korzy Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 well, i played a 2-2 with basiktas away and followed a sec leg match on home a 1-1, so i progressed. afterwards a 3-0 over reacartivo, and a 0-3 Home lose to Barcelona ( hell can they be beaten? ) my question is: how could i tweak the barcelona game as i used the 13-19 mentalities home. ideas? i used low time wasting (3-4 i assume), wide and quick ( 15 both i believe ) and a 14 DL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 I don't actually know what team you are playing as, so it is difficult to offer too much help. However, by the sounds of things you need to read the game better. If you are only an average side the Attack set-up versus Barca is going to cause you problems and you should look to be more cautious. I suggest you read the PlayFM thread. It is a little simpler to follow but more sophisticated in idea. It also has a corresponding Tactics Pack at FMDownloads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Any plans for a TT&F for FM08? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1: Any plans for a TT&F for FM08? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Aye, have already written the assumptions. A little difficult to write the frameworks and theorems until the game come out proper though. Took me until Jan 07 for FM07. I have a few extra theorists this time around though so it should be a much quicker process. I would hope to have something ready by mid-to-late November. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You have your own academy going eh? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1: You have your own academy going eh? ;-) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm more of a Socratic wanderer than Academy leader. The next Diaby runs the 'Think Tank'. I just turn up and debate occasionally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Whatever you do mate, dont ever go and work for SI as their coder for the AI manager. I hate to think how anybody would be able to crack the AI mangers then! Seriously we all look forward to your theories and posts with some enthusiasm, even if they do shatter all our pre-conceived ideas about the game and how to be succesful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 im playing Villareal, so my side is pretty decent. i could just go a 6-11 against barca @ home? or a 9-14 or something like that? im playing a wide diamond 4-1-2-1-2, with short farrows for wingers, free role for AMC, HUB for DMC and FCd. im pretty much following your approach to the game and try to set it up according to what you write. still, i need ideas against world-class teams as i cant just simply attack those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Think of it in common sense terms. Would Villareal play aggressively, cautiously or somewhere in between at home to Barca and try to simulate that kind of mindset. Don't be afraid to change things if you think you may have made a mistake. @ FrazT: I'm looking to add something a little different this time, a proactive argument neutralisng 'the game cheats' brigade before they get up a head of steam. Not asking for much am I!! I'm also trying to reconceptualise FM away from a 'pure football' game and towards a 'realistic management experience' which entails writing up a lot of assumptions and a fair bit of management theory. All that before I even get to frameworks, let alone theorems. I'm also trying hard not to be pretentious, pompous, verbose and full of cow $h!t as the tacticians were so charmingly described today in GQ. Could be too much to ask though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Believe me, I've tried changing so many things that i mixed up the whole thing and it all turned out wrong and worse, i post only after i become frustrated thats where you come into picture as our savior =) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 this is my away formation: http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=formationhg2.jpg Team Instructions: http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teaminstructionsxh1.jpg GK: http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gkav4.jpg FB: http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fbtx4.jpg CB: http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cbzd3.jpg DM: http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dmsg1.jpg MR\L ( Wide, as its a wide diamond formation ): http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wgxk8.jpg AMc: http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amcdh1.jpg FCd: http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fcdkp2.jpg FCa: http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fcarw0.jpg Home Team Instructions: http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=homeas1.jpg FWR and tempo\width\passing changes a bit from home to away, same with mentalities but yet im having no success on stability, could anyone help me solve the enigma? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan: Think of it in common sense terms. Would Villareal play aggressively, cautiously or somewhere in between at home to Barca and try to simulate that kind of mindset. Don't be afraid to change things if you think you may have made a mistake. @ FrazT: I'm looking to add something a little different this time, a proactive argument neutralisng 'the game cheats' brigade before they get up a head of steam. Not asking for much am I!! I'm also trying to reconceptualise FM away from a 'pure football' game and towards a 'realistic management experience' which entails writing up a lot of assumptions and a fair bit of management theory. All that before I even get to frameworks, let alone theorems. I'm also trying hard not to be pretentious, pompous, verbose and full of cow $h!t as the tacticians were so charmingly described today in GQ. Could be too much to ask though! