SFraser's Training Schedules for FM10

[ProZone]

Sounds like we both had the same problems with training. I've finally got me head around the working now and feel I'm better placed to comment and create my own schedules. Before I got SFraser's saved game I was a bit baffled by all the different ratio's and trying to understand them. Plus the fact I've read all the training threads but still couldn't see how it all fitted in. The save game notes help me understand a lot and it all seemed to click for me once I'd seen that.

At least you're decent with tactics!

[Cleon]

At least you're decent with tactics!

I've put everything into training now and got to perfect that now before I can leave it and go back to tactics

[forresthump]

I also found that a few injuries occur with these schedules. I'm a third of the way into a season with Spurs and there are a few players out with injuries, more often than not strain injuries caused by weight lifting. This of course will marry up with the high strength training. This isn't a criticism by the way, just hoped I could ellaborate. These schedules are still very promising. Keep up the good work SFraser.

[SFraser]

By the way, having read the volumes of CA testing, attribute ratio testing etc. that have been done and slowly realising the complication that those approaches would have meant for designing schedules I was always quite suspicious of the fact that there may be a tiny piece of the puzzle which we were all missing that would make the understanding of training easier. Also, I never really understood what the training arrows were telling me exactly, other than the red ones were bad and the green ones were good.

I think the notches to attributes match is the missing piece. These may not be 100% accurate when position and age are considered as you rightly mention, but as a first approximation the results look very promising. Then perhaps, the training arrows exist to guide us through the fine-tuning of a schedule to the specific characteristics of an individual.

Finding the elusive 'balance' in a schedule can be achieved through monitoring and subsequent matching of the arrows when a player is both undergoing improvement or decline (due to age or injury).

My thoughts exactly.

To be fair though I remain unconvinced by my own explanation of the Training Arrows. The Training Arrows do not directly correspond to anything easilly observed though there are similarities and patterns, and this would suggest that the Training Arrows describe something different and more complex than the rest of the Training information, including attributes changes.

For example the pattern of the Training Arrows follows the same pattern as Training Progress from month to month, but crucially the magnitude of Progress change is not replicated exactly in the Training Arrows. An attacking player with a small increase in Tactics Progress, a negligable increase in Defending Progress and a large increase in Ball Control Progress may show identical low magnitude green Training Arrows. This suggests that the Training Arrows take into consideration Position Attribute weight while Training Progress does not.

It's great to know what the differences between two displays are, but if you don't know exactly what either display is actually showing then knowing the difference between them is of very little use.

This is where I could use the help of other people playing the game. I could produce theories all day long and make a lot of sense while being reasonably accurate, but to actually nail down final details so that Training screens and schedules can be used as gameplay instruments rather than testing grounds requires either a quantity of testing I don't have the stomach for, or the assistance of people that contribute here and are interested in finding the same details.

The notch system I am using here is still a theory, but it is one on based on a good foundation of counting attributes and building schedules based on attribute numbers. It cannot prevent Position Bias or Coach Bias or Age Bias, which is why I released Position schedules with 4 different age groups per position, but it can show whether basing schedules on the impact each Training Notch has on individual attributes is worth persuing.

So far the results, minus my errors in balancing ratios for age and position, seem to show this line of investigation is worth the effort.

A year ago who would have though that such radically unbalanced schedules in terms of category notch positions would produce such balanced and predictable gains in players? A year ago the prevailing idea was that a single notch position for every category for every age group for every player at every club in every league would produce the exact same results. An idea so prevailent that it has become the stickied Training explanation in most FM forums despite the fact that the very existence of PA means it cannot work. How can you possibly have a schedule that has +1 for every attribute over X period of time when a player can no longer gain CA?

The point of this thread is to try and explain my own thinking behind the Training system, and to encourage people to take this information and develop their own schedules based on these principles, and give feedback on the results. I may have a decent understanding of how players work but that does not mean I am any good at designing Schedules for players. If the information and ideas in this thread turn out to be accurate then everyone reading this thread can help me by designing awesome schedules and putting them up here for me to download. Everyone wants the greatest possible Training schedules for their players.

