TT&F IV: New Strategies and Theories for '07

[Benoit2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Benoit2:

Now its time for me to go to bed though... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, not just yet...

Like I said, I played the 4-3-3 normal with short arrows on the two MC's and I made the observation they got man marked. (I have Makélélé in DMC, Essien in MCR and Lampard in MCL).

Then I made a change. Makélélé to MCR, Essien to MCL and Lampard to AMC. Here is what happended next:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1735/03192007045525iy2.jpg

Now Im really off. Drawing conclusions and further testing shall happen tomorrow for me..

[wwfan]

Funny you should mention it....

TT&F: Learning to 'read' the AI

I had intended to wait a few more days before starting this thread, but you have gazumped me. Hope you find it interesting.

There is another 'sister' thread that the same gouup of people have written should anybody be interested.

TT&F: How to Setup a Target Man

[Loversleaper]

Benoit2: If I where to understand you right you changed your 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1 so to say. That turns your tactic into a funny looking 4-4-2 where the amc becomes more of a forward than an amc. The only way I have found to actually have them hold your intended positions is to move the two wings in the amr/aml positions in next to the amc and give them s-arrows.

[_Hawk_]

Hello every one!I have a question that bothers me and i would like to ask if someone can help me to figure it out.

If I play a pocession game at home with narrow width ,low tempo and short passing and play a quick tempo ,direct passing ,long width and count-attack in the away games didn't this confuses my team.I mean this is two diferent types of play.Isn't it a bad thing.Play a style in one day and in the next week play in another?Didn't team get confused.I mean a team always get time to fit the ideas of the manager.If we are changing that isn't that confusing for the players in the pitch?

I don't know if a expressed myself the right way!!!I hope so!

Sorry for my english!

Cheers to everyone and congratulation wwfan for your great work with the RoO framework.Work really well for me.

[Benoit2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Loversleaper:

Benoit2: If I where to understand you right you changed your 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1 so to say. That turns your tactic into a funny looking 4-4-2 where the amc becomes more of a forward than an amc. The only way I have found to actually have them hold your intended positions is to move the two wings in the amr/aml positions in next to the amc and give them s-arrows. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The screenshot was not intended to show that Lampard moved to ST, but that one of the MC's from Middlesbrough dropped to DMC, but the other didnt, which would suggest that Lampard is being marked specifically.

When thinking of ways to counter the AI, I never thought of them man marking players of mine. There's probably many more things we dont realize, but could find out by close inspection, which in turn may help us create better tactics to cope with the AI.

[Justified]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

@ Nistelrooy_is_back: I relaise English isn't your first language and a thread like this would put you off, but as Millie said, it is more of a set of ideas that lead to and continue debate. The only conclusions are what you make of it yourself.

@ Justified: You must have incredible ESP to be able to write on here without access to a computer.

Front Men Mentality

Read this thread. In theory, you already have as you have been credited for writing it, but.....

Fullbacks

They are absolutely vital when trying to defeat 10 men or break down a stubbornly defensive AI. I would use them on a high mentality then, but all my team would be. However, the manual explicity warns against having defenders on two high a mentality difference so you would have to link them with the DCs as much as possible.

Player Instructions and Creative Freedom

I couldn't agree more.

The 5-5-5-5-CD Defence

I think this should work unless you are a playing a highly aggressive and skilful opponent. You may find that the FBs give too much space up on the wings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol I'm writing from work in off hours really. However I got a message today saying taht my stuff from the UK has arrived in Stockholm Should be expecting it any day now.

Anyways I was thinking a little more about my theories and then incorperating them into RoO so I came up with this sort of mentality split ->

Example of HomeAtt :

GK - 14

CD's - 15

Fullbacks - 17

MCd - 16

MCa - 18

Wingers and FCd - 19

FCa - 20

So what I did was get the DMC closer to the defence and the fullbacks a little bit further forward seeing as I upped the wingers mentality. Linked the wingers mentality to the FCd as if he was tall then you'd want them to kind of link with each other also the MCa would be closer to him and the FCa will be a little higher to get an advantage on a run if the FCd threads a through ball.

