Lets Discuss Sweepers

[Warrenwwr]

I did quite the opposite with my sweeper, putting a free role forward runs and attacking mentality with high closing down and zonal marking, and while he goes forward to the DMC position on goal kicks, he goes back to the defensive line, and sticks there even while we're piling on the pressure.

this seems to happen with my attempts to replicate "der kaiser" (since the CM days). i even tried editing one of my regens to fit the requirements, yet nothing.

am i doing something wrong or is it just impossible to have my sweeper make occasional bombing runs.

[lord victor]

I'm becoming very enthousiastic about this sweeper-tactic i'm using.

I had to play the italian supercup against AC Milan, playing their standard formation.

As you can see above i use a DMC, a DR, DC, DL and a SW.

Kehl, Andreolli (Zaccardo suspended), Hubschman (instead of the normal Andreolli), Chielini and Aarujo.

I lost the european supercup against milan as well, being hammered a lucky 2-1 loss.

I noticed everyone very free (gilardino, Martins and Vd Vaart) on the Milan attack, so this second match i decided to put on man marking with my sweeper as free man.

So Andreolli was closing down on Martins (but not thight marking) and hard tackle, Kehl used very close and thight hard tackling-marking on Vd Vaart and Chielini took care, with hard tackling and thight marking, of Gilardino.

They scored one goal as reaction to my 3 goals. A upcoming MC (sissoko) was free (aurajo, sweeper, wasn't playing well, got a 5 and was subbed in the 50' minut).

Milan had very little chances. Thanks to the man-marking (i suppose) only usable with a sweeper (since a back four is very different with 3 manmarkers and a free defender).

My sweeper became a very defending sweeper, I don't know really how to use the Beckenbauer-sweeper-variant.

Someone has a tactic with this working to upload?

Only thing i'm sure of is 'very attacking' metality, a f-arrow to DMC, being playmaker+playmakertactic ticked and being captain.

[Warrenwwr]

simple question really: are you in agreement with me in believing that a dmc with a B-arrow to the sweeper position can be considered as an application of a sweeper?

well this is the case, i've been using this in my tactic for River, where the DMC, while being constructive in attack, and in many cases i've witnessed, has become instrumental in spreading the play, he has defensive duties which requires him to position behind the main 3-man defensive line to do the sweeping up as necessary. effectively he attempts to be der kaiser.

i have it uploaded at www.fmdownloads.net

[lord victor]

I ran a few tests with Aurajo edited with better mental and passing stats with the following tactic:

back 4, dr+dl running up to wb

sw farrow to dmc

mr/ml farrow to amr/l

amc farrow st

2 st.

sw mental:

attack 20

freedom 1

close 20

tack 20

forward often

run ball often

cross often

through often

hold ball

-set as playmaker in team instr

The sw stayed to much in sw position, rarely coming forward.

then i switched sw to dmc with barrow to gk.

This actually worked, with ball he was upfield, without next to or behind the defence.

Only problem was that my team didn't care about the playmaker tactic and almost never gave him the ball .

[Warrenwwr]

this thread MUST survive

[lord victor]

It's already in the 'official discussion-post' up ahead, that's how I found out .

Don't worry.

[nic9394]

puyol does exceptional for me as a stopper.

[edbray]

Hi i've spent the last few FM's playing either 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2 diamond and i'm very keen to begin new formation with a back 3, as i'm a sweeper myself, but never tried it on FM before!

I just have a few questions.

1) With regards to formation, with a sweeper and 2 DC's, would you advise playing narrow or wide, i'm going to give mine attacking runs to the full back slots (the DC's) and hoping that a DMC will clear up the rest defensively. I've never been keen on the idea of full backs, and with a DMC would hope they aren't required (unless i was playing very defensively) so was thinking of having an MR and ML to give me some width to attack while not being too far up to be useless defensively. What i crucially want to do is have creative midfielders and this is my problem, would you play 2 AMC's or 2 MC's with forward runs? Also is this likely to weaken too much what is a defensive diamond and should they be perhaps more all round, or one with a more defensive role than the other? Also i'd like to implement a system where i play the ball along the ground, as i've been playing with very direct defences before, and i'd rather avoid the constant need for physical powerhouses all over the pitch! Though will like to have one striker to flick on. Well enough rambling about that.

