How to play a pressing game in this game?

[thejay]

How?

I just cannot manage to do it and it starts to infuriate me.

I play a 433 with wingers, fluid and control mentality with a high defensive line, so it is vital to win the ball back quickly.

Hassle opponents get stuck in prevent goalkeeper distribution are all ticked.

My midfield gets passed easily, opposition players can play through is unopposed. My players are closing down half heartedly but really win the ball back through individual challenges.

Interceptions are out of the question because it is impossible to make multiple players of my team challenge the ball at the same time, its always one after the other.

How to do it? Or is it impossible with the current iteration of the match engine?

[Cleon]

You also have to remember the roles you choose are important because some of the roles don't have high closing down so even with the TI's it might still mean they aren't pressing how you like. Also are the players actually upto being able to play a pressing game, do they have the required attributes?

And closing down heavily is always risky if you don't win the ball and what you are seeing is the negative side of pressing when it doesn't work, you get players caught out of position and a simple ball can open you up and cause you all sorts of issues.

Aggressive Pressing

Teams try to win the ball back as quickly as possible wherever it be on the pitch and as close as possible to the opposition goal. It does require the whole team to push up at the same time as the pressure is placed on the opposition player. So playing as a unit is essential so roles and duties should compliment this style of play if not it can cause you massive issues. Teams who play this way also tend to use the offside trap due to how high up the pitch they tend to be playing. This strategy and style of play is mentally and physically demanding.

Technical Attributes

• Marking – Players need to be able to stick to their man and be capable of dealing with him and sticking with him..
  
• Tackling – You’d expect players to be doing a lot of tackles during the match and if you want to have more chance of winning those tackles cleanly without giving away dangerous free kicks or picking cards up then you’d want as high as possible for this attribute.
  

Mental Attributes

You basically want as many mental attributes as possible here.

• Anticipation – Players have to know their surroundings and need to second guess what the opposition players are going to do next before it even happens.
  
• Composure – This will help with how comfy a person is on the ball in hurried situations. So when under pressure from the opposition they will still attempt their ‘original decision’. This is important for this strategy as it will revolve around absorbing an intense amount of pressure.
  
• Concentration – Every single player needs to be switched on as you'll be high up the pitch, so any mistakes or lack of focus and you might find the opposition get in behind quickly.
  
• Decisions – It’s really important that the player can pick the correct decision. You don’t want him to suddenly decide to leave his position and go chasing someone who isn’t no threat do you? The decision attribute affects everything the player does so its vital he can always choose the correct decision more often than not. So you should aim for as high as possible.
  
• Bravery - You don’t want players who shy away from challenges, tackles or who only enter those situations half arsed. You want committed players who aren’t afraid to get stuck in.
  
• Aggression - A little bit of aggression is useful as the player will look to involve himself more which is ideal for a high pressing game where you want to impose yourself on the opposition and give them little room to breathe.
  
• Teamwork – You want to press as a unit plain and simple!.
  
• Workrate – Hard working players are an essential part of this strategy, you can’t afford luxury players who aren’t willing to put a shift in as this could cause huge amounts of issues.
  

Physical Attributes

• Acceleration – This will provide that little edge in gaining an extra yard on the opposition. This and pace are very important. I’ve not listed pace this go though as in situations like this players should be pretty close to the ones they are closing down anyway so this is where acceleration is more useful because its the initial burst of speed a player has.
  
• Stamina - One word, Vital! This strategy is very energetic and players are expected to consume lots of energy. So if their stamina is low then they are very unlikely to finish the full game.
  
• Natural Fitness - If you’re using this as a full time strategy then having players who have a high attribute for this will allow them to play more games in a shorter period of time as its basically a players recovery rate.
  

[iciomn]

...simply the pressing doesn't work well; the midfield line is never aligned and the midfielders run against ball player without organisation, like headless chickens.....the last good pressing i saw in this game was with fm2012....

[Rashidi]

...simply the pressing doesn't work well; the midfield line is never aligned and the midfielders run against ball player without organisation, like headless chickens.....the last good pressing i saw in this game was with fm2012....

Pressing still works in the game, it depends on the formation you use against the formation thats up. Your players attributes ( the most important factor) and the use of OI. Where your team elects to begin pressing is key...this you can't choose in the game so a lot of it depends on how you set up your formation. The game isn't designed for you to treat those dots as dots....these dots do some "decision making" in the background calculating whether its worth closing down, where the ball is and what your team shape looks like.

Hassle Opponents doesn't = High pressing..its harakiri

[Jambo98]

Pressing still works in the game, it depends on the formation you use against the formation thats up. Your players attributes ( the most important factor) and the use of OI. Where your team elects to begin pressing is key...this you can't choose in the game so a lot of it depends on how you set up your formation. The game isn't designed for you to treat those dots as dots....these dots do some "decision making" in the background calculating whether its worth closing down, where the ball is and what your team shape looks like.

Hassle Opponents doesn't = High pressing..its harakiri

Some great points there. Formation and shape are key to an effective pressing game. Simply put, if your player is in a position whereby pressing the ball aggressively would leave the team exposed, because the team shape means he does not have sufficient cover, he may not decide to close down. Unfortunately this does not appear to apply to Centre backs, hence the ongoing issue many people have where they charge out to close down at completely inappropriate times.

