Ineffectual Raumdeuter

[permanentquandary]

How do you get your Raumdeuter to work best?

I have a great player for the job but he is not scoring or getting in behind much at all. The best he has done is make 2 assists from crosses.

Take a look at my setup. I think the problem may be a case of having my DLF on attack.

I feel like I should have a central striker who doesn't move into channels who drops off and holds it up, so would it be best to go with a DLF(S) instead? But then I am worried about overall penetration.

I feel my tactic is very good but this one aspect is bugging me right now. My DLF is actually scoring for fun but the Raumdeuter, comically nicknamed Heskey, makes me feel like I'm playing with 10 men, even though he appears to be a world class fast striker.

[warlock]

Wish I could offer you more advice! He looks ideal for the job... maybe just needs more time in the role and duty? One other thing that occurred to me: perhaps the FBs isn't offering enough support? It might be that he hasn't enough options when he gets the ball.

[Park]

What's your left wingback like? He may be the one most likely to pass/cross to the Raumdeuter. Has he got the acceleration, pace and stamina to get up the wing, and is his crossing/passing/vision good enough?

[permanentquandary]

Just now, warlock said:

Wish I could offer you more advice! He looks ideal for the job... maybe just needs more time in the role and duty? One other thing that occurred to me: perhaps the FBs isn't offering enough support? It might be that he hasn't enough options when he gets the ball.

As I understand it I want this guy to be the last man, not really looking for options. So I should expect the attack to succeed or be broken with him on the ball. So I'm not bothered about him having options so much.

The FB(S) does come up and support him but doesn't overlap. I need that full back to be fairly conservative because the RMD does not track back whatsoever. That's also why I have a DLP on that side, because he has the Hold Position PI as default.

[permanentquandary]

Just now, Park said:

What's your left wingback like? He may be the one most likely to pass/cross to the Raumdeuter. Has he got the acceleration, pace and stamina to get up the wing, and is his crossing/passing/vision good enough?

Behold and gaze in wonder.

[permanentquandary]

My other options at left back.

Novak is obviously better as a defender, but I also use him elsewhere in the team, and he lacks attacking ability somewhat.

[warlock]

4 minutes ago, permanentquandary said:

The FB(S) does come up and support him but doesn't overlap. I need that full back to be fairly conservative because the RMD does not track back whatsoever. That's also why I have a DLP on that side, because he has the Hold Position PI as default.

Understood. I'm just sort of thrashing about here... . I've not played with raumdeuters much, although I'm trying one in my current save with Man Utd - alternating Mata and Lingard. The former assists a lot, that latter scores. I'm also playing Lukaku as a DLF-a so not very different from your setup. Thinking about various Cleon threads - maybe you just need to decide who your main goalscorer is, and proceed accordingly.

[FMunderachiever]

Ive never had much success with Raumdeuters. Even good ones like Muller and Callejon.

Dont seem to see too many supertactics including a Raumdeuter

[Jyuan83]

@permanentquandary i love the look of your heskey, his attributes are point-blank insane! Your left back looks good as well. How about changing your striker to DLF on support? Might work a bit there. Your tactic looks spot on good too. I echo the setiments of the posters above me and agree that the raumdeuter sort of feels like a trequartista without the assigned playmaker tag. Due to his roaming, he will go where there is a chance of space and having space does not necessarily mean it will be space to score goals himself but can be space for him to create for others. In a way if you want a sort pf playmakerish role without making him the focal point, the raumdeuter is the one to go. The inside forward or even inverted winger are your go-to guys for scoring goals from the flanks so far in the games i have played.

[TheJanitor]

When I took a first glance at your tactics I immediately thought about Barca circa 2009, but then I noticed your midfield two are swapped.

Maybe that's what you need? Moving the BBM to the Raumdeuter's side to offer closer support? Oreven changing your DLP's role to something like RPM or AP, but that might come with re-balancing your whole tactic.

[Fritz13]

I play with a RAMD on the left and an IF on the right and they both supply each other

IWB on the left and a APM on the left in the space that the RAMD vacates.

so a 4-1-2-3-0 - SS in the AM slot.

both wide players receive balls out wide from the RPM (right CM), APM and SS ... bomb down the wings and cross for the other wide player at the far post.

 

[herne79]

Think about what a Raumdeuter does.  What's it designed to do?  What does Thomas Muller do?  And, just as importantly, what do the players around him do?

Does a Raumdeuter dribble with the ball into dangerous areas?  No.  Muller himself says he can't dribble.  Does a Raumdeuter use his intelligence to find dangerous positions in and around the box, finding small pockets of space or running the channels?  Yes he does. 

So how is he going to receive the ball in these areas?  Crosses from the opposite flank?  Sometimes sure.  A pass or short cross from an overlapping fullback?  Again perhaps sometimes.  How about a killer ball from a skilful passer in an advanced midfield position?  Absolutely.

I use a Raumdeuter in my 4-1-2-3DM Wide as well, and he scores for fun.  I also use a playmaker in central midfield, but he isn't a DLP.  Why not?  What is he and why?

[summatsupeer]

My first thought is how will your main creator (ap-s) create chances for your RMD?  How often can he play cross field passes to the right from the left? Even if he drifts inside it still needs to be past a lot of defenders so assuming he has the vision to spot the RMD he might not select it.  Plus with a BBM, DLF-A and WB he has many other targets that are likely a better chance of success.

I use a AP behind an attack duty ST with a RMD and they score for fun.  I also have a 433 DM Wide like you, but my AML is a IF-S and I have a creator nearer the RMD in CM.

[permanentquandary]

6 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

My first thought is how will your main creator (ap-s) create chances for your RMD?  How often can he play cross field passes to the right from the left? Even if he drifts inside it still needs to be past a lot of defenders so assuming he has the vision to spot the RMD he might not select it.  Plus with a BBM, DLF-A and WB he has many other targets that are likely a better chance of success.

I use a AP behind an attack duty ST with a RMD and they score for fun.  I also have a 433 DM Wide like you, but my AML is a IF-S and I have a creator nearer the RMD in CM.

 

Got a screenshot so I can compare?

[alanschu14]

To echo but yeah I suspect the Raum is somewhat isolated. I didn't even think of the AP on the left wing which will draw the ball away from the Raumdeuter, but even the DLP might be a bit too far away and the striker is looking to push forward a lot too.

I use a Raum in my 4-3-3/4-1-2-3 DM from time to time on my right wing, but if I have a playmaker I usually have them at MCR so they are pretty close together.  I also have a quality DLF-S with excellent passing and vision and they can help hit the Raum.  My raum doesn't score a whole lot though so my own tactic could probably be refined, but I do get the feeling that they are threatening and get good chances for shots and crosses.