A Closer Look at Motivation.

[SFraser]

There seem to be a lot of Guides on Teamtalks, Press Conferences and Interaction that describe what to say and when to say it, but not why you are saying these things or what infact it is that you are doing. There also seems to be a lot of discussion regarding a "badly broken and gimmicky chore" that simply doesn't do whatever it is supposed to do. While I won't deny that, again, we have a feature that is both rather powerful and rather vague, I do reject the claims that it is "broken and gimmicky". Of all the fundamental aspects of Football Management missing in FM over the years, motivating your players, maintaining their focus and turning games around with inspired man management techniques has always been completely absent, untill now. The new Motivation system of FM09 is not vast, elaborate, colourful and it does not produce a Mourinho-esque atmosphere. It is very often counter-intuitive, and many would say it is tedious, perhaps fairly. What it does do is deal with short term influence of man management and long term maintainance of form, and what it is is a functional, powerful system that is completely and fundamentaly relevant to a Football Management game.

I do not have the raw data from detailed analysis of longterm testing to describe in precise numbers and precise mechanical function exactly how motivation influences players, but I am sure we can all agree that Complacent and Nervous Centrebacks concede goals while Fired Up Strikers punish mistakes. We can also all agree that Teamtalks can turn games around at Half Time as well as destroy Morale in the dressing room at Full Time. From simply paying attention to man management, motivation and teamtalks/interaction throughout the course of my current save I feel I have an understanding of the fundamental function of the system, and I would like to detail my interpretation of this new system to help enlighten some who have no idea where to begin, and to encourage discussion to reveal the true and accurate nature of this system.

Motivation and Morale

The two most fundamental aspects of man management within a football club, keeping players happy and keeping players performing. Every single method of interacting with players and opponents outside of tactics has a potential influence on both Motivation and Morale. The entire system of interaction, whether that is teamtalks, press conferences, Player/Manager Interaction is designed to manipulate, control and influence these two fundamental variables. Any change to Motivation can have a dramatic effect on a players short term Performances and his Morale, and any change to Morale can have a dramatic effect on his longterm happiness, longterm motivation and the long term stability of your club.

Motivation

The will to perform. I do not know exactly how motivation influences players, but if I were to guess I would say that motivation affects Mental Attributes, with "Complacent/Nervous" levels of motivation have a powerful reducing affect on Mental Attributes and "Looking Motivated/Fired Up!" having a powerful increasing affect on Mental Attributes. Have a Nervous Centreback competing against a Fired Up! Striker with high Determination and you have a recipe for last minute equalisers. Have the same Striker up against a "Complacent" Goalkeeper and you can expect the only chance he gets to go in. Motivation is a potent weapon in FM09, for both yourself and the opposition. It can also become an enemy if you lose control of your players motivation, or if in your attempts to maintain motivation you destroy Morale. Motivation is difficult to judge outside of match conditions, but my experience of the system leads me to believe that the PR system in a players Profile screen is an indication of increased or decreased motivation for the next match.

I count six different levels of motivation that are; Looking Complacent, Playing Okay, Playing with Confidence, Looking Motivated, Fired Up! Playing Nervously. All other phrases seen in the Motivation screen are descriptions of general performances after a player has been playing for a certain period of time. Things like Bossing the Midfield means high motivation in combination with Man of the Match ratings from Central Midfield. They exist to give some character to the Motivation screen as well as inform a manager of how that level of Motivation has affected that players performances in that specific Match.

Morale

A players Happiness and Comfort. I say comfort because of how easy it is for players with high Morale to become Complacent. Morale is a vital factor in man management as it allows you to control the dressing room. The higher the Morale of a player or players then the lower the impact of negative circumstances or negative decisions or actions and events that players do not like. Keeping Morale high gives the manager greater leeway in his actions and decisions, and it apparently works to reduce the amount of time or severity of player concerns and unhappiness. It also makes it less likely for problems and unhappiness to spread throughout the squad. Perhaps the most important function of Morale in FM09 is that it determines the severity of Motivational techniques and actions you can "get away with". The higher the Morale of players the firmer a stance you can take with them whenever the need and possibility arise, before profoundly negatively affecting not just one player but the harmoney of the entire squad.

Personell Relationships

Relationships deserve a mention in this thread because of the impact they have on man management and a squad. Good relationships between players, and players and staff increase their "agreement" and low their "disagreement". By this I mean that two players are less likely to fall out or dislike each other, but are more likely to share complaints and greviences. A player that has a good relationship with his manager is more likely to respond as desired to praise and criticism, without responding badly and becoming upset or unhappy. In short the more good relationship between players in the squad, the tighter the squad and the greater the influence of each player on the rest. In good times this is a very good thing, in bad times this can be a very bad thing. The more good relationships between players and manager the greater the positive response or positive reaction from players to the manager, and the lower the negative response or reaction. If a player likes you then you can abuse him mercilessly to get maximum performances for minimum unhappiness and concern, but you still cannot do it constantly.

Relationship Between Motivation and Morale

There is a clear relationship between Motivation and Morale, although I cannot detail it in precision. There is the example where winning multiple consecutive football matches will increase Morale, but at the same time reduce Motivation, leading the Assistant Manager to comment on "Players thinking they can win by turning up". Ruthless teamtalks can dramaticly increase Motivation, but lead to Slt concerns about "Unhappiness regarding Teamtalks" and reduced Morale. There are likely to be many other examples, but these are the two most obvious ones.

In the above case there is a clear inverse relationship between Motivation and Morale. One goes up, the other goes down. There is also the example where praising a player through the media will improve his Morale and encourage him to try and perform better, thereby increasing his Motivation. These are two different relationships between the same two variables, influenced only by the managers chosen method of interaction and chosen interaction option. It is clear that every method of interacting with players and opponents as a manager has an affect on Morale, Motivation or both for certain players under certain conditions. As I don't have the raw mechanics to hand the only advice I can give for discerning these relationships and effects is through trial and error over a period of time.

Interaction and Man Management

Interaction and Man Management is where you come into play in harnassing all the available interaction systems and options in your quest to Increase Motivation and Increase Morale. This is where the ambiguity of the Interaction System and the common sense approach of the average Virtual Manager come into conflict. A common scenario questioned around these particular forums goes something like this:

"I am 2-0 up at Half Time, surely I should tell my squad that I am Pleased?"

That is a very logical, common sense conclusion that would seem to come straight out of Real World football dressing rooms, and to be completely honest SI should have realised this, and made the system clearer in principle. Unfortunately this is not how the system works. What you want to say at Half Time when you are 2-0 up is whatever will increase Motivation to match or surpass your Opponents Second Half Performance, while minimising the negative impact on Morale of your Teamtalk. That is how the system works. Forget about the words you are using as they are completely irrelevant. All that matters is the Motivation reaction and the Morale consequences. If Wayne Rooney doesn't seem to mind you insulting him to his face and always responds with an 8 or higher rating then what do you care? Lash into him for all you are worth.

I will say it again as this is the fundamental function and gameplay of the entire system of man management, motivation and morale.

Forget about the words you are using as they are completely irrelevant. All that matters is the Motivation reaction and the Morale consequences.

