The Frustration Of FM 2010!! Crash Dump Error Galore!!

[bobmeik]

The game is an abssolute ****ing joke! how can it be released when so many people are having this problem that SI Games do not know how to fix?! I was in my third season and my game has crashed for the 4TH time in the space of 4 hours and now it wont even load up my saved game. It is a disgrace. I am ****ing well and truely ****ed off to say the very least!

Can anyone from SI Games, SEGA or any other related party please let me know what you intend to do about this obvious flaw in the game as all I have read is a fat load of NOTHING!!!:mad::mad:

[Jiminy_Cricket]

I'm really upset with this years edition, it just isn't good enough. Games have always had some bugs, but in today's world it's totally out of control ! It seems to me that the deadlines rule the qaulity of the product and it saddens me that respected compainies like SEGA are prepared to sell us a game that does not meet the basic standards and even worse no one seems to be too bothered about upholding these standards !

Unfortunatley If no patch or solution is found anytime soon I will have to abandon my 5 year love affair with the Football Manager Series and go with Championship Manager from now on. In an ideal world I'd rather play FM but also in an ideal world I'd like to play the game uninterupted by bad design.

I strongly urge everyone to follow suit as the only way to make these people realise they can't treat us like this as a captive audience. Threaten their sales and then they might get their act together.

Look at what happened with EA's FIFA, after several years lossing sales to Konami's Pro Evo series they finally pulled their finger out and came back with a top qaulity product that won the masses back!

SEGA YOU HAVE JUST BEEN CRASH DUMPED!!!

[Aseem]

We're aware of a memory issue which is causing problems in some games with some setups and we're looking into it. The 10.1.1 helped lower some of the memory usage within the game, however if you're running many leagues and a huge database you are at more risk of suffering from issues. As said we're looking into it and there is a thread all about it in the technical issues forum inside the FM2010 Bugs Forum. Thanks.

Erm, sorry to say this Neil, but I am still having an issue with it, I keep getting a crash Dump error every few matches on the tactics screen?,, Can you please fix this bug, because it is the only problem i have ever encountered during football manager ( Which I have bought every year), Thanks.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Make sure you've done the obvious stuff to avoid crashes before assuming it's a problem with the product....

- Update graphics card and sound card drivers.

- Update Java.

- Update DirectX.

- Don't overdo the number of leagues you're starting with.

You can find all help on all of this here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=177053

That'll stop 99% of crash issues.

Cheers, and merry Christmas.

Matt

[deep64blue]

Unfortunatley If no patch or solution is found anytime soon I will have to abandon my 5 year love affair with the Football Manager Series and go with Championship Manager from now on. In an ideal world I'd rather play FM but also in an ideal world I'd like to play the game uninterupted by bad design.

You want to avoid bad design and bugs so you're going to play Championship Manager, good luck but I certainly won't be following you.

[arsenal69]

well it's not 99%... i've done it all and it still...didn't work...

[cain]

:)I understand that this will not help anyone and i was rite peed off when i bought the game because of the crash dumps but since patch 10.2 was released i have not had 1 single crash dump compared to 1 every few games before it.

This shows 2 things:-

SI have worked really hard to fix the problem and for me it has been fixed and that it was actually nothing to do with my computer to start with as they were trying to say.

I can actually see it releasing memory now after each game, before it was jst building up memory.

WELL DONE SI, ONLY HOPE THIS CAN BE FIXED FOR OTHERS AS WE ALL DESERVE TO PLAY THIS GREAT GAME:D

[deep64blue]

SI have worked really hard to fix the problem and for me it has been fixed and that it was actually nothing to do with my computer to start with as they were trying to say.

That's not quite true or everyone would be having problems. SI have said it's a combination of the game and specific machines that hit the problem. 10.2 addresses some issues in the game and it's great that it's fixed it for you.

[dsggti]

That'll stop 99% of crash issues.

Matt

That is a complete lie and you know it!!! You know perfectly well that a lot of people are having this trouble and have done EVERYTHING you have suggested but are still having the same problem.

If the problem is a conflict with other software it is up to you to find it. As long as our PC's conform to the system requirements and have the latest drivers the game should work on ALL PC's. I had a PC with this problem and I have just built a new PC that has no parts the same as the old and still get the same problem.

