Wage and negotations are still broken

[Argie86x]

Im suffering from: Declining players asking way more than they already earn, Players demanding (yes demanding I cannot negotiate the minor change) double of his wages, let me show you:

Riquelme 34 years old, a declining player earning 1.4 millions $ per year, now he ask 1.9 million per year, he won't accept 1,5 millions (100k more than he earn actually) (1,5 millions is my maximum wage allowed)

Agustin Orion with a wage of 850k ask for 1,4 million, he wont accept even 1,3 million, which is ridiculous. He demand a 164% of increase on his wage lol

Nicolas Colazo, another crazy guy, he just want a double of his wage, he wont accept 1,1 millions, really?

Diego Rivero, wage 550k ask for 975k, 177% of increase... he`ll reduce his demands to 950. Good boy

And this can go on, easly most of my players are asking incredible amounts of money, and the worst part is, they won't accept a slighty minor wage, if they ask for 900k don't you dare to offer 800k, even if 800k is actually the double of his wage at the moment of the negotation.

The same with youths, some of them still ask way too much money after X games, and they won't negotiate a bit.

I rembember in FM12/11/10/etc players asking for big wages too, but atleast you could negotiate with them and they will almost every time accept a reduction of they demands.

Im the only one facing this problem?

[BiggusD]

Negotiation in FM13? No such thing.

Me: what do these cost?

Peddler: £25

Me: I'll give you £10

Peddler: are you kidding me? They are worth at least £20!

Me: the other peddler down the street charges only £13! I give you £14 for these so I don't have to go back...

Peddler: I have 8 kids and a wife, we'll starve if I give my wares away. £18!

Me: Ok, I give you £15. Final offer. *shows money*

Peddler: Sold! You drive a hard bargain sir.

That's a negotiation.

Agent: my client wants £80k pw

Me: he's already on 50k, what has he done to deserve a 60% wage increase? I can give him 60, not a penny more!

Agent: my client wants £80k pw

Me: ...

That's what FM calls a "negotiaton". I laugh...

Until contract negotiations actually involve a negotation, which means that the initial "offer" of the agent can be changed by 30-50%, then I will continue to laugh.

[ChelseaSince86]

But to be fair, nobody on this forum has ever sat in a room during a "real" transfer negotiation by a football club so maybe this is exactly how it is sometimes

[Argie86x]

But to be fair, nobody on this forum has ever sat in a room during a "real" transfer negotiation by a football club so maybe this is exactly how it is sometimes

Can we say the same thing about SI people? I'm genuinely asking. Do they ever participate in a football player contract negotation? But even if they do, I don't really believe that negotations goes that way, after all it's called negotation right? I can't negotiate they ask X, they wont accept X - 0,1.

I can accept a player doing and amazing season and having offers from others club can DEMAND me more money and don't accept a negotation, but everyone, even backup players playing in the best team of the country?

Do you know what its the worst part? they will go on free, and accept a ridiculous low wage, even lower than they actually earn with me and at a lower reputation club.

[Richard76]

Transfer fee negotiations work so well in 2013 really can't understand why contract negotiations are soooooo much different.

[Argie86x]

So I fired up FM12, to see if negotations were so hard the past year:

Younger Nicolas Colazo earns and ask way less than FM13 (thats logical he is younger):

Anyway he ask for a 209% of increase, so thats nothing new, FM 12 and 13 works same way on this subject.

So I negotiate the contract and we reach this terms:

55k less than he asked, a 150% of wage increase, I manage to decrease his demanding a 71%, in FM 13? I can't negotiate 1% of his demands.

Agustin Orion:

He demands a 146% of increase. But he accept this offer:

775k, good increase on his wage, I manage to decrease his demanding on a 81%, on FM13? nothing, zero.

And finally:

Matias Caruzzo, ask for a tremendous wage, almost 3 times he current wage, he is NUTS!

But once again, we worked out:

Great! he earns 275k more than before, which is a good increase, but he won't be earning 1.4 million a year WTH was he thinking!?

On FM 13? He also ask for 1,4m and he won't accept 1,3 .