As for missing details, I would be surprised if there were not any in this thread.

[SFraser]

I also found that a few injuries occur with these schedules. I'm a third of the way into a season with Spurs and there are a few players out with injuries, more often than not strain injuries caused by weight lifting. This of course will marry up with the high strength training. This isn't a criticism by the way, just hoped I could ellaborate. These schedules are still very promising. Keep up the good work SFraser.

Hi, thanks for the input. A high rate of injuries has always been a worry of mine with these schedules and if possible I would like to take those issues into account when designing future schedules or explaining how to design them.

If at all possible and you are not too busy could you follow the instructions in the following quote and get back to me with what you find?

Answers to the following questions would be a great help to me.

Could you tell me if the injuries occur in Training or in Matches, what kind of injuries you are seeing (is it pulls/strains/tears or bumps, bruises, knocks), and could you also tell me whether you are during the Pre-Season, Start of the Season, Mid Season or End Season?

I would also appreciate it if you could tell me what level your Training Facilities are, and if you do not have a problem using FMScoutGenie could you fire it up and look at your coaches and tell me what their Hardness of Training attribute is at and what Categories they train?

If you can give me this information in detail I should be able to tell you exactly what the problem is and how to fix it.

It would be a huge help if you could give me this information.

[Cleon]

I was under the imprssion the training arrows represented weekly improvements rather than monthly when you view the schedules. Much like training on FML.

[forresthump]

Hi, thanks for the input. A high rate of injuries has always been a worry of mine with these schedules and if possible I would like to take those issues into account when designing future schedules or explaining how to design them.

If at all possible and you are not too busy could you follow the instructions in the following quote and get back to me with what you find?

Answers to the following questions would be a great help to me.

It would be a huge help if you could give me this information.

I'll do my best for you SFraser but details might be a bit sparce as I can't access my save game at the minute.

The majority of the injuries my squad sustained were both during pre-season (which I took as normal seeing as fitness levels were low anyway. I think I'm about 16 games into the season and if my memory serves me correctly I have 5 first team players and 1 youth player out injured as a result of strains caused by weight lifting. I can't remember what level my training facilities are but being Spurs, I would imagine they are pretty good. Hope this helps and if I can provide more information when I can load my game up I'll be sure to pass them on.

[ProZone]

To be fair though I remain unconvinced by my own explanation of the Training Arrows. The Training Arrows do not directly correspond to anything easily observed though there are similarities and patterns, and this would suggest that the Training Arrows describe something different and more complex than the rest of the Training information, including attributes changes.

For example the pattern of the Training Arrows follows the same pattern as Training Progress from month to month, but crucially the magnitude of Progress change is not replicated exactly in the Training Arrows. An attacking player with a small increase in Tactics Progress, a negligable increase in Defending Progress and a large increase in Ball Control Progress may show identical low magnitude green Training Arrows. This suggests that the Training Arrows take into consideration Position Attribute weight while Training Progress does not.

It's great to know what the differences between two displays are, but if you don't know exactly what either display is actually showing then knowing the difference between them is of very little use.

I was under the impression the training arrows represented weekly improvements rather than monthly when you view the schedules. Much like training on FML.

Correct Cleon. The difference may simply lie in the fact that Training Arrows are updated weekly whereas Training Progress is updated monthly. Training Arrows may therefore be a 'real-time' progression monitor whereas the Training Progress graph is a more of progression histogram.

This would make sense but I, like most people I would imagine, would prefer to read this in a game manual rather than be left to make guesses.

Training Arrows are certainly the most responsive of the two as can be seen when players pick up injuries etc.

Now, if we consider the response times of all three training performance displays then there is perhaps also a correlation between the Training Arrows and the Training Levels graph for which both respond on a weekly basis?

Edit:

SFraser, have you ever tried adding the effects of the Training Arrows each week over a monthly period to see if the sum equals the effect in the Training Progress graph?

[Cleon]

I'll find outwhat exactly the difference is, might take a day for a response but I'll try.

