What determines Youth Recruitment level?

[Rynny]

On 1/12/2017 at 16:23, Ceching You Out said:

That's the first time I've heard the last part mentioned as a factor -- do you mean  buying more means less ability to upgrade? Or vice versa?

Hello @Ceching You Out

I mean buying in talent makes upgrades to youth facilities less likely. After all, if you're getting the players you need by buying them in ready made, why spend millions on a youth academy?

[Bedese]

6 hours ago, champmanlegend said:

How often do you check whether the option to upgrade the youth recruitment level is present?

Where the AI may have an advantage is that as soon as the option is made available by the board, the AI manager may invoke the upgrade. You as a human manager may only check once a month or so and there may be times where the upgrade is available for a short period of time but not invoked. There could be specific conditions that cause it to appear and then disappear.

Of course, this theory does also imply that the AI manager has a distinct advantage in that they can request upgrades as soon as they are available whereas a human manager would have to be very thorough to identify the upgrade time.

I can't speak for @Ceching You Out or @BoxToBox, but I must admit that I wasn't checking all that regularly if it was present.

4 hours ago, Torminator said:

I always thought (but have no proof or whatevery) that club reputation is based on two reputations, the club as a whole (based on performance) and the players reputation. Re-gens and youth products have less player reputation. Maybe signing 'big money transfers' has a impact on youth recruitment levels. 

In real life i can imagine  youth players signing for a youth setup because of the players in the senior team.

Aye, it's a good theory. I think player reputation may definitely have a role to play.

1 hour ago, Rynny said:

Hello @Ceching You Out

I mean buying in talent makes upgrades to youth facilities less likely. After all, if you're getting the players you need by buying them in ready made, why spend millions on a youth academy?

If that's the case, surely the AI teams would be at a disadvantage? 

[BoxToBox]

10 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

I can't speak for @Ceching You Out or @BoxToBox, but I must admit that I wasn't checking all that regularly if it was present.

I was, and am, constantly.

[Ceching You Out]

6 hours ago, champmanlegend said:

How often do you check whether the option to upgrade the youth recruitment level is present?

Where the AI may have an advantage is that as soon as the option is made available by the board, the AI manager may invoke the upgrade. You as a human manager may only check once a month or so and there may be times where the upgrade is available for a short period of time but not invoked. There could be specific conditions that cause it to appear and then disappear.

Of course, this theory does also imply that the AI manager has a distinct advantage in that they can request upgrades as soon as they are available whereas a human manager would have to be very thorough to identify the upgrade time.

 

24 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

I can't speak for @Ceching You Out or @BoxToBox, but I must admit that I wasn't checking all that regularly if it was present.

Even if it may not ultimately hold water (based on @BoxToBox's response), this was a great suggestion. I hadn't thought of that and it makes a certain sense; I only check once every other game-month or so.

 

5 hours ago, Torminator said:

I always thought (but have no proof or whatevery) that club reputation is based on two reputations, the club as a whole (based on performance) and the players reputation. Re-gens and youth products have less player reputation. Maybe signing 'big money transfers' has a impact on youth recruitment levels. 

In real life i can imagine  youth players signing for a youth setup because of the players in the senior team.

Another very good idea. Human managers tend to look for value-for-money players to sign, typically young and with room to grow. Those players generally have lower reputations than the type of players the AI managers tend to purchase; I think reputation is actually one of the criteria AI managers use. Anyway for you to retrospectively compare in your save @Jupjamie?

[BoxToBox]

Surely, in my case though, IF couldn't possibly buy players close to the rep of the pair of strikers I have who have been heavily chased by top division clubs, one of whom has had 30-40m bids from some of the best clubs.

[Bedese]

30 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

Another very good idea. Human managers tend to look for value-for-money players to sign, typically young and with room to grow. Those players generally have lower reputations than the type of players the AI managers tend to purchase; I think reputation is actually one of the criteria AI managers use. Anyway for you to retrospectively compare in your save @Jupjamie?

Unfortunately I don't think there's a way to look at player reputations without the ingame editor, which can't be used on my save. I agree with @BoxToBox, though - his players are almost certainly going to have a higher reputation than the ones IF are bringing in. @BoxToBox, is there any chance of a picture of some of the players they've been signing?

