improvements suggested in time for FM12. Would be nice just to have some clarification though especially as the thread was setup by Oliver Collyer and not some random person..

[-T-]

It'd be good to add the feature of making it work

[Andy H]

Making what work? If you are referring to the game it works perfectly fine and many people are playing quite happily online.

So please do not lie the blame at SI for you not being able to play online and not knowing how to use equipment which you have bought.

[JPChenet]

This is what i would like to see brought onto the game somehow...

Most clans have a point sytem of some sort. Sometimes this is difficult to monitor with regard to the person running the clan, particularly with changing jobs, over-achieving etc etc... I would like a manager points system in the network game where the manager has his points showing i.e Joe Bloggs (152) and the manager can claim bonus points for achieving more than expected, negative points for the club going into debt or administration etc etc...

[phoenix81]

Now that FML has finished and online gaming and Football Manager being so popular surley you must improve the network aspect of the game. As a FML player it is my belief that you needed 100000 subs to make it viable surley you can achieve this by mixing Footballl manager offline and FML.

If you get 10% of people who buy FM to play online game that would be your target of 100000 not forgetting those who pirate the game and as it is 1 of the most pirated games about that could double.

If you operated each GW as a Nation e.g England ,spain italy etc or even have 2 nations in each gw and make it just like fm offline but implement the feature of FML where you dont need to play the match in order and put ai rights etc into game surely the server could handle this at a good pace as on FML as each gw in FML could hold 1000 teams

AN added bonus would be only original holders of game could play online so it would cut down piracy of game and people would glady pay £5/month (FML sub cost) or more to play online

PLease Please make network games faster to run and possible to have more players playing

[Andy H]

FM Online has always been about playing against a group of people, making days and times where most clan members can always play not about AI rights and all the FML stuff.

[phoenix81]

FM Online has always been about playing against a group of people, making days and times where most clan members can always play not about AI rights and all the FML stuff.

Ooooops sorry I thought opening post asked for any suggestions on online play or network games or just in general

[Andy H]

Mate you can post any suggestions you like I was just giving my opinion to what you had posted.

[stabwest]

This is what i would like to see brought onto the game somehow...

Most clans have a point sytem of some sort. Sometimes this is difficult to monitor with regard to the person running the clan, particularly with changing jobs, over-achieving etc etc... I would like a manager points system in the network game where the manager has his points showing i.e Joe Bloggs (152) and the manager can claim bonus points for achieving more than expected, negative points for the club going into debt or administration etc etc...

use the hall of fame

[stabwest]

"There aren’t too many changes to the network game this year, but you are now notified when you get chat messages from other managers and you aren’t in the chat room. And we’ve made it more obvious on how to start a network game, by adding a “start new network game” option on the main menu screen."

Ok im going to try and stay positive here. Can someone from SI confirm that this thread was setup with FM13 in mind and didnt have the time to incorperate some of the MANY suggestions put forward on this thread.

I wouldnt like to think that the FM online community wasted its time on this thread.

Thanks

Belly

Premiership Glory Clan,,

Sigames have and are improving the online side of the game.

we can all help by reporting all flaws/bugs we come across online.

as for incorporating stuff......you never know

[The Danimal]

Do whatever you can to make it faster, please, in my opinion it's unplayable at the moment, regardless of the host's upload speed.

[Andy H]

It doesn't seem to be unplayable for some judging for the clans up and running in this forum but will agree and it's been a huge point in this thread that the speed of the game has to be improved both processing wise and for players doing stuff within the game.

[Tactic Master]

It doesn't seem to be unplayable for some judging for the clans up and running in this forum but will agree and it's been a huge point in this thread that the speed of the game has to be improved both processing wise and for players doing stuff within the game.

Have to agree here. In my clan, the speed is good enough for us to play the game. It just requires a half decent laptop and a good internet speed to host the game, with the latter being very important. But as Andy H says, some work still needs doing

[alvaan]

Have to agree here. In my clan, the speed is good enough for us to play the game. It just requires a half decent laptop and a good internet speed to host the game, with the latter being very important. But as Andy H says, some work still needs doing

If there was just ONE thing I could alter on FMO, it's the ammount of times the games stops each day. Especially during the transfer window it's an absolute pain in the behind for me as a host to watch the clock run down, only for the game to process about 15 minutes of in-game time. Give me the power to adjust how many times it stops, and I will kiss the ground you walk on

[Dig_Dog]