[Herbert Fandel]

Biggus, I respect 90% of what you say on these forums, but on this it is my honest opinion that you aren't entirely correct. I often see reductions of over 30%, even if it is (wrongly) assumed that moving the conditions around doesn't equate to a reduction in terms. I'm reluctant to call you wrong, and it may be that different leagues see players negotiate on different levels or whatever, but I refuse to believe a player of your experience genuinely can't get the AI to reduce its demands by 30% in any contract negotiation from its opening demand. You must be doing something wrong. I see it often

[Argie86x]

Biggus, I respect 90% of what you say on these forums, but on this it is my honest opinion that you aren't entirely correct. I often see reductions of over 30%, even if it is (wrongly) assumed that moving the conditions around doesn't equate to a reduction in terms. I'm reluctant to call you wrong, and it may be that different leagues see players negotiate on different levels or whatever, but I refuse to believe a player of your experience genuinely can't get the AI to reduce its demands by 30% in any contract negotiation from its opening demand. You must be doing something wrong. I see it often

Then why I can easily negotiate in FM 12 and previous and both parts end happy, but I can't do nothing on FM13. Are you saying that player earning 500k, asking for 1,4m and not accepting even 1,3m is ok? come on.

Can you explain what do you do in order to reduce the contracts demands? Because they want almost double wage and double appearance fee.

It would be great if you explain how do you do get a 30% reduce in any contract negotation.

[ada5tra]

I've found its relatively easy to get the players to reduce their demands, if you play hardball in return, and lock the wage to a more reasonable amount. This however, is just making the most of a bad situation, as it will still be grossly in excess of anything reasonable. Also you have to be somewhat careful and err slightly further toward their demands than you would like, or you run the risk of them just walking out. So its really no solution at all, but its the only way I have found to stop any relatively decent player you have, from wanting sometimes a 300% wage increase.

I use porto as an example, mainly because soon as the new patch came out, I decided to start a new game there. Their situation is slightly odd, because they have so many class players all on a pittance, so when it came around to wanting contract renewals in the second season, I wasn't surprised to see players wanting raises from 8k a week up to 40..... But its just not realistically negotiable. I managed to get some of them down to 30 or so, from an average of an 8k start, with hardcore demand widget locking and a high risk of them just walking out. I guess if you really wanted to push the boundary, you could do the old save beforehand and experiment where the limit is, but that would detract from the experience even further than the original problem in my opinion.

As I write this, Moutinho is wanting a new contract and keeps moaning, just checked his demands... he is currently paid 17.5k, his initial demand is 62k. I'm currently spending 560k a month on wages, and barely breaking even, sometimes losing cash on a monthly basis already. If I grant his request, along with the 5 other players who are complaining, I'd be in dire straits within a month.

I don't deny he's probably worth it, he's my best player, and valued at 21m right now, and no doubt a lot of top clubs would gladly buy him and put him on wages around there or higher. I am confident I could negotiate him down to 50k or so. Maybe less if I pushed it and found the line by keep restarting. I just feel there is something slightly off about the whole process in general.

[Guest]

I've found playing contract chicken tends to work, if other clubs are not interested in the player then I will not talk about a contract until very late in the season & in the case of older players this will see them be more reasonable in their demands.

If I approach a player too early then all I am saying is that I want you to stay which gives them the upper hand in any negotiations.

Just spotted the dates on your screenshots, what are you doing offering a contract extension 2 years before their current deal expires? The general accepted practice for older players is to wait until the final months of their current deal.

[BiggusD]

Biggus, I respect 90% of what you say on these forums, but on this it is my honest opinion that you aren't entirely correct. I often see reductions of over 30%, even if it is (wrongly) assumed that moving the conditions around doesn't equate to a reduction in terms. I'm reluctant to call you wrong, and it may be that different leagues see players negotiate on different levels or whatever, but I refuse to believe a player of your experience genuinely can't get the AI to reduce its demands by 30% in any contract negotiation from its opening demand. You must be doing something wrong. I see it often

Oh I manage to reduce the wages with more than 30%, but giving him bonuses and other fees to make up for a reduction in wages is not a reduced demand. The fact is that the second "offer" the agent makes is the final one, and it is usually not reduced from the original at all, and often with around 1% if it is. My point isn't that it is impossible to get players to accept lower wages, but that this feature is not a negotiation. The original demand remains the same, we just have to reach the target value with other means than wages if we are to keep the wage bill low.

I demand that the original demand can be reduced by at least 50% for weak agents and 10% or so for strong agents in a way that requires some skill for us users. The way it is now contract negotiation is among the least rewarding and most unrealistic features in the game.

[Domus Clamantium]

You have to bear in mind the reputation of your club and the league you're in (and possibly your wage budget and player value) because it is factored in, from what I have observed, to what a player will demand. An excellent example is when a League 1 (L1) side moves up to the Championship (CH). You will find that half the team wants an improved contract and demand double/triple their wage to match the salaries of the other players in other teams. My star centre back Mickael Nelson at Gillingham was on £80k in L1. He wanted 250k when I got promoted. I think the increase in player reputation increases their demands also, as you'll find with FM Scout their reputation increases from around 4000 in League 1 to above 5000 in the CH.