In fairness to SI this is all that managers like Sir Alex Ferguson care about when plugging in the "hairdryer" so in the context of simulating raw managerial function they have got this mechanic spot on, albeit very few people seem to have spotted it which is a problem not just for enjoyment and gameplay but also for criticism and reputation.

Previous/Next Opposition Comment

A minefield of negativity that I personally avoid like the plague. I have very rarely if ever managed to produce a positive response from my own team and demoralise the opposition by using this feature, so I no longer try.

Player Interaction

This is a key feature in my opinion. It has the potential to dramatically influence Motivation, Morale, Relationships and Individual Player Issues if the manager judges the options wisely, and the situation of the player and the wider club correctly. Perhaps the most Potent function of this system is the ability to form a "Favoured Personell" relationship between manager and player which has a profound impact on the power, regularity and severity of the Motivation and Morale manipulating techniques that a manager can utilise.

Press Conference

This is a direct means of influencing the Motivation of your players prior to the Next Match. It is probably best to imagine this system as a less powerful Teamtalk given the night before a match that will only influence a few members of the squad on average. If you use this system in conjuction with the two above at the right times prior to a match you can have a rather impressive impact on the Pre-Match Motivation of your entire Squad.

Teamtalks

Quite simply the meat of the entire system. Teamtalks are easilly the most influential and most consequential aspects of the entire Motivation/Morale system. Many people talk about the "right and wrong" halftime teamtalk and about how you can turn around a 3-0 deficit at halftime with the "cracked" teamtalk. These are clearly people that have given the wrong pre-match teamtalk, have to cover their tracks at fulltime with praise to prevent a collapse in morale and in doing so provoke complacency for the start of the next match and so on. Eventually such a reactive system rather than a proactive system is going to come undone, and come undone badly where the manager is forced to praise a crushing defeat, or rip to shreds a squad that is on the borderline of hating him.

The key to understanding teamtalks is to understand that each Teamtalk relates to the previous teamtalk, and that using the same teamtalk on the same players at the same stage of the match in successive games will diminish its effects. Each Teamtalk is vitally important for getting the Motivation right for the coming situation, whether that is the First Half, the Second Half or the preparation and rest period for the next Match. What you said in one teamtalk, and how the players reacted to that teamtalk will directly influence what you can say in the next teamtalk and how they will react to that teamtalk. Throughout every single teamtalk the fundamental issue of sole importance is the Motivation Reaction and the Morale Consequences. Each Teamtalk, Pre-Match, Half-Time, Post Match differs slightly in its importance and relationship to Motivation and Morale. At Half Time Motivation is usually far more important than Morale, whereas at Full Time the opposite is true.

Pre-Match Teamtalk

The key issue in the Pre-Match teamtalk is making sure players are not Complacent, without sending them out Nervous. Ideally you want them to go out Confident, Motivated or if you are really good at this then Fired Up! It is a fine line between positive inspiration and Complacency or Nervousness, and the factors that go into determining whether a match is viewed with apprehension or desire depends upon multiple factors. Early at season start is a good time to observe the power of Pre-Match teamtalks as players are often naturally Complacent or Nervous. Whatever Teamtalk strategies worked for you at the end of last season are likely to backfire at the start of the New Season. A top four side from last season that went out in the final 8 games demanding victory from themselves and crushing the opposition are likely to buckle with nerves at the same demands at the start of the new season, or go out completely ambivelant thinking they have obviously already won.

As you get further into the season then the Motivation and Post Match teamtalk from the last game become ever increasingly important factors in the Pre-Match teamtalk. The nerves should be gone by now, or else they are likely to be rife and causing massive problems throughout the squad, and each Pre-Match teamtalk becomes an excercise in improving or maintaining Motivation from the last match without provoking Nervousness and Complacency. At all times throughout the game Nervousness and Complacency are the fundamental concerns of the Pre-Match teamtalk, but the actual conditions that produce them will change as the season develops, and so your teamtalk will have to adapt to take these new and changing influences into account. Relax The Result Will Come may evolve into Expect a Performance or Expect a Win or Pick Up Where You Left Off! but always make sure that it is the right teamtalk for the player in question, his prior motivation and performances, and his current opposition.

Half Time Teamtalk

The Half Time teamtalk is perhaps the easiest one to gauge in terms of Motivation reaction, simply because you have the precise data on a players current Motivation to hand. Where it is difficult to manage is in the fact that the opposition will almost always come out in the Second Half motivated higher than the first half, and you are either going to have to match them or surpass them, which requires that you provoke a response from your players, which in turn carries with it a negative Morale penalty. If your First Half performance was good you may not need to provoke much of a reaction and will incur a minor morale penalty. If you First Half performance was poor you will need drastic action and this will come at a cost you will have to pay later on.

In a One-Off game that is going as expected there is rarely a better teamtalk than "You Have Faith". Showing faith in your players is a great boost to both motivation and morale. The problem with this Teamtalk is that overuse destroys its potency and you are left with a dud weapon that is ignored and has no effect, and Complacent or Nervous or Underperforming players you must either Praise or Criticise to provoke a reaction.

The key to Half Time Teamtalks, in my personal opinion, is to err on the side of firmness and severity, while paying careful attention to Nervous or Complacent players. It is vital to highlight the key players in both your tactical setup and in your squad relationships and influence, and use these players as the fulcrums around which a superior Second Half performance is constructed. Your strikers may be paying poor but that could be because your playmaker is Complacent. You could tell all three that you "Have Faith" but if it doesn't jarr your Playmaker into action you have just wasted a potent weapon for the next match for zero increased performances. Far better in this occasion, in my opinion, to ask your slightly underperforming Strikers for more in the second half and fire a rocket up the backside of your playmaker.

Full Time Teamtalk

The Full Time Teamtalk has two key aspects. It is context dependant as to which is the most important, but they are Avoiding Complacency for the next match and Repairing Morale Damage from Half Time. If you have crushed the ego's of multiple players in your side at half time then it is unlikely you can avoid Complacency next game without reaping a reduction in Morale between now and then. Full Time is when you have to pay the price for your Half Time teamtalk, and decide whether that price is Morale or Motivation.

[ham_aka_stam]

WOW, I think I'll read that when I'm home, will edit this post when I do though.

Very thorough, and as always, if someone comes in here looking to find out what to say when, they will be disappointed. But if they want to understand how it works better and give themselves more of a chance when making their own decisions then they've come to the right place.

Good effort.

[PhroX]

I've only had time for a glance through, but it looks great.

[ZdlR]

I view next opponent comments as only important for crunch ties in a season. Examples would be cup finals, title / relegation influencing six-pointers, derbies, etc.

Nice to see this theory formalised as it has elicited better motivation and morale from my players in general. It is important to note that some players are average when it comes to stats, but they are such good characters that it's advisable to keep them around because they make up for technical deficiencies with attitude and work ethic. The inverse is more commonly seen, where a gifted player is a workshy fop who turns up only when their contract is up for renewal. *cough*Viduka*cough*

[Magnakai Haaskivi]

Great write up on something I've been wondering about.