If there was just ONE thing I could alter on FMO, it's the ammount of times the games stops each day. Especially during the transfer window it's an absolute pain in the behind for me as a host to watch the clock run down, only for the game to process about 15 minutes of in-game time. Give me the power to adjust how many times it stops, and I will kiss the ground you walk on

That's not all you'd kiss Kim

[Sovielus]

I'm not sure if this has already been covered, but the processing times need to seriously be sped up. When everyone hits continue on our 12-person clan game, we advance a whole 15-30 min in the day. It takes nearly an hour just to move one full day in game, which is pretty ridiculous. Maybe have that on transfer deadline day, but any other day, hitting continue should advance it at least half a day if not an entire day depending on what needs to be done (transfer offers, contracts, etc). Just my thoughs.

[Nautico]

during the processing 15-30 mins at a time is horrible to go through, maybe the clock moves somewhere in the region of 4-6 hours at a time.

[phoenix81]

Is it not possible to put it on a dedicated server where each clan member pays a subscription fee/month

In this day and age when online gaming is so popular FM is left far behind

[taylorsmen]

Is it not possible to put it on a dedicated server where each clan member pays a subscription fee/month

In this day and age when online gaming is so popular FM is left far behind

I mentioned that in the 2nd post, also asked Miles about it on Twitter, he just won't entertain the idea, saying it's not financially viable according to the research SI have done (well something along those lines)

I honestly think the best way to improve FMO is servers, but i won't hold my breath in it happening anytime soon, if ever sadly.

[Andy H]

Would love to see it but like many don't think it will ever happen.

Best thing we can hope for is optimised code that extends processing time considerably, I'm talking a stoppage in the morning, afternoon then evening.

Would also like the lag to be at a minimum in saying that I don't play online anymore so wouldn't really know about lag and such anymore. All these clans play too often for me lol!!!

[dcu223]

Our norwegian host has recently been able to upgrade his net and now gets 5mg upload speed and this has made a massive difference in online performance.

This leads me to believe that as dedi servers are a no go then improvements in pc and net technology will deliver the performance we crave.

Belly,

[phoenix81]

Thats all very well Belly but UK residents are limited to the upload speed they can get probably max is 1.5mb/s if anyone can get higher please let me know who ur with

[taylorsmen]

Thats all very well Belly but UK residents are limited to the upload speed they can get probably max is 1.5mb/s if anyone can get higher please let me know who ur with

We have a new provider in Hull that offer stupidly good upload speeds, here's a screen shot of the kind of speeds you can get http://speedtest.net/result/1622717846.png

I'm joining them sometime next year, hopefully FMO will be smooth as a whistle, only downside is the monthly cost will probably be a lot higher then what i'm currently on.

The company is NextGenUs btw

[phoenix81]

Looks like £25/month which is not bad

[ChipK]

This year I was hoping for a better online experience, but the same issues are still there:

-Speed! Or rather, the lack of. This is due to several things:

-- Amount of news

-- The game stops several times a day

-- UI lag. It takes several seconds to change screens due to the amount of data being sent from the server.

- Dedicated servers! This would be great to

[colusso2]

so SI asked the question over a year ago, yet didn't implement the one big thing everyone is asking for. surely it wouldn't take that much programming to say only stop once a day???

Very dissapointing to have same issues in FM12, and its subsequent patches.

[Gimpymoo]

A Standalone, dedicated server is a definite MUST.

And for those who bang on about requiring a GSP, understand what you are talking about.

The current implementation of listen servers is a mess and is cumbersome for those who want to setup a proper server for themselves and their mates.

I have a rig at home which is used for hosting a minecraft, Killing Floor and a few other servers for friends. I have a good upload speed so runs fine.

It is cumbersome to have to be running the game client just to host a game, there is no need for the gui when running a server. I and others just want to setup a dedi server and run it on our systems and leave it at that and it allways be active.

PLEASE provide a dedicated server alongside the current listen server for those who need them.

[Fabio MVP]

I hope that the Online part of FM will be revamped/overhauled for FM 2013.

[dcu223]

Another option Online clan needs is the option to select : " Go on holiday until the next human controlled clubs next match".

As we currently have 10 members its a pain having to search everybodies fixtures to see when the next human match is.

Belly.

Premiership Glory Clan,

[magicmastermind124]

A mesh network could help against having a dedicated server. Having the files downloaded and updated for all the clients rather than one server will make the game much quicker.

[stabwest]

Another option Online clan needs is the option to select : " Go on holiday until the next human controlled clubs next match".

As we currently have 10 members its a pain having to search everybodies fixtures to see when the next human match is.