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you think that some UNI somewhere could provide you funding to do a PhD. in FM tactics? ( that is presuming that you don't already have one of course- a presumption that might just be wrong!) It would make a great thesis and an lot more entertaining than usual. I do also wonder how many of the younger players get half way down the first page of TTand F and give up? I will sadly admit to spending hours and hours with your theories and they have undoubtedly been the catalyst for most of my enjoyment of the recent games, so pleaase carry on and be as verbose as you deem neccessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 im getting beaten over and over again and again.. it becomes hella frustrating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FrazT: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan: Think of it in common sense terms. Would Villareal play aggressively, cautiously or somewhere in between at home to Barca and try to simulate that kind of mindset. Don't be afraid to change things if you think you may have made a mistake. @ FrazT: I'm looking to add something a little different this time, a proactive argument neutralisng 'the game cheats' brigade before they get up a head of steam. Not asking for much am I!! I'm also trying to reconceptualise FM away from a 'pure football' game and towards a 'realistic management experience' which entails writing up a lot of assumptions and a fair bit of management theory. All that before I even get to frameworks, let alone theorems. I'm also trying hard not to be pretentious, pompous, verbose and full of cow $h!t as the tacticians were so charmingly described today in GQ. Could be too much to ask though! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you think that some UNI somewhere could provide you funding to do a PhD. in FM tactics? ( that is presuming that you don't already have one of course- a presumption that might just be wrong!) It would make a great thesis and an lot more entertaining than usual. I do also wonder how many of the younger players get half way down the first page of TTand F and give up? I will sadly admit to spending hours and hours with your theories and they have undoubtedly been the catalyst for most of my enjoyment of the recent games, so pleaase carry on and be as verbose as you deem neccessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It may not surprise you, but I am doing a PhD in Management as we speak and won a scholarship to do it. I actually only started writing about FM because I was working on the scholarship proposal and it involved a lot of waiting around (communicating between Newcastle upon Tyne, Copenhagen and Sydney). I was bored and needed something to do. The theses title is either going to be: The Dance of Identification: Ambivalence and Irony in Late-Modern Organizations or Comic Correctives: The Practice and Practicability of Irony in Organization Theory. Its aim is to challenge the modernist/positivist assumption in organizational science that we can construct perfectly understood and applicable management systems via which we can perfectly predict employee behaviour (conceptualised as the on-message zealot or the resistant cynic). Once you conceptualise the partiality of any theory and the gaps in the communication process you require a different cognitive process to cope. We posit that this process is highly ironic as it involves being able to engage with and distant from many competing points of view as and when the shift in and out of focus. Somewhere along he line I transferred that into FM and my relationship with the forums. I'm sure you can see the rich source of date they provide, with the set-in-stone positions of game lovers and game critics, the anger responses when the position is challenged, the endless circular debate because people are unwilling to distant themselves from one perspective enough to appreciate another. Only a few are mature enough to accept both dichotomies and craft out a position betwixt and between. And another thing I love; if I ever explicitly bring up irony my definition of it is challenged as being from the Alanis Morisette dictionary (wrong). I find that highly amusing. @ korzy: Width could be the problem. Play wide against Barca and they'll exploit the space. Keep it tight. Try the counter methodology, see how that goes, and become more expansive from there. It's explained in the PlayFM thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 could you please remind me what is the Counter-methodology? and the play fm thread is this ? http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/9572038913 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The theses title is either going to be: The Dance of Identification: Ambivalence and Irony in Late-Modern Organizations or Comic Correctives: The Practice and Practicability of Irony in Organization Theory </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It has to be the third one because it at least gives the reader a clue as to the contents of the thesis. Having worked all my lfe in Management, I have come across many theories and indeed read many books to help my development. Eventually, I found that there had to be a balance between the theory of what should be possible and the reality of what actually is possible, because of the neccessary fact that not everyone is the same and no theory can work without the employees buying into it. Many managers have foundered because of their inability to adapt to the people they are trying to motivate and the rigidity of their views. A very large % of management is trying getting the best out of the people and you must be prepared to compromise with your ideas in order to do this successfully. Sometimes