Mike7077 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Not trying to be sexual but apart from physio female are not in these league I assume you meant sexist! I certainly hope you weren't trying to be sexual! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Not really it isn't. Every female in the game is treated as a male wether that female tickbox is checked or not. I helped one woman to become a manager of Chelsea But it took me one season to make it happen. (Oh! Sorry! It was me who beat her) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 I even tried to flirt with her but she didn't react at all! Only praised Fernando Torres after the match. And now she has a poor opinion of me Of course, in media news she is called he, his, him... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGeady10 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 No. Its just a way of the game refering to a person who is playing the game on their computer properly. Instead of calling a female he in the game it will correctly call them she. I wish to god people would stop over reacting to this issue. If there really was a female in charge of a real life top club like Arsenal, Chelsea, Barcelona or AC Milan or whatever whould it really cause all that much of a problem if she was able to do the job. "IF SHE WAS ABLE TO DO THE JOB" That is a huge IF! You can't understand the game without playing it to some kind of level (don't give me Wenger, Mourinho cause both those guys although not decorated pro's were pro's). Woman's football even at the highest level is not even comparable with youth team football. Women do not know enough about football IMHO to manage any team above primary school level (that said the same applies to a number of males - before I'm accused of being sexist). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 "IF SHE WAS ABLE TO DO THE JOB"That is a huge IF! You can't understand the game without playing it to some kind of level (don't give me Wenger, Mourinho cause both those guys although not decorated pro's were pro's). Woman's football even at the highest level is not even comparable with youth team football. Women do not know enough about football IMHO to manage any team above primary school level (that said the same applies to a number of males - before I'm accused of being sexist). In the game it will depend on her abilities Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakhabbit Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Let's also assume that people can be open-minded and base judgements on ability and not any form of prejudice. sadly bad things happen/get said when you assume things like that. it's a nice move by SI all very p.c. no offence mcgeady10, but your wrong on so many levels .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Nick Habershon Posted October 29, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted October 29, 2008 On the subject of who should be allowed to manage a football club (or indeed work in any sphere of employment), just as with race or age, no-one should have a problem or even be questioning it if the person is able to do the job to the required level. Saying that women's football even at the highest level is not even comparable with youth team football is a moot point. It's not about playing to the same physical standard as men, it's about man-mangement, tactical awareness, discipline, courage and a whole host of other attributes that women can excel at just as easily as men. Yes, no-one is denying that football is a male-dominated sport but that is the very reason that many women don't follow or are put off from being involved in football in the first place. Those that do get involved should not be prevented to do so by small-mindedness and actively encouraged to take their love for the game as far as they can. The feature is in FM 2009 because women play FM and should be able to play as females. There are some narrow-minded views expressed in this thread but this is a healthy debate and by encouraging this sort of debate and awareness then in the long-term that can only be a positive thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 You can't understand the game without playing it to some kind of level (don't give me Wenger, Mourinho cause both those guys although not decorated pro's were pro's).Woman's football even at the highest level is not even comparable with youth team football. Women do not know enough about football IMHO to manage any team above primary school level (that said the same applies to a number of males - before I'm accused of being sexist). What a load of crap! I had avoided making any contribution to this joke of a thread (a subject that bas been discussed many times since the feature was announced), but I can't believe how narrow minded and tbh thick some people are that use these forums (not necessarily aimed at mcgeady10, it applies to a lot of people who have spewed their nonsense in this thread). It's a matter of ticking a box that says male rather than ticking female, and after that it won't ever affect you again. Then again I can understand why some of the people in this thread are worried about it, they are so inept they'll have to deliberate for hours over which tick box is which Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 On the subject of who should be allowed to manage a football club (or indeed work in any sphere of employment), just as with race or age, no-one should have a problem or even be questioning it if the person is able to do the job to the required level.Saying that women's football even at the highest level is not even comparable with youth team football is a moot point. It's not about playing to the same physical standard as men, it's about man-mangement, tactical awareness, discipline, courage and a whole host of other attributes that women can excel at just as easily as men. I'd like to think that, living in the 21st century, we could all agree that the days of discriminating against people on the basis of anything other than ability and merit have gone. I also agree with the point that women are as capable at excelling in the areas mentioned as men are. The only argument I would make is that I believe it is valid to question whether a person can truly hope to be a successful manager of a football club (at least at the highest level) without having played the game themselves. I don't know personally what I think about that, but I do think it's a valid question. The feature is in FM 2009 because women play FM and should be able to play as females. There are some narrow-minded views expressed in this thread but this is a healthy debate and by encouraging this sort of debate and awareness then in the long-term that can only be a positive thing. It is indeed a healthy debate and I am delighted that the feature is there in FM09. But I'm not sure some of the views being expressed are as narrow-minded as they may seem at first. A lot of them seem concerned with realism rather than any sexist attitudes (although I suppose they could be using realism as a cloak for what their real problem is). I