Belly.

Premiership Glory Clan,

Surely if you set up the game at the start using the correct options you should only have 2 set playing times in a week (Wed 19:45 and Sat 15:00)

[Rowlands]

Surely if you set up the game at the start using the correct options you should only have 2 set playing times in a week (Wed 19:45 and Sat 15:00)

Sometimes there isn't a midweek game though, sometimes there is. Makes sense as an option. Amazing how much neglect the online play has had over the years.

[dcu223]

Surely if you set up the game at the start using the correct options you should only have 2 set playing times in a week (Wed 19:45 and Sat 15:00)

Correct you do have only 2 game days but when you have 10+ managers in game how do you know as a host if anyone of them is playing on the sat or wed without going into each of there teams and looking. Remember the host takes the game offline in between games to minimize the speed issue so managers cant check themself which is why the option would be a benefit.

[derrickr]

I play FM12 with my brother and a mate. Sometimes we were getting only 3 maybe 4 games a night (3 hour window of play)

What we have ended up doing is actually all holidaying between games, which has made a huge difference - then everyone catches up on their news and then playes the next game.

Its not ideal but the amount of time saved not having the old click continue, then wait....then click continue and wait (when you can always guarantee one person has more news or other stuff to do.....) is massive.

My mate has a fast pc (i5) but internet speed isnt the best. However, we got through an international break (10 days gametime) in 55 seconds (we would be looking at usually 1/2hr if we simply clicked and waited...and clicked...and waited).

I'm just dreading the upcoming January window, where i know it will take us about 4 or 5 sessions just to get through the month, with all the transfer activity.

As mentioned before, its the one thing the online game needs above anything else - less clicks beteen games and more flexibility in how that can be achieved.

ps - and the ability to bid for gems from far off lands (thanks to a scouting tip) without everyone and their granny finding out and either outbidding you or offering more wages - when in reality the first the other players should here about it is the press conference after he has signed

[magicmastermind124]

Agreed on the above, I think they have already been mentioned but still they are welcome.

Given the timescale of this topic I assume any improvements will be made for FM13, if so I am looking forward to the announcement of FM13 and the features. If network play is not improved I will be very disappointed.

[Andy H]

I really really hope they take onboard the ideas that have been suggested and have a good go at making online play more accessible to the masses.

If not then I think we will all be very disappointed for FM13.

[dogs]

I have played in many online games as a player and a host and what I find is if players want to play the online game as a "single player" with all bells and whistles it will be a slow game. If the host implements agreeable rules that all agree on it makes for a far smoother experience. If you load a lot of data on an average pc with an average conn, with it having to process all the individual data from every individual online player who is playing his own "single player game" the game will crawl! I think the little additions like the host being able to force/kick etc do help, but common sense is required as well this isn't FML on a super fast server. Your server is only as fast as your hosts conn, number crunching power of pc and rational thinking on the size of data base used. Game I was part of last year and game I host just now average 10 games a session because sensible compromises have been made. So if you ask me whether the fm12 network game is flawed I disagree as from personal experience I have been part of two smooth running network games. Unless si release a separate online game we will alway be playing off the "full" game. As "stab west" hinted earlier a prudent host will have his network game set up correctly to make sure that all players have as smooth an experience as possible.

I think you have to experiment with database size and power of pc before stating comments about processing times taking too long, a small database with PowerPC with players only having live the leagues of the country they are playing in will take 2/3 mins to move from sat to sat assuming no midweek games and no red tab news for players, where as less powerful pc with a few countries live on a large data base with online players having scout reports coming in for a lot of players will take about 30 mins.

[stabwest]

Correct you do have only 2 game days but when you have 10+ managers in game how do you know as a host if anyone of them is playing on the sat or wed without going into each of there teams and looking. Remember the host takes the game offline in between games to minimize the speed issue so managers cant check themself which is why the option would be a benefit.

I don't follow you bud, we don't drop the game during games, we agree during the pre-season when we play or holiday thats about it, we use skype to communicate but we're on our 20th season and all our games play Sat 15:00 and Wed 19:45, the only time a game falls on a tue or a fri is when a human in the European super cup or world club championship and thats it, So I have no need to know when any member of my clan are playing

hope that helps as my wee head is joe mangled

[silv3rf0xx]

i like the idea of playing online or even hosting between me and my m8 but the port forwarding is a pain just wanted to know if its possible to do something about that i.e have a built in hamachi type thing so people like me who are thick can host without what i perceive to be complicated changes to my router