My PC is:

i7 860

GA P55A UD3R

4GB DDR3

WD Black HDD

Radeon HD5850 GPU

Creative Xfi Sound Card

Seasonic X 650w PSU

Avira AntiVir

Windows 7 64bit

With ALL the latest drivers

So, honestly, how is this problem my problem and not yours?? I guess I wont even get a response because you know it is SI's fault yet you don't know how to fix it. At least just admit that for crying out load!!!

[Matt ex SEGA]

Hey - I think we've covered that there's an issue that SI have tried to fix with the code - I believe patch 10.2 has fixed a lot of the issues that were being reported.

However - there's a lot of assumption that every crash is to do with the game, and it's not - I've tried to make sure people have done the obvious stuff that'll avoid crashes - I'd hate for people to not be playing the game because of a hardware problem that they could fix themselves. I'm not technical but I've seen these fixes work for some people so I think it's worth repeating them.

So - you've rebuilt your PC - have you started a new savegame? Are you running a massive number of leagues as that probably won't help - are you using the latest patch? Have you updated DirectX and Java? I even saw one person reporting that if you tick the "enable data collection" preference it improves the memory usage issue, although I have no idea how that would work. It'd be worth, if you're willing, posting in the technical issues forum to see if you can get some help from there.

Cheers

Matt

[dsggti]

So - you've rebuilt your PC - have you started a new savegame?Matt

Yes, many times.

Are you running a massive number of leagues as that probably won't help - are you using the latest patch?Matt

I have one nation and four leagues (England - League Two up) with a small database.

Have you updated DirectX and Java?Matt

Yes, I have the latest Directx 11 and latest java update.

I even saw one person reporting that if you tick the "enable data collection" preference it improves the memory usage issue, although I have no idea how that would work.Matt

Tried that, no good.

It'd be worth, if you're willing, posting in the technical issues forum to see if you can get some help from there.Matt

Tried this as well, several times. There is an obvious problem that you need to accept for the problem to be fixed. Sure, it isn't happening on everyone's computer so, in my opinion, there is a conflict with hardware or software but that is up to Sega/SI to find and fix not us. My PC is more then capable of running this game easily, according to your system requirements. If you check the technical forum section the latest patch still hasn't fixed the problem for a lot of people.

[LaPucelle]

My game was crashing with my sound switched to 'on' in the preferences page. I fixed in 10.1 by replacing the original sound files by SI with a third party sound pack.

Now that 10.2 is out, the old problem is back again. Even the third party sound pack can't prevent the game crashing. This is simply... awful. I'm contemplating giving my FM2010 away since no one is bothered to try to fix it. I paid $ to get a full game, not a half-baked game without sound.

Switching the game sound off isn't a 'fix', its just a temporary measure while I'm waiting for you guys to fix the problem. So please do not think that you can brush us off by saying switching the game sound will 'fix' the problem. It's been 3 months by the way.

[pingumark]

However - there's a lot of assumption that every crash is to do with the game, and it's not

You're not technical, so I won't be too hard on you for this. I am a software development manager, and I am telling you - Good software should never crash. If you pick too many leagues, it should tell you, and not let you. If you have insufficient memory, or graphics card etc, it should tell you this too. If you're running an old version of Java, again it should tell you, and either install latest Java for you, or point you to the website to download latest Java.

I have a new MacBook Pro, running only one league, no modifications, running latest patch. About 50% of the time during a match I get dumped the desktop. This product simply wasn't tested sufficiently. By the number of posts, I'd judge that the majority of people that own the game are running into the same problems. Remember, not everybody posts on the forum.

[chile_paul]

The latest suggestion from the Bugs forum is to go to the Preferences screen and turn off the "Enable Data Collection" option.

A number of people have tried this (including myself) and it seems to have signficantly improved / resolved the problem.

[deep64blue]

You're not technical, so I won't be too hard on you for this. I am a software development manager, and I am telling you - Good software should never crash.

Point me to one piece of PC software that never crashes?? On higher end systems like mainframes you will get far more robust degradation but even then you occasionally get crashes. As well as that if something goes wrong on hardware, like you have some bad memory on your RAM chip there is nothing the software can do.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Yes, many times.

I have one nation and four leagues (England - League Two up) with a small database.

Yes, I have the latest Directx 11 and latest java update.

Tried that, no good.