[SFraser]

If the Training Arrows are weekly and Training Progress is monthly then yes that could mean they are ultimately identical, but the question is what do they mean?

If they are identical but training arrows are weekly while progress is monthly, this still leaves the issue of accurately understanding what either of the two mean. Does Training Progress indicate actual attribute progress, or does it indicate what the schedule is doing independant of Age and Position?

A schedule might pump heaps of CA into a players Physical Attributes but if that player is old he might still lose CA in his Physical Attributes.

Likewise we have discussed the effect of specific games on player attributes. Do the Training Arrows take this into account?

[Cleon]

If the Training Arrows are weekly and Training Progress is monthly then yes that could mean they are ultimately identical, but the question is what do they mean?

If they are identical but training arrows are weekly while progress is monthly, this still leaves the issue of accurately understanding what either of the two mean. Does Training Progress indicate actual attribute progress, or does it indicate what the schedule is doing independant of Age and Position?

A schedule might pump heaps of CA into a players Physical Attributes but if that player is old he might still lose CA in his Physical Attributes.

Likewise we have discussed the effect of specific games on player attributes. Do the Training Arrows take this into account?

I've asked Paulc, so hopefully he'll get back to me.

I'm 90% sure though that it shows what the schedule is doing rather than actual stat progress though.

[celebritykiller]

*edit have rephrased my entire post from earlier iteration to make more sense, although probably not by much!*

Why does reflexes get counted in aerobic for outfield players when it is a pure GK attribute?

All other GK specific attributes do not get counted if we go by your attribute per category volumes (and the UI discounting composure/concentration) so was wondering if you'd checked reflexes is definately a factor for outfield aerobic training

Furthermore, can goalkeepers not train attacking given passing/creativity are key for sweeper keepers (again the ui doesn't display it...)

[Cleon]

Paulc just got back intouch and gave me the name of someone who works on the training sections and I've asked him the questions SFraser raised above. Hopefully He'll respond over the next day or so and clear a few issues up for us.

[Kevaldo]

Just a quickie regarding match events and attribute changes. I've noticed if you fine someone after they've received a red card their aggression stat goes down. I had Steven Taylor drop from aggression 18 to 15 in one season because he kept getting sent off!

[ProZone]

Why does reflexes get counted in aerobic for outfield players when it is a pure GK attribute?

All other GK specific attributes do not get counted if we go by your attribute per category volumes (and the UI discounting composure/concentration) so was wondering if you'd checked reflexes is definately a factor for outfield aerobic training

Furthermore, can goalkeepers not train attacking given passing/creativity are key for sweeper keepers (again the ui doesn't display it...)

Well spotted, I noticed this too. I don't know the answer to be honest. My suspicion is that it doesn't get trained for outfield players and therefore the Aerobics category unit would be 5 instead of 6.

Another point to tidy up with SI perhaps now that Cleon has found a contact ??

Also for Goalkeeper schedules, the Set Piece category has 1 attribute in there (Free Kick Taking) which SFraser appears to have ommited from his ratios. Probably because it's useless. Could you confirm SFraser?

[ProZone]

Just a quickie regarding match events and attribute changes. I've noticed if you fine someone after they've received a red card their aggression stat goes down. I had Steven Taylor drop from aggression 18 to 15 in one season because he kept getting sent off!

Well spotted. I see this too. However, this is slightly different in that Aggression is not a trainable attribute (like Bravery and Influence) so this is somewhat outside of the realm of these schedules I would say.

Free Kick Taking on the other hand is more interesting as it can suddenly jump due to match events but it is also a trainable attribute. SFraser I believe is trying to find the details from any evidence posted in here to be able to distinguish the two influences clearly.

[Comedybegs]

I have been having a few injury problems as well and it seems to be for players who suddenly go onto one of the more high intensity schedules. For example I bought some Turkish 18yo and 2 days later he pulls a hammy in training.

Iv been through my squads and although the injury list isnt as long as I thought it was a couple of my good youngsters have gone down which is slightly worrying. So here it goes:

1st team squad - twisted ankle, strained neck, pulled hamstring, torn hamstring (all done in matches)

Reserves - gashed leg (x2) (training)

U18's - Stubbed toe, Strained Knee Ligs (U18 matches)

Strangely all my injuries seem to be to my strikers and attacking midfielders (except one DM).