If anyone could test this sort of mentality split I'd appreciate it

[crazy gra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Benoit2:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Loversleaper:

Benoit2: If I where to understand you right you changed your 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1 so to say. That turns your tactic into a funny looking 4-4-2 where the amc becomes more of a forward than an amc. The only way I have found to actually have them hold your intended positions is to move the two wings in the amr/aml positions in next to the amc and give them s-arrows. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The screenshot was not intended to show that Lampard moved to ST, but that one of the MC's from Middlesbrough dropped to DMC, but the other didnt, which would suggest that Lampard is being marked specifically.

When thinking of ways to counter the AI, I never thought of them man marking players of mine. There's probably many more things we dont realize, but could find out by close inspection, which in turn may help us create better tactics to cope with the AI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've found that specific man marking is a nightmare due to players changing positions - something that I find that the opposition does a lot.

You could try swapping positions e.g. having your wingers swap and also have your DM swap with one of your MCs. If the opposition are specifically man marking, then it might pull their midfielders out of position.

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justified:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

@ Nistelrooy_is_back: I relaise English isn't your first language and a thread like this would put you off, but as Millie said, it is more of a set of ideas that lead to and continue debate. The only conclusions are what you make of it yourself.

@ Justified: You must have incredible ESP to be able to write on here without access to a computer.

Front Men Mentality

Read this thread. In theory, you already have as you have been credited for writing it, but.....

Fullbacks

They are absolutely vital when trying to defeat 10 men or break down a stubbornly defensive AI. I would use them on a high mentality then, but all my team would be. However, the manual explicity warns against having defenders on two high a mentality difference so you would have to link them with the DCs as much as possible.

Player Instructions and Creative Freedom

I couldn't agree more.

The 5-5-5-5-CD Defence

I think this should work unless you are a playing a highly aggressive and skilful opponent. You may find that the FBs give too much space up on the wings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol I'm writing from work in off hours really. However I got a message today saying taht my stuff from the UK has arrived in Stockholm Should be expecting it any day now.

Anyways I was thinking a little more about my theories and then incorperating them into RoO so I came up with this sort of mentality split ->

Example of HomeAtt :

GK - 14

CD's - 15

Fullbacks - 17

MCd - 16

MCa - 18

Wingers and FCd - 19

FCa - 20

So what I did was get the DMC closer to the defence and the fullbacks a little bit further forward seeing as I upped the wingers mentality. Linked the wingers mentality to the FCd as if he was tall then you'd want them to kind of link with each other also the MCa would be closer to him and the FCa will be a little higher to get an advantage on a run if the FCd threads a through ball.

If anyone could test this sort of mentality split I'd appreciate it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are going to spend a long time in Scandinavia, especially Sweden, especially Stockholm, take some advice from one with experience.

1: FM will really help you in the first year

2: Drink will really, really help you

3: Unfotunately, a pint costs the same as a small mortgage so you will fall back time and time again on FM in order to actually be able to afford the minor comforts of life such as food, heat, clothes.

4: Swedes are notoriously difficult to make friends with, but once you do a better friend you will never find. May take 3-4 years to make the first one though.

5: Don't apologise for anything.

6: When walking through shopping malls watch out for crazed politician killing assassins. If you should see one let him/her kill the target and don't under any circumstances tell the police you saw anything.

That pretty much sums up my philosophy of surviving my long sojurn in Scandinavia. Really good fun once you settle, but seriously difficult to first find your feet. I wish you luck and don't worry if the first year is difficult, it gets easier and easier.

[crazy gra]

Isn't Sweden just full of top-heavy blondes? That was my impression at least

[crazy gra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

Isn't Sweden just full of top-heavy blondes? That was my impression at least </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, not top-heavy as such, just bl*ody gorgeous!

[Justified]

No worries wwfan mate, I'm half Swedish and spent 14 years in Gothenburg so I know what I'm doing My pay at work is very healthy at the moment so not too worried about cash. The only thing I won't be able to do which I could do in Gothenburg is watching IFK Goteborg I grew up with them pretty much and used to go to 6-7 home matches a season.

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justified:

No worries wwfan mate, I'm half Swedish and spent 14 years in Gothenburg so I know what I'm doing My pay at work is very healthy at the moment so not too worried about cash. The only thing I won't be able to do which I could do in Gothenburg is watching IFK Goteborg I grew up with them pretty much and used to go to 6-7 home matches a season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'll also be able to make home-brew vodka then, which helps!