[BoxToBox]

29 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

Unfortunately I don't think there's a way to look at player reputations without the ingame editor, which can't be used on my save. I agree with @BoxToBox, though - his players are almost certainly going to have a higher reputation than the ones IF are bringing in. @BoxToBox, is there any chance of a picture of some of the players they've been signing?

Olson is listed as their key player(and wants to leave), Thomsen was their biggest fee paid(to me), and Alber was the best player they brought in this pre-season(to be fair, better than all of my keepers, ex-Freiburg).

The other big club is Vikingur Gota, they're better than IF usually, but only have the same recruitment as me, though they got it much sooner. Here's the same, for them.

Aydin is their best, ex-Schalke, Ellingsgaard their biggest spend(again from me), and Banna is the best from the latest window(ex-Lorient).

EDIT: For the sake of comparison, here are my three best players, also remember they've been playing regularly in the Champions League all of their careers.

[Guest]

What about the influence of youth coaching & to a lesser extent youth facilities? There was a mention of both early on in the thread but not much since.

My hypothesis is that as youith recruitement is just a representation of how far our under the hood youth scouts look for young talent to bring through before they appear as newgens it could be that with better youth coaching than rivals the club is already getting the best young talent in their catchment & therefore there is no need to look farther afield for the next crop of players.

A secondary thought is with so much focus on the youth recruittment value has anyone looked at the ability & potential of each club;'s youth intakes over the last decade? Once again the thought process being why increase spending on someting when there's no need to do so. 

[Ceching You Out]

1 hour ago, BoxToBox said:

Surely, in my case though, IF couldn't possibly buy players close to the rep of the pair of strikers I have who have been heavily chased by top division clubs, one of whom has had 30-40m bids from some of the best clubs.

At times I've found a substantial difference between ability and reputation; occasionally there's only a loose correlation. Players that start at top tier clubs seem to start with high reputations regardless of their ability. I'd imagine your much-desired striker has a decently high rep though. In my experience, being wanted usually requires a reputation and/or potential on par with the interested clubs.

Maybe acquiring a player yields different outcomes than bringing one through the academy? I could see some logic to that. Fans and media tend to recognize outside purchases more than internally developed youth, at least as far as generating word of mouth. When I use the scouting screen to sort all players currently in Luxembourg by reputation, one of the top 5 is a young 2 star PCA & PPA player that was a desperation purchase by a rival club. He hasn't moved mountains at Differdange. Assuming the sorting works the way I would expect, his reputation jumped as a result of the transfer. Perhaps the purchasing club sees a similar reaction?

 

37 minutes ago, Barside said:

What about the influence of youth coaching & to a lesser extent youth facilities? There was a mention of both early on in the thread but not much since.

My hypothesis is that as youith recruitement is just a representation of how far our under the hood youth scouts look for young talent to bring through before they appear as newgens it could be that with better youth coaching than rivals the club is already getting the best young talent in their catchment & therefore there is no need to look farther afield for the next crop of players.

A secondary thought is with so much focus on the youth recruittment value has anyone looked at the ability & potential of each club;'s youth intakes over the last decade? Once again the thought process being why increase spending on someting when there's no need to do so. 

That thought had crossed my mind, but it seemed less plausible than other options at the time. It certainly is one area where the human manager would differ from the AI managers; they don't max out their junior coaching. I've had it at the highest level ("Exceptional") for two decades in my Luxembourg save. The quality of players coming though has improved over that time, as has club reputation.

I suppose there could be a combined limitation, for example Youth Recruitment + Youth Coaching <= Limit. That could be something additional to test @Jupjamie? Not sure it fully explains what he experienced in his San Marino save when he let the AI take over though. Why would the AI manager taking over be able to upgrade Youth Recruitment under the same circumstances, except for poorer transfers and results? Unless bad results encourage the investment. I can't reasonably rule that out other than it seems to run contrary to the board's decision making elsewhere. Generally, if you perform better you get more options in FM.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

. Why would the AI manager taking over be able to upgrade Youth Recruitment under the same circumstances, except for poorer transfers and results? Unless bad results encourage the investment. I can't reasonably rule that out other than it seems to run contrary to the board's decision making elsewhere. Generally, if you perform better you get more options in FM.