PS - I think "Hassle Opponents" was an FM14 term?Its been replaced by the more descriptive "close down more" or "close down much more" in game? Or am i misinterpretting?

[thejay]

If hassle opponents is not high pressing , what is?

I have a centre midfield trio dm cm cm with excellent stats required for pressing, but it hardly every feels like the midfield is an obstacle for the opposition to overcome. The players are dutifully shadowing the opposition players but do not directly move against them and force them away, also every player acts as an individual, it is not possible for multiple players to press a player at the same time or to cover passing lanes.

[thejay]

Some great points there. Formation and shape are key to an effective pressing game. Simply put, if your player is in a position whereby pressing the ball aggressively would leave the team exposed, because the team shape means he does not have sufficient cover, he may not decide to close down. Unfortunately this does not appear to apply to Centre backs, hence the ongoing issue many people have where they charge out to close down at completely inappropriate times.

PS - I think "Hassle Opponents" was an FM14 term?Its been replaced by the more descriptive "close down more" or "close down much more" in game? Or am i misinterpretting?

The point is not that I get exposed because players are pressing too strongly and therefore distort the team shape, that is not the issue.

Thats how it should be , press too aggressively and get pulled apart , that is the danger of playing aggressive pressing, but that is not what is happening in the game, rather pressing lacks any real aggressiveness and winning the ball is only effective on the flanks, for whatever reason.

[Jambo98]

The point is not that I get exposed because players are pressing too strongly and therefore distort the team shape, that is not the issue.

Thats how it should be , press too aggressively and get pulled apart , that is the danger of playing aggressive pressing, but that is not what is happening in the game, rather pressing lacks any real aggressiveness and winning the ball is only effective on the flanks, for whatever reason.

It sort of is the point. Because that will be part of the reason the players are not pressing. They are not robots (to rashidi's point about the dots). They will not blindly carry out instructions.

Who are the 3 players, what is the team formation/shape and what are their roles/duties?

[thejay]

It sort of is the point. Because that will be part of the reason the players are not pressing. They are not robots (to rashidi's point about the dots). They will not blindly carry out instructions.

Who are the 3 players, what is the team formation/shape and what are their roles/duties?

Even if they do carry out the instructions the instructions are not effective, sometimes it looks like the players are moving to pressing the right manner at least it looks like the do, but this hardly if ever results in a ball recuperation.

The players do not effectively challenge the opposition player, rather they let him advance and pass through the midfield even though they are in an advantageous position to win back the ball.

This also happens with players with very high tackling stats, the only difference is you see the occasional slide tackle.

Pressing in this iteration of the match engine does not seem advantageous at all and provides none of the advantages and all the disadvantages, you do not gain anything from pressing high because the players cannot perform the actual act of winning back the ball even if they are and a very good position to do so.

To clarify what I mean, when I instruct them to hassle opponents or close down much more how ever it is called in fm15, most of the time a players runs towards his opponent with the ball, it seems like he is going to aggressively challenge him, but about 1m in front of the player he stops and now shadows the player, following him dutifully while he dribbles through the midfield while his team-mates watch on, until he is at the edge of the box where the defenders are able to make a challenge or not.

The vast majority of times only defenders are able to make challenges to the ball even though their stats not better at winning back the ball compared to a midfield player. Central defenders and Fullbacks, the midfield does not seem like an obstacle to overcome, at least not when pressing high and playing a high defensive line.

Its absolutely impossible to play anything remotely like Dortmund or Leverkusen do.

[Cleon]

The tackling attribute just means how good they are at tackling, not the type of tackles they do or how frequent.

Pressing on FM is black and white its either all or nothing with no inbetween. But again the roles you have selected are important for this and the midfield needs to have the correct roles. What roles are you using? You've only mentioned the position they play in not the roles.

[thejay]

The tackling attribute just means how good they are at tackling, not the type of tackles they do or how frequent.

Pressing on FM is black and white its either all or nothing with no inbetween. But again the roles you have selected are important for this and the midfield needs to have the correct roles. What roles are you using? You've only mentioned the position they play in not the roles.

I tried multiple roles for the midfield trio, anchorman, dlp s ap a, dm d cm s cma , dlp d , dlp s ap s, etc, basically ever combination except for two ball wining midfielder and a dm, I gave them individual instructions to tackle harder and close down more often , it hardly makes a difference

[Cleon]

Tackle harder won't make them press more though, that's just instructing them to tackle when 100%, 50% etc certain they'll win the ball. Those roles you mention though aren't aggressive roles, that's why you see the difference when you use a BWM because they have high closing down by default, the other roles are much lower.

[Jambo98]

Also, teams that employ heavy pressing do not necessarily rely on "tackling". The idea of pressing is to restrict space and force the opposition to cede possession. More often this will come by way of an intercepted pass, or a poor pass, because you closed down the space, not by physically tackling the man in possession (that is not to say there is never tackling with pressing at all).

The players roles, as Cleon mentioned, and also the attributes are vital.

People think it should be easy to get a pressing game going in FM. I have said this before, but how many teams manage it in real? Dortmund/Athletico/Barca are always used as the examples, but there is a reason Hull and Catania dont do it.