2) Team instructions, as said i'd prefer a short passing game, though width concerns me. Closing down is the main question mark i have, there seem to be varying opinions on the sweepers role, in theory, i would have thought it's best to have high closing down on the 2 DC's and the DMC with the sweeper less so to pick out his tackles. Alternatively having the sweeper much higher would seem to work, but how would you set the DC and DMC to work to this?

3) Goal Kicks, a problem i've had with previous formations. I assume with sweepers it is much more favourable to send them long or to the wings. With previous flat back 4's with a DMC i always had the problem that my defence would be caught out by headers going behind my defence, despite playing very deep with fast defenders!

4 ) I've found the ROT system worked well in a 4-5-1 and will try to implement it into this 3-5-2 system. With it being very centrally dominated defensively would you recommend having lower mentalities on my centre midfielders or my wingers (assuming they begin as flat). I tend to believe mentality works as a forward and back position tool, whereby 20 mentality on a DC would mean they were effectively a DMC and 1 mentality say on a forward would make them an AMC. Would be interesting to see a side mentality in future FM's as opposed to a general width. Again i'm rambling.

5) Depth also leaves a question mark, with a back 4 i tended to play deep with 4 centre backs accross the back to dominate the air, with no full backs, would it be better to play higher up, especially concerning the sweeper as i guess they become a bit of a waste if they are kept back. I'm asssuming no offside trap is played also. Should the sweeper have attacking runs to anywhere?

6) Marking. I would assume against 2 strikers, the DC's man mark, with the DMC picking up a midfielder (Man Marking) and a zonal sweeper. 1 striker, the sweeper man marks? with the DC's zonal?. 3 all man mark with a zonal dmc. I've always used zonal previous so i can't comment on these alleged man marking problems, any help would be appreciated!

If you've got this far, i'm amazed. Any tips would be very helpful, and i'll let you know how i get on.

[Warrenwwr]

my dmc withh barrow seems to work very well, more noticeably in attack, as he tends to spray the ball round the park, and even gets some shots on. i had a youth dmc learn scholes' ppms to get him to push further forward. he has largely attacking mentality and configuration, ensuring that he supports the attack.

defensively, i think that keeping him on low closing down would entice him to get to the sweeping position and from there, allow the DC with very high closing down to attack the ball, rendering most AMC's useless. he usually gets 8's and 9's as he gets the majority of headers from balls pushed toward our goal. basically yourthe DMC/SW then is called into action should a lack of judgement occur on the part of this DC.

both the RDC and LDC are there to mop up the scraps on the wings, which are exploited at times (if using AMRL's rather than WBLR's.) their closing down is lower to cope with deep runners.

3-1-4-2

as is, it has worked for over 3 seasons with my athletic (bilbao) side, with very minimal tweaking. i sometimes go to narrow play if i'm away, but it's not necessary. i haven't beat real madrid or barcelona as yet though and they pulverize me as ronaldinho destroys my defence so any suggestions are welcome.

[panomaniac]

Originally posted by Cleon:

From what I can see, not many people use sweepers in tactics. Is there a reason for this? are people 'scared' to try them so to speak?

I just don't want a player behind the defensive line because I feel its a waste of a player who could be contributing more effectively by being higher up the pitch and more involved in the action. Central defenders can deal with attacks well enough without having to take a player away from another position just so he can cover your DC's, seems a waste of a player for me personally.

If I'm worried about balls over the top then I'll deepen the d-line.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by panomaniac:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

From what I can see, not many people use sweepers in tactics. Is there a reason for this? are people 'scared' to try them so to speak?

I just don't want a player behind the defensive line because I feel its a waste of a player who could be contributing more effectively by being higher up the pitch and more involved in the action. Central defenders can deal with attacks well enough without having to take a player away from another position just so he can cover your DC's, seems a waste of a player for me personally.

If I'm worried about balls over the top then I'll deepen the d-line. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you deepen the d-line though you get extra pressure on the defenders. You allow the opposition to come at you more, because you sit deep. Not always a good option.

Plus you don,t really loose a player, all you do is make 1 of the defenders a sweeper. In most cases if you use a sweeper you only use 3 defenders anyways, so you gain an extra player to use in a more attacking option.

[Greg Beckett]

I never use this system because of inexperience in this area and lack of any quality SW's in any team I've managed (no point in buying them if I don't utilize them).

Whenever I've thought about it, I've always imagined it as a system playing the opposition onside should opponents break through, especially when playing high tempo, and attacking.