In line with my thinking maybe the youth coaching/facilities were downgraded either dynamically or by the AI manager suggesting less needed to be spent. I suspect when working in smaller nations there is a balance to find with the three youth values & the goal is to spend the least amout possible for the best return & it stands to reason that the cost difference between 18-20 YC is much higher than 3-6 YR while it could be that 18YC/6YR wil give the same average result as 20YC/3YR.

[Bedese]

6 hours ago, Ceching You Out said:

At times I've found a substantial difference between ability and reputation; occasionally there's only a loose correlation. Players that start at top tier clubs seem to start with high reputations regardless of their ability. I'd imagine your much-desired striker has a decently high rep though. In my experience, being wanted usually requires a reputation and/or potential on par with the interested clubs.

Maybe acquiring a player yields different outcomes than bringing one through the academy? I could see some logic to that. Fans and media tend to recognize outside purchases more than internally developed youth, at least as far as generating word of mouth. When I use the scouting screen to sort all players currently in Luxembourg by reputation, one of the top 5 is a young 2 star PCA & PPA player that was a desperation purchase by a rival club. He hasn't moved mountains at Differdange. Assuming the sorting works the way I would expect, his reputation jumped as a result of the transfer. Perhaps the purchasing club sees a similar reaction?

 

That thought had crossed my mind, but it seemed less plausible than other options at the time. It certainly is one area where the human manager would differ from the AI managers; they don't max out their junior coaching. I've had it at the highest level ("Exceptional") for two decades in my Luxembourg save. The quality of players coming though has improved over that time, as has club reputation.

I suppose there could be a combined limitation, for example Youth Recruitment + Youth Coaching <= Limit. That could be something additional to test @Jupjamie? Not sure it fully explains what he experienced in his San Marino save when he let the AI take over though. Why would the AI manager taking over be able to upgrade Youth Recruitment under the same circumstances, except for poorer transfers and results? Unless bad results encourage the investment. I can't reasonably rule that out other than it seems to run contrary to the board's decision making elsewhere. Generally, if you perform better you get more options in FM.

 

5 hours ago, Barside said:

In line with my thinking maybe the youth coaching/facilities were downgraded either dynamically or by the AI manager suggesting less needed to be spent. I suspect when working in smaller nations there is a balance to find with the three youth values & the goal is to spend the least amout possible for the best return & it stands to reason that the cost difference between 18-20 YC is much higher than 3-6 YR while it could be that 18YC/6YR wil give the same average result as 20YC/3YR.

Good theories. I'll test the idea that lower Junior Coaching could impact on Youth Recruitment when I get the chance - not sure when that'll be yet. The coaching/facilities were the same in both the human and AI save, so no changes there unfortunately.

[Guest]

Don't forget about the actual players coming through each youh system.

[rimisark]

I dont have In game editor. Is there way to view National Youth rating in your saves @BoxToBox @Jupjamie

[BoxToBox]

Not without the editor, as far as I know.

EDIT: Wait, for the national youth rating you could check the pre-game editor.

[rimisark]

46 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

 

EDIT: Wait, for the national youth rating you could check the pre-game editor.

Yes, I know it. But it is good to know how is changed during the game or it is static.

[BoxToBox]

I believe it's static, but could be wrong.

[Guest]

It's a static value.

[rimisark]

However, I think it is more to quality.

After reading the entire thread, I think the problem is in SI. In such small countries almost every body will want to be in best club in the country (best reputation and facilities).

[rimisark]

I was playing in Tahiti, Won 3 times in a row First Division, Tahitian Cup, Oceania Champions league, 4th place in Club World Championship. First and only fully professional club in Tahiti. 2nd club and league reputation in Oceania, 2 stars. Same as 1st - New Zealand. Upgraded 2 times youth facilities, youth coaching and training facilities. Never ever had chance to improve youth recruitment, only cut back optional is available.

One question, is this attribute measure national range or international?

From passion4fm,  Published 03/12/2014 |  
 Updated 12 January 2016 2:03 PM

Quote

 

The Football Manager youth recruitment can be described as the level of scouting network range – aka how many players it reaches and the quality of these players. The clubs youth recruitment system are very much tied to its reputation. Better reputation will not only make it more likely that better regens will like to join your training academy, but also that players from all over the world will look to it as the main option to reach world class standard.