don't have any truck with the notion that allowing a human manager to be female damages realism in the game because it doesn't. But I can see why a host of female AI managers popping up might bother people because it would certainly not be realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Here is a screenshot of the female manager I was talking about: I only increased her CA and PA in FMM to make the proccess faster but it wasn't decisive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGeady10 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 It's a game of opinion lads... I just think mens football is a males game and that woman will never have the knowledge, experience or respect of professional players to manage a team. If that makes me sexist then I guess every chairman in world football is sexist too cause none of them have employed a female manager. Anyway I feel this is getting off topic. If the option is in it purely to give girls who play the game a better experience I 100% am in favor of it. If it leads to regen female managers I'm 100% against it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see... Also in light of the current 3D thread. Will woman managers be womanlike in the 3D mode? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 What a load of crap! I had avoided making any contribution to this joke of a thread (a subject that bas been discussed many times since the feature was announced), but I can't believe how narrow minded and tbh thick some people are that use these forums (not necessarily aimed at mcgeady10, it applies to a lot of people who have spewed their nonsense in this thread). It's a matter of ticking a box that says male rather than ticking female, and after that it won't ever affect you again. Then again I can understand why some of the people in this thread are worried about it, they are so inept they'll have to deliberate for hours over which tick box is which It's a bit like the whole re-loading issue. I'm having a really hard time getting it through to people that, whatever they think about it, it won't have any effect on their game whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 It's a game of opinion lads... I just think mens football is a males game and that woman will never have the knowledge, experience or respect of professional players to manage a team. If that makes me sexist then I guess every chairman in world football is sexist too cause none of them have employed a female manager. Anyway I feel this is getting off topic. If the option is in it purely to give girls who play the game a better experience I 100% am in favor of it. If it leads to regen female managers I'm 100% against it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...Also in light of the current 3D thread. Will woman managers be womanlike in the 3D mode? Except that you have no evidence that chairmen believe women "will never have the knowledge, experience or respect of professional players to manage a team." All you can really say is that no women are currently qualified. The fact that you believe they never will be does, I'm afraid, mark you out as narrow-minded and sexist. But incidentally, I'm sure there are chairmen who would agree with you. They are sexist too. Shame on you all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Rudd Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 After Steve McLaren was sacked as England manager, there were a few people writing into newspapers recommending that Hope Powell be his successor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Here is her personal info: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Nick Habershon Posted October 29, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted October 29, 2008 I'd like to think that, living in the 21st century, we could all agree that the days of discriminating against people on the basis of anything other than ability and merit have gone. I also agree with the point that women are as capable at excelling in the areas mentioned as men are. The only argument I would make is that I believe it is valid to question whether a person can truly hope to be a successful manager of a football club (at least at the highest level) without having played the game themselves. I don't know personally what I think about that, but I do think it's a valid question. It is certainly a valid question and my own personal opinion is that football can be a self-preserving sport in some respects. As such I think there is a big difference in asking whether someone can truly hope to be or whether they could be a successful manager without having played at the highest level. Very few get the chance to try. Clive Woodward at Southampton might be an example of one of the more public instances of the 'you're not a footballer so I'm not listening to what you have to say' attitude. It is indeed a healthy debate and I am delighted that the feature is there in FM09. But I'm not sure some of the views being expressed are as narrow-minded as they may seem at first. A lot of them seem concerned with realism rather than any sexist attitudes (although I suppose they could be using realism as a cloak for what their real problem is). I don't have any truck with the notion that allowing a human manager to be female damages realism in the game because it doesn't. But I can see why a host of female AI managers popping up might bother people because it would certainly not be realistic. People can rest assured that there won't be female regen managers popping up and taking over the football world. For me, it's chicken and egg to a certain extent as although I'd like to see more females involved in football, we're a management simulation which strives to give the most realistic portrayal of the football world (warts n all?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGeady10 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Except that you have no evidence that chairmen believe women "will never have the knowledge, experience or respect of professional players to manage a team." All you can really say is that no women are currently qualified. The fact that you believe they never will be does, I'm afraid, mark you out as narrow-minded and sexist.But incidentally, I'm sure there are chairmen who would agree with you. They are sexist too. Shame on you all. How does that make me sexist? They will never have the knowledge because there will never be a female who will have the phyisical attributes to play mens football and gain that knowledge. They will never have the experience because of the same reason. I won't even debate if a female manager would get the respect of a dressing room because if you think they would you're living in cloud cuckoo land. Rightly or wrongly a squad of 20 male footballers would not readily accept a female manager with an open mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Our interaction's page: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 How does that make me sexist?They will never have the knowledge because there will never be a female who will have the phyisical attributes to play mens football and gain that knowledge. They will never have the experience because of the same reason. I won't even debate if a female manager would get the respect of a dressing room because if you think they would you're living in cloud cuckoo land. Rightly or wrongly a squad of 20 male footballers would not readily accept a female manager with an open mind. Things change, though. True, send a woman into a dressing room and I also doubt she'd get the respect she should. However, we can't say it will always be this way because societies move on. There is a time in the not-too-distant past when I'm sure Paul Ince couldn't have gotten respect from a dressing room full of football players. Now, granted, black males had the advantage of playing the game (at least by Ince's time), but still.. You cannot claim that no woman will ever be able to command the dressing room. Women fight in armies. Women run countries. Compared to that, commanding a dressing room full of sexist ignorami seems almost a doddle! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Nick Habershon Posted October 29, 2008 SI Staff Share Posted October 29, 2008 How does that make me sexist?They will never have the knowledge because there will never be a female who will have the phyisical attributes to play mens football and gain that knowledge. They will never have the experience because of the same reason. I won't even debate if a female manager would get the respect of a dressing room because if you think they would you're living in cloud cuckoo land. Rightly or wrongly a squad of 20 male footballers would not readily accept a female manager with an open mind. I think this is to start from the wrong premise. Does someone need to play the game? There are many footballers who play the game and will never have the character or attributes to be managers, nor could they ever be. Who is anyone to say that females couldn't take their apprenticeships with top managers or coaches and move through the ranks, just as many male assistant managers and coaches do. It might be sadly true that in the current footballing world a squad of footballers would not readily accept a female manager but if women were actively encouraged to be involved and integrated into the management and coaching side of the game at all levels, just as with other successful forms of anti-discrimination policy, acceptance and respect would be more forthcoming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET-Taylor Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 A Woman manager would be better than Bertie Vogts did at Scotland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 From her career page you can see that she wasn't created: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Chelsea's board offered her a contract to become the club's manager when she was a couch at the club. So she is the first female manager I have ever seen in the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 She learns fast, she did well in her first season as a manager and she is in love with Essian and Bridge : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigman1985 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 cmon man, enough of this complete pc play up we all know that we wont see women in the mens game, why should we? it is a mans sport, they cant relate to it in the same context as they can the womens game due to the physical differences, and i don't think any player would want a female manager due to women not being involved with football since its conception till recently with female linesmen and the awful jackie oatley on motd im not sexist generally, but when it comes to prem/continental football, it's a mans game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 cmon man, enough of this complete pc play upwe all know that we wont see women in the mens game, why should we? it is a mans sport, they cant relate to it in the same context as they can the womens game due to the physical differences, and i don't think any player would want a female manager due to women not being involved with football since its conception till recently with female linesmen and the awful jackie oatley on motd im not sexist generally, but when it comes to prem/continental football, it's a mans game That would almost have been funny if it wasn't so sad. Where do you get the right to declare a sport to be out of bounds to an entire gender? Who made you so important? Things evolve and change, including football. Football has only been a man's game for so long because it originated in less enlightened times. Thankfully, society moves on. There'll be few disgruntled knuckle-draggers complaining, but so be it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 After the second season she suddenly left Chelsea for Bayern Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Rudd Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 We already see women in the men's game, and one of the roles in the game in which we see them is "physio". Now in FM that is just a staff role, and it's entirely possible in-game for a physio to end up as a manager; thus the game could potentially end up with AI women in managerial roles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 We already see women in the men's game, and one of the roles in the game in which we see them is "physio". Now in FM that is just a staff role, and it's entirely possible in-game for a physio to end up as a manager; thus the game could potentially end up with AI women in managerial roles. I've got one female physio in my club and I try to convince her to become a couch for the beginning - still refusing my offeres. It will be harder than to convince a couch to become a manager. We'll wait and see... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACFergie86 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 i think its a good feature but i wont be using it (because im a boy). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cullen89 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Football is a game for men and therefore FM should replicate this accurately. End of story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 We already see women in the men's game, and one of the roles in the game in which we see them is "physio". Now in FM that is just a staff role, and it's entirely possible in-game for a physio to end up as a manager; thus the game could potentially end up with AI women in managerial roles. Football is a game for men and therefore FM should replicate this accurately. End of story. I thought ice hockey was a game for men!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Football is a game for men and therefore FM should replicate this accurately. End of story. How does you saying something make it end of story? How did you become so important? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thnigelfc Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I see you've met my girlfriend then..... seriously isnt there a suzy mcfc or something like that who appears on here. Sure she will be happy playing as a female for a change.