So is it best to only use this when playing normal/defensive (so naturally a deepish line)? This would mean a more stretched side (Playing direct), good for the sweepers distribution.

[Eh?]

What instructions would you give the sweeper?

[joff26]

Just wondering if anyone managed to create an attacking libero?

[timpino]

my reason to not play a sweeper is that it's bloody hard to find one let alone two good sweepers in game, and you really should have three since injuries seem to be commonplace theese days...

I'm a big fan of the libero but I think that the DM playmaker have taken his role in todays football. and purely using him defensively defeats his purpose imo...

[williamshankley]

Some very good points raised here I feel! However I use a Sweeper Keeper as I play very high up the pitch!

[gunnerfan]

I've been giving this a lot of thought. As someone mentioned earlier, my biggest concern is getting the sweeper into the attack. I'm wondering if defensive mentality combined with high creative freedom might do it.

Anyway, more to be posted later.

[ceefax the cat]

It is impossible to create a defender who attacks. I've tried and tried and there is nothing you can do to make him go up the pitch and participate in attacks, except MAYBE use the editor to give him a PPM which makes him get forward whenever possible, get into opposition area, etc.. I believe there are one or two sweepers in the game with PPMs like that, but couldn't tell you who they are.

[gunnerfan]

ceefax, are you referring only to central defenders, or wingbacks, too? Because I have pretty good luck getting my wingbacks into the attack at least some of the time. Of course, it would be better of there was a tick box for "overlap".

[ceefax the cat]

It's easy to get wingbacks involved in the attack. I mean central defenders/sweepers. Sammer/Beckenbauer stylee.

[ubos]

Have never used sweepers as I always stick to my trusted system of 4 defenders and 1 DMC, which works very well for me. Is using a stopper very useful though? Since he always stay behind the 4 defenders, wouldn't a pacy opposition forward beat him on pace easily and get many 1 on 1 chances? Then the sweeper and 4 defenders would be scrambling back?

[dav7fbman]

If you want a centre-back to attack, then I seriously doubt a free-role would do the job, as it would just encourage him to defend more. Maybe if you tried a midfield player in that position - a Pirlo or Alonso, or maybe a Carrick. I'm slowly buildig myself a sweeper tactic now, so it's catching on!

I'm going with the more attackin build. I hv the sweeper with a farrow to DM, two sarrowed CBs, a pair of WBs farrowed to the midfield. I've then got two CMs with an AM behind 2 CFs. I personally don't fancy using a DM in a sweeper system, as it would just reduce your chances of getting that sweeper to attack. I'm only on the build right now, with an idea of the type of players I'll need, but not really worked on the instructions needed yet.

[gunnerfan]

So far, I've noticed that having my sweeper f-arrowed seems to result in him pushing up on the attack and then not tracking back when possession is lost.

[Warrenwwr]

wow glad to see that efforts in making a libero are not waning.

i must admit that i've never seem sammer or beckenbauer at work, but i think i remember seeing matthaius (sp) push forward from sweeper in a past world cup.

after many tries to emulate this, going as far as training kiddy sweepers with scholes/ballack type ppms, i concede that this sort of role just can't be emulated in game.

the closest i've gotten was with setting my DMC with a barrow to the SW as i stated in page 1, which works perfect, but just isnt the same .

It does offer interesting game play though and can even be used with onlly 2 DC's (for comebacks) with other tweaks obviously. I've been using this sort of formation for a while now with Lancaster (2014) and previously with Inter.

In terms of defensive type sweepers, they're pretty much tha shiznit for me when playing away, and i never play wingbacks ever.

[viktor6]

FANTASTIC!!!!

I found thıs thread at exactly the rght tıme, I´ve started a game usıng Herrera´s system, and I wanted more ınformatıon on settıng up a sweeper system.

Currently I´m usıng Samuel as a sweeper, but he acts ın a more atteckıng role, comıng forward to start passıng moves. I´m tryıng to recreate a Scırea-type player, though, so I am lookıng for a more suıtable candıdate. I´ve adapted Lord Vıctor´s player ınstructıons by gıvıng my sweeper a lıttle more freedom and makıng hım a lıttle more attackıng (sımılar to the DM preset) and settıng hım to make shorter passes, and ıt works faırly well ın my frıendlıes, I just have to waıt and see how ıt works ın the league. Wıll post the ıntsructıons when I can.

One questıon: Dıd Holland play a sweeper ın theır ´74 team?

[Guest]

Hi I love the sweeper system so i'm loving this thread.