A low youth recruitment will not only limit the regens to “unwanted” local regens but also make it more likely to get regens with less potential in the annual youth intake. This can be compared to the network and reputation of the Spanish Barcelona, who have many youth academies, scouts and coaches around the world, who is constantly trying to develop and find top talents for the La Masia academy – the final step for all young players before being able to compete for a place in the first team.

 

From mrkeysirensie.wordpress, 2015/04/30

Quote

If you want youngsters with the greatest potential, you have to look on the size of the area in which you can search new players. This obviously applies to your scouts. If you play for Real Madrid, you have unlimited possibilities and you can search for players around the world, which means that the recruitment of new players is a strong likelihood that there will be youngsters from other countries than from Spain. However, in the case of clubs from lower leagues it is quite the opposite and the recruitment of young players mainly a local matter.

After reading this (I dont know is there are actual up to date), both says SCOUTS. I'm wondering now, is Scouting knowledge can be factor here?

[Bedese]

Yeah, Youth Rating is (afaik) static. Interesting find @rimisark. Looks like Scouting Knowledge is definitely something to test out.

[Guest]

I spent a number of years working on the scouting module & unless something radical changed on FM16 or 17 scouting knowledge should be have not impact as it links to a different module in FM.

[Bedese]

7 hours ago, Barside said:

Don't forget about the actual players coming through each youh system.

For sure. I'm trying to work out the best way of getting a decent reading on their quality because the save has attribute masking. I reckon I'll make a new manager with 20 player knowledge/youngster knowledge at one of the other San Marino teams.

[Bedese]

Just now, Barside said:

I spent a number of years working on the scouting module & unless something radical changed on FM16 or 17 scouting knowledge should be have not impact as it links to a different module in FM.

Interesting. I really doubt that they've changed the way Youth Recruitment works on 16 and 17 - especially because @Ceching You Out is on FM 15 and having the same problems.

[Ceching You Out]

Seconding @Barside's comment -- I have a pretty impressive scouting network in my Avenir Beggen save and haven't noticed a difference. I thought knowledge of other regions/countries might spark seeing those nationalities in my intake, but no luck. Does help with knowledge of staff though.

Did FM15 have an SI supported IGE? Is it still available somewhere? At this point I don't mind cracking my own save open for more data, just not sure where to find the tools to do it.

[Mr U Rosler]

Interesting thread.

I agree some exploration into player quality would be good, I'm doing a youth challenge with Dulwich Hamlet and in my very first intake (before I upgraded anything) I got a player who is now rated as having potential for League 1 (4 divisions higher), this is 3 years on and he's still only 19, I suspect by the time he's finished he will be rated as good for Championship.  This is with Part Time training, rubbish coaches and facilities. Had he come through an established academy he likely would have become even better than this.

If a player of this quality can be produced with the most basic level of youth recruitment and facilities perhaps we are placing too much emphasis on its relevance/importance?

Additionally, somewhat contradicting the above point, considering from day one the only new players in the game are re-gens, it would be understandable why producing quality regens could be a hard coded priority for all AI teams as the entire viability of the game would depend on this once all the 'real' players start disappearing after 10 -15 years. Hundreds of teams requiring 1000's of players to fill their squads with enough quality so there is seamless transition from old (real players) to new (regens)  and the tricky bit where squad composition is mixed. 

 

This didn't seem to be an issue last year, I seem to remember being able upgrade this a few times and I certainly produced England Internationals from my academy.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Jupjamie said:

For sure. I'm trying to work out the best way of getting a decent reading on their quality because the save has attribute masking. I reckon I'll make a new manager with 20 player knowledge/youngster knowledge at one of the other San Marino teams.

Genie Scout can read the data to give you exact values

[mjaferrie]

Another thing I thought of is that many of us who are doing Youth saves have been moving the entire youth squad into the senior squad right from the off, and just making them available for the youth team.  Could it be that the board then thinks youth isn't important, if there is technically no youth team?