Tried this as well, several times. There is an obvious problem that you need to accept for the problem to be fixed. Sure, it isn't happening on everyone's computer so, in my opinion, there is a conflict with hardware or software but that is up to Sega/SI to find and fix not us. My PC is more then capable of running this game easily, according to your system requirements. If you check the technical forum section the latest patch still hasn't fixed the problem for a lot of people.

I said already - SI are aware of the issue. They've released a couple of patches to try and work round it. If they're still not working for you then I can only apologise and ask for your patience - I believe they're still looking into this and trying to provide a solution.

LaPucelle - sorry you're struggling but the only suggestion I have is to check that you have the latest sound card drivers. Seems like an odd crash (not seen it reported previously). Have you done that already?

Pingumark - seems like solid advice. I think SI plan to look into making this easier for people next year but really need to let them talk that one out as I don't think I'd do it justice.

[Hassy28]

The latest suggestion from the Bugs forum is to go to the Preferences screen and turn off the "Enable Data Collection" option.

A number of people have tried this (including myself) and it seems to have signficantly improved / resolved the problem.

Has it actually stopped the game crash issue mate?

[deep64blue]

By the number of posts, I'd judge that the majority of people that own the game are running into the same problems. Remember, not everybody posts on the forum.

No but the people posting are more likely to be having problems, with 300+ posts and a very quiet helpline I'd suggest it's a very small minority who are having problems. I know quite a few people who play FM and none of come here or are aware of the problem.

It's incredibly frustrating if you are being affected but to suggest it's a majority is way wide of the mark.

[pingumark]

No but the people posting are more likely to be having problems, with 300+ posts and a very quiet helpline I'd suggest it's a very small minority who are having problems. I know quite a few people who play FM and none of come here or are aware of the problem.

It's incredibly frustrating if you are being affected but to suggest it's a majority is way wide of the mark.

Check out the thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=161196&page=16 in the FM 2010 bugs forum. 1546 posts. Generally, you can expect about 10% of people that are having problems to actually report them.

Yes, I know that all software can crash, I was simply pointing out that Matt's response about things to check (java version etc) should be checked by the software, they should not lead to crashes. If there is a crash, 99% it is the fault of the software, not the user (like you said, faulty hardware would be an exception).

[deep64blue]

Check out the thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=161196&page=16 in the FM 2010 bugs forum. 1546 posts. Generally, you can expect about 10% of people that are having problems to actually report them.

1546 posts, but not all by different people and including SI staff etc, lets be generous and assume 1000 people in that thread, we know that SI sell more than 100,000 copies so at most 10% of users are experiencing this problem (accepting your 1 in 10 figure as valid). Sucks if you're one of them and still a big problem but nowhere near a majority.

[RSCA4Ever]

The latest suggestion from the Bugs forum is to go to the Preferences screen and turn off the "Enable Data Collection" option.

A number of people have tried this (including myself) and it seems to have signficantly improved / resolved the problem.

Has it actually stopped the game crash issue mate?

For me it did fix the crash dumps, yes.

I also play it in windowed mode now and updated my drivers and Java, anyways one of these (or all combined) suggestions did fix it for me.

Weird thing was I only started to have crash dumps since 10.2 patch came out, vanilla and 10.1 worked fine for me. (I have the Steam version btw)

Clicking the tactics button while in a match was a gamble since that patch came out, but not anymore it seems... I just played about 14 hours straight without a crash.

[larsbb]

I have just uploaded a zip-file to the ftp-account. The name of the file is FM Crash.zip and it contains the game, the crash file and a txt-file explaining the steps required to take in order for it to crash.

Could you have a look at it please? Thanks

[Barkermush]

I have noticed that certian graphics can cause crash dumps on this FM. Recently i kept clicking on a certian players profile and every time i clicked on his profile FM crashed and give a crash dump.

I finally found out the Unique ID number for the player that FM kept crashing on when i clicked on his profile from a friend.

So i went into my " MEGAPACK Cut out" and found the image for that Unique ID number and found that the image for this player was a 'JPEG' image and all the overs pictures are 'PNG'.

So i changed the file type from JPEG to PNG and all is fine now i can click on the players profile without a crash dump.

I was also having the same problem everytime i clicked on Lazio's information screen it just crashed and created a crash dump.

So i checked the Italian/Lazio Kits which i have downloaded, and found that the Lazio home kit was a 'JPEG' file and all the other kits are 'PNG'. So i deleted the home kit and removed it from the Config file, and now i can click on Lazio's information screen without FM crashing.