Question: Did you put the motivation levels in order (from low to high) in your "Motivation" section? If so, I'm wondering why "Playing Nervously" is over "Playing with Confidence"; if not, where does "Playing Nervously" fit into the equation?

[ZdlR]

I'd say 'playing nervously' was 2nd worst to 'playing without confidence'.

[SFraser]

Great write up on something I've been wondering about.

Question: Did you put the motivation levels in order (from low to high) in your "Motivation" section? If so, I'm wondering why "Playing Nervously" is over "Playing with Confidence"; if not, where does "Playing Nervously" fit into the equation?

I did put Playing Nervously ahead of Fired Up on purpose, as I view nervous playing as the negative consequence of over-motivation rather than under-motivation which is Complacency.

I'd say 'playing nervously' was 2nd worst to 'playing without confidence'.

I may have missed one or two.

[Joor]

Always a pleasure to read your posts SFraser

[SFraser]

Always a pleasure to read your posts SFraser

My pleasure. I would have thought there would have been more response to a theorem on such an apparently controversial issue.

[lam]

He's doing it!!!!!!!! He's going for a full guide !!!!!!! hahaha.

How long till we see all of this in one post damn it!!!!!

8O)

Big fan of your work......

ps. we must catch up on training at some point. I have not re-read your post in a long time, but I tailor all my training around the bar charts now!

LAM

[Magnakai Haaskivi]

Is there any relationship between a player with high influence having high motivation (or, more dangerously, a player with high influence having low motivation) on the performance of the rest of the team? Because it would seem logical that there would. Say, for instance, that "Midfielder A" is your captain and is having an off game; rather than bolstering the play of the rest of the team, would he drag them down?

If so, than it might be worth taking him off for the end of a game based strictly on his inability to motivate...especially if your vice-captain is having a fantastic game.

[SFraser]

Is there any relationship between a player with high influence having high motivation (or, more dangerously, a player with high influence having low motivation) on the performance of the rest of the team?

Yes I am sure there is a relationship between motivation and influence although I have not done the required testing to prove or disprove this opinion. I have observed improvements in motivation and performance of players that do not noticeably react to my teamtalk themselves but seem to respond to a dramatic increase or decrease in the motivation of key influential players.

There is one other aspect of influence in combination with motivation that does not deal with the influence attribute directly. That is the influence of key players performances on teamplay, how much they offer themselves for passes and generally play well in their positions. If one player is having a poor game but the team around him is playing well, this can slowly improve his motivation and performances throughout a half.

I believe that this "targetted effect" upon key players, key either in actual influence attribute or influence upon other players through actions and activities, is a key issue to look out for at half time both in judging how good or how bad a player is actually playing, and in judging the best way to improve his performances and motivation.

As I said in my first post you may not have to say much directly to X player to improve his motivation, instead you may need to get the key man that plays near him to buck up his ideas and help him out more. Consider for example the impact of a poor performance from your playmaker upon the fortunes, ratings and motivation of your entire front line. Rather than upsetting a sulky striker, you could perhaps achieve superior results from speaking positively to him and ripping into a winger or midfielder that will not only take the punishment but respond appropriately.

He's doing it!!!!!!!! He's going for a full guide !!!!!!! hahaha.

How long till we see all of this in one post damn it!!!!!

I don't know about that. I don't think anyone would have the patients to read it, nor would I have the patients to respond to all the valid criticism. It's a great game and I enjoy discussing it, and if there isn't much to discuss then I enjoy writing about it.

Big fan of your work......

ps. we must catch up on training at some point. I have not re-read your post in a long time, but I tailor all my training around the bar charts now!

Thanks. I think the training system is getting close to being as revealed as it possibly can get, and one of these days I will have to get around to rewriting the original post again.

[Magnakai Haaskivi]

Motivation is difficult to judge outside of match conditions, but my experience of the system leads me to believe that the PR system in a players Profile screen is an indication of increased or decreased motivation for the next match.

This makes sense and answers a question I was going to ask today. Last night, my Liverpool team played Stoke. The Stoke coach says ahead of the game that he really appreciates my methods, and when I checked his profile I saw that I was listed as one of his favored personnel. So I responded positively (I hope the best team wins). After the game, which I won, the coach said that he couldn't see anyone challenging me for the title (or something to that effect; I'm paraphrasing).

Four of my players had the "PR" next to them. Two responded badly, two responded well. When I checked what I'd done, the ones who'd responded badly were responding to his comment; they were agreeing that nobody could dethrone us. One of them was my centerback, who's been "Looking complacent" in games a lot lately; the other was my striker, who's not been performing particularly well.

On the other hand, the ones who'd reacted well to his statements were actually responding in the negative; they didn't feel like they should count their chickens before they hatch, so to speak.

What confused me was that the ones who'd responded badly were actually responding in agreement; they weren't mad (like they usually are after they've responded badly). Looking at this your way, though, it makes perfect sense; their "bad response" was probably a decrease in their motivation.

[ham_aka_stam]

Having studied sports psychology as part of my Sport and Exercise Science degree, I can say that this very loosely fits with some simple theories of motivation, arousal, happiness etc. In which case I must say well done to SI for actually including some real science in a computer game. Reading SFraser's posts recently has made me appreciate this game for what it really is. Very complex, and very rational, it's just a shame that most of it we have to figure out ourselves (or wait for someone else to post about it!).

[PhroX]

Since reading this, I've been paying much more attention to motivation. It's very interesting.

In a recent game away at my closest challengers, my team were awful first half and were lucky to go in only 1-0 down. I gave em the second harshest team talk, with a couple of idividual ones. Frankly, it didn't work. My team was still nearly all on red motivation. By the 60 minute mark, I was ready to throw on some subs in the hope of turning things round when suddenly I got a break. A cockup between their keeper and left back allowed my forward to slot home into an open goal. Instantly, my team went from nervous and lacking confidence, to a mix of oranage and green motivations. Our play measurably improved, and we quickly got a second, at which point all but two players got green motivation. We eventually went on to conceed an 89th minute wonder goal and get a draw (a decent result), but the effect of the two goals on my team's motivation was remarkable (yet totally believable).

Had the same in the next game. PLaynig a crap team, I obviously got the team talk wrong as nearly everyone was complacent. Poor play, until we scored from a corner. Then most everyone went to green motivation, and we dominated the rest of the game.

[Becanes]

I have a question. Do you always have to give a team talk or can you just say nothing?

[vasilli07]

When you are leading 2 goals or 3 goals in a 2 legged cup game, what team talks do you normally give your in your 2nd leg?

[Parat]

none ... it seems to work out anyway Just sub the players who look complacent

[XenoExclusive]

Uhh. What am I missing here? Where do I view these motivation comments while doing team talks??

[ballinisahabit]

In match day view, click match day info and tick 'your team' motivation.

[heathxxx]

My first action as a mod is to sticky this thread.

Good post SFraser and especially relevent after all the discussion in GQ about team-talks and motivation. Well done for taking it on.

[Flek]

Where do you find the motivation status? I can't find that

[SFraser]

My first action as a mod is to sticky this thread.

Good post SFraser and especially relevent after all the discussion in GQ about team-talks and motivation. Well done for taking it on.

Cheers. Hope it is accurate enough in principle to help some people out. Well done on your mod status by the way, good choice imo.