[thejay]

Also, teams that employ heavy pressing do not necessarily rely on "tackling". The idea of pressing is to restrict space and force the opposition to cede possession. More often this will come by way of an intercepted pass, or a poor pass, because you closed down the space, not by physically tackling the man in possession (that is not to say there is never tackling with pressing at all).

The players roles, as Cleon mentioned, and also the attributes are vital.

People think it should be easy to get a pressing game going in FM. I have said this before, but how many teams manage it in real? Dortmund/Athletico/Barca are always used as the examples, but there is a reason Hull and Catania dont do it.

I know that high pressing teams do not really rely on tackling , but good luck getting that to work in fm , winning the ball back like barca while staying on the feet and by closing down passing lanes is impossible. I would require a pressing effort with multiple players focusing on attacking the opposition player while the others block the passing lanes.

I do not think such a thing is possible in the match engine.

[Jambo98]

If you wont supply more information such as that Cleon asked for, and a proper breakdown of your setup, then no one can help you.

If you are simply looking for vindication and people to agree that the ME is flawed, then your in the wrong forum

[thejay]

Tackle harder won't make them press more though, that's just instructing them to tackle when 100%, 50% etc certain they'll win the ball. Those roles you mention though aren't aggressive roles, that's why you see the difference when you use a BWM because they have high closing down by default, the other roles are much lower.

So it should work when giving less aggressive roles the individual instruction to close down more? Which does not really make any difference because the issue seem rather with winning the ball back when closing down than the process of closing down itself.

I think this is a balancing issue because the match engine has trouble to replicate off the ball movement correctly, on the unpatched version of Fm15, closing down was working correctly , but there was no creativity from the midfield and only crosses resulted in goals.

So now in the last patch, the mid fielders are given space , now the midfield works much better but closing down does not.

Also those are issues that I am observing in every fm version in the last 6 or so years, not just in this version

[cmonreds]

and winning the ball is only effective on the flanks, for whatever reason.

Using theory from real life this is a good thing. Analyzis of Barca in the 10-11 season showed that this often was the aim with their high pressing. They showed the opponents out to the sides, where they would go in and try to regain the ball. In the middle of the pitch they would often just hinder the opponents in playing the ball forward, by blocking passing lanes and tight marking. Eventually the opponents would end up on either side with the ball. The reason behind this is that it it easier to win the ball back on the flanks.

In the middle of the pitch there is an possible angle of 360 degrees to pass the ball, whilst towards the sidelines this angle is decreased to 180 degrees. This gives your opponents fewer options and their actions are easier to read. As an result it is easier to close down the opponent with the ball this way. You can do it with 3-4 players and efficiently regain the ball.

A lot of the details from real life we cannot use in FM, still it is possible to press high and succeed. Go to tactics - analysis - last match - team talk feedback. In the top of the screen here you will see the level of team cohesion/understanding of the players playing this match. The highest level is : Willing to die for eachother. The second highest level is: Has forged an extremely strong understanding.

For high pressing and offside trap to fully work your team cohesion should be at the two highest levels.

[thejay]

Using theory from real life this is a good thing. Analyzis of Barca in the 10-11 season showed that this often was the aim with their high pressing. They showed the opponents out to the sides, where they would go in and try to regain the ball. In the middle of the pitch they would often just hinder the opponents in playing the ball forward, by blocking passing lanes and tight marking. Eventually the opponents would end up on either side with the ball. The reason behind this is that it it easier to win the ball back on the flanks.

In the middle of the pitch there is an possible angle of 360 degrees to pass the ball, whilst towards the sidelines this angle is decreased to 180 degrees. This gives your opponents fewer options and their actions are easier to read. As an result it is easier to close down the opponent with the ball this way. You can do it with 3-4 players and efficiently regain the ball.

A lot of the details from real life we cannot use in FM, still it is possible to press high and succeed. Go to tactics - report - last match - team talk feedback. In the top of the screen here you will see the level of team cohesion/understanding of the players playing this match. The highest level is : Willing to die for eachother. The second highest level is: Has forged an extremely strong understanding.

For high pressing and offside trap to fully work your team cohesion should be at the two highest levels.

How you describe winning the ball on the flanks does mean because the players is attacked by players on one side and the outline is on the other, he has less options and therefore looses the ball.

How it is on Fm is that often it is one on one winger with fullback and the fullback makes a tackling which seems like having a much higher chance of success compared to the players in midfield even though the full backs stats do not justify that.

You hardly ever see a coordinated pressing effort resulting in the opposition player making a wrong decision resulting in interceptions.

[cmonreds]

How you describe winning the ball on the flanks does mean because the players is attacked by players on one side and the outline is on the other, he has less options and therefore looses the ball.

How it is on Fm is that often it is one on one winger with fullback and the fullback makes a tackling which seems like having a much higher chance of success compared to the players in midfield even though the full backs stats do not justify that.

You hardly ever see a coordinated pressing effort resulting in the opposition player making a wrong decision resulting in interceptions.

What are your squads team cohesion?

[thejay]

What are your squads team cohesion?