[enigmatic]

Has anyone reported this as a possible bug yet? Seems more likely that there's a bug in the logic which means the option isn't available to human managers as often as it should be than that there's some totally logical reason why this particular type of upgrade is rarely ever available to long term human managers to even ask for, despite Youth Recruitment being not infrequently upgraded by other clubs.

Especially since it's not the sort of thing that 99.99% of players or testers would be likely to notice...

[rimisark]

@Jupjamie @BoxToBox or someone else who have same problem. Can anyone give me from Genie Scout, FMRT or editor, values of their Club Reputation and Youth Recruitment (integers) 

EDIT: Or share your files, I will look by myself.

[rimisark]

Hi, guys. Yesterday all evening long tested this issue. Small database 4,2k players. Add new manager and checked, is it available option to upgrade YR. My English is very bad and it is little hard to explain conclusions. I will be thankful, If anyone helps with explanation.

In summary I think its availability depends  from Club Reputation (mostly from this, think) and from Competition reputation. Worst is, that I think there is some hidden country factor which is hard coded may be, from that also depends YR upgrade.

Because in Singapore, maxed all other factors which is for country and environment, and in same levels of Club and Competition reputation with Real and Barcelona still not available to upgrade at Tampines. 

Take a look, I will be pleased to hear your opinions.

 

 

 

Edit: I can upload the Excel file, If this screenshots are too small.

[Willigenburg]

Niel Brock answered in the Ask SI Anything thread:

13 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Asked the coder responsible about this, he said as follows:

Quote

It has changed since a bit as we added the Nation Youth Rating which covers the national talent pool aspect. however each club has an expected youth recruitment value that acts as a guideline for the board on what level they should be on. That is based on the club reputation, nation league standard (top division rep), professional status, financial status as well as level of youth facilities and junior coaching,

So in other words, as the league and team improves so too potentially can your youth intake. Hope that's clear. 

It doesn't really seem to give a fulfilling answer as to why the other clubs are getting the option to upgrade, when @BoxToBox's club has better club reputation, financial status and youth facilities/junior coaching.

[BoxToBox]

If anything, it's more explaining how the mechanic should work, rather than how it is working.

EDIT: Unless my club started with a lower than average "expected youth recruitment value" since it started as a 2nd division club unlike IF and Vikingur Gota.

[rimisark]

2 hours ago, BoxToBox said:

If anything, it's more explaining how the mechanic should work, rather than how it is working.

EDIT: Unless my club started with a lower than average "expected youth recruitment value" since it started as a 2nd division club unlike IF and Vikingur Gota.

I answered him, for me it should work, but i think it  is not working (properly).

[Bedese]

On 17/01/2017 at 17:00, mjaferrie said:

Another thing I thought of is that many of us who are doing Youth saves have been moving the entire youth squad into the senior squad right from the off, and just making them available for the youth team.  Could it be that the board then thinks youth isn't important, if there is technically no youth team?

I personally move my decent prospects into the senior team, but I leave a whole load (usually anyone under 1* CA) in the youth team. There's usually a mass of them in there.

12 hours ago, rimisark said:

Hi, guys. Yesterday all evening long tested this issue. Small database 4,2k players. Add new manager and checked, is it available option to upgrade YR. My English is very bad and it is little hard to explain conclusions. I will be thankful, If anyone helps with explanation.

In summary I think its availability depends  from Club Reputation (mostly from this, think) and from Competition reputation. Worst is, that I think there is some hidden country factor which is hard coded may be, from that also depends YR upgrade.

Because in Singapore, maxed all other factors which is for country and environment, and in same levels of Club and Competition reputation with Real and Barcelona still not available to upgrade at Tampines. 

Take a look, I will be pleased to hear your opinions.

 

 

 

Edit: I can upload the Excel file, If this screenshots are too small.

Really nice work, rimisark. It still doesn't explain why some teams in the same country have an advantage, but some interesting things discovered (including the differences between countries). Thank you!

4 hours ago, Willigenburg said:

Niel Brock answered in the Ask SI Anything thread:

It doesn't really seem to give a fulfilling answer as to why the other clubs are getting the option to upgrade, when @BoxToBox's club has better club reputation, financial status and youth facilities/junior coaching.

Everything he said, the human teams have the advantage in, or at the very least are no worse off. Reckon that's enough to earmark this as a potential bug?