you need to keep your thoughts simple to get them through. Anyway this is getting a bit heavy for early in the morning- I wish you success with your thesis and look forward to the next installment of TT and F for 08 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by korzy: could you please remind me what is the Counter-methodology? and the play fm thread is this ? http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/9572038913 </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It's made pretty explicit in that thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 If following this thread and the playFM thread, it means i have to change and tweak the sliders like 5 times for each game which seems way too much, because of changing the strategy causes a must change of players mentality and then -> change CD -> change time wasting -> change tempo - > change DL - > change passing etc etc... thats way too much changing .. isnt it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 btw, i haven't figured out how to set the CF for players, as mainly now i set it for attack players just by their mentalities... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
korzy Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 ^ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEUK1 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Just to say a massive thanks to WWFan for this guide. I was struggling a bit with Nottingham Forest. I got promoted in first season but had problems with conceding goals and generally not scoring enough. Ive just spent 10-15mins setting up my home and away formations. Just played my first away game and won 4-1, opposition didnt get many shots on goal either. Ill keep you updated on progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by korzy: If following this thread and the playFM thread, it means i have to change and tweak the sliders like 5 times for each game which seems way too much, because of changing the strategy causes a must change of players mentality and then -> change CD -> change time wasting -> change tempo - > change DL - > change passing etc etc... thats way too much changing .. isnt it ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You build five tactics and switch between them!! If you are trying to tweak TT&F you are going to get mouse-related tendonitis. @ STEUK1: Thanks. FM07 or 08? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivorSoso Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 ok i have this suggestion... after reading the first post and begining to understand the game better,i would like to ask wwefan the wollowing 2 questions: 1.will my team become a tighter unit if i use these mentalities: gk:12 cd:12 fb:13 Mcd:11 Mca:10 Win:9 (run with ball is often) F:8 (with long runs) team mentality 10,d-line 10. and 2.How can I make my DMC to become a deep lying playmaker...I'm using Milan's 4-3-2-1 Christmass Tree Formation...and I just can't seem to understand how the "deep lying playmaker" works... Should I set my dm to be playmaker or what? please answer...thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xfer Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 wwfan, Im just wondering, how different is FM07 and FM08 now. Is it still applicable? Certainly a very good indept analysis, but im on FM08 atm, so if its pretty much applicable, i'll read through it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millie Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xfer: wwfan, Im just wondering, how different is FM07 and FM08 now. Is it still applicable? Certainly a very good indept analysis, but im on FM08 atm, so if its pretty much applicable, i'll read through it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> The Play FM thread is perhaps more applicable than this one, but this isn't too far off the new version of TT&F. Certainly good background reading Until closing down and a few other issues are properly sorted, the gold version of the new frameworks thread won't be released. The theory behind it, though, is pretty similar to Play FM, so I'd suggest reading that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 There are still too many issues concerning defending at lower levels for me to consider writing TT&F'08. Until I can understand the defending enough to regularly replicate results on a restarted game I can't write advice. Currently, I can work out how to grab a lead (pretty easy) but tactics for closing a match out seem nonsensical. I can do it, but not logically (or I can't understand the logic anyway). Until I can get a standard 4-4-2 working with no weird arrows to compensate for logical instructions not working, I won't be releasing TT&F'08. My original estimate was mid-November, but early December looks more likely right now. Until the patch proper is released there's not much point in writing anything, as it is only likely to be contradicted. Currently I win by being conservative at home and aggressive away, which doesn't make much sense to me at all. Hopefully, the patch will change that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skinny J Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Realize this isn't exactly hot off the presses but I've adapted the principles within to create a 4-3-3 counter attacking tactic that is just superb... The Manager, Fans and Chairman thank you WWFAN. Not sure about the wife though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powermonger Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan: My original estimate was mid-November, but early December looks more likely right now. Until the patch proper is released there's not much point in writing anything, as it is only likely to be contradicted. Currently I win by being conservative at home and aggressive away, which doesn't make much sense to me at