Our current players have developed a strong understanding

[cmonreds]

Our current players have developed a strong understanding

Then you have a couple of levels to climb regarding team cohesion before the pressing side of the game will be satisfactorily. If you have a good tactic then things will click once the highest levels are reached.

[thejay]

Then you have a couple of levels to climb regarding team cohesion before the pressing side of the game will be satisfactorily. If you have a good tactic then things will click once the highest levels are reached.

Didn't really pay attention to this stat since it was moved somewhere else , so maybe this is the answer, thx

[Jambo98]

I think it would be interesting for people to share here some role/duty/TI/PI combinations they have used to create a successful press, and with some examples would be great to help others.

I will give it a go setting one up on my AC Milan save which is somewhat redundant at the moment as i have failed in my Sacchi experiment! I will try to get a setup and see if i can screenshot some successful pressing

[thomit]

Well, to start off with you need to have the midfield sorted. The OP complains that his midfield gets bypassed easily ... I suspect that it is exactly because of this heavy pressing that that occurs. Specially a 4231 is vulnerable. The two CM midfielders need to be somewhat constrained when it comes to pressing, and to be positionally "safe" when not in possession. A holding CM is needed, and there's only three roles that could be said to be holding available for the CM strata; DLP/d, CM/d and DLP/s. None of them are true holding mids like the HB or Anchor (for the DM strata) is, and the DLP/s is the least efficient/most vulnerable as a holder of these three. In addition, his midfield companion should offer reliable defensive support, so that rules out the BWM/d or s, the CM/a and the AP/a. It leaves the CM/s, BBM, AP/s or RPM as the choice for the other mid, alternatively a DLP/s for the extra cautious. By the way; both the BBM and the RPM is "safe" for the purpose of defensive positioning, they roam only when your team has the ball in possession. Of course, their roaming when in possession could have brought them too far away from their defensive positions to be immediately effective defensively sometimes, but they still should be considered to be defensive support players. The safest bet is the CM/s.

I am playing a pressing game myself (4231 Wide, Very Fluid, Control with Close down more, work ball, whip crosses and roaming), and balancing the midfield is key. The pressing should mainly be the work of the front 3 or 4 players. Choosing a DLP/d and a CM/s as the midfield duo, I get the necessary moderation and constraint in pressing and aggressiveness from those two. I haven't told them to close down less individually, I haven't found it necessary. Their main defensive task is not to defend aggressively, but to screen the defense and try to delay the opponents attack when possession is lost, while other players are tracking back to their defensive positions. The CM/s will of course be a tad more aggressive than the DLP/d.

I have very few PI's; the keeper (SK/d) is told to distribute to full backs, and the left wide man (IF/s) is told to sit narrower. That's it. The other roles are WB/s (right), CD/d - CD/d, WB/a (left), IF/a (right), AP/a (central) and CF/a. I have my DLP/d left center and the CM/s right center.

I could have asked my front 4 players to close down even more on an individual basis, but I can't tell the difference when I do, and there's sadly no visual indication in the UI that could tell me if I actually have done a meaningful and effective change or not. As I can't see a difference when I watch the game, I have to conclude that there is none. I sometimes add the "prevent short GK distribution" if I sense that the other team is playing a deep, careful keep-the-ball-at-all-costs game, but to be honest I haven't been able to spot a real difference with that either. My suspicion is that with Control + close down more, my players are already at their max or close to max closing down level, and that adding more closing down - either individually or by additional TI's - won't have any (or very little) further effect.

Nevertheless, I am having considerable success with this setup, winning the PL every season in my first 3 seasons with Arsenal, the FA once and CL finalist once. In 2 of those seasons we have both scored the most goals and let in the fewest in the PL. I think that says a lot.

[thejay]

Playing a much higher defensive line and giving the midfield players individual instructions to tackle harder and playing the full backs on the wing back spot with the deepest midfielder as half back, makes it work somewhat now.

[Cleon]

Tackling harder DOES NOT make you press better.

[Jambo98]

Well, to start off with you need to have the midfield sorted. The OP complains that his midfield gets bypassed easily ... I suspect that it is exactly because of this heavy pressing that that occurs. Specially a 4231 is vulnerable. The two CM midfielders need to be somewhat constrained when it comes to pressing, and to be positionally "safe" when not in possession. A holding CM is needed, and there's only three roles that could be said to be holding available for the CM strata; DLP/d, CM/d and DLP/s. None of them are true holding mids like the HB or Anchor (for the DM strata) is, and the DLP/s is the least efficient/most vulnerable as a holder of these three. In addition, his midfield companion should offer reliable defensive support, so that rules out the BWM/d or s, the CM/a and the AP/a. It leaves the CM/s, BBM, AP/s or RPM as the choice for the other mid, alternatively a DLP/s for the extra cautious. By the way; both the BBM and the RPM is "safe" for the purpose of defensive positioning, they roam only when your team has the ball in possession. Of course, their roaming when in possession could have brought them too far away from their defensive positions to be immediately effective defensively sometimes, but they still should be considered to be defensive support players. The safest bet is the CM/s.