[rimisark]

4 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

Really nice work, rimisark. It still doesn't explain why some teams in the same country have an advantage, but some interesting things discovered (including the differences between countries). Thank you!

Regards, yes doesn't explain, but show how much your club need to grow to have chance to upgrade YR. 7500 is Continental reputation and only can have Average YR in your country. Its not logical. This is a problem. AI advantage, also.

[Bedese]

Just now, rimisark said:

Regards, yes doesn't explain, but show how much your club need to grow to have chance to upgrade YR. 7500 is Continental reputation and only can have Average YR in your country. Its not logical. This is a problem. AI advantage, also.

I actually think it's fairly logical. To copy the quote from the first post:

 

"Youth recruitment rating is not only tied to finances, but it is also dependent on club location and nationality as these will affect the recruitment possibilities in the nearby regions. Having all the money in the world will not suddenly make the local talent pool amazing or even much better than it has been previously, but having more money and better facilities means you can make the most out of the talent that you can recruit to your youth system.

Look at it this way (an extreme example I know), if you took the richest team in the world with the best facilities and coaching staff and placed the team into Greenland, would you expect them to churn out golden generations of newgens all the time?"

 

This seems pretty fair to me. As an example, San Marino is a tiny country with a tiny talent pool. Even if you pump a load of money into them, they still don't have many players to choose from.

[rimisark]

1 minute ago, Jupjamie said:

I actually think it's fairly logical. To copy the quote from the first post:

 

"Youth recruitment rating is not only tied to finances, but it is also dependent on club location and nationality as these will affect the recruitment possibilities in the nearby regions. Having all the money in the world will not suddenly make the local talent pool amazing or even much better than it has been previously, but having more money and better facilities means you can make the most out of the talent that you can recruit to your youth system.

Look at it this way (an extreme example I know), if you took the richest team in the world with the best facilities and coaching staff and placed the team into Greenland, would you expect them to churn out golden generations of newgens all the time?"

 

This seems pretty fair to me. As an example, San Marino is a tiny country with a tiny talent pool. Even if you pump a load of money into them, they still don't have many players to choose from.

No, no. Im not pretending in San Marino to have 200PA regen. I understanded this: YR is National scale, in the country. Club with 20YR could have best youth intake in the country not from whole world. Example, Partizan from Serbia, Ludogorets from Bulgaria, Legia from Poland, in database they have 20YR, because they are most popular in their countries, best facilities, finances, etc.  Barcelona have 19 and R Madrid - 18. 

[Rynny]

I think it's time to log this as a bug.

[Ceching You Out]

I was a little surprised to find that the in-game link still works in FM15, but I bought the editor last night. I've only had the chance to poke around a little so far although I've found a couple interesting things.

1. Lowering Youth Coaching does not make a Youth Recruitment upgrade available. None of the values I tried from 20 (the current level) to 1 made a difference. This makes me doubt @Barside's theory that I formulated as "Youth Coaching + Youth Recruitment <= Limit".
2. Raising our reputation to 5001 makes a Youth Recruitment upgrade available that would move us from "Limited" to "Basic", i.e. from 1 to at least 3. At 5000, no such luck. The next thresholds for upgrades appear to be 6001 (to Fairly Basic) and then 7001 (to Average) when I tinkered with the next levels.
3. Side note: I probably should've trusted the notification that FM gives that "Youth Recruitment will be upgraded over time to _____". The actual value doesn't increase immediately after the board agrees; it seems to be gradual per the message despite what shows under Club Facilities.
4. Our biggest rival, Jeunesse Esch, has a reputation in the high 4000's yet has a Youth Recruitment of 12! I don't have the game in front of me at the moment but I believe that equates to either the upper band of "Average" or the lower band of "Above Average". While their reputation is slightly higher, that doesn't account for the vast difference nor explain why we have different thresholds. I have to say, not for the first time, that this points to a significant variable missing in both the official explanations and our theories.
5. Adding more money to the club doesn't make the upgrade available. Keep in mind that we're already financially stable, so the change is from $50M to $500M. I'll double check next time but I think that takes us from our current "Secure" to "Rich" without affecting Youth Recruitment.