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakhabbit Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 A few small reminders for the people saying this is a bad thing 1) It is an option for the women who PLAY the game to make thier ingame self female, and be referred to as such. 2) SI have said there will not be female AI managers appearing at every club. 3) If you don't tick the box on starting the game, it WILL NOT affect you. So bugger off back to your caves, and keep your narrowminded sexist 15th century views to yourselves, you make me ashamed to admit to being a man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazza Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I think that all you guys who are saying that the game should not have female managers for all your various stereo typical sexist views are just scared. It challenges your sexuality, masculinity and outmoded values. Presumably you are not young guys not in the 21st centurt surely. If you are, shame on you! I think I will become Kazzatrina and manage a top team and beat all those hairy, swearing and intellectually challenged male managers in FM09. Can't wait bring it on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krist69 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 my other half plays FM whenever she can, and she's looking forward to being a female manager in FM. on a harsher note, some of the chauvinistic views and opinions in this thread are enough to put any female off contributing, its cringeworthy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 seriously isnt there a suzy mcfc or something like that who appears on here.Sure she will be happy playing as a female for a change.. Yeah there is and I know of 3 more female posters on these forums as well. I cant believe what people have against this option. As said many times by several people it is only an option to have female players referred to as she/her etc. I dont want female regen managers popping up throughout the game as it would unrealistic at the moment but anyone who thinks it can't happen in the future in reality may be wrong as we dont know. First of all you dont need to play football at a high level to become a good manager and secondly women could gain the respect of males in the dressing room as it is based on their character and ability to do the job in my opinion. I am not saying that it will happen or it won't as I dont know but they are some narrow minded people on here that are certain that it won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET-Taylor Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 does that mean there will be female regens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 does that mean there will be female regens No, it is just an option for the user to be female. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayanami80 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 My under 18's coach was a female and she used to advise on youth teams for the local clubs around here in Sydney. I think she used to play in Italy a while ago. She was a great manager, granted not on EPL level. I dont understand all the scared sexist views coming out in this thread. Quite amusing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjm Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The "it's not realistic" brigade are missing the crux if the issue. The question is not "is it realistic to have female managers?", but instead "is it realistic for women to play the game?" I think you should let the women decide - it's their choice after all. As to why you don't know of many women playing the game - if they've any sense they'll not tell you on these boards. For some reason, a large number of males seem to think that finding out that someone is female online equals an instant carte blanche to start trying the smarmiest and cringe-worthiest of chat up techniques - despite the fact women probably, like you, come to these boards to discuss the game rather than to use it as an online dating service. Most women don't appreciate this rather pathetic behaviour, and once bitten, twice shy. To see what I mean, just log on to an internet chat room with an androgynous nick (or an obviously female one if you're feeling really brave ), and marvel at the utter desperation of an alarmingly high proportion of the male population that descend upon you like vultures within the blinking of an eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I'm waiting for the 'some of my best friends are women' quote. Sometimes I think we should just go back to living in caves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSCCG Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I'd like to come back and point out that "I'm not sexist, except for when...." Is still sexist. Just cos it has never happened before doesn't mean it never will, just because it is unlikely doesn't mean it won't either. Basic reasoning. Not playing football at a high level doesn't apply. You can knock women's football all you want, but I would argue that no matter what level you play, its about knowing the structure of a professional sport and a club etc rather than actually playing it that matters. Hence occasionally a rugby coach will go and coach a football team and vice versa. Anyway, we don't know how much coding goes into making this function. If it was very simple, it didn't take much time, and doesn't affect the games of people who don't feel that it is realistic, why are people so bothered? I'm waiting for the 'some of my best friends are women' quote. Sometimes I think we should just go back to living in caves. some of my best friends ARE women! Omg how did you guess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlayerX Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Will there be regen female managers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Will there be regen female managers? No. No AI or regen female managers. Only ones you create either when you start a new game or in the editor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyinuk Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 "IF SHE WAS ABLE TO DO THE JOB"That is a huge IF! You can't understand the game without playing it to some kind of level (don't give me Wenger, Mourinho cause both those guys although not decorated pro's were pro's). Woman's football even at the highest level is not even comparable with youth team football. Women do not know enough about football IMHO to manage any team above primary school level (that said the same applies to a number of males - before I'm accused of being sexist). by that logic you shouldn't be playing the game either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
V1adimir Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 No. No AI or regen female managers. Only ones you create either when you start a new game or in the editor. I guess there wil be several AI female managers, becuase there are some in RL (see the posts above). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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