[taylorsmen]

Great thread and a cracking read (Y) will come in very handy,i may have to read it again a few times before it all sinks in tho

(Y)

[heathxxx]

Cheers. Hope it is accurate enough in principle to help some people out.

It's both a sensible guide, and a good topic for discussion, given there's a lot of people still can't get to grips with motivational issues in general.

[Zebedee77]

Superb piece of work SFraser.

One thing I still don't grasp though is whether the assistant manager's feedback on teamtalks reflects morale or motivational changes? Or both?

You highlight six 'motivation' markers, yet one sees a much more varied set of responses in the feedback which muddies the water for me, especially when there are two different reactions present at the same time eg "angry, seems confused". If this is just the morale altering, then fair enough but that leaves no way of checking motivation of a player prior to selecting him. I can't locate a way to find out a player's level of motivation prior to clicking 'submit team'. Am I missing something so obvious I can have a genuine Homer Simpson moment?

[SFraser]

One thing I still don't grasp though is whether the assistant manager's feedback on teamtalks reflects morale or motivational changes? Or both?

I think that the Assistant Managers feedback details the changes your teamtalk had on an individual, but I don't think it is as accurate on the motivational side as actually observing players motivation throughout the game.

The way I would interpret what is shown is that any kind of "nothing specific noted" or "didn't seem to be listening" means no major impact was recognised by the Assistant on either morale or motivation, but very often I have seen teamwide improvements in motivation in the second half with negligable feedback from the assistant. I think that like the Tactical Feedback system it is developed to trigger feedback at certain extremes, such as for example a clear improvement in morale or a dramatic improvement in motivation, whereas the teamtalks themselves can work at perhaps finer levels of detail.

I do think that the feedback deals with both motivation and morale but I do not think the feedback system is as sensitive to changes as the motivation display screen. This could be entireally down to the feedback system being filtered through the assistant attributes, but that is a guess.

You highlight six 'motivation' markers, yet one sees a much more varied set of responses in the feedback which muddies the water for me

Someone pointed out that their are seven. These markers come from the motivation display screen or the motivation widgit and although an opinion I think that the varied responses such as "Bossing the midfield" in that screen are indicators of the effect of motivation on performance later in the match. Playing Nervously becomes Having a Poor Game after about 60 minutes, or Had a Poor Game when substituted, if his performance ratings are also low.

especially when there are two different reactions present at the same time eg "angry, seems confused". If this is just the morale altering, then fair enough but that leaves no way of checking motivation of a player prior to selecting him.

"Angry, seems confused" is probably an indication of lowered motivation and lowered morale to the critical teamtalk you give. If you think about nervous being closer to high motivation than low motivation then you can understand that a critical teamtalk may fire a player up, or it can destroy their confidence. Think of it as attempting to apply "Fired Up!" motivation to a player. Depending on other factors he may become Motivated, Fired Up! or Nervous.

I can't locate a way to find out a player's level of motivation prior to clicking 'submit team'. Am I missing something so obvious I can have a genuine Homer Simpson moment?

That is ultimately the question. I stated in my post that motivation carries on from one match to the next, which is my conclusion from what I have observed but is still an assumption. Motivation may infact reset to some baseline value and I am misreading the factors influencing the motivation at kick-off. I think we can be fairly certain it is one of those options though.

[Zebedee77]

Thanks SFraser. Much to consider.

I've been working on the basis that 'doesn't seem to be listening' may be an indicator that you've overused certain team talks and need a change/rethink of approach.

Feedback being filtered through the AM's attributes would not surprise me.

That there is a 'motivation' widgit/screen is new to me - I've been relying on the text information ingame and the feedback from my AM. So I've been able to have my 'Homer Simpson' moment for the day, and will now look out for it during my next match.

One personal observation is that I've noticed in comments about 'opponents' or other managers and players a certain relationship between personality types and how they will 'generally' respond. However, there do exist exceptions (eg a 'balanced' personality tends to respond well to 'favourable' comments about other teams, whereas personalities which are more 'professional' tend to respond badly to the same comments). I don't play with the editor, although I do understand that 'personalities' are a text description based upon mental attributes, so perhaps there is a direct link there - although which comment players pick up on is an interesting one, and may well reflect your relationship with the journalists - if good relationships tend to result in better 'spin' being applied to the stories then learning how to manipulate the press may be possible.

I'd agree from personal experience that motivation does seem to carry over to an extent, however it does seem to modify too. Perhaps that is a reflection of 'personality' type (or more accurately specific mental attributes) having an impact upon the carried over motivation level even without other factors then impacting upon it?

One last question for the moment, but what role if any does the 'general tone' of a team-talk seem to play? Could it be a secondary factor influencing the individual teamtalk?

[SFraser]

Thanks SFraser. Much to consider.

I've been working on the basis that 'doesn't seem to be listening' may be an indicator that you've overused certain team talks and need a change/rethink of approach.

That is a valid conclusion, but I am leaning towards the idea that it highlights negligable impact upon a player, which at first glance seems the same thing and in certain cases may well be.

However I have noticed with my extremely high morale squad that it is in incredibly difficult to get a positive full time feedback reaction. I am left with either zero reaction to my "Well done, delighted" etc. or I see "confused" "angry" players when I criticise them.

This leads me to believe that the positive full time teamtalks can have no improvement effect on my high morale squad rather than I am overusing them. Motivation seems a different issue.

I use the same halftime strategies regularly and they often produce impressive reactions depending on the game context. Fulltime is invariable a time of complete ambivelance unless I criticise my players.

If your players morale is already superb or very high then it is very hard to improve it, and so I think this is exactly what "didn't seem to be listening" means, in line with my previous theories. It means precisely that the Assistant observed no improvement, because nothing I could say would produce an improvement.

That there is a 'motivation' widgit/screen is new to me - I've been relying on the text information ingame and the feedback from my AM. So I've been able to have my 'Homer Simpson' moment for the day, and will now look out for it during my next match.

If you do not use the full match 2-D or 3-D replay it can be tricky to find, like Stadium details under club information.

Where you can find it outside of 2-D/3-D replays is in either Home or Away team stats. There is a drop down box in the top right corner that switches the display between multiple statistics for your team, or between key statistics and motivation levels. I only thought to look for it after hunting high and low for Stadium information in my club information screen.

One personal observation is that I've noticed in comments about 'opponents' or other managers and players a certain relationship between personality types and how they will 'generally' respond. However, there do exist exceptions (eg a 'balanced' personality tends to respond well to 'favourable' comments about other teams, whereas personalities which are more 'professional' tend to respond badly to the same comments). I don't play with the editor, although I do understand that 'personalities' are a text description based upon mental attributes, so perhaps there is a direct link there - although which comment players pick up on is an interesting one, and may well reflect your relationship with the journalists - if good relationships tend to result in better 'spin' being applied to the stories then learning how to manipulate the press may be possible.

I must say that I myself did not spot that, that is a very interesting observation that could go a long way in explaining reactions.

I'd agree from personal experience that motivation does seem to carry over to an extent, however it does seem to modify too. Perhaps that is a reflection of 'personality' type (or more accurately specific mental attributes) having an impact upon the carried over motivation level even without other factors then impacting upon it?