I have top training facilities and all my coaches have hardness of training between 10-15 except one Fitness coach and my attacking coach who are 20 and 18 respectively. I might just be seeing a pattern...

Apart from the injuries the schedules look to be doing pretty well and tbh even the injuries arent that bad although I havent got far just yet. I plan on doing a long term test probably tomorrow night as I have a few things I want to look at so if I do it I will let you know my results.

[shocking]

If you have a player with a specific weakness, would it be useful to intensively train this particular category, while dropping all the other training categories to zero?

For example - training a young but weak player with zero everything, but with both fitness categories as high as possible? The idea being that you get the most physical gain while young, and then gain back any other mental/technical losses when they are older, and (hopefully) not physically weak any more?

Likewise, with a player who is physically awesome while being deficient mentally/technically - drop fitness training to zero and other key areas to intensive, until the player is better balanced, at which time you can switch to a "normal" training regime.

I know the latter method works as I did this with Theo Walcott and he turned into a half decent player, but haven't tried the former yet.

[Cleon]

There is still 1 thing I am unsure of, take a look at this player;

How would you train someone like that? I've found the further you go into the game you find quite a few youths with extremely good stats like the above. But what sort of things should be focusing on as he is still young.

[likeabawss]

i asked something similar to that about a good 18 year old starter above and SFraser said that it'd be best to put him on a 1st team schedule if his stats are already well rounded and on a developing schedule if he needs some improvement in key areas. judging by your screenshot, it looks like he's got good stats everywhere so i'd think that a 1st team schedule would be best for him

off topic, but how the hell did he get 17 goals in 5 non competitive games?

i'm curious, though, as to what schedule pato would fit under. he's physical stats are great, but there are some key areas that could use some work. still, he's easily an automatic starter so all that heavy development training could be pretty bad for him. i'm thinking 1st choice ST would be best for him

also, what training would deep lying playmakers such as pirlo fall under? i play him in the DM spot, but obviously DMs need to stay very creative. since he's getting on in his years, i'm pretty sure it would definitely have to be a veteran schedule. perhaps veteran AM would work? it's either that or veteran CM.

[GADONGTA]

SFraser, Cleon,

Assuming that I am not mistaken on your theory of Notches Weighing then should each position notch base distribution be something like this?

Weighing	GK	DR/L	WBR/L	SW	DC	DMC	MC	AMC	MR/L	AMR/L	ST
Strength	6	8	8	7	9	10	9	9	8	8	8
Aerobic		17	15	14	16	17	14	14	16	16	18	21
Goalkeeping	20	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Tactics		20	14	13	14	13	12	12	13	10	10	12
Ball control	3	7	9	9	8	9	9	10	10	11	14
Defending	4	11	8	8	12	8	6	5	5	5	4
Attacking	2	4	5	5	3	7	8	8	6	5	4
Shooting	2	4	4	5	4	7	8	9	7	7	10
Set pieces	0	6	7	5	5	5	5	5	8	8	6
NOTCHES		74	69	68	69	71	72	71	75	70	72	79

I tried your schedules, however, I found them to be a little bit too physically heavy, yet, your new training theory is very interesting and I really want to try to develop schedules of my own based on your theory. I will consider your opinion that the "training line theory" might be misleading and have no problem on what you proposed of heavy workload training, however, I am quite reluctant with heavy physical focus schedules such as yours as from my own experiences, a high physical level will always give you injury headache and injuries will have negative growth impact on the players. Maybe that was one of many reasons why I was a fan of the "optimisation theory" in the first place.

[phnompenhandy]

Been waiting for this for so long SFraser; now you've released it I'm buried under work commitments, dammit. However, I'll be a willing guinea pig within that proviso. My savegame should be a useful laboratory given that I've manipulated it to optimise youth development.