I'm currently playing:

=FL=====FC=====FR=

==================

=ML=====MC=====MR=

========DMC=======

=====DC====DC=====

========SW========

I play it very wide with the wide midfielders running all the way up overlapping the wide forwards who run inside. The key is the SW/DMC/MC/FC central column relationship, with my players so wide it closes down the flanks and this central column sweeps up any balls through the middle, while my centre backs act as stoppers/blockers against opposition forwards.

I agree with Warrenwwr, I never play wingbacks, I just feel they are too negative for me. Though if I am holding onto an important lead or facing a really superior team, i sometimes switch my ML/MR to DL/DR with farrows to the halfway line. Though you need a good squad of players to do this.

[viktor6]

My sweeper system is working quite effectively: I'm tight at the back and Materazzi (my current 1st choice sweeper) is very good at starting counters after intercepting a long pass. However, the system can be broken by teams which use only one player up front: I man-mark the striker, but I can't keep track of the other attackers (Man marking an AMC is a complete waste of time). I'm going to switch my wing-backs to full-backs just to increase the number of defenders available, and I will adopt a more flexible attack (2DMs and 2wingers with 1 striker) to combat 4-5-1 formations.

[El_Loco_Avs]

I was thinking of making a sweeper version of my tactic as I have a young SW/DC with amazing technical stats coming up. He's currently on loan getting experience. Once his mental attributes go up aa bit he'll be amazing. He's only lacking in flair/influence.

Problem is is that he is slow right now, with 0 pace. The DC's I'll use in conjunction are quite mobile though.

My current tactic is a 3-2-3-2 formation. 3 DC's with the ones on the sides having better passinng skills. 2 DMC's with one being so defensive he's an extra defender and the other which i'm still trying to get to be more of a link between attack and defense.

What i want to try is make a 1-2-2-3-2 version. So pulling back one of the DC's and hoping that the SW can be the one to build up attacks.

Any suggestions on how to set this up? i'm not familiar with sweeping systems but I would love to try it next season... especially because i'm starting to become inconsistent.

[megafan2005]

I have been looking through loads of links from the useful Tactics bible and was thinking id would be more interesting to make my own formation/tactic i have come up with a system which i believe will be effective at stopping the old firm but im worried my sweeper/stopper (he is in between the two) has to low stats.l Ive seen the reccommended stats and for most of them Touzani doesn't quite reach the numbers required but is that for the premiership and will 12's and 13's do for passing tackling anticipation ect (etc)

[qussl3]

THough i don't play with sweepers myself, i noticed that noone mentions Vincent Kompany as a candidate for playing in the libero position. He's got good pace and acc, decent mental and sick attacking stats for a defender. Also, i thik he's got a "gets forwards often" PPM.

On the defensive side, I play as with a high line and decently quick DCs, and i notice that my GK Akinfeev for all intents and purposes sweeps up through balls extremely effectively, he doesn't cover for DC screw up though

Just my 2 bits

[Cleon]

Need to up so it doesnt get deleted.

[N33]

a quick question

how about in a flat back four i decided to change that to 1 sweeper one DC and the Dl and DR like this:

DL DC DR

SWEEPER right underneath the DC

Is that risky ?

any advice on hot that could be done?

ANother

how abt having your full backs in the space behind where they normally are. like a sweepers position but WIDE? would that mean anything?

[phnompenhandy]

I'd say I play a 'sweepish' tactic! With a 5-3-2 I have 3 DCs - usually the left and right ones on man-marking (if 2 oppo strikers) and the middle one on zonal marking with a lower mentality (2-3) to cover for any errors. In addition I use the sweeper-keeper settings and an MCd as playmaker. I reckon that covers the benefits of a sweeper whilst maintaining an offside trap. Generally, I find it pretty effective even if my defensive record isn't outstanding.

[rakhabbit]

The AI likes using them, and usually as a part of a defensive formation

SW, 2DC's, 2WB's, DMC, 2MC's, AMC, FC ... should be familiar to most.

I think the best use of a Sweeper would be if using either the 532 or 352. Attributes wise sweepers usually look like (to me) midfielders trapped in a defensive position.

[Warrenwwr]

mc/dmc with barrow to sweeper is still the closest i've gotten to "der kaiser" style...sortitoutsi please

[praxiteles]

I think I am going to try a crazy formation. SW farrowed all the way to MC, DR, DL, 2 DMC's, 2 MC's farrowed to AMC, AMR, AML, ST.