With regards to your previous mentality setup query, I have no doubt that it will work. It resembles the RoT system I used to use with FBs on higher mentality then MCd. I haven't had time to play for the last 4-5 days, but once I do I'll give it a go.

[Justified]

The only thing I can think of that could be counter productive could be the amount of offsides it could bring with the one striker being on the higher mentality rhen the FCd and wingers.. However the gelling effect should counter that after 5-7 games. If it doesn't work then my only guess would be that maybe matching the wingers to the FCa would be better however that would mean your wingers would maybe be too far forward. As I mentioned earlier, it's a bit hard to know without the game

[alex0811]

wwfan:

Do u have new version of RoO442(flat) to dowanload ???

I have already had the version 1.2

[Nistelrooy_is_back]

what the setting for the striker are so weak in physical. Example Robbie Fowler and Andy Cole.

i need to know the mentality.

[Bottleofsmoke]

Hi...great thread, and a Thank You to everyone who has contributed with there advice.

I have recently decided to try out the RoO - my team is playing significantly better, dominating in all the major game stat areas, and generally playing well enough for me to be really pleased. But i just cannot buy a win.

In my last three games for example, i have outshot my opponents 32-12 - shots on target being 14-4. Passing percentage is higher than my opponents - normally around 65%. Even tacking % comes out higher each game. But i have lost 1-0, 1-0, and 2-1. Oh well..if anyone has had similar problems i would be grateful for a hint or two.

FWIW, i am playing 442 with Sheffield United - maybe i just need a couple of better players!!

[Bottleofsmoke]

"THEIR advice". Ouch.

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bottleofsmoke:

"THEIR advice". Ouch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try the Target Man thread linked above. Settings akin to those helped my 'goals for' ratio significantly at higher levels.

[Bottleofsmoke]

Thanks very much...heading there now.

[Millie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bottleofsmoke:

"THEIR advice". Ouch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somebody as anal as me!

[crazy gra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Millie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bottleofsmoke:

"THEIR advice". Ouch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somebody as anal as me! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You clearly haven't seen some my discussions in the GPTG OTT

Justified: I'm giving your new mentality a go, and seeing how it performs against my current home framework which is 12-16.

[crazy gra]

A point/question on creative freedom:

Wingers and MCas seem to be the positions to give the most CF to, so what should determine how much CF is given to a particular player?

If it were to do with decisions, then why should forward players have high(ish) CF when most of them won't have a good decisions stat and why should defenders have low CF when their decisions stat is usually high?

I think that although it does depend on decisions, creativity and flair are important for having high CF for forwards.

Thoughts?

[Justified]

I've totally gone to having everyone on low CF. It helps retain the ball and possesion without anyone making silly mistakes. I think every CF depends on decision but the higher you go the higher the players technique has to be.

[carlo sheva]

its mid season now (february 2010) and its been a disastrous. only 4th in serie a (7 points below leader juventus), 12win 9draw 1lost. most of the draw game is because of the opponent managed to made a comeback. out of coppa italia, only runners up for supercup euro and CWC. almost all of my key players last season, under perform this season. pirlo only 7.14, sissoko out injured for 4months (still 2months left), torres 7.21 14goals, gila 7.27 10goals, sheva 6.78 12goals. 4 of my mc out injured, sissoko still 2months, tissone 2months, albiol 1month, gourcuff 3weeks.

from my point of view, AI are doing this to me:

1. mark my mc's very tight and tackle very hard on them, also full closing down. >> they realise that pirlo and gourcuff is my creative factory. so far, pirlo only did 4 assists, gourcuff 5.

2. lauch a direct long ball to the heart of my defense, hoping that my dc's and gk made some mistakes. >> collocini already get 3red cards because of this, barzagli n both GK did some fatal mistakes

3. high closing down on my AM's >> minimize their crosses (not working against c ronaldo thou, my best player currently).

4. very tight defense in front of their goal. >> frustrating my forward.

my temporary solutions:

1. still no idea

2. for away games and leading condition: deepen the defensive line (from normal to 3notches back), fullbacks fwd runs is off. working fine so far.

3. try through ball often..??

4. try longshots..??

need your suggestions guys..

[gio]

Is your midfield flat? I.e. are Pirlo and Gourcuff playing at MC with the same mentality? If so, then make one defensive, and one attacking. Once you've done this, you could also try using the 'swap postion' instruction. It's proved to work for a lot of people

Another suggestion is to play deeper, therefore creating more space for your MCs. If the markers decide to follow them, then it should provide space for your wingers/fullbacks to move into.

