The SI Sports Centre - DISCUSSION THREAD

[kewel72003]

I'm currently struggling to break down teams who set up defensively against me. While watching the matches it really is a case of teams parking the bus against me and due to me playing a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 space is already a little tight for me.

I would be prepared to change my formation to include wingers however I've always found that crosses are more effective when I can catch teams on the break, if a defence is already deep they seem to deal with my crosses easily.

So just wondering if anyone has advice on shouts they use to help unlock particularly defensive teams. I currently usually end up having lots of possesion (without specifically trying to) and many shots from bang on the edge of the area but usually under pressure and therefore off target. Any help would be much appreciated!

Kewel72003

[lam]

You can't see as much detail in 2d as you can 3d. In 3d you can see why someone didn't make the tackle or was forced off the ball etc.How come you think 2d is better?

LOL..... I'm in two minds now..... just watched 3D and you are right, you see player actions much better...... so I guess it's more of why something happened (or didn't) than thinking it should....

I liked 2D because you can see all the players all the time and understand their positioning, but I think the cinematics of individual players does give you a lot more information...

Regards

[lam]

Also..... did you know that you can 'ctrl' left click to highlight more than one player?!?!?!?!?!?!

Quality!

[Tafse]

Also..... did you know that you can 'ctrl' left click to highlight more than one player?!?!?!?!?!?!

Quality!

Huh... would you look at that! Nice find

[Tafse]

My eyes are bleeding from reading walls of text about the 4-2-3-1 formation (not the deep variant, the one with two MC, AMC and AMR/AML) and I have a hard time getting my team to defend as a unit. Is there any clever way of getting the wide AMR/AML players and the two MC players to track back without specific man marking?

[lam]

My eyes are bleeding from reading walls of text about the 4-2-3-1 formation (not the deep variant, the one with two MC, AMC and AMR/AML) and I have a hard time getting my team to defend as a unit. Is there any clever way of getting the wide AMR/AML players and the two MC players to track back without specific man marking?

High closing down and you could try the 'defensive winger' setting.

Out of curiosity, why wouldnt you want your AML/R's to man mark? I assume you want them tracking the opposition winger of fullback? If its the fullback then man marking works very well.

Regards

LAM

[lam]

Huh... would you look at that! Nice find

Yeah.... I love it, works fantastic for replays, so you can see who was moving where.

[Tafse]

Out of curiosity, why wouldnt you want your AML/R's to man mark? I assume you want them tracking the opposition winger of fullback? If its the fullback then man marking works very well.

LAM

Well, I'm old and stubborn I just prefer Zonal Marking all the time, but I suppose I have to accept a trade off here. Man marking the opposition winger or full back seem to work wonders.

[S2008]

For most FMs I have been a plug and play tactic merchant where its a part of the game that frustrates me incredibly but with the advent of FM12 Im finding to my despair that the AI is adapting (note I have not siad cracking) itself to play against my team and obviously I am not able to react to these changes having no real concept of what to do in said situations.

I have been trying to create a 4-2-3-1 off my own steam and to be fair its having a good deal of success when I play teams on my own ground. What I am finding very difficult to deal with is playing teams I am expected to beat (and ones that I am not- but thats not a real concern for me) on their own ground. Whenever I travel away from home my players seem to labour a lot more, the chances dry up and my defence starts looking suspect.

For the record my team is set up as follows

GK

Fullback (Support)

Centreback (Cover)

Centreback (Stopper)

Fullback (Support)

Mid Centre (Deep Lying Playmaker- Support)

Mid Centre (Ball Winning Midfielder- Defend)

Winger (Support)

Attacking Midfielder (Attack)

Winger (Support)

Poacher

So 4-2-3-1 with Wingers and 2 MCs- I have tried toying with the formation a bit by moving both MCs to DMCs for a bit more soldity in defending the gap between my Midfield and Defense and even just the one of them but it doesnt remedy the probelm properly.

For the record I have done a bit of reading on LlamaZAs How to Create Your Tactic and tried to adjust the settings appropriately but I still seem to get no joy away from home. Playing as Celtic in the SPL and my troubles away from home are hampering my title challenge.

I am also aware of the Team Report my scouts put together but I find it tough having to use my player pool to use every formation that is reccomended to me by may assistant, I would far rather have a settled system.