Another interesting observation. When looking back at the tendency for certain players to become "Complacent" at match start at certain times of the season and against certain opponents there is a lot of merit in what you state here. I have avoided exploring actual reaction relationships because frankly I am unsure of them myself, and tend to stick to what I know works through trial and error. Exploring the actual relationships between context and reaction is most definately a key issue, and I would thoroughly appreciate anything you have to add here.

One last question for the moment, but what role if any does the 'general tone' of a team-talk seem to play? Could it be a secondary factor influencing the individual teamtalk?

I am unsure of this point. I would think that the tone of specific phrases merely hints at the underlying function of manipulating motivation, and that the tone of teamtalks to other players influences wider team behaviour and motivation through the improvement or decline of individual player performances.

Improving the performances of key players such as playmakers can have a dramatic effect on the team itself, as these players are clearly vital to the overall function. I don't think that any "general tone" of overall teamtalk has an influence greater than a specific players reaction to his specific teamtalk, but it is definately worth looking into.

Great post. I think by examining the points raised here we can go a long way to unravelling the function of this entire system.

[Zebedee77]

That is a valid conclusion, but I am leaning towards the idea that it highlights negligable impact upon a player, which at first glance seems the same thing and in certain cases may well be.

However I have noticed with my extremely high morale squad that it is in incredibly difficult to get a positive full time feedback reaction. I am left with either zero reaction to my "Well done, delighted" etc. or I see "confused" "angry" players when I criticise them.

This leads me to believe that the positive full time teamtalks can have no improvement effect on my high morale squad rather than I am overusing them. Motivation seems a different issue.

I use the same halftime strategies regularly and they often produce impressive reactions depending on the game context. Fulltime is invariable a time of complete ambivelance unless I criticise my players.

If your players morale is already superb or very high then it is very hard to improve it, and so I think this is exactly what "didn't seem to be listening" means, in line with my previous theories. It means precisely that the Assistant observed no improvement, because nothing I could say would produce an improvement.

I think this goes back to a discussion on the Main forum - is it the player of the game reading the wrong thing/more then they should into the phrase?

Superb morale can only come down, and in the absence of any way to monitor motivation outside of the match (unless I can have another 'Eureka' moment courtesy of your posts SFraser from missing another 'hidden' menu?) then it's going to be difficult to prove decisively one way or the other for me.

You made the point previously about assistants perhaps only picking up extreme reactions (and that perhaps being filtered by relevant attributes they have - not having managed above League 2 means I've not had the joys of seeing a top level AM's feedback - although the difference between League 2 and BSS/BSP was quite remarkable!), so that may tie in here.

You may not see the motivational impact of what you say because there is not a morale adjustment. The reason I'm sure motivation levels are affected here is that from the post-match feedback on team talks there are occasionally two seperate clauses for a single player (classic "Angry, seems confused"). The first clause seems to always describe a mood and is always definitively defined (ie "is angry", "is happy", "is delighted") and I seem to be able to see a link to morale here - happy players have increased morale, angry players seem to take a morale 'hit'. The second clause is more vaguely phrased (ie tends to say 'seems to be' a lot) and thus perhaps indicates that this is a motivational issue.

Am I reading too much into this? Probably But that's my pet theory for 09, and part of the reason why I've been commenting so noisily on the need for feedback and clarification over the actual 'meanings' of ingame terms as otherwise it remains just a 'pet theory' with no way for me to measure it.

If you do not use the full match 2-D or 3-D replay it can be tricky to find, like Stadium details under club information.

Where you can find it outside of 2-D/3-D replays is in either Home or Away team stats. There is a drop down box in the top right corner that switches the display between multiple statistics for your team, or between key statistics and motivation levels. I only thought to look for it after hunting high and low for Stadium information in my club information screen.

A genuine 'Eureka!' moment as I now have something to use as feedback for what my input is doing. Thank you - I never ever realised there was a 'view' button on that screen.

Want to play some more now I know where that information is tucked away so that I can test out assumptions I've made over the past few months based purely on the ingame text. Would be good to just check I'm not talking totally out of my nether regions before posting anything resembling a theory on personality types (which I'd not wish to check because it involves using the Editor) or press conferences (again, testing would require editing players' mental attributes in order to achieve some form of 'control' to establish general principles prior to context).

Your posts are making my brain work overtime SFraser and providing much illumination on undocumented details of the game which are frequently cursed as being 'broken' for lack of such documentation. Thank you

[Joor]

The Manager's Role

Approach to the match.

The first thing to look out for is the rival team's mental approach to the match. But also during the course of the game.

The elements to consider here are the following:

* Their level of concentration.

* Their level of motivation.

* Their level of determination.

* How discouraged they tend to become when they allow a goal.

* How optimistic they tend to become when they are one goal up.

* General level of their morale.

Kicking off with the right drive, with intensity, determination and motivation is vital.

Presenting yourself on the field with greater intensity than your opponents is crucial, because the first few minutes of the game often condition the rest of the match. It is therefore important that you get command right from the start.

Teams often start of the two halves with a high level of concentration, but they cant hold it all 90 minutes. When your opponents attention drop, generally speaking teams tend to lower their guard in the last 10 minutes, both first and in the second half.

Clearly your team should increase the intensity of pressing and tempo in such moments.

It is fairly normal for a team to get dejected after giving up a goal, especially if it happens at the beginning of the match. Teams will also get discouraged if they are down by a goal or even two - particularly near the end of the match.

If your adversary seems to become discouraged in such situation, once again ask your team to increase the intensity of their pressing and tempo of play.

This will put the opponents - already shaken by having given up a goal - under even greater psychological strain.

As far as optimism is concerned, it often happens that a team feels they are on top just because they have scored a goal or the game is nearly over and they are one goal up. In cases like this you get two different attitudes: either their determination increases because they are galvanized by having scored or because they wish to bring home the points they are winning, or their concentraion diminishes since they think they have already won.

If the opposing team have shown that their optimism leads to an increase in determination, all you must do is to tell the players not to get discouraged. If their optimism leads to a loss in concentration, that will help your team get back into psychological control.

As for motivation, when a team loses a match or plays badly... first, it is rare to find players who do not try or rather; the players do try hard in most matches, but not always as hard as they can.

There is a clear difference between their drive in an ordinary league game and a cup final, just as there is a difference in the importance of the match itself. The players may not be giving everything they have, but they are doing so unconsciously and not because they do not care. Note that psychological attitudes - their determination, morale, concentration etc, evolve from the level of motivation in the players.

Apart from the opponent's motivation, you must also try to establish the level of importance of the actual match you will be playing. If it is an important one, you can be sure that the opponent will be trying even harder; of course if it does not have much importance, expect them to be playing with less drive.

In either case, make sure the players drive is the same or greater than your opponents.

Difficulty when facing pressure

It is a good idea to see if there is any sign of mental states that sometimes appear in a team.

Group harmony, team spirit and unity of intent are the most effective weapons you can have. When everyone is "rowing in the same direction" and playing with altruism, half of your problems have been resolved.