all. Hopefully, the patch will change that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I know this is an old post by wwfan but I'm finding the exact same thing in my game with 8.01. My team performs much better at home with a ultra-defensive tactic then a more attacking one, it just doesn't make sense at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan: There are still too many issues concerning defending at lower levels for me to consider writing TT&F'08. Until I can understand the defending enough to regularly replicate results on a restarted game I can't write advice. Currently, I can work out how to grab a lead (pretty easy) but tactics for closing a match out seem nonsensical. I can do it, but not logically (or I can't understand the logic anyway). Until I can get a standard 4-4-2 working with no weird arrows to compensate for logical instructions not working, I won't be releasing TT&F'08. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Thats is exactly my problem, I cannot seem to hold a lead, even when I use all the old 07 tried and tested methods Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powermonger Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jaycar: Thats is exactly my problem, I cannot seem to hold a lead, even when I use all the old 07 tried and tested methods </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I hate being one up and just know in the dieing minutes the opposition are going to score against me with a surgical procision cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy gra Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 In the dying minutes, a losing opposition will go all out attack against you, so just heavily reduce sliders such as CF, d-line, width and tempo as well as upping passing, TTB, time wasting and ticking counter attack. In away games when I go 1-0 up and see the opposition change to a more attacking tactic, then I'll set my TM supply to RotB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Powermonger: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jaycar: Thats is exactly my problem, I cannot seem to hold a lead, even when I use all the old 07 tried and tested methods </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I hate being one up and just know in the dieing minutes the opposition are going to score against me with a surgical procision cross. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Trust me, i feel your pain @crazy: thanks for the suggestions, but I've tried that and still seem to suffer a lot from the 89+ min goals...just when you think you have the win it gets ripped away from you! Also, I'm not jumping on the game bashing wagon but when the AI went to its crazy 424 plus MC farrow I instantly changed tactics...and waited...and waited...and waited for the changes to be implemented. By that time the AI scored twice. I was not a happy chap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy gra Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I think everyone will have had it happen where they make a change to keep it tighter at the back, but before the changes get implemented the opposition have scored. Then it changes tactics to the defensive settings you wanted, but you don't now want them as you need to attack! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesy247 Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I have yet to concede when the opposition goes 4-2-4, with some very good tactics, none of my own work all of Pelle Madorff over at FM Britain. You should read this thread, which imho is the most complete guide to use of a tactic set in countering the AI in FM08. <snip> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 No linking to other sites please for articles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra: I think everyone will have had it happen where they make a change to keep it tighter at the back, but before the changes get implemented the opposition have scored. Then it changes tactics to the defensive settings you wanted, but you don't now want them as you need to attack! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Aye, it drives you made! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwarner Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I give up. I've tried for days and days but I just can't seem to devise a solid 4-4-2 in the lower leagues. I'm Worcester City in the BSN, and for three seasons now I've wallowed in midtable because my team just seems to do whatever it can to concede goals and not score them. RoO seems to be on the right track, but even with that I can't seem to make heads or tails of what to do to at least fight for promotion. I'm thinking about just playing with the big teams, but those are just too easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesy247 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jwarner: I give up. I've tried for days and days but I just can't seem to devise a solid 4-4-2 in the lower leagues. I'm Worcester City in the BSN, and for three seasons now I've wallowed in midtable because my team just seems to do whatever it can to concede goals and not score them. RoO seems to be on the right track, but even with that I can't seem to make heads or tails of what to do to at least fight for promotion. I'm thinking about just playing with the big teams, but those are just too easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, i've tried to make a decent 4-4-2 and failed badly. For some reason the 1 forward systems seem to get the best results in this version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy gra Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Why not try a 4-4-1-1? I use this instead of a 4-4-2 and it's working very well for me so far. The only problem is getting someone of the ability to play AMC in the lower