Finally, why not try a diamond midfield?

[crazy gra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

Justified: I'm giving your new mentality a go, and seeing how it performs against my current home framework which is 12-16. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Had a couple of games, and it only confirmed my ideas that extreme mentalities gives a low efficiency in front of goal. I may have created more chances, but my shot:SOT ratio was quite a bit higher when using my framework,

[Nistelrooy_is_back]

what benefit for using 4 defender man mark.

zone marking with a tight marking is the best setting.

[MattUK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">its mid season now (february 2010) and its been a disastrous. only 4th in serie a (7 points below leader juventus), 12win 9draw 1lost. most of the draw game is because of the opponent managed to made a comeback. out of coppa italia, only runners up for supercup euro and CWC. almost all of my key players last season, under perform this season. pirlo only 7.14, sissoko out injured for 4months (still 2months left), torres 7.21 14goals, gila 7.27 10goals, sheva 6.78 12goals. 4 of my mc out injured, sissoko still 2months, tissone 2months, albiol 1month, gourcuff 3weeks.

from my point of view, AI are doing this to me:

1. mark my mc's very tight and tackle very hard on them, also full closing down. >> they realise that pirlo and gourcuff is my creative factory. so far, pirlo only did 4 assists, gourcuff 5.

If your playing slow direct football, your midfielders have more time on the ball therefore more time to be tackled. Also they need to take a longer amount of time to make a direct pass than a short one.

2. lauch a direct long ball to the heart of my defense, hoping that my dc's and gk made some mistakes. >> collocini already get 3red cards because of this, barzagli n both GK did some fatal mistakes

If your playing with a pushed up defensive line, play offside and give your goalkeeper an attacking mentality so that he comes of his line. Or play with a deeper defence.

3. high closing down on my AM's >> minimize their crosses (not working against c ronaldo thou, my best player currently).

Try giving them short passing again and a quick tempo. Perhaps consider giving them a free role.

4. very tight defense in front of their goal. >> frustrating my forward.

my temporary solutions:

1. still no idea

2. for away games and leading condition: deepen the defensive line (from normal to 3notches back), fullbacks fwd runs is off. working fine so far.

3. try through ball often..??

4. try longshots..??

need your suggestions guys.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">its mid season now (february 2010) and its been a disastrous. only 4th in serie a (7 points below leader juventus), 12win 9draw 1lost. most of the draw game is because of the opponent managed to made a comeback. out of coppa italia, only runners up for supercup euro and CWC. almost all of my key players last season, under perform this season. pirlo only 7.14, sissoko out injured for 4months (still 2months left), torres 7.21 14goals, gila 7.27 10goals, sheva 6.78 12goals. 4 of my mc out injured, sissoko still 2months, tissone 2months, albiol 1month, gourcuff 3weeks.

from my point of view, AI are doing this to me:

1. mark my mc's very tight and tackle very hard on them, also full closing down. >> they realise that pirlo and gourcuff is my creative factory. so far, pirlo only did 4 assists, gourcuff 5.

2. lauch a direct long ball to the heart of my defense, hoping that my dc's and gk made some mistakes. >> collocini already get 3red cards because of this, barzagli n both GK did some fatal mistakes

3. high closing down on my AM's >> minimize their crosses (not working against c ronaldo thou, my best player currently).

4. very tight defense in front of their goal. >> frustrating my forward.

my temporary solutions:

1. still no idea

2. for away games and leading condition: deepen the defensive line (from normal to 3notches back), fullbacks fwd runs is off. working fine so far.

3. try through ball often..??

4. try longshots..??

need your suggestions guys.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Justified]

Just a quick theory here. Has anyone tried linking Tempo to CF? I've been trying it on a few settings (5+5, 10+10 and 15+15) and I have to say it seems like it's kind of linked. 5+5 being a Chelsea type of build up, 10+10 is kind of a deafult setting for those that have no particular style and 15+15 is the Arsenal type of football.

Could anyone else test this out and see if they see a marked improvement in their performance?

[timpino]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Millie:

Besides - here's a conclusion - E=MC^2. Right, explain that to me in less than four sentences, with my rudimentary GCSE Physics.