I'm in the 10th tier with a fairly small squad. CA is very low but the younger ones have high PA. I have 20 training fac. youth acad, and 4 very good (not perfect) coaches. I've just given them 20 for Hardness of Training.

Although the players' attributes are very low, I maxed (20) all of them for DETERMINATION, WORKRATE, AMBITION and PROFESSIONALISM, so in this artificial environment they can optimise the training schedules. What's more, with a small squad that includes experienced old warhorses, many of the kids will get a decent run-out in the first team.

Time permitting, my intention is to hang on to these young players as we rise through the leagues and really get to know them and nurture them.

A couple of observations so far:

Injuries

You did a brilliant analysis of injuries last year, yet I can't remember if you addressed this specific point: I believe that with schedules like set-piece training a player can be on the top notch and never pick up an injury - he's just hitting a dead ball, after all (unless he dislocates his shoulder doing 'Rorys', I guess), but the fitness ones are very liable to injury - over-exertion with weights etc. Is this correct, and have you factored it in?

Stamina for goalkeepers

I have a 17 year old (sweeper)keeper who's getting first team action who has a stamina of 1. I've not experienced any problems - after all, they don't get about much. The other aerobic attributes are very necessary, of course.

On the subject of keepers, I'm on the 10.1 patch, pre changing composure/concentration for keepers. What alteration to your GK schedules should I make?

[lch]

As usually, very good thread .

I tried your schedules with Tom & Jerry and compare results to my previous player's tests progression.

Tom and jerry are strikers.

At this time, I just evaluated "under 18" schedule for striker.

Black curve : basic schedule, no tutoring

As you can see, the highest level is reached with SFrazer's Schedules.

And what about Strength and Aerobic ?

After 1st year :

- Klunk's Schedule : +8,20 %

- Heavy personal schedule : +9,46% (it's a just a test schedule created only for these tests. I never use it : p )

- SFrazer's schedule : + 10,41%

[leaderoftheshed]

A really stupid question, but how do you open a .tsh file??

[vasilli07]

A really stupid question, but how do you open a .tsh file??

You don't need to open, can just save it to schedules folder. And load it in your game.

[leaderoftheshed]

You don't need to open, can just save it to schedules folder. And load it in your game.

I did that, but it didnt show up in my schedules folder. any suggestions?

[GADONGTA]

I did that, but it didnt show up in my schedules folder. any suggestions?

Training (Ctr+U) -> Schedules -> Manage schedules -> Import -> Select -> OK, simple!

[ProZone]

[size=3]Weighing    GK    DR/L    WBR/L    SW    DC    DMC    MC    AMC    MR/L    AMR/L    ST[/size]
[size=3]Strength    6    8    8    7    9    10    9    9    8    8    8[/size]
[size=3]Aerobic        17    15    14    16    17    14    14    16    16    18    21[/size]
[size=3]Goalkeeping    20    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0[/size]
[size=3]Tactics        20    14    13    14    13    12    12    13    10    10    12[/size]
[size=3]Ball control    3    7    9    9    8    9    9    10    10    11    14[/size]
[size=3]Defending    4    11    8    8    12    8    6    5    5    5    4[/size]
[size=3]Attacking    2    4    5    5    3    7    8    8    6    5    4[/size]
[size=3]Shooting    2    4    4    5    4    7    8    9    7    7    10[/size]
[size=3]Set pieces    0    6    7    5    5    5    5    5    8    8    6[/size]
[size=3]NOTCHES        74    69    68    69    71    72    71    75    70    72    79[/size]

SFraser has not made any specific account of attribute weighting in his schedules and in this thread.

What SFraser has put forward is a baseline (the 'Test' schedule) where each category contains 1 training unit. The unit (or 'core' number of slider clicks) for each category is simply equal to the number of attributes that category trains.

SFraser then implements added focus in the key areas for each position.

So, as an example, for a DC you may want to train Defending by 3 units, Tactics by 3 units, Aerobic by 4 units and leave all other training categories at 1 unit. This is the provision of focus for the DC position.

Thus, the training problem is broken down into a very easy-to-understand format. For each training category:

unit x focus = slider position

To reiterate, there is no specific account of attribute weightings in SFraser's schedules. There is only the added focus that he wishes his players to put into their development, based on their position.