Tension and anxiety can appear in any team, no matter how good the group spirit may be. This happen when the players does not think they are good enough for the opponent, or in cases where the match is very important.

If the opponents will be tense as they come out on the field, you must try to make the best of the sitiuation, asking your own players to always put the opposing player in possession under pressure.

It is very important to single out those players in psychological difficulty when facing pressing so as to make our actions of disturbance more effective during the defence phase.

Finding out which players in the opposing team are "panics" is not difficult at all. Look for low composure, concentration and morale.

Players tend to get more and more depressed the more balls they are losing as a result of pressure. Thus, intelligent pressing will become more and more effective over time.

Other weak players are those that tend to lose their tempers when things are not going well.

These players will often look for fights or seek revenge after taking hard fouls or even when they are continuously frustrated on either the defensive or offensive ends.

It may be useful to pick out such players and exploit these defects of character by provoking them.

Conditioning level of the opponent

If/when your opponents are not in good physical condition, you should play with high tempo.

Also ask strikers to go for dribbling more often because the defenders will have less force to put into their challenges.

If the opposing team are in excellent form and have great stamina, tell your team to play with less tempo and intensity, so they are up and ready physically to the other team for the whole match. Also ask your offensive players not to try out individual plays all the time, because the opponents will be fully ready at all times to challenge.

Another thing to keep in mind is the opponent's ability to administrate their stamina during the whole match. You can often see teams dose out their energy badly, and arrive at the end of the match practically running on empty. Then ask your players to save energy for the second half when your team can "press on the gas", playing with greater intensity and tempo. In any case, when the opponents have drops in physical force, tell your players to accelerate the rhythm.

Preparation for the match

When you are going throught a positive period, you must be careful that they do not lose their heads. You should not give them too much praise, but rather corecting the mistakes they are making and remind the group that the worst is yet to come.

Psychological preparation also regards the cohesion in the group in terms of the relationships between its various members. Sometimes the team is united and everybody is working together, but it can happen that you get internal tensions. The best medicine is to make sure the players play together as much as possible, because you get socialization when people share joy and distress. If the situation is serious you have to pick out the members and ask the club to send them away.

You might find it helpful to use a so called "socio gram" - every member of the team got a favorite player .

This list will help you make out a graph of the internal relationships in the locker room, and you will understand the clans, fractions and the rivalries.

In any case, the preparation for the match during week must also include attention to the relationship in the squad.

The mental preparation of the group must also include the more "noble" concepts like fair play, the respect for the opponents and the written rules of the sports. It is important that you give the players a sense of accepting the result, of not being bad losers. And behaviour that are serious from a sporting point of view: simulated fouls, violent fouls and off the ball incidents should be punished hard.

You will also have to impart the "winning" mentality, which can be summed up in this way: having a sense of belonging to a collective group, taking to the field with the intention of winning and convincing without ever looking for a more deliberately thrived result, never going over the moon when you are successful or getting depressed when you have been defeated.

Of course the mental preparation of the group will be a long and complicated process and will call for qualities in YOU..

[steve dewilde]

Something, i dont manage is when you start a new save as automatic reputation, during around two months players have always problems to have motivation playing for you.

I found hard to find the right balance in team talks to increase their motivation or morale and ending often to either players "nervous" or complacent no matter what i say.

Straight at beginning, i tried hard or soft or a mix of it and as Man U with Players like Rooney Tever Ferdinand or Vds in key position have been deadly in term of performance.

So is there any hope to perform much better when you start a career with low management reputation or you ve no choice to face a string of bad results for the first two months of management ?

[SFraser]

The Manager's Role

Brilliant post, one of the best I have ever read. When you sit back and look at all the tweaks you make or relationships you manage or all the changes you shrink away from making because you are afraid you don't know the mechanics and consequences, then you realise that post describes exactly how you are playing.

Every single element necessary for that kind of general strategy to work already exists in Football Manager, and that post pretty much sums up how I have been playing the game recently, without being able to put it into those words.

That post deserves its own thread, and is the greatest, or possibly only, "endgame" strategy I have seen for FM09 once you have a grasp of the mechanics.

Great stuff Joor. I applaud you for taking the time to put that in writing.

[RT--]

That was a great post by Joor, wasn't it?

Ever since I discovered the motivation drop-down in the home/away stats section (how many people actually know that exists?), I've been getting a lot more out of team-talks and structuring my match strategy around the motivation and confidence of my players and the oppositions (in a similar manner to the way Joor explained, without having read his ideas).

In a recent game, for example, I was playing away to a team who were heavy favourites, and managed to go in to the last 20 minutes at 1-1. I noticed that about 4/5 of their players were 'playing nervously' while at least half of my team were 'playing with confidence' or 'looking motivated'. Usually, I'd have shut up shop and tried to see out the draw, but I turned up the tempo, upped the defensive line and closing down and went for it. We scored twice to win 3-1.

Little things like players who have my club or me set as their preferred club/team being easier to motivate or fire up, or ambitious players being motivated more often in matches due to setting high league/cup bonuses - these things make me realise there's a lot going on behind the scenes that I'd never realised, and there's a great base for SI to build on with future versions. Props to SFraser for pointing a lot of that out.

In turn, it makes you realise the value of having a few players in the team with 'driven' or '(model) professional' or 'determined' personalities, because they're so often motivated or they're not susceptible to being complacent, or don't get nervous when you're losing. In short, they need very little man-management.

I have to admit I rarely check the condition of opposition players compared to my own (I generally take my own players off when they drop below 70, but that's more to avoid injuries) so I'll pay a bit more attention to that from now on, perhaps.

[RT--]

One last point: with regards complacency, the assistant manager's in-game feedback often points out players who 'seem complacent' before the kick-off, in time for you to give an 'expect a performance' or similar prematch team-talk to those players. I'd have to experiment to see if that actually prevents certain players from being complacent, but I tend to use it myself.

"Angry, seems confused" is probably an indication of lowered motivation and lowered morale to the critical teamtalk you give. If you think about nervous being closer to high motivation than low motivation then you can understand that a critical teamtalk may fire a player up, or it can destroy their confidence

I also wonder if 'playing nervously', rather than just being the result of over-confidence, is something which affects players with poor 'pressure' or 'big match' hidden attributes in certain games, where you've used a team talk along the lines of 'expect a win' or 'expect a performance'?

[lam]

I have a question for people.

Do you base your half time chat and end of time chat on the opposition or the performance?

ie.... .Spurs are play Manchester United and we get a draw, however we played much better than them throughout the whole match.

Should I be happy that we got a draw in a match that we were heavy underdogs or should I be pi$$ed as we performed well enough to win, but we didn't?

LAM

[RT--]

I think you have to go on the game's match-odds and the player ratings, by and large. So even if you think you should be favourites for a home game, if the match odds say you're heavy underdogs, a team talk of 'expect a win' is likely to backfire with most players. As far as they 'know', they're heavy underdogs and you're being unreasonable.

Similarly, if a player gets a 7.5 rating but you think that he's played badly, saying you're disappointed or angry with his performance will probably go down badly (unless he's particularly determined/professional/happy or really likes you).