Yes, no DC's. I intend to use DMC's as stoppers.

But I am yet to find the ambidextrous SW as I like.

[newgeneration manager]

Dont listen to him praxiteles. THe ultimate sweeper for mation is a 1 sweeper-2 centreback- 2 very attaking wingbacks- 2 defensive mid one with alot of creativity- 1 attaking mid- 2 strickers. It provides a suprising blend of attack and defence

[Mike_Cardinal]

Something that I've been thinking about: How important are the stats that govern whether a player is Natural/Accomplished/Competent etc in a certain position? If a centre back hasn't gone any skill in player sweeper at all (according to the positions screen) but has all the perfect stats for it, how much difference will it really make? Surely they would be able to play there well, or does the lack of a position skill there mean that they will not be as good at following tactical instructions or something?

[Cleon]

They can play there, but they might be inconsistent or make more mistakes than they normally would.

[carboreeta]

I would love to play with a sweeper but onyl with a back 3, I used to do this on most versions of CM/Fm but with 07 and 08 I find wingbacks difficult to get working with a good offence/defence balance - one or the other seems poor and I find myself needing more players in and around the midfield to pressurise and CA.

I would however be intersted in a Sweeper like Mattheus for germany who actually came forward with the ball acting more as a ball playing DM offensively but then dropping back to sweep when he has offloaded.

Can this be done without the wack arrows that hurt the ME (wwfan)?

[NozEE]

I'd be interested to hear how you guys set up a defence including a sweeper that's actually solid at the back. What instructions are you giving him, the sweeper, and your other defenders?

On a trip down memory lane, I'm playing the good old Scramjet formation looking like this:

http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=26547_scramjet_122_675lo.JPG

It's no problem scoring goals, but my defence is a bit shaky.

Any advice on what instructions to use?

Edit: Oh, don't mind that the screenshot's from FM07 - I am indeed playing FM08

[dankrzyz]

Bump... any more experience with sweepers in FM09?

[Genetic Deviant]

i am playing a sweeper system (which i will shortly upload to my EL-TEL-TACTICS-HQ thread).

i line up like this:

SW(farrow)

DC DC

MC(barrow) MC

AML AMR

STR STR STR

Very attacking system but working great on fm09 version 9.3 .

still looking how best to set up the cb's and sw though.

Cleon or anyone else care to give some advice?

[Genetic Deviant]

have posted my sweeper tactic on my el-tel-tactics-hq thread.

Maybe you could give ur tactical insight? lol

[Sel]

Have you had any luck with a

GK

SW

CB CB

WB WB

CMd CM

AM

ST ST

Im trying to get one to work for my napoli side but i cant for some reason and i havent had a response in the napoli thread either.

[mlyons]

It's pretty difficult to use a Beckenbauer-type libero in FM09, mainly because there just aren't very many accomplished sweepers around with the playmaking skills necessary. Generally you need to take a skillful defensive midfielder, convert him to sweeper, and build a formation around him. I haven't had much luck yet, although I keep trying.

If you just want to use a sweeper as a mop-up defender, though, it works great. I've actually had the best luck with a sweeper using an assymetrical backline, with a sweeper, a central defender, a fullback, and a wingback. The sweeper generally takes care of high balls and last-ditch tackles, while the central defender has the freedom to step up and intercept passes.

[djosey]

On a similar line, has anyone ever thought of including a goalkeeper sweeper? This would mean a goalkeeper playing just behind the defenders and stopping all the through balls, probably combined with high defensive line. I just got the idea, i'll try this evening to see how it works.

edit: oh and before i forget, it seems to me that Kompany would make a good attacking sweeper, his natural position is DC but he is very technical and good with the ball

[JD nawrat]

I love the thought of using a Sweeper. They're interesting positions. The only reason I don't is because I don't know how to set them up properly, and haven't usually got the player required to pull it off...

[Kawee]

I've tried quite a few sweeper formations, and have failed embarrassingly everytime. I've conquered the world with 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2, 4-3-3, etc etc. But everytime I try to play a sweeper formation, I find my offense much weaken, and my defense only very slightly better. But because my offense is weakened, I don't score enough goals, and a lot of the time, I spend more time defending rather than retaining poession thus, more chances of conceding goals.

[dankrzyz]

When you play with a sweeper, does it allow you to play with a higher defensive line? Would you recommend it?