I am playing a pressing game myself (4231 Wide, Very Fluid, Control with Close down more, work ball, whip crosses and roaming), and balancing the midfield is key. The pressing should mainly be the work of the front 3 or 4 players. Choosing a DLP/d and a CM/s as the midfield duo, I get the necessary moderation and constraint in pressing and aggressiveness from those two. I haven't told them to close down less individually, I haven't found it necessary. Their main defensive task is not to defend aggressively, but to screen the defense and try to delay the opponents attack when possession is lost, while other players are tracking back to their defensive positions. The CM/s will of course be a tad more aggressive than the DLP/d.

I have very few PI's; the keeper (SK/d) is told to distribute to full backs, and the left wide man (IF/s) is told to sit narrower. That's it. The other roles are WB/s (right), CD/d - CD/d, WB/a (left), IF/a (right), AP/a (central) and CF/a. I have my DLP/d left center and the CM/s right center.

I could have asked my front 4 players to close down even more on an individual basis, but I can't tell the difference when I do, and there's sadly no visual indication in the UI that could tell me if I actually have done a meaningful and effective change or not. As I can't see a difference when I watch the game, I have to conclude that there is none. I sometimes add the "prevent short GK distribution" if I sense that the other team is playing a deep, careful keep-the-ball-at-all-costs game, but to be honest I haven't been able to spot a real difference with that either. My suspicion is that with Control + close down more, my players are already at their max or close to max closing down level, and that adding more closing down - either individually or by additional TI's - won't have any (or very little) further effect.

Nevertheless, I am having considerable success with this setup, winning the PL every season in my first 3 seasons with Arsenal, the FA once and CL finalist once. In 2 of those seasons we have both scored the most goals and let in the fewest in the PL. I think that says a lot.

Glad you are having great success. That post was a little confusing first time i read it! You mention that the 4231 is vunerable when playing a high press, then go on to explain how you are playing that very same formation! However sounds like it works for you. Those roles really don't sound like the ones i would have expected to see pressing a lot.

As you say, a "holder" who perhaps does not take part in the active press is important. I would think that your DLP(d) will give you that, and CM(s) some level of pressing.

Infact now that i read what you have said again, you are actually not describing a pressing game at all? Your midfield you specifically ask to screen the defence, which in many ways is the oppposite of a high press? The other roles, i would think that an AP in particular is not likely to press much, IF would be moderate, and CF, whilst heavily impacted by player type, would likely be told to go "outwith the game plan".

It sounds like you have something which works very well, but i would say it doesnt sound like a high press to me. At least not in the sense of the Barca/Bayern/Dortmund/Athletico that the OP was mainly aiming for.

That said, some very sound advice in there about the roles in the CM strata - something which a lot of people can take something from

[thejay]

Tackling harder DOES NOT make you press better.

But it does make them challenge the ball more often which was actually the issue I had, I did not explain it accurately enough

[Noel Gallagher]

How are you viewing your matches? If you are only watching key highlights, for example, it could be that for the majority of the match your team are pressing as you want but you don't see it. Have you watched any games in full detail?

[thomit]

Glad you are having great success. That post was a little confusing first time i read it! You mention that the 4231 is vunerable when playing a high press, then go on to explain how you are playing that very same formation! However sounds like it works for you. Those roles really don't sound like the ones i would have expected to see pressing a lot.

As you say, a "holder" who perhaps does not take part in the active press is important. I would think that your DLP(d) will give you that, and CM(s) some level of pressing.

Infact now that i read what you have said again, you are actually not describing a pressing game at all? Your midfield you specifically ask to screen the defence, which in many ways is the oppposite of a high press? The other roles, i would think that an AP in particular is not likely to press much, IF would be moderate, and CF, whilst heavily impacted by player type, would likely be told to go "outwith the game plan".

It sounds like you have something which works very well, but i would say it doesnt sound like a high press to me. At least not in the sense of the Barca/Bayern/Dortmund/Athletico that the OP was mainly aiming for.

That said, some very sound advice in there about the roles in the CM strata - something which a lot of people can take something from

I didn't say I was after a pressing game where all players closes down max all the time ... that to me is suicide. Neither am I after the Pep/Klopp way of pressing max for a few seconds immediately after losing possession, then relax a bit if the ball is not won back immediately. That is not possible to recreate in the current match engine. If that was possible, I would have tried that approach, sure. But playing Control is inherently high pressing, with a high(ish) d-line. Adding the "close down more" TI to that, makes it even higher pressing. I call that a high pressing game. And indeed, watching the matches I can see that my team press high and is relentless in harassing the opponent. So that's what I will call it.

Yes, the 4231 can be vulnerable to counter attacks when pressing high - that however does not mean one should avoid it for that reason alone; it has other inherent qualities that makes up for that. For a fast paced, controlling/dominating game it is bang on. One just has to be aware of the inherent vulnerabilities and balance the midfield in order to minimize it. Some do it by re-shaping it to be a 4411, or even a 4141; I don't think that is necessary. The wide men (IF's) in my 4231 offer just about enough defending in the current m.e. Even the one on attacking duty. Can maybe thank the Very Fluid shape for that? So; balance the midfield, use fast and/or positionally clever defenders, and a SK to sweep. Risk minimized. But still there.

[Rashidi]

Tackling harder DOES NOT make you press better.

10 years and people still don't get this:-(

[thejay]

10 years and people still don't get this:-(

But it does make the players try more challenges at the risk of more fouls, does it not?