So in your case, if your Spurs team drew with Man United and generally got good match ratings, then you're probably better off saying you're pleased or you sympathise, or whatever. By all means tell a couple of players that you're disappointed if their ratings were below scratch (and especially if they're the sort of players that will take it well, or have good morale) but telling everyone you're disappointed or angry will probably upset a few of them.

That's just my guess, anyway I'd be interested to hear what others would do.

[Zebedee77]

For me, it's always depended on the morale of the players. Now I know that saying 'nothing' is actually saying 'you've performed adequately', I tend to use that a lot for players who have had an 'okay' game on the motivation screen but whose morale is excellent. If morale is below superb, then I look at the match stats and judge a general team talk based on that - sympathise if they've been unlucky etc.

I try not to overpraise because I know my squad tends to get complacent (they are very young which may play a part? I certainly notice different reactions which seem to be explainable by age, although hidden mental attributes may also be to 'blame').

[Macon]

You highlight six 'motivation' markers, yet one sees a much more varied set of responses in the feedback which muddies the water for me, especially when there are two different reactions present at the same time eg "angry, seems confused".

Mmmmm.... to me, 'Playing without confidence' and 'Playing with confidence' sound like they ought to be morale markers, rather than motivation markers, even if they appear in the motivation screen. But it's not as simple as Superb morale translating to 'Playing with confidence', because Determination affects how much impact morale has on a player's performance on the pitch.

We only ever get one description here: a player is not simultaneously described as 'Playing with confidence' and 'Seems motivated', so perhaps the game rates 'Seems motivated' higher than 'Playing with confidence', and reports that description if the criteria for both phrases are met.

Alternatively... I could be completely wrong, and 'Playing with / without confidence' are indeed motivation descriptions, rather than the on-field consequences of high / low morale.

[SFraser]

Mmmmm.... to me, 'Playing without confidence' and 'Playing with confidence' sound like they ought to be morale markers, rather than motivation markers, even if they appear in the motivation screen. But it's not as simple as Superb morale translating to 'Playing with confidence', because Determination affects how much impact morale has on a player's performance on the pitch.

We only ever get one description here: a player is not simultaneously described as 'Playing with confidence' and 'Seems motivated', so perhaps the game rates 'Seems motivated' higher than 'Playing with confidence', and reports that description if the criteria for both phrases are met.

Alternatively... I could be completely wrong, and 'Playing with / without confidence' are indeed motivation descriptions, rather than the on-field consequences of high / low morale.

I think that we need to deal with on-pitch motivation as seperate from morale, because on-pitch motivation and off-pitch morale are not one and the same thing. There is a clear relationship between the two but it is not a direct 1-for-1 relationship, otherwise you would expect to see "Superb" Morale translate directly into superior Motivation, and this does not happen.

It does not matter how we name each system, so long as we understand that on-pitch attitude is a seperate system to off-pitch attitude, but that the two are very interactive and work very much as two features of a wider system of man management. Not a player defined system of man management such as discipline, squad status and rotation, but an actual mechanical system of man management embedded deep into general gameplay.

The actual on-pitch system of motivation is slightly tricky to understand, but I think I am getting a grasp of it. If you imagine for example that there are a series of off-pitch events that can impact Morale, then you can view Motivation in the same light. There are a number of on-pitch events that will effect Motivation and will effect performances. Each event will alter the motivation of certain players according to certain rules, and the managers teamtalk is but one of these events.

In short when it is time for a teamtalk you have the opportunity to choose a Motivation event to influence their on-pitch motivation. Once out on the pitch you are stuck with that Motivation event and so motivation will not alter untill another motivation event occurs. This could be a goal, a substitution, number of successful passes, number of shots off-target, number of fouls conceded or received, etc. The point is that motivation has been added to the game and changes to motivation are triggered by certain events (of which only the obvious ones such as a goal stand out for easy identification) and that the Teamtalk is little more than a single Motivation event you as the manager can actively choose.

Donning the assumption cap for a moment, I would assume that the number of teamtalk options and the effect of each teamtalk is developed in such a way as to produce each possible level of motivation on an average "test subject" player, so that with such a player each teamtalk would in turn produce each level of motivation. I would further assume that the actual effect is then modified by personality and other factors such as Morale, so that with certain players in certain situations it is impossible to A: produce much of an effect on them, B: be able to produce all of the effects or C: produce effects at the extreme ends of positive or negative motivation.

For example with a highly professional or determined player that has the manager listed as favoured personell, and has high morale it would make sense that the worst consequences, such as destroyed morale and "complacent/nervous/without confidence" motivation levels would be minimised or rendered impossible to achieve. Likewise in such a player it would be difficult to achieve the maximum motivation levels through a single motivation event (teamtalk). Certain players are more sensitive to motivation events and can swing wildly from extreme to extreme, other players are far less sensitive and tend to only reach either extreme through a highly influential teamtalk in conjuction with a series of critical on-pitch events.

I hope I am making sense here, but that is my current view on the workings of the system.

[Rickooko]

A very good thread, it lighten up a lot after reading it.

However, i am pretty sure motivation is not a new features for 09, it has been with fm for long.

The only different now is we have the "window", together with assistant "feedback", to see it clearly during a match, to make life easier.

In older FMs, you have to check the motivation by onfield action yourself, that is, playing in full match mode.

[RT--]

For example with a highly professional or determined player that has the manager listed as favoured personell, and has high morale it would make sense that the worst consequences, such as destroyed morale and "complacent/nervous/without confidence" motivation levels would be minimised or rendered impossible to achieve. Likewise in such a player it would be difficult to achieve the maximum motivation levels through a single motivation event (teamtalk).

The second part of that quote is interesting.

I definitely agree with the first bit - professional, determined or happy players have a kind of buffer against losing motivation (playing without confidence) due to negative in-game events or harsh/unjust team-talks.

Same for 'playing nervously', but I would guess (and it is just a guess) that pressure (and maybe composure?) comes in to that, as well.

I think 'complacency' is slightly different - it still manifests itself as lack of motivation in terms of its effect on their performance, but I think it arises when players think the game will be easy, and so is likely to be buffered more by players with high professionalism (and possibly determination), but not necessarily high morale.

In my experience, though, players who are particularly determined tend to be 'looking motivated' far more often. I've got a player who I bring on as a sub quite often, and he's almost always 'looking motivated' from the off, and he's got very high determination and teamwork attributes. So I'm interested as to why you think professional/determined players are less likely to achieve top levels of motivation due to one-off events. I think they might actually be easier to motivate/fire-up through team-talks or positive match events.

Generally, you seem to have a very good understanding of how the system works - and I've learnt a lot from this thread. It's quite a clever system, really, isn't it? It's a shame that not everybody sees that.

[phnompenhandy]

RT- post #34: " Ever since I discovered the motivation drop-down in the home/away stats section (how many people actually know that exists?)..."

Damn you RT - I spent hours looking for this elusive menu, only for it to dawn on me you mean the 2 widgets I ALWAYS keep on my match screen!

Re SFraser's post #42:

One factor that has a disproportionate effect on on-field motivation is the 'mistake that led to a goal' - however professional the player he never seems to get over it (i.e. it remains as his motivation comment the rest of the game). Any tips on what half-time team talk can dislodge this baby?