I say specific because arguably there is a slight exception relating to the physical training categories, Strength and Aerobic. The attributes contained within these two categories are well known to decline at an increasing rate with increasing age. This effect may be interpreted as a programmed increase in the attribute weightings, if it helps you to conceptualise things in this way. You will no doubt have noticed that SFraser has added additional focus to the strength category in all of the Veteran schedules to compensate for this effect and try to extend the playing careers of older players for as long as possible. In this sense he is accounting for the weigthings of the Physical attributes.

Otherwise, you are entirely correct to point out that each attribute is weighted in the game. There is convincing evidence in these forums that all weightings which exist in the game code relate to individual attributes rather than training categories as your table suggests. Unfortunately, much effort has gone into working out what the weightings are and has not provided a conclusion. Such effort was/is extremely time consuming and it is also extremely difficult to be sure of the accuracy. There is also no clear vision on how such precise and detailed information would be used to construct sensible, manageable training schedules either and is, in my opinion, a training schedule development dead-end.

[ProZone]

There is still 1 thing I am unsure of, take a look at this player;

How would you train someone like that? I've found the further you go into the game you find quite a few youths with extremely good stats like the above. But what sort of things should be focusing on as he is still young.

I'd definitely look to boost his Natural Fitness and Stamina through Strength training. Increased Natural Fitness will aid his recovery between matches and when the inevitable decline in Physical attributes occurs (albeit in around 9 years time) then he will hopefully still have sufficient Stamina to last a full match per week or so.

I would look to balance his schedule out and then add as much focus to the Strength category as you dare.

By the way, my idea of 'balance' is when all the training arrows look the same, whether they're pointing up or down. The former would be balanced improvement, the latter balanced decline. You could also achieve balanced maintenance where all categories display -. The actual notch positions for balance will almost certainly be unique to each player. I'm eagerly waiting to hear the response you get from SI regarding these displays to confirm whether this interpretation is correct or not.

[Cleon]

I'd definitely look to boost his Natural Fitness and Stamina through Strength training. Increased Natural Fitness will aid his recovery between matches and when the inevitable decline in Physical attributes occurs (albeit in around 9 years time) then he will hopefully still have sufficient Stamina to last a full match per week or so.

I would look to balance his schedule out and then add as much focus to the Strength category as you dare.

That's what I've done for him already. I'm not sure how much strength training to give him though. Although when I signed him 2 seasons ago he only had 7 for stamina so it's increased a lot already.

[Tubey84]

I'd just like to add that I'm seeing several more injuries with these schedules, however those that stay fit do improve at a fairly impressive rate.

Hamstring tears seem to be the number one problem, especially with attacking players.

[Cleon]

I'm getting injuries, but nomore than I was before. Atleast on my games that is.

off topic, but how the hell did he get 17 goals in 5 non competitive games?

Because I won 3 friendlies 19-0, 15-0 and 14-0.

[DanTheMan999]

Just a quick question, did have a quick read through but couldn't see anyone who mentioned it.

Is there any reason that the youth training is at maximum heaviness?

[celebritykiller]

My personal opinion is that training is too heavy for young players: by having such a high workload and requiring such high relative aerobic training to ensure attributes are distributed physically, the risk of injuries is too great for me.

[MatchDayReds]

SFraser,

great schedules. One question, what are the short term injuries and long term injuries schedules for, and when should they be used?

[GADONGTA]

I'm getting injuries, but nomore than I was before. Atleast on my games that is.

Because I won 3 friendlies 19-0, 15-0 and 14-0.

My personal opinion is that training is too heavy for young players: by having such a high workload and requiring such high relative aerobic training to ensure attributes are distributed physically, the risk of injuries is too great for me.