[Cleon]

But it does make the players try more challenges at the risk of more fouls, does it not?

It doesn't make them challenge more as such. It just means they'll try more risky challenges so they'll challenge when there is even only 20% of winning the ball. But that doesn't mean more tackles and in a lot of cases will be the exact opposite, if someone challenges a player when they don't really have much chance of winning the ball then that means they'll be bypassed easy and be out of place because chances are they went to ground. If someone only tackles when he has a high chance of winning the ball then they will nearly always be on their feet so can move around quicker and easier to make another challenge.

But it does make them challenge the ball more often which was actually the issue I had, I did not explain it accurately enough

Really? Because your posts in this thread suggested you was asking for something else and said your players weren't pressing high enough. So you actually didn't want a high pressing game after all? As high pressing relies heavily on the players winning the ball back early, using hard tackling actually goes against this because you reduce the quality of challenges.

If I'm being honest you seem a bit confused with what you want and seem to be confusing high pressing with players attempting to win the ball back.

[iciomn]

Is someone able to explain how to do a good pressing in FM2015???? (i suspect noone will be because now TC is quite a black box) In Fm2012 we had a lovely pressing; with sliders you were able to adjust the level of pressing and see the results on the pitch of yr settings......Now???...a mistery....pls dont answer about roles...because also ronaldo, bale, pirlo, robben,messi and so on do quite a good pressing during the match....or does SI think that pressing is an exclusive duty of DM???...pressing is a 'collective tactic' and it is in rl not related to single roles......Attributes, roles, shape....all good......but in FM2012 we saw a good pressing...in FM2015 is quite a nightmare...

[thejay]

It doesn't make them challenge more as such. It just means they'll try more risky challenges so they'll challenge when there is even only 20% of winning the ball. But that doesn't mean more tackles and in a lot of cases will be the exact opposite, if someone challenges a player when they don't really have much chance of winning the ball then that means they'll be bypassed easy and be out of place because chances are they went to ground. If someone only tackles when he has a high chance of winning the ball then they will nearly always be on their feet so can move around quicker and easier to make another challenge.

Really? Because your posts in this thread suggested you was asking for something else and said your players weren't pressing high enough. So you actually didn't want a high pressing game after all? As high pressing relies heavily on the players winning the ball back early, using hard tackling actually goes against this because you reduce the quality of challenges.

If I'm being honest you seem a bit confused with what you want and seem to be confusing high pressing with players attempting to win the ball back.

If the challenge the ball when there is less % percent chance to win the ball they in fact try more tackles, or not?

What you have said about being bypassed more easily would require them to go to the ground more often when on hard tackling. Now I have watched several matches on full detail with hard tackling and I could not observe that.

What I meant in the original post was that the players where moving in to press but did not actually try to win the ball back , hence the pressing being ineffective, hard tackling does seem to improve that

[Cleon]

If the challenge the ball when there is less % percent chance to win the ball they in fact try more tackles, or not?

No. It just means they'll tackle when the challenge isn't 100% but that does not translate to more tackles.

What you have said about being bypassed more easily would require them to go to the ground more often when on hard tackling. Now I have watched several matches on full detail with hard tackling and I could not observe that.

Well it does. Maybe you are super lucky and have players with perfect attributes across the board or played really weak opposition but I can assure you it happens and frequent when they miss the tackle. Post any PKM and I'll gladly show you.

[Jungztar]

I think that there is too much focus on choosing a TI or PI and thinking that the player/team will literally do that right away and every time..... My perception of pressing is more linked to how you position your players and how you want the different transitions during the game to work.

So I am thinking more like how aggressive do I want to be and how much time will I allow the opponent on the ball in the different areas on the pitch.... This is very much linked to how I want my own "play-build-up" to Work.... Why be aggressive and chase every ball and then play "patient, slow short passing" once I win the ball? But it also depends on the diffent players you have and their abilities.

I don't think you will find a "one-size-fits-all" approach to pressing because there are so many variables to consider (and that's even before we start looking at a given opponent). Adding hard tackling etc. is not gonna change that IMO.

[thejay]

No. It just means they'll tackle when the challenge isn't 100% but that does not translate to more tackles.

More tackling attempts then ? I though hard tackling means challenging when there is less than 100% chance of winning the ball with the drawback of more fouls and the occasional overcommitted slide tackle which results in a disadvantageous postilion for the defender?

So hard tackling potentially results in more ball recuperations.

Well it does. Maybe you are super lucky and have players with perfect attributes across the board or played really weak opposition but I can assure you it happens and frequent when they miss the tackle. Post any PKM and I'll gladly show you.

So I should see players sliding all over the place which I do not really see.

How does hard tackling affect the percentage of slide tackles ?

[Rock787]

what are peoples thoughts in regards to CB's and pressing. Should they be told to press less in an effort to try to hold up the attacker like a holding midfielder or would that defeat the point?

[Double0Seven]

They should press and get the ball back before the attacker has the time and space to run into dangerous area's or can pass to others. But if you play a good press most of the times your CB's are not the one who will be pressing much.

[Rock787]

i get that but you can't stop every long ball, if a ball is hoofed out wide and the striker gets to it would you want your CB to try to close him down or hold him up?