More thorough investigation to come later -- probably Friday/Saturday when I have the time. I'd like to play with other team's reputations and league reputation at a minimum plus better document the parameters I'm using.

[Bedese]

20 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

I was a little surprised to find that the in-game link still works in FM15, but I bought the editor last night. I've only had the chance to poke around a little so far although I've found a couple interesting things.

1. Lowering Youth Coaching does not make a Youth Recruitment upgrade available. None of the values I tried from 20 (the current level) to 1 made a difference. This makes me doubt @Barside's theory that I formulated as "Youth Coaching + Youth Recruitment <= Limit".
2. Raising our reputation to 5001 makes a Youth Recruitment upgrade available that would move us from "Limited" to "Basic", i.e. from 1 to at least 3. At 5000, no such luck. The next thresholds for upgrades appear to be 6001 (to Fairly Basic) and then 7001 (to Average) when I tinkered with the next levels.
3. Side note: I probably should've trusted the notification that FM gives that "Youth Recruitment will be upgraded over time to _____". The actual value doesn't increase immediately after the board agrees; it seems to be gradual per the message despite what shows under Club Facilities.
4. Our biggest rival, Jeunesse Esch, has a reputation in the high 4000's yet has a Youth Recruitment of 12! I don't have the game in front of me at the moment but I believe that equates to either the upper band of "Average" or the lower band of "Above Average". While their reputation is slightly higher, that doesn't account for the vast difference nor explain why we have different thresholds. I have to say, not for the first time, that this points to a significant variable missing in both the official explanations and our theories.
5. Adding more money to the club doesn't make the upgrade available. Keep in mind that we're already financially stable, so the change is from $50M to $500M. I'll double check next time but I think that takes us from our current "Secure" to "Rich" without affecting Youth Recruitment.

More thorough investigation to come later -- probably Friday/Saturday when I have the time. I'd like to play with other team's reputations and league reputation at a minimum plus better document the parameters I'm using.

Top stuff, @Ceching You Out. #4 is... suspicious, to say the least.

[Willigenburg]

Again, from the Ask SI Anything thread:

 

Quote

Yeah to be honest the aspects in regards to not being able upgrade certain youth aspects sounds like it could be a bug and ideally needs to be raised with an example here - https://community.sigames.com/forum/518-other-gameplay-issues/

Thanks. 

@Jupjamie - Would you like to start a bug thread?

[Pompeyboyz]

This has come from @Neil Brock on the Ask SI Anything Thread

 

I think it is time to call the ball

[Bedese]

Neil's just posted this on the 'Ask SI anything' thread:

Yeah to be honest the aspects in regards to not being able upgrade certain youth aspects sounds like it could be a bug and ideally needs to be raised with an example here - https://community.sigames.com/forum/518-other-gameplay-issues/

Thanks. 

 

Unless anyone wants to do it sooner, I'll post this over on the bugs forum tomorrow when I get the time to do it properly.

 

EDIT: Great minds think alike!  @Willigenburg @Pompeyboyz

 

[Ceching You Out]

@BoxToBox, would you mind uploading your save game as well? Figure more examples are better than one and yours is more likely to be useful than mine since I'm still on FM15.

[BoxToBox]

17 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

@BoxToBox, would you mind uploading your save game as well? Figure more examples are better than one and yours is more likely to be useful than mine since I'm still on FM15.

I will when I can, uploading anything of a reasonable size is a bit of a nightmare.

[Bedese]

@Ceching You Out, any chance you can upload a version of your save? 

[Ceching You Out]

1 hour ago, Jupjamie said:

@Ceching You Out, any chance you can upload a version of your save? 

It's on FM15, but if it's still useful I don't mind. Have you opened a thread yet or should I?

 

[Bedese]

6 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

It's on FM15, but if it's still useful I don't mind. Have you opened a thread yet or should I?

 

It's up to you, I'm happy to do it. I'll upload your save, my save(s) and @BoxToBox's one from earlier in the thread and let them have three years worth of saves to check out.

[Ceching You Out]

Perfect, sounds like a plan. Any particular site better to use? Megaupload or the like?

[Bedese]

15 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

Perfect, sounds like a plan. Any particular site better to use? Megaupload or the like?

I think they're all much of a muchness, as long as it's a file sharing site that allows for big files you should be all good.