leagues as I prefer this player being a ST rather than MC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden_Team Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 crazy gra in your tactic, one MC has defensive and other MC ofensive or booth MCs have the same instruction? sorry for poor english Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy FM Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra: Why not try a 4-4-1-1? I use this instead of a 4-4-2 and it's working very well for me so far. The only problem is getting someone of the ability to play AMC in the lower leagues as I prefer this player being a ST rather than MC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What are your instructions for your ST an AMC? I like playing 4-4-1-1 with Utaka (my striker in my Portmouth game). He only never scores.. and my AMC shoots from distance but his shoot from distance instruction is set to rarely. Maybe you can help me .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy gra Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Happy FM: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra: Why not try a 4-4-1-1? I use this instead of a 4-4-2 and it's working very well for me so far. The only problem is getting someone of the ability to play AMC in the lower leagues as I prefer this player being a ST rather than MC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What are your instructions for your ST an AMC? I like playing 4-4-1-1 with Utaka (my striker in my Portmouth game). He only never scores.. and my AMC shoots from distance but his shoot from distance instruction is set to rarely. Maybe you can help me .. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Only have someone on more than rarely for long shots if their long shots stat is high so I only have my AMC on mixed and everyone else rarely. As for the FC and AMC, both instructions are quite similar except the AMC has slightly less mentality, a bit more CF, long shots mixed. I also usually get my AMC to 'hold up ball' if he's strong. Both are on FWRs often. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> crazy gra in your tactic, one MC has defensive and other MC ofensive or booth MCs have the same instruction? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>One is defensive and one is attacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Jimlad Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Not overly keen on dragging up quite an old thread but since I'm still playing 07 and this is the basis of my tactical setup I thought I'd return to it for advice. From it I've used the standard 442 which works very well, and I've developed my own 433 formation where the mids and their instructions are setup as follows on the basis of corresponding instructions in the 442... <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> FC WNG WNG AM DM AM FB DC DC FB GK </pre> ...and the players in the DM/AM/WNG positions have farrows and barrows based on the tactical response to the AI at the time. Now having seen decent returns with the 433 I'm trying to develop a 4231 with the "2" being two players with DM instructions, and the "3" being 2 wingers and and 1 player behind the striker with AM instructions, and its with this AM, who I want to be my playmaker, my Scholes/Kaka/Iniesta, that I'm having a problem. Now granted I've only played one friendly in my first season so far but I was alarmed by the fact that while playing easy opposition Scholes, playing as my AM, got a 5 while everyone else seemingly managed to do alright with 7s and 8s. So please find below the outline of his instructions for each position... <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> DEF COU POS CON ATT Mentality: 5 9 13 17 18 Creative Freedom: 16 16 11 11 11 Passing Style: 11 6 7 7 7 Closing Down: 6 6 13 17 17 Tackling: N E N H H Forward Runs: R R M O O Run With Ball: R R R M M Long Shots: M M M M M Through Balls: M O O O O Cross Ball: R R R R R Cross From: M M M M M Cross Aim: M M M M M Swap Positions: N N N N N Marking: MAN MAN MAN - - Tight Marking: Y Y N - - Free Role: - - - Y Y Hold Up Ball: - - - - - </pre> Fingers crossed that worked and that its self explanatory enough. My gut guess is that it may be to do with the player mentality and the forward run instruction but I'd welcome some advice if there's any going because I'd like to get back from work and find a solution if at all possible so I can continue my game, so thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Jimlad Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 That should be "instructions for each tactical setup" not "position", and while I know that it could just be that he's had a bad game and the formation is just not tested properly yet, because of how that role didn't function in relation to the rest of the team, I'm pretty sure its my tactics. So once again thanks for any help thats forthcoming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Immediate thought is to play around with forward runs, either to rarely to get him dropping deeper, or mixed. In the aggressive tactics, with them so high, he is likely to be bypassed, never helping midfield moves, and never quite getting into attacking enough positions to be useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Jimlad Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I think that I've adapted to the situation, still not 100% on the solution because I'm still in pre-season but Scholes got injured and Modric stepped into the same role and has maintained a 7+ standard in ratings regardless of the tactical disposition of the team. In the Attack and Control formation where only my wingers have farrows the AMC has been fine, actually playing some nice through balls in the final third as well as arriving late on the scene to steal in goals around the penalty spot, its