[RTHerringbone]

what are peoples thoughts in regards to CB's and pressing. Should they be told to press less in an effort to try to hold up the attacker like a holding midfielder or would that defeat the point?

I'm a cautious player, and never have my DCs set to Close Down More. For the way I play, it's too risky as it just increases the likelihoods of creating an exploitable channel of space, and I usually end up with very good defensive records partly as a result of this.

[Rock787]

I'm a cautious player, and never have my DCs set to Close Down More. For the way I play, it's too risky as it just increases the likelihoods of creating an exploitable channel of space, and I usually end up with very good defensive records partly as a result of this.

But you don't put them on Close Down Less either right?

[RTHerringbone]

But you don't put them on Close Down Less either right?

I did actually do that for the first season of my Southampton save just to see if it would stop one of the DCs from stepping out to act as a Stopper (he had a Defend Duty), but it didn't work.

[Jambo98]

I am having a go at setting up a bit of a pressing system as it is something i have not focused on overly this year and fancied finding out for myself. I was intrigued and interested in the point around the need to consider your roles and duties- Good advice IMO. A team of playmakers and Inside Forwards and False 9 does not, in principle, look like one set up to press (although i appreciate it can be made to work). I was also conscious of the need to retain a semblance of shape along with the pressing, and my view on that was to keep one "non pressing" deep midfield player.

To accommodate my desire for "pressing based roles" and also leave a "sitter", i had to get a bit creative. I went with a back 3 to free up an extra body for the midfield.

The roles/duties i chose to try and build a pressing game were:

Sweeper Keeper (Defend) - Will be a high line, unfortunately the other 2 duties mess up goal keeper distribution so has to stay as "defend"

Central Defender (Defend) x 3 - I originaly played with a middle defender on "cover" but did not like the shape, so for now a flat 3 it is - These 3 are set to "close down much less" by PI

Deep Lying Playmaker (Defend) - In the DM slot, this is my "holder". He is set to "close down less" by PI and his duty will be varied by game conditions and opponent. He is the layer of protection when my CM strata goes pressing, and also covers the middle of the pitch deep when the outer DC have to go wide to cover balls in behind the pressing wide men

Defensive Winger (Support) x 2 - This role is designed, according to the descriptor, to win the ball back high up the field. It also of course provides some defensive discipline. It is a high pressing role by default so no PI here. The use of different player types will make the roles function differently on each side of the pitch

Ball Wining Midfielder (Support) - A role that is at times much derided, the BWM, usually because it is used wrong. In a pressing system, with appropriate cover, its great. This guy is all about pressing and tacking. His support duty means he is not averse to adding something to the attacking side of our game either. A player with pressing type attributes is, of course, key

Central Midfielder (Attack) - Not necessarily a default "high pressing" role but not "low" either. I could compensate by adding the PI, but thus far have not found it necessary. His duty naturally finds him high up the field and our TI and mentality mean he presses from there. I could have gone for another BWM here, but that would be at the expensive of my attacking game. There is no point pressing if you then cant do anything with the ball when you have it

Advanced Playmaker (Attack) - In the AMCR slot, this one is where i had to prioritise attacking ability over pressing in the role, and compensated by PI "Close down more". Again his high starting position works in his favour, and like the CM(a), the player type is vital to maintaining the press. Although this guy is our key attacking man, i deliberately targeted a type who can do that and still be hard working.

Complete Forward (Support) - Again i think a moderate pressing role by default (although i am open to correction on this). I did try AF(a) which presses the backline more, but he was much higher than the rest of the team so it didnt work as well for me. Again for this role, because of the role type, and because he is our highest player, PI "Press much more often is added"

Team Instructions - I have the combo of "Higher Line", "Close down more" and "prevent short GK distribution" - Along with Control mentality this gives me a fairly intense high press, without going totally extreme.

Nothing revolutionary there, just taking some thoughts from the thread and trying to put them into option. In particular thinking about the midfield and how roles and duties can really impact the ability to play a good pressing game. This setup works quite well for me, in a team which is not yet close to high gelling (lot of new signings and this is also a totally different system to last season).

Which also brings me to what pressing should actually achieve - A fair bit of debate in the thread about whether its press to tackle, press to force particular passes, press to intercept etc. I am personally more of the view that pressing should be about "wining possesion". Whether that be a tackle, an intercept, or simply forcing the opposition to give the ball away via a bad pass. Clearly, in my eyes, the tackle is the hardest way to win it back, but also quite high reward. Interceptions are also high reward, but against good football teams, not always that easy to force. I am playing in Serie A and the Champions League, so teams are not going to be suddenly scared by facing high press.

The screenshots below show a recent match against Sampdoria. The performance wasnt perfect by any means, and we conceded twice which is poor. Neither goal was a result of lack of shape at least, both coming from below average defending by individuals, not tracking a man and a poor tackle decision by a young CB.