Teams that play 4-4-2 and 4-1-2-2-1 are particularly difficult for me to play against.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[lam]

Well, I'm old and stubborn I just prefer Zonal Marking all the time, but I suppose I have to accept a trade off here. Man marking the opposition winger or full back seem to work wonders.

Just be a little careful man marking wingers... they regularly change sides. Look for teams that have player positions listed as a AML/R for each player rather than an AML and an AMR. Fullbacks, however, rarely change. Man marking them makes a massive difference to narrow formations where the FB's provide the width.

And if you are up against some exceptional FB's then just make sure your winger does not have RFD often..... just pull them back a little.

[lam]

For most FMs I have been a plug and play tactic merchant where its a part of the game that frustrates me incredibly but with the advent of FM12 Im finding to my despair that the AI is adapting (note I have not siad cracking) itself to play against my team and obviously I am not able to react to these changes having no real concept of what to do in said situations.

I have been trying to create a 4-2-3-1 off my own steam and to be fair its having a good deal of success when I play teams on my own ground. What I am finding very difficult to deal with is playing teams I am expected to beat (and ones that I am not- but thats not a real concern for me) on their own ground. Whenever I travel away from home my players seem to labour a lot more, the chances dry up and my defence starts looking suspect.

For the record my team is set up as follows

GK

Fullback (Support)

Centreback (Cover)

Centreback (Stopper)

Fullback (Support)

Mid Centre (Deep Lying Playmaker- Support)

Mid Centre (Ball Winning Midfielder- Defend)

Winger (Support)

Attacking Midfielder (Attack)

Winger (Support)

Poacher

So 4-2-3-1 with Wingers and 2 MCs- I have tried toying with the formation a bit by moving both MCs to DMCs for a bit more soldity in defending the gap between my Midfield and Defense and even just the one of them but it doesnt remedy the probelm properly.

For the record I have done a bit of reading on LlamaZAs How to Create Your Tactic and tried to adjust the settings appropriately but I still seem to get no joy away from home. Playing as Celtic in the SPL and my troubles away from home are hampering my title challenge.

I am also aware of the Team Report my scouts put together but I find it tough having to use my player pool to use every formation that is reccomended to me by may assistant, I would far rather have a settled system.

Teams that play 4-4-2 and 4-1-2-2-1 are particularly difficult for me to play against.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

You might want your own thread if you want some detailed responses.

How do you play? Do you use the TC for changes or do you make manual ones? I ask because none of your players are automated, which means that if you go from contain to attack, your Fullbacks remain in teh support role. this can cause problems, UNLESS you are making manual changes.

Generally speaking teams will be a little more attacking when at home, so you are likely to find that they might be pressing you a little more, restricting space or they may have a higher defence line, restricting space. Couple that with a solo striker playing as a poacher means that you are kind of low on chances, which is what you said was the case.

If the above setup works well for you at home, you might want to try the following away from home......... switch the wingers to attack and switch the FC and AMC to support. This way your central part of the team will play a little deeper and the attack will come in from the wings and when they happens, i beleive they are more likely to make another pass to a player than a solo poacher would.

You might want to look at, depending on player quality, a complete forward support (needs to be good allround (think Drogba)) or a DLP support (or even attack) and a AMC/AP support in the AMC role.

Do you watch the games? If so, just look at what is different between your home and away games. Do your players have less time on the ball or more, are they being tackled harder or less (3D is good for this (Stand Cam)).

Regards

[S2008]

You might want your own thread if you want some detailed responses.

How do you play? Do you use the TC for changes or do you make manual ones? I ask because none of your players are automated, which means that if you go from contain to attack, your Fullbacks remain in teh support role. this can cause problems, UNLESS you are making manual changes.

Generally speaking teams will be a little more attacking when at home, so you are likely to find that they might be pressing you a little more, restricting space or they may have a higher defence line, restricting space. Couple that with a solo striker playing as a poacher means that you are kind of low on chances, which is what you said was the case.

If the above setup works well for you at home, you might want to try the following away from home......... switch the wingers to attack and switch the FC and AMC to support. This way your central part of the team will play a little deeper and the attack will come in from the wings and when they happens, i beleive they are more likely to make another pass to a player than a solo poacher would.

You might want to look at, depending on player quality, a complete forward support (needs to be good allround (think Drogba)) or a DLP support (or even attack) and a AMC/AP support in the AMC role.