changes to the arrows in the Possession & Counter formation that seem to have facilitated better performances and greater involvement. In the first pre-season friendly I adapted to the AI changes with one of these for a spell and it affected Scholes rating negatively, but in each of these formations I had originally only had arrows attached to the MCs and they were both barrows. So based on the assumption that with these formations being deeper anyway the AMC in particular out of the forward players, especially with the greater emphasis on longer balls in these setups, was isolated, I set the AMC up with a barrow to the half-way line (the MCs were down to the DM line) and it seems to have helped with both the Counter and Possession strategies. Obviously without playing against proper teams in competitive games its difficult to gauge the success of this alteration properly but it doesn't feel as though the team is missing a player anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan: Immediate thought is to play around with forward runs, either to rarely to get him dropping deeper, or mixed. In the aggressive tactics, with them so high, he is likely to be bypassed, never helping midfield moves, and never quite getting into attacking enough positions to be useful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that as tactics in FM continue to evolve, we will have to begin to change our thinking toward what a manager IRL would have to consider - what tactics work best for my specific players against the specific players I'm facing. You mentioned earlier the difficulty developing tactics for lower level clubs. I'm living that right now, playing as Farsley Celtic in the BSP. I am cursed with players with most attributes below 12, and especially in pace and the technical skills. Many of my opponents, even in pre-season friendlies, are not similarly challenged. As a result, I am routinely faced with the prospect of having to match slow backs against quick forwards. This is the closest I have come in all my years playing CM/FM to my coaching experiences. For several years, I coached my son's team, which was composed primarily of players no one else wanted. We routinely faced teams that had both better physical tools and better game skills. I found that the only way I could counter such a situation IRL was to use very defensive fullbacks with BOTH a sweeper playing in back of them AND a stopper playing in front of them as a picket-player. I have begun experimenting with a system to do that in FM08. What I am working with at the moment (when facing a superior side using a standard 4-4-2)is a 1-4-1-2-2, with the wingbacks pushing up on the attack and also charged with marking (TM ticked) the opposing wingers, the center backs charged with marking (TM ticked) the opposing strikers, the sweeper on zonal marking and 0 close-down (to prevent being pulled out of position), the DMC on zonal marking and high close-down (to disrupt play getting the ball to the strikers - the main tenet of the system), the two MCs on man-marking (TM NOT ticked) and high close-down, the strikers on zonal marking (probably doesn't much matter). My first use of this system was for a match in which my side was "facing an impossible task" away from home. I managed a 1-1 draw. But I have found that having both wingbacks on the attack may leave me too exposed at the back, especially as the DMC gets pulled out of position. So, I'm toying with the idea of either reducing the DMC's close-down to zero to prevent him from being pulled out of position (though I fear he may become too passive) or only setting one wingback to join the attack, and alternating them periodically during the match. I'll post again as I develop the idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last resort Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 This may be out of topic. If it is, im sorry. And pardon for my english. Just a lad from Sweden. Anyhow, havent read the entire thread but to me theres another layer to consider /atleast i think so). The tactical bit that wwfan wrote in the beginning was an increadible job. Hats of to you! The other layer i mentioned is the hidden attributes that the players have. Anyone whos been inside the Editor or used FFM know theres some hidden attributes that contributes to the players overall understanding of the tactics we make up. The two im thinking of is Adaptability and Professionalism. Players with high Adaptability and Professionalism is more likey to adapt to the tactic. We all know that the players learn our tactics in a few games but to what extend? 40%?, 70%? Even though this thread is more how the AI try to "crack" the different tactics it still makes sense when your a good team with players that have high rating of the 2 attributes. It doesnt only mean they understand my tactic but also the opponents tactic (AI) and can defend according to it. I´ve played with both my own and others tactics and it usually takes 5-10 months for the AI to get a real grip on the tactic i play with small teams. But when i play with very good players my squad seems to overcomes that obstical with good results due to high overall attributes and as i asume the hidden attributes. This may be total wrong, its just an idea i had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnerfan Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 After another recent draw in which I played with the tactics quite a bit, I got a media message about springing tactical surprises. So, you might be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 There are many reasons as to why a player will/won't follow tactics, including Adaptability, Professionalism, current morale, cultural background etc. Good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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