[ZdlR]

One factor that has a disproportionate effect on on-field motivation is the 'mistake that led to a goal' - however professional the player he never seems to get over it (i.e. it remains as his motivation comment the rest of the game). Any tips on what half-time team talk can dislodge this baby?

It also seems to have a disproportionate affect on the match rating. I've had defenders on ~7 that have dropped to low ~5 because of a mistake that led to a goal. If the player is a 'perfectionist', then you'd be well within your rights to tell him you're disappointed, otherwise I'd err on the side of caution and just tell him you have faith in him. Or, failing that, sub him.

[ZdlR]

Having tinkered with tactics for ages and generally performed as expected, I was at a loss to fathom what was wrong with my design. We seemed to create about 3 or 4 clear cut chances per game but would rarely convert any of them. I have some decent players and some really good ones, but it just didn't seem to matter much.

After the most abysmal loss away to Middlesbrough (I'm Newcastle), where I lost 4-1 and almost everyone put in a half-time performance of under 6, I decided enough was enough. I went through Lyssien's personality guide and matched them up with my starting squad. I had honestly thought that 'Light-hearted' was a pretty bad thing - implying that he didn't really take much seriously. Apparently not. It turns out that most of my team talks had been really poor- underplaying the importance of games or failing to demand the best from my players.

Once I started expecting a win at home the players responded much better. In the last four home games I won 4v2, 3v1, 3v1 and 2v0, with goals within the first ten minutes every time and without changing my tactic almost at all. By half time, anyone performing under 7 would get my disappointment and the rest would be asked not to let their performance drop.

I'm just hoping that it wasn't just because it was the final furlong at the end of the season that they responded so well and so consistently. I've also vowed not to buy players without a good personality anymore, including selling my inconsistent, and balanced, fullback and replacing him with a resolute one.

Could it be that all the times that I've been blaming tactics for my subpar results - even though they've looked logical and, on occasion, generated some lovely football - the blame actually lay with a lack of motivation. One thing is for certain, I now watch the matches with the motivation widget open at all times!

[SFraser]

One factor that has a disproportionate effect on on-field motivation is the 'mistake that led to a goal' - however professional the player he never seems to get over it (i.e. it remains as his motivation comment the rest of the game). Any tips on what half-time team talk can dislodge this baby?

The only way to dislodge that baby is for the player in question to be involved in several motivation raising events. If it was a simple mistake in an otherwise decent performance and the player has a good temperament he should be able to pull himself out of it. However it does seem to indicate the tipping point of performance for some players and players with a really poor mental disposition further subjected to intense pressure and demotivating events can swiftly collapse. There is no outright best teamtalk other than whichever teamtalk best suits his personality and the context of the match. Top players may respond to the hairdryer while players that cannot handle pressure very well will require an arm around their shoulder approach. Ofcourse this then requires a concerted team effort at the start of the second half to improve motivation further and no undo the work done at halftime.

Once I started expecting a win at home the players responded much better. In the last four home games I won 4v2, 3v1, 3v1 and 2v0, with goals within the first ten minutes every time and without changing my tactic almost at all. By half time, anyone performing under 7 would get my disappointment and the rest would be asked not to let their performance drop.

Could it be that all the times that I've been blaming tactics for my subpar results - even though they've looked logical and, on occasion, generated some lovely football - the blame actually lay with a lack of motivation. One thing is for certain, I now watch the matches with the motivation widget open at all times!

These are very important points. Despite being aware of how important motivation is, it is only recently while managing at the very bottom of the league system in the Blue Square South that I have realised just how profoundly powerful motivation can be. A hard pressing game combined to an early goal can totally destroy "superior" opposition within the first 10 minutes at that level of football. At the top, or higher levels, player personalities and mentalities are of sufficient quality to handle adversity and you rarely see 4 or 5 players on the same team playing without confidence in a Premier League match. At lower league level it is entireally possible to "knock the stuffing" out of an opponent within the first 15 minutes and I have seen repeated examples of 8-10 players "playing without confidence" or "playing nervously" when subjected to intense pressure, and this almost invariably results in a heavy defeat, irrespective of relative quality.

At lower league level I personally consider motivation to be as much a weapon as player ability and tactics. If you can break the spirit of your opponent early in the game then you do not necessarilly require equivelant quality and superior tactics or superior quality and equivelant tactics. You can field a pair of rottweilers in central midfield and bone crunching centrebacks and even with a lack of intelligence and pace you can play a high D-Line and break your opponents morale, with regular mistakes are sure to follow. Ofcourse the caveat is that your team can be subjected to the same torment.

The long and short of the issue is that from what I have observed as quality decreases the importance and power of motivation increases. Top level football packing highly professional players will come down to tactics and player quality. Lower level football packing players of low mental constitution can equally come down to tactics and player quality, but more often than not hinges upon who can keep their nerve and demoralise the opponent quickest.

[Zebedee77]

Funny how AI managers in the BSS love to attack quite aggressively in the first 10 minutes, isn't it?

[iamjerome]

i haven't usually given you much credit on these forums here SFraser but this thread is something i have personally found quite enlightening and sort of inspiring. i never really believed in the level of depth to this module of the game that i've seen you describe but i too have shared the experiences you've described in the lower leagues with Bromley. whilst i had appreciated the intricacy and importance of personality traits, characteristics needing a strategy to be developed for team talks i didn't quite fully realise the depth of strength to be gained in doing so, partly out of laziness regarding game play but mostly due to being put off by the limited options of interaction but it's quite less restrictive than i realised. although i do hope it's expanded upon in FM 2010. in any case, excellent thread.

[dz47]

Just had an interesting experience regarding 'motivation/morale which i thought i'd share as I've enjoyed following this thread of late

Playing as arsenal, season 1, 14 games in and undefeated. Morale across the whole team was excellent. I decided to criticise both Adebayor and Arshavin in the media (choosing 'playing slightly within themselves' for both) as they had both dropped off in terms of goals, assists and ratings in th past 5 games. Their responses were identical and followed this basic pattern in the media and player feedback: "Adebayor responded positively to the managers criticism....he felt the managers praise was slightly harsh considering he felt he had been playing quite well....but accepted that he could get his head down and play better" (not the exact words, but you get the point I'm sure). Now this was a pretty standard 'contradictory' feedback from the players. Both of their morale dropped slightly as a result, and both personal pages showed they felt their manager's criticism was slightly harsh. So at this point i'm thinking i might have chosen the wrong option.

Next game against Man U at home, I tell them both that I 'have faith'. They respond well, both showing 'motivated' in the in game feedback. They go on to score 2 goals between them, with both goals involving both with assist and goal. I go on to win 4-0. So now I'm thinking despite the initial feedback, my tactic was successful because i got the desired response in the end.

Your thoughts?

[phnompenhandy]

Just had an interesting experience regarding 'motivation/morale which i thought i'd share as I've enjoyed following this thread of late

[snip]

Your thoughts?

That's very much what SFraser is saying - we must distinguish between morale and motivation. Between games morale is important but in a game motivation is the key. If you sometimes have to kick a butt to get them motivated, do it. Winning will buck up their morale afterwards anyway!