However, post match i wanted to analyse what i thought i had seen in our pressing game. We did press high, not perfect cohesion at this point but pretty good in the earlyish days of tactic development. However we did not make many tackles in the final third, nor did we intercept a huge amount. First 2 screenshots show our tackles and interceptions:

The interceptions show a very nice grouping in the middle of the field, and whilst i would like to move that grouping another 5/10 yards up the pitch, for now i accept that is probably due to the level of risk passing the opponent showed. They were safe with passes in their own third (as we will come to in a moment), but once they moved forward and tried higher risk, our pressing lead to more intercepts.

Likewise the tackling map shows a good few tackles high up the pitch, with a small cluster from my BWM particularly a good sign. As an aside, it also showed that our shape forces the opponents to work down the flanks, which i am reasonably happy about, once i improve my overall defending to stop goals from wide positions.

Those 2 combined dont overly hint at a successfull high press, so i looked at the third element - Pressing forcing possession turn overs. I looked at the map of passes from Sampdoria which were "not completed":

Now, clearly a chunk of this is down to the rather iratating and long running issue that the analysis screen cant differentiate clearances and passes, but that will mainly apply to the red dots inside their own box. Even without those, there are a good percentage of passes from inside their own half which turn over possession. I know from watching the game that much of this is because the ball carrier was put under pressure and had to simply "lump it".

Just for comparison, here is my teams passing "not complete" from the same game

Now there are a few things i wouldnt be delighted about in this image, but they dont particularly relate to pressing so not relevant for here - It just show the comparison of a side pressed against, and a side "not".

I guess the point in this part is to take some time to analyse the type of pressing you want and see, and dont always be sucked in by basic match stats - Watch carefully and analyse in depth

Interested in views as to whether others do the same, or different ways to approach it etc.

[Torskus77]

I did actually do that for the first season of my Southampton save just to see if it would stop one of the DCs from stepping out to act as a Stopper (he had a Defend Duty), but it didn't work.

Is it just that the instruction simply doesn't work then? I have tried similar too, but it doesn't seem to achieve a lot.

I watched the Southampton game tonight (your team I believe?) Although against a pretty poor Ipswich side, I've seen Southampton a few times this season, and one of the reasons they have been so difficult to break down in my opinion is for 2 reasons. The double pivot in front of the back four, but also the way that the center backs never ever get dragged out of their zone (they don't need to because the double pivot screens them so well) Excellent decision making by the two center backs tonight.

Although Southampton have some quality players, would be disrespectful to say otherwise, I think they are a great example of a good solid tactic set up allowing a team to get that extra 10% which. Anyway, not trying to drag the thread of track, it was hopefully kind of relevant at least.

[peleJunior]

For me it's all about two things. 1. Attributes & 2. Fluidity.

1. Hard working, high stamina, anticipation.

2. The press has got to move like a single entity, a very fluid philosophy helps achieve this.

That's the pressing part, what you do when you win the ball back (which is the whole point) is the real conundrum.

[Double0Seven]

What is your fluidity? I see a bunch of specialist roles so I would guess its standard/rigid? Or is it very fluid because you want everyone to be able to defend?

I find it harder to press against formations such as 4-3-3 or 3-1-4-2. Formations with lots of passing options. Against those kinds of formations I often look to force play to one side(their weakest) and hope that we can win the ball back there. Using a striker to man mark left/right defender and using OIs. Something I got from cmonreds thread last year and he also mentions it this year.

[Jambo98]

For me it's all about two things. 1. Attributes & 2. Fluidity.

1. Hard working, high stamina, anticipation.

2. The press has got to move like a single entity, a very fluid philosophy helps achieve this.

That's the pressing part, what you do when you win the ball back (which is the whole point) is the real conundrum.

Agree completely on the first part, and it is very much also an agreement with Cleon's early post here. There are some very key attributes. I looked for Team Work/Work Rate / Stamina / Anticipation and a few others. For me Sami Khedira was the absolute best suited player. He might to be fast or amazing on the ball (although he is pretty damn good), but his mental stats, backed up by Stamina and Natural Fitness at 17/17 make him superb at that.

On the "single entity", i disagree to an extent. I specifically do not want 4 of my players to press at all (i may allow the "outer" DC's at some point, but not at the moment). The DLP must remain in position or else our pressing can just be bypassed. I prefer to achieve the "united press" via the right role and duty combos and high teamwork and team gelling (not yet there). I use "flexible" shape at the moment and it works reasonably well. I want my midfield working as a single unit to press, along with my AM/Striker. The AM/Striker are the "first wave" and the midfield 4 must press together close behind them. The high Dline and support duty striker helps achieve this, my closing up the space between the lines.

That said, if the very fluid is your chosen tool, and it works, then it just goes to show that there are more than one ways to both view and achieve a pressing game :*)

The last part is also about the player types. I need good composure and technically gifted players in my attacking roles. When we do win the ball back high, we are not always going to have space and time to then work things, we need quick thinking, players who are comfortable in tight situations and a bit of flair. I targeted at least 3 of that player type (whilst also looking at the afore mentioned pressing attributes) for my 3 most attacking roles. Outwide i deliberately went for one hard worker, and one player who would normally be considered too attacking for a DW role, but has the skills needed.

[peleJunior]

Khedira is a brilliant player for the system, Jordan Henderson is another, they may not be the most glamorous but when surrounded with the right types it can be real crushing machine. Getting the mix between these types and the maestro's is what can put the tactic into overdrive.