Conversely you find that a player who is released from a big club, let's say Lauri Dalla Valle from Fulham, demands less after their release because their reputation declines whilst they are Unattached, and their demands lessen the longer they are out of contract. Dalla Valle is on 180k p/a at Fulham but when he is released I was able to sign him and he agreed to £52k.

I believe if you that the bigger club you are, the more extreme wage increases that will be demanded.

BTW if you are looking to play a league 2 side, Mickael Nelson is available on a free at the start of the 2012 pre-season and will accept a wage of 80k p/a. When he signs he is said to be worth less than 100k but his value eventually shoots up to £3.3m once you reach the CH. He also makes a decent tutor.

[Argie86x]

You have to bear in mind the reputation of your club and the league you're in (and possibly your wage budget and player value) because it is factored in, from what I have observed, to what a player will demand. An excellent example is when a League 1 (L1) side moves up to the Championship (CH). You will find that half the team wants an improved contract and demand double/triple their wage to match the salaries of the other players in other teams. My star centre back Mickael Nelson at Gillingham was on £80k in L1. He wanted 250k when I got promoted. I think the increase in player reputation increases their demands also, as you'll find with FM Scout their reputation increases from around 4000 in League 1 to above 5000 in the CH.

Conversely you find that a player who is released from a big club, let's say Lauri Dalla Valle from Fulham, demands less after their release because their reputation declines whilst they are Unattached, and their demands lessen the longer they are out of contract. Dalla Valle is on 180k p/a at Fulham but when he is released I was able to sign him and he agreed to £52k.

I believe if you that the bigger club you are, the more extreme wage increases that will be demanded.

BTW if you are looking to play a league 2 side, Mickael Nelson is available on a free at the start of the 2012 pre-season and will accept a wage of 80k p/a. When he signs he is said to be worth less than 100k but his value eventually shoots up to £3.3m once you reach the CH. He also makes a decent tutor.

Big wages isn't the true problem, the impossibility of negotiation is.

On other hand, wages in Southamerica are waaaaaaaaaaay overpriced in the game

[Ryknow]

Argie, your percentage increases are off by 100% in most cases. Eg. Augustin Orion demanding $1.4m when on $850k is 64.7% increase not 164%. Not sure if that has any bearing on your opinion.

Anyways, I agree with your comment above. Demands aren't too bad, just look at what players demand IRL (Rooney, Welbeck), the fact is negotiations are too strict. And, when you fail it makes it worse as the agents will hate you, therefore bump up the demands.

Negotiations should be more flexible and last longer. In some cases I've only had three attempts at negotiating before they shut me off.

[eple]

If you offer them minimum fee release clauses they are likely to accept much less.

Looking at it that way makes it somewhat logical. The players could earn a lot more by moving to another club, but tying them down on a new contract will decrease their chance of moving anytime soon. A release clause will help in this aspect.

[Johnyfooty]

The wage system is not going to improve anytime soon unless it's completely revamped. It's not that it's not correctly tweaked, it's that it's bad altogether. The best possible state of something bad is still bad.

Players shouldn't ask wages based on the wage budget of the team. You know why you see players signing for 20K p/w after they rejected your 50K p/w offer? Because your 50K would be 30% of the max you can offer, whereas the 20K p/w is the absolute maximum that the AI team who got him can offer most of the time, thus it considers that the AI team gave "a better deal". That's just wrong in so many ways.

[mbchuz]

If I recall correctly, it was working ok until the first patch. Since then my contract "negotiations" are more like ransom... at gunpoint... with C4 strapped to my wife and kids! You get the idea.

I could *almost* say without hyperbole that there is literally no compromise. The room to move is so minimal that it's hardly worth acknowledging. The only way to reduce the salary is to offer extraordinary bonuses (and I mean extraordinary, not just a little bit generous), but this is effectively just paying them more money in different instalments so the point is moot.

[^Goose^]

I've taken to giving players what they want and then using FMRTE to reduce them to a more realistic level. You can call it cheating if you like but i'm so fed up of so many parts of FM13 that i couldn't care less.

[Emmeth]

I have tested the latest patch about wage and contract negotiations.

For sure players demands have been toned down but it seems they are still quite high, I had to sell 1 player so far cause I couldn't afford his contract renewal demands.

I will never use FMRTE, sometimes it is real that a team, not among the richest ones, has to sell its gems cause they want to play at higher standards and have a higher salary. It is up to me to find new gems, even if it is really very difficult.

I would have slightly toned down their contract requests further, anyway now it is slightly better than before the latest patch.

[Ackter]

Bugs forum, please.