Aaaaaand go! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Efficency = Maradona x Cantona^2 See only one sentance

[Justified]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justified:

Just a quick theory here. Has anyone tried linking Tempo to CF? I've been trying it on a few settings (5+5, 10+10 and 15+15) and I have to say it seems like it's kind of linked. 5+5 being a Chelsea type of build up, 10+10 is kind of a deafult setting for those that have no particular style and 15+15 is the Arsenal type of football.

Could anyone else test this out and see if they see a marked improvement in their performance? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've played another 10 games with the 5+5 tempo/CF and I'm more convinced now that CF and tempo are convinced. However it might be that tempo + attacking players CF is matched however I've been having the whole team on the same CF for now and it's working well.

[Benoit2]

Why are you more convinced? What are you seeing that is so good and makes you think it is because of the tempo and CF being the same?

[Nistelrooy_is_back]

closing down hard,wide,high tempo, high creative freedom are work well together.

Men behind ball,narrow,slow tempo,low creative freedom are work well together.

[Justified]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Benoit2:

Why are you more convinced? What are you seeing that is so good and makes you think it is because of the tempo and CF being the same? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It just looks and feels a lot better. I'm playing with a 4-3-3 and the build up from defence and attack is looking really good, not a lot of bad passes and stray balls.

[Benoit2]

A 4-3-3 with two wingers? Have you also tried 15 for tempo and creative freedom?

[timpino]

I had a dream last night (I know it's sad) what about linking the framework to the nike defence system and the roo? that would mean:

gk 5

dcd 6

dca 7

dl/r 8

mcd 7

mca 8

ml/r 9

fcd 8

fca 9

i've tried this on holiday with man city and after watching the replays I've seen some nice moving, I had the left side the most defensive but that's totally up to who ever plays the game

My reason for thinking like this is because in the roo I sometimes find my players to far appart to my liking. With this "idea" the defence and midfield are 1 point off each other and the same with mids and attack with the fullbacks and wingers linking up.

I'm now gonna try it with two spaces instead of one to see which one works the best, but imo this at least looks nice on the pitch

[timpino]

I might add, I changed nothing except mentalities before going on holiday, I just wanted to see if the guys looked more compact on the pitch

[timpino]

Update: until 1/12 I used the above 5-5-5 in wdl

after I used 4-6-8-10-8-10-12-10-12 and finished with 14 wins 10 losses, draws I forgot, passing completion was around 70% in the whole team, which IMO is quite good I might finally have found my style in FM07

[Benoit2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

I intend to write a more detailed piece on my current setup over the weekend which should explain a little more.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hows that going?

Ive been going through this thread reading all your posts (and some others) about playing with a world-class side, and although I noticed you posted some stuff and settings you used with Barcelona, it still isnt crystal clear to me. I would really appreciate if you would do write-up about the 4-4-2 for world-class teams.

Maybe to make things as clear as possible, you could release it as a seperate tactic set, even if some may be the same as the current tactic set. Biggest difference for those would then probably be changing the name from HomeDef to Away or so, because thats how its to be used with a world-class team

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Benoit2:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

I intend to write a more detailed piece on my current setup over the weekend which should explain a little more.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hows that going?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Slowly, unfortunately. Snowed under at work right now but will get to it asap.

[rbnrbn]

5 games winning streaks, manager of the month, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding...

Where did those successful sunday nights go where you'd turn on your computer, start up FM and morealess do what now is impossible, possible.

Is there a strategy guide out there?

[rbnrbn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rbnrbn:

5 games winning streaks, manager of the month, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding...

Where did those successful sunday nights go where you'd turn on your computer, start up FM and morealess make what now is impossible, possible.

Is there a strategy guide out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rbnrbn:

5 games winning streaks, manager of the month, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding...

Where did those successful sunday nights go where you'd turn on your computer, start up FM and morealess do what now is impossible, possible.

Is there a strategy guide out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding your last question, I'm confused as to what exactly you think this thread is.

To answer your previous question, it is more than possible to go on unbeaten runs, score lots of goals, get poor teams to the Premiership. It requires more thought and is more time-consuming than previously. Goals are harder to come by and clean sheets more difficult to achieve than in previous versions but with good tactical management you should see a >2.5/<0.8 split. I think that would be regarded as satisfactory by most.