So to be safe i went through all of my downloaded graphics, and i found few other 'JPEG' images in the Megapack Cut Out face pack i had downloaded and removed or replaced them.

[Burscoughnian]

I have noticed that certian graphics can cause crash dumps on this FM.

Correct. Just had my first EVER CrashDump when clicking on "Cambridge C". Googled it to see if this had happened before but found nothing so ran FM again and clicked Cambridge C again. Again, crashed. Ran a search on PC to find that my Cambridge City stadium background was completely white and seemingly corrupt.

Replaced with a new pic on www.flickr.com and voila! Working fine again now.

[Sloppy Giuseppe]

Anyone experiencing the crash whilst in-match I would suggest turning off your sounds - we're looking into this and we believe there might be an issue in this area. Thanks for your patience, hopefully we'll be able to get to the bottom of this issue.

Hi, my game gives a crash dump on Jan 1 2011 and I can't go any further. I'm not using sound and have tried holidaying.

Lots of people appear to be having so many problems with this game. Did you test it properly or were you aware of these problems but released the game anyway?

Can I get a refund from you please? I activated the game through steam.

[Tsory]

I have noticed that certian graphics can cause crash dumps on this FM. Recently i kept clicking on a certian players profile and every time i clicked on his profile FM crashed and give a crash dump.

I finally found out the Unique ID number for the player that FM kept crashing on when i clicked on his profile from a friend.

So i went into my " MEGAPACK Cut out" and found the image for that Unique ID number and found that the image for this player was a 'JPEG' image and all the overs pictures are 'PNG'.

So i changed the file type from JPEG to PNG and all is fine now i can click on the players profile without a crash dump.

I was also having the same problem everytime i clicked on Lazio's information screen it just crashed and created a crash dump.

So i checked the Italian/Lazio Kits which i have downloaded, and found that the Lazio home kit was a 'JPEG' file and all the other kits are 'PNG'. So i deleted the home kit and removed it from the Config file, and now i can click on Lazio's information screen without FM crashing.

So to be safe i went through all of my downloaded graphics, and i found few other 'JPEG' images in the Megapack Cut Out face pack i had downloaded and removed or replaced them.

THANKS dude.. i noticed that a player face (ortega) was making my game crash!! And when i checked was beacause it was .JPG !!!

[Mr Sandman]

same here a pic was causing my game to crash

[grade]

Not wanting to barge in.

The fact is despite being minority of the people having crashes, it is from memory the game that had the most crashes to date.

Not saying the game is crap. None at all. The thing is something has escaped SI eyes that are left them scratching their heads.

I hope that Partch 3 resolves this issues so that people can enjoy the game. If not, well I would say that SI would look heavily on this.

[Sir_Liam]

Mine has just crashed on patch 2 when I went to click on a player's name during a match. I was under the assumption this wouldn't happen anymore with 10.2, but obviously it is still an issue.

I also think I read somewhere this is nothing to do with memory or drivers. Certainly this is the only point my game has crashed at.

[Allies]

I experienced a few crashes, but (if my memory serves me right) only one of them happened during a match and all of the crashes happened while I was playing on FM10's 10.1.1 patch. I am now playing on the 10.2.0 patch and I haven't experienced a single crash for at least a week.

"Enable data collection" has always been ticked(and enabled) on my game.

For reference sake, my specs are:

AMD Phenom II X2 545

4GB DDR2 800

XFX HD 4870 512MB

Running on Windows 7 Ultimate - 32bit.

[danielfagannn]

Crash Dump has wasted me £40:@mad i was playing for about 5 days happily then wen i went off and on the 6th day i went to load the game but it said it couldn't so a started a new game then it came up crash error now i can't even play for and couple of hours any help

[Danny0101]

Does this actually work?

More views?