I have the same opinion with Celebritykiller. I don't know about Cleon's usual injury encounter though but definitely my players are more exposed to BIG injuries (and i'm talking 1-3 months here) with higher physical training level such as Sfraser's schedules than my usual experiences. Even some players stated that that the Fitness training level is too heavy for them. (Especially those in the Developing Schedules) If you might think that they were lazy or unprofessional but actutally they are not as the maximum physical level that I let them train based on the old theory (in pre-season) of 32 which was not at all low but they still generally accepted the schedule and most did not get nasty injuries. I also took the liberty to count the physically notches for the developing schedules from SFraser and not surprisingly, they were 40 which are much higher than my usual maximum physical level in pre-season.

[phnompenhandy]

If you might think that they were lazy or unprofessional but actutally they are not as the maximum physical level that I let them train based on the old theory (in pre-season) of 32 which was not at all low but they still generally accepted the schedule and most did not get nasty injuries. I also took the liberty to count the physically notches for the developing schedules from SFraser and not surprisingly, they were 40 which are much higher than my usual maximum physical level in pre-season.

As I suggested above, the total number of notches is irrelevant re. injuries, since you can max out schedules such as set-pieces or tactics and they won't cause injuries. It seems to me that the main cause of training injuries is having the two fitness schedules too high. SFraser is also the person who's done the best research in causes of injuries, so I too am looking forward to him getting back to us on this matter.

[QiwNdutz]

Hello SFraser, this is a nice thread about training

I use your schedule here, and have some injury problems like the others too..

As I suggested above, the total number of notches is irrelevant re. injuries, since you can max out schedules such as set-pieces or tactics and they won't cause injuries. It seems to me that the main cause of training injuries is having the two fitness schedules too high. SFraser is also the person who's done the best research in causes of injuries, so I too am looking forward to him getting back to us on this matter.

I agree with you, fitness schedules is way too heavy in this training..

For example of my injury:

- overexerting in the weight room -> from strength schedule?

- ... while sprinting -> aerobic?

- damaged neck when jumping -> aerobic?

- robust challenge -> defending?

I never get a damaged neck injury before, it's a little bit annoying because I'm challenging for the title this season (2020/21 with Man Utd) and I only have 18 good players + 4 promising youngsters, and the injury is 2 weeks to 3 months..

I hope SFraser will be back soon, meanwhile I will use this training for a season and see what happen then..

[JLJ27]

Edit: wrong thread

[Veg]

Sfraser: Any chance you could create a schedule for the traditional winger type. The one that hugs the line and are supposed to get crosses in. Don't think any of your schedules fits that bill, and the ones I've tried to creat are just plain rubbish.

[grimness]

I'm one of those that was taking optimization route. This has shown me new perspective. However in FM 10 physical training can lead to many injuries and I've even abandoned full optimization as any physical training above 13th notch has increased injuries. I'll play some test games to see how this develops but for my current games I'll limit strength and aerobic while implementing SFraser's views on other aspects.

As always SFraser has delivered some great food for thought.

[ProZone]

I'd just like to comment on the growing swell of people reporting injuries with these schedules.

It is sensible to assume that increased Physical training carries an increased risk of injury, it even says so in the manual. But it is also sensible to assume that if you are demanding high Physical training intensities then you need to ensure you have good coaches and good physios to minimise the risk of injury. It is not a isolated problem with these schedules per se, nor is there a specific notch number below which injuries will not occur.

If you are asking players to train hard physically then make sure you provide them with top quality training and recovery support staff accordingly. Maximise your options for player development, don't limit them!

[QiwNdutz]

I'd just like to comment on the growing swell of people reporting injuries with these schedules.

It is sensible to assume that increased Physical training carries an increased risk of injury, it even says so in the manual. But it is also sensible to assume that if you are demanding high Physical training intensities then you need to ensure you have good coaches and good physios to minimise the risk of injury. It is not a isolated problem with these schedules per se, nor is there a specific notch number below which injuries will not occur.

If you are asking players to train hard physically then make sure you provide them with top quality training and recovery support staff accordingly. Maximise your options for player development, don't limit them!

I have 3 fitness coach with 20 at fitness, all world class, and 4 stars at training strength and aerobic.

I have 5 physio with 20 at physiotherapy, 1 with 19, all national reputation.