[Loversleaper]

Regarding tactics for world class teams: I have been testing something and it's been working quite well. I used these different Mentality frameworks: 14-20 Attacking, 11-17 Push up, 8-14 Normal, 4-10 Counter Attacking, and 1-7 Deffensive. In all the frameworks I've kept passing and width at (11), and only changed tempo according to the framework I'm useing.

I have of course two frame works in the attacking consulation: One with the whole deffensive line closing down on (10), more Forward Runs on the fullbacks and Run With Ball on wings, and the other framework deffensive line closing down on (6) with mixed Forward Runs on the full backs and mixed Run With Ball for wingers.

Team Instructions for both frameworks: Tempo (3) timewasting (3) and Deffensive Line (17).

I keep the same ideoligy throughout the other frameworks. But appart from this I feel it's very important in all the frameworks to use the Target Man option, and one has make an effort to get a good Target Man (jumping, heading and strength) with a good height.

[crazy gra]

I myself try for at least 2.5/0.5, but maybe my standards are too high

[Guest MazinGol]

About the individual mentalities. As the original post says, there are basically 2 ways players are used to set them. First one is defenders having very low mentality (1-5) and attackers very high (15-20). Naturally this should have direct / long passing. Second which I have seen is how the original post also suggests it should be done. Mentalities quite close each other. Suited for shorter passing as players are closer together.

If we take a simple example. If formation is basic 4-4-2 without any arrows and every player has a mentality of 10, there is some distance between defence and midfield and also distance between midfield and attack. If we now tell midfield that their mentality is around 11-14 and attack has mentality of 15-16, it actually makes the distance bigger between D, M and A.

Ultimately, if you would like to have your players as close together as possible using 4-4-2, defenders would have mentality of 20, midfield 10 and attack 1. This would ofcourse be a suicide, but just to point out how I see mentalities work.

To create short passing game where attackers are part of the actual game instead of just lurking in the penalty area, I have had a bit different set of mentalities (which affects their passing style).

Central defenders have mentality around 5-8 and passing short. They act like defenders but also are not too far from other players at the pitch. As they often are the worst passers of the team, they pass short passes to either DMC or DL / DR. Some people suggest central defence should have mixed or direct passing, but in my opinion they should make only easy, short passes to either midfield or to flanks.

Full backs have mentality around normal. They have passing at mixed since they are quite often bit isolated on the field. Also I dont want them only to pass back to central defenders (see Oleguer in Liverpool vs Barca game, sigh).

Defensive midfield has mentality around normal too. Not too far away from central defence in order to receive their short passes. Passing short naturally, since I have 2 MC's above him.

This is where the difference comes to original post and some others Ive been reading.

My 2 MC's have mentality 15. So very attacking but still my DMC can reach them with his passes. Passing ofcourse short.

AML/AMR and FC mentality 10. They actually have much more defending mentality than my MC's. This has resulted them being close to my attackminded MC's. My team has succeeded playing short passing and opposing team seems to be unable to cope threats that come from all directions. AML and AMR having arrows to FC make them cut inside, so they can use short passing aswell and giving enemy defenders really hard time since single FC is not their only worry anymore.

This has been unbeatable so far when I play home during the 2 seasons I have used it (I do have world class team though), but away I must do a lot of tweaking.

Should perhaps try what the original post suggests. Not only touch team related sliders, but tamper with individual player settings more. I am just afraid it will ruin the flowing short passing game in away games.

Well, thats the price to pay. If you want to use only tactic both home and away, you cant really have what I am looking for. Counter attacking, direct styles with mentalities varying from 1-20 can be implemented easily both home and away, but it doesn't offer me what I am looking for, short nice passing game.

-------------------

To some other points about home and away tactics. First, I dont think teams should and could change their mentality nor the style of play totally in away and home games. Many teams I watch, don't really go from all attack at home to ultra defensive at away. Teams generally have strong and weak points, and they try to rely to their strengths both home and away. If we take Arsenal for example. They attack both home and away. They don't change their short passing to direct counter attack style when playing away.

Second, countering opposition team's tactic seems really unlogical. I mean taking opposite strategy than they have. Lets take two tactics, tactic A and tactic B which are opposite strategies to each other. So when opposing team takes tactic B, you could counter it with tactic A. So if opposing team takes tactic A, you would counter it with tactic B? So if tactic A works better against tactic B, you have had tactical advantage in first game and tactical disadvantage in second game. If tactic B works better than tactic A, then well...vice versa naturally...