[supermackem123]

Hello everyone, this is my very first post and i only decided to join because i simply have to get my anger out. I have been playing football manager for years got every single version with no massive problems. I got the game for xmas and have been on for hours every single day and has been working fine until 3 days ago, i got the dreaded crash dump error message and i had not saved for a while, (my own fault i know but should you really have to save every single match just incase a game crashes?) So i thought little of it and hoped it was just a one off, i loaded again and within 10 minutes the crash dump occured again, and again and again, its now at the point where im quite literally on for less than 5 minutes and its crashing. Every time it happens im getting more and more wound up. I have a very capable computer quite high spec and have went through every single post of this thread for possible solutions, my game preference is on windowed and the skin cache option is unticked. Im sick of going into the preferences and changing settings without no effect at all. I have updated the game and im very angry I feel like i have been robbed of my hard earned money! People are suggesting playing with no sound on and not in 3d match view!!! i may aswel stick to playing 2007 if thats the case! if i pay £30 then i should not have to make drastic changes to the game. My database is small and i only have 4 major divisions of the english leagues (prem,champ,league1,league2) so i cant find any reason as to why my game is doing this. After reading many posts it seems this is a common problem and people imo have got every right to feel angered by this faulty game. Yes not everyone has these problems but i would have a guess that around 15% of people are having these problems which simply isnt good enough! I love this game and have put hours and hours into getting my Stockport team into the championship with a great team (Vincent Pericard bargain signing) so im honestly gutted about this

I cant be bothered to start a new game for the same problems to occur

Sorry for such a long and boring post but im so frustrated

[elephant man]

never had a problem before until today when I started getting the dreaded crash dump...I got one during the game and another one when I was surfing the net lol what the hell is going on?

[N1ck]

I had approximately 5/6 crash dumps in 10.1 but since 10.2 came out I've had zero crash dumps. I've hardly got a state of the art laptop either.

[Boris Dollar]

Look at what happened with EA's FIFA, after several years lossing sales to Konami's Pro Evo series they finally pulled their finger out and came back with a top qaulity product that won the masses back!

SEGA YOU HAVE JUST BEEN CRASH DUMPED!!!

Actually, FIFA 10 is absolutely rubbish. Yes, good game, but some bugs that are simply unbelievable, such as its impossible to sign players in manager mode (literally impossible) and EA are not doing a single thing about it.

SI are angels in comparison; at least they log the problems and try to fix them.

[Boris Dollar]

Sorry, totally forgot to add my bit about crash dumps. I've was quite vocal about it in one thread, as i was having a terrible time. However, i have to admit I transported my steam account and save game to another laptop, and i've yet to get a crash dump yet. On my other laptop (of similar quality) i couldnt even get through a day or two (in game time) without crashes.

[weezekid]

Well I never had any crashes till I used the 10.2 update

Been playing FM/CM since 1993 and every single year I've had problems with it. I'm no computer wiz, I just love football. It shouldn't be this hard to make a blooming game load properly without fault.

[Flukey]

Does anyone else have a crash on 1st December 2019?

I have never had any crashes, but now my game won't go past 1 December 2019. Is anyone else having the same issue? Is this a "known issue"? Is there a short term work around?

[MackemKrisC]

I have crash dumps issue -which now makes my game completly unplayable.....not happy

[dz47]

have never had a crash dump until now. Playign 10.2 since release and now the dumps have started. Keeps happening at the same point, at half time in my second frienldy of the first season. Trying all the suggested 'fixes' now. I really hope they work!

[Vic Taylor]

Actually, FIFA 10 is absolutely rubbish. Yes, good game, but some bugs that are simply unbelievable, such as its impossible to sign players in manager mode (literally impossible) and EA are not doing a single thing about it.

SI are angels in comparison; at least they log the problems and try to fix them.

I don't find FIFA 10 rubbish. Neither do I find the signing bug you're talking about. The only bug I've seen is the pathetic excuses for handball in the ME.

FIFA 10 is a great game.

[themadhatter43]

I will never ever be able to understand how a product that clearly is not working properly, should have reached the shelves of the stores? Surely the Trading Standards should be brought in here, as clearly this game does not do what is says on the box - ie: fully working product. Why is it that in every incarnation of FM, customers have to wait for at least THREE patches before it becomes any semblance of a fully working product?

If this was any other company doing this, then surely they would have been looked into a long time ago, as customers are clearly losing money on a product that clearly does not work. Why is this being allowed to happen? After all there are laws to protect the paying customer from things like this happening. The amount of people that have complained about this product not working, about crashes, and the game closing down, etc etc are such that the company itself surely needs looking into? I am sure if people complained to the Trading Standards, they would be very interested to find out what exactly is going wrong year after year after year with this particular product.