I'm sorry but I don't know what is wrong here ProZone. :confused:

[Daniel Sad]

As i can see there isnt a DM (defensive midfielder) schedule... i need this kind of player with my tactics...

will be a DM training in your next schedule????

[grimness]

CM schedule is for DMs and CMs.

[TheTiger]

CM schedule is for DMs and CMs.

SFraser mentioned it: CM Schedules:- Central Midfielder Schedules based on Physical Attributes and Tactics, i.e. quite defensively minded for the central position. The Developing Schedule is based on Physical Attributes first with all others getting a smaller equal share. The 1st Choice and Veteran Schedules are based on Strength and Tactics. 1st Choice is the Schedule Mascherano was on in the screenshot and seems quite balanced to me, although you can easilly do several things with it. Reducing Ball Control by 5 notches and increasing Defending by 3 and Attacking by 2 should produce a Schedule more like one for a DM.

So I have created 3 new schedules (1 for each) where I have copied the CM and altered acording to SFraser description.

For the answer from QiwNdutz about fitness coaches:

Remember that it's not just about high training abilities but allso the mental stats.

A Fitness coach with 20 in fitness needs 45 points in DDM (Determination, Discipline and Motivation) to get 5 stars.

A good physio needs 20 in Physio (offcourse) and good Determination and Discipline.

And then there is allso the training ground and facilities.

[ProZone]

I have 3 fitness coach with 20 at fitness, all world class, and 4 stars at training strength and aerobic.

I have 5 physio with 20 at physiotherapy, 1 with 19, all national reputation.

I'm sorry but I don't know what is wrong here ProZone. :confused:

I agree with TheTiger's advice.

In addition, make sure you make use of the option to give players rest days, especially after a match if they have a very low condition %.

It makes sense that if you want your players to train hard then you need to make sure they are in good condition to do so. To ensure this, make sure you rotate your squad sufficiently (SFraser has specifically stated he does this) and use rest days to overcome any short-term condition problems.

It is basically the same approach that you would normally take for matches. You wouldn't normally play a player at 85% condition so make sure you apply the same philosophy to training too and I'm sure your injury problems will improve.

I think it's interesting to note SFraser's approach to squad management in addition to using these schedules. High workloads will naturally cause problems if you're playing the same 11 players every game but not if you continually manage your players, particularly their condition, correctly

[bram09]

sorry can someone break it down for me in brams very thick guide?

do i put my older say 30 plus players on veteran

say the lads between 25 and 30 on first team

and the others on developing

or am i missing the trick?

[QiwNdutz]

For the answer from QiwNdutz about fitness coaches:

Remember that it's not just about high training abilities but allso the mental stats.

A Fitness coach with 20 in fitness needs 45 points in DDM (Determination, Discipline and Motivation) to get 5 stars.

A good physio needs 20 in Physio (offcourse) and good Determination and Discipline.

And then there is allso the training ground and facilities.

I see now..

I agree with TheTiger's advice.

In addition, make sure you make use of the option to give players rest days, especially after a match if they have a very low condition %.

It makes sense that if you want your players to train hard then you need to make sure they are in good condition to do so. To ensure this, make sure you rotate your squad sufficiently (SFraser has specifically stated he does this) and use rest days to overcome any short-term condition problems.

It is basically the same approach that you would normally take for matches. You wouldn't normally play a player at 85% condition so make sure you apply the same philosophy to training too and I'm sure your injury problems will improve.

I think it's interesting to note SFraser's approach to squad management in addition to using these schedules. High workloads will naturally cause problems if you're playing the same 11 players every game but not if you continually manage your players, particularly their condition, correctly

I usually rotate 5-6 players every match because of the limitation of my squad, but I guess that's not enough..

I'll try to give more rest to my playing squad then, and I have one final question: How about reserves and youth team? I suppose they have to get some rest too?

Thanks for the answers, guys!

[cragswfc]

sorry can someone break it down for me in brams very thick guide?

do i put my older say 30 plus players on veteran

say the lads between 25 and 30 on first team

and the others on developing

or am i missing the trick?

very good question i was going to ask the same