[Mitja]

Good reply MazinGol!!!

You definetly have the point.

Give your FB very att mentality (20) if you want him to stand high up, with forw runs set to often you'll make him much like winger.

If you play your forward on defensive mentality he will come deep, when your team is not in possesion of ball.

So dont't give me that crap about defenders (FBs) should be on defensive ment and strikers on attacking. If you must score you'll use att mentality to majority of your players. If you defend then you set very defensive mentality and reduce forw runs and creative freedom......

I dont go from short passing at home to direct awey (what the ....??).....like MazinGol said teams have their passing style and they dont change it just like that. Personaly I play more direct only when I need to save my guts at the end of match (when opp play all out attack).

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

I myself try for at least 2.5/0.5, but maybe my standards are too high </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I were managing a top side I'd agree, but for my 100-1 outsiders, 2.5 - 0.8 is more than satisfactory.

@ MazinGol: I do like the idea of a low mentality striker and employ one myself in my home tactics. My TM has the lowest outfield mentality of anyone on my team (14) and operates as a link man between defence and attack with no FWRs to drag him out of position. He scores/assists 2 out of 3 games so I am happy with his settings. I also have my DCs passing short for the home tactics nowadays.

I am interested in your reading of the following:

The AI teams often play short passes to a forward who pulls away from the d-line (goes deeper) and looks to open up space for breaking midfielders to exploit. There are two ways I can imagine setting this up. One is your version of dual low mentality attackers, the other is my low mentality TM with supply set 'to feet'. Do you see your own team try such moves? It seems a wonderful tool to retain possesion until a chance opens up.

I still think that the most effective change of settings between home and away tactics is mentality so am interested to see if you have a lot of success away with your current setup. I don't use the 1-6 mentality setup any more but only use variants of the AwayAtt version (6-11) and my away form is very stable. I think that a world class side such as yours can play home tactics away but your system with a poor team is likely to come unstuck. I'd be interested in hearing whether you have tried it.

As for reading the AI's strategy, I agree that at home it is pretty much unrequired. However, away form home is vital as the extra tactical nous it gives you will turn enough defeats into draws and draws into wins for you to mount a serious assult on the top of the table. I have lost count of the number of times I have changed my away formation after 15-20 mins of being outplayed by the opposition to a system more suited to countering their style and come away with a deserved victory. At home I do a lot less tactic switching as it is the AI that has to deal with me.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rbnrbn:

5 games winning streaks, manager of the month, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding...

Where did those successful sunday nights go where you'd turn on your computer, start up FM and morealess do what now is impossible, possible.

Is there a strategy guide out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding your last question, I'm confused as to what exactly you think this thread is.

To answer your previous question, it is more than possible to go on unbeaten runs, score lots of goals, get poor teams to the Premiership. It requires more thought and is more time-consuming than previously. Goals are harder to come by and clean sheets more difficult to achieve than in previous versions but with good tactical management you should see a >2.5/<0.8 split. I think that would be regarded as satisfactory by most. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wwfan,

your frameworks are immensely useful.

by learning from them, and adapting tactics to the players i have and the situations i face, i'm going on unbeaten runs, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding, getting back to back promotions, i'm more popular socially,just got a rise in pay, and upgraded my house and girlfriend.

just wanna say... thanks. keep up the good work.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rbnrbn:

5 games winning streaks, manager of the month, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding...

Where did those successful sunday nights go where you'd turn on your computer, start up FM and morealess do what now is impossible, possible.

Is there a strategy guide out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding your last question, I'm confused as to what exactly you think this thread is.

To answer your previous question, it is more than possible to go on unbeaten runs, score lots of goals, get poor teams to the Premiership. It requires more thought and is more time-consuming than previously. Goals are harder to come by and clean sheets more difficult to achieve than in previous versions but with good tactical management you should see a >2.5/<0.8 split. I think that would be regarded as satisfactory by most. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wwfan,

your frameworks are immensely useful.

by learning from them, and adapting tactics to the players i have and the situations i face, i'm going on unbeaten runs, scoring more than 2 goals in a game, not conceding, getting back to back promotions, i'm more popular socially,just got a rise in pay, and upgraded my house and girlfriend.

just wanna say... thanks. keep up the good work.