[baker.simon]

I will never ever be able to understand how a product that clearly is not working properly, should have reached the shelves of the stores? Surely the Trading Standards should be brought in here, as clearly this game does not do what is says on the box - ie: fully working product. Why is it that in every incarnation of FM, customers have to wait for at least THREE patches before it becomes any semblance of a fully working product?

If this was any other company doing this, then surely they would have been looked into a long time ago, as customers are clearly losing money on a product that clearly does not work. Why is this being allowed to happen? After all there are laws to protect the paying customer from things like this happening. The amount of people that have complained about this product not working, about crashes, and the game closing down, etc etc are such that the company itself surely needs looking into? I am sure if people complained to the Trading Standards, they would be very interested to find out what exactly is going wrong year after year after year with this particular product.

Actually I think you'll find your wrong on the trading standards issue, and the patching gets them round it as they are taking steps to solve the problem!

[themadhatter43]

As I have said in my previous statement posted, people really need to begin to complain to the Trading Standards Office. If SI, are investigated and found to be taking money for something that clearly is not working properly, they will be FINED, and their license to trade could be revoked. There are just too many people now with problems concerning this so-called 'working product', and it is not good enough. This is happening every year now so clearly there is something wrong.

If this company and the stores are prepared to take our hard-earned money for a none-working product, then customers have EVERY RIGHT to report SI, and the stores involved in selling this product. if no one complains to the right people, then NOTHING will be done. Trading Standards is our next port of call people.

[themadhatter43]

Actually I think you'll find your wrong on the trading standards issue, and the patching gets them round it as they are taking steps to solve the problem!

No, not wrong at all. A product once it reaches the shelves of the stores HAS TO BE IN FULLY WORKING ORDER, or the customer HAS the RIGHT to get their money back.

[themadhatter43]

I am having a got at SI its a shambles, i feel they shoul be paying me compensation or sumat. If i bought any other product from any other company a problem would be fixed straight away but somehow SI think the can just sit about and monitor it so as to fix it in the next patch, the next patch should be out RIGHT NOW as I have bought faulty goods.

It is faulty goods, therefore you as a paying customer have EVERY RIGHT to demand your money back for a none working product. No product, once it reaches the shelves of the stores, should be faulty, that is the law of the country. If companies are found to be selling faulty goods, and they know about this {which they surely do because nearly every incarnation of FM now is faulty when it reaches the shelves}, then they can be FINED, and their license to trade could be revoked by the TRADING STANDARDS OFFICE.

It does not matter whether there are patches coming on the way, the fact remains that they, {SI, SEGA and the stores in question}, are selling faulty goods to the paying public. So therefore, with this in mind, baring in mind that they have previous records of this happening, people should write letters of complaint to the TRADING STANDARDS OFFICE who will investigate SI, SEGA, and the stores selling this none working {or half-working} product.

[baker.simon]

It is faulty goods, therefore you as a paying customer have EVERY RIGHT to demand your money back for a none working product. No product, once it reaches the shelves of the stores, should be faulty, that is the law of the country. If companies are found to be selling faulty goods, and they know about this {which they surely do because nearly every incarnation of FM now is faulty when it reaches the shelves}, then they can be FINED, and their license to trade could be revoked by the TRADING STANDARDS OFFICE.

It does not matter whether there are patches coming on the way, the fact remains that they, {SI, SEGA and the stores in question}, are selling faulty goods to the paying public. So therefore, with this in mind, baring in mind that they have previous records of this happening, people should write letters of complaint to the TRADING STANDARDS OFFICE who will investigate SI, SEGA, and the stores selling this none working {or half-working} product.

Define faulty. My copy works. How far have you got into a save?

[deep64blue]

No, not wrong at all. A product once it reaches the shelves of the stores HAS TO BE IN FULLY WORKING ORDER, or the customer HAS the RIGHT to get their money back.

Many copies work just fine though so its not as simple as you are trying to make out.

[roykela]

Many copies work just fine though so its not as simple as you are trying to make out.

Doesn't automatically mean that all copies made are good copies.

If one item works for some it doesn't mean that all the items are in an acceptable condition.

If they're planning on patches for the product, which they do every year, it means they know it's faulty.

They basically know that it isn't up to the standard it's supposed to be. If they believed it was the way it was supposed to be, then planned and scheduled patches wouldn't be a "fact".

I know it's more detailed and complicated than that, but it's just a point of view in a nutshell.