Do you watch the games? If so, just look at what is different between your home and away games. Do your players have less time on the ball or more, are they being tackled harder or less (3D is good for this (Stand Cam)).

Regards

Thanks for the feedback- I sat and noticed watching the highlight reel that there were a lot of screamers from the edge of the box and goals scored from men being free in the box. I have also been losing a lot of possession in these games. What I decided to modify was the pressing game to put them under more pressure on the ball.

The result was that I was able to gain a greater share of possession and even though the other team had chances they were generally obscure and not as damaging as some that were created before. I also read that pressing is very important in a 4-2-3-1 formation on another thread so that may be what I need to do in other games

[aderow]

Also..... did you know that you can 'ctrl' left click to highlight more than one player?!?!?!?!?!?!

Quality!

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Never seen that one before

[Cleon]

I'm currently struggling to break down teams who set up defensively against me. While watching the matches it really is a case of teams parking the bus against me and due to me playing a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 space is already a little tight for me.

So you already know 1 issue, why can't you go a little wider in the hope of creating more space?

I would be prepared to change my formation to include wingers however I've always found that crosses are more effective when I can catch teams on the break, if a defence is already deep they seem to deal with my crosses easily.

So just wondering if anyone has advice on shouts they use to help unlock particularly defensive teams. I currently usually end up having lots of possesion (without specifically trying to) and many shots from bang on the edge of the area but usually under pressure and therefore off target. Any help would be much appreciated!

Did I not mention the shouts to use in the main thread? I thought I did.

[Cleon]

LOL..... I'm in two minds now..... just watched 3D and you are right, you see player actions much better...... so I guess it's more of why something happened (or didn't) than thinking it should....

I liked 2D because you can see all the players all the time and understand their positioning, but I think the cinematics of individual players does give you a lot more information...

Regards

You can on 3D with the right camera angle. But I prefer to see why something has happened rather that 'should' happen. You have more control and can see problems much easier. Took me quite a while though to feel comfy using 3d

[Cleon]

Also..... did you know that you can 'ctrl' left click to highlight more than one player?!?!?!?!?!?!

Quality!

Yes

[Cleon]

My eyes are bleeding from reading walls of text about the 4-2-3-1 formation (not the deep variant, the one with two MC, AMC and AMR/AML) and I have a hard time getting my team to defend as a unit. Is there any clever way of getting the wide AMR/AML players and the two MC players to track back without specific man marking?

Well if you need help from other people then you have to read walls of text, it's the whole point. The other option is to find the solution yourself.....

And no without specific man marking (or really, really low mentality) then no there is no other way.

[ShirazS]

Also..... did you know that you can 'ctrl' left click to highlight more than one player?!?!?!?!?!?!

Quality!

Did not know this! Loving it

[Cleon]

Still not got time to answer all questions but will do from tomorrow onwards.

Kinda pissed off though that people are stealing what I've wrote in the thread and passing it off as their own work on their sites.

[Karnage94]

Still not got time to answer all questions but will do from tomorrow onwards.

Kinda pissed off though that people are stealing what I've wrote in the thread and passing it off as their own work on their sites.

That really sucks. Your work is exceptional though, and thanks to it I've won the league title with Tenerife with a couple of games to spare and a dodgy linesman's offside call ultimately prevented me from getting into the semi's of the Champions League. So thank you

EDIT:- Final league table. Not quite as good as your Swansea league finish and with me having better players but I'm pleased with the season.

[aderow]

Glad to hear that karnage

[Gee_Simpson]

Glad to hear that karnage

This.

I managed to complete my reading of this whole thread a few days back (I was late to the party yeah by a few months ) and I have noticed how much progress you made tactically Karnage so well done mate

[S2008]

In terms of making adjustments to my side- what sort of things should I be looking out for?

I have heard that playing wider is best against teams that you are expected to beat to try and stretch their defence but other than that I am a bit clueless. I assume that the shout system is the key to making subtle changes to my system on the fly. I am not asking for people to tell me exactly what to do but I'd like to know what sort of things to look out for and how to modify my team in order to have the best possible chance. My team play 4-2-3-1 (with 2 MCs) and for the most part I am happy with the balance of my team. What I am struggling with though is coming up against lesser teams away from home who seem to dominate me.

[Cleon]

In terms of making adjustments to my side- what sort of things should I be looking out for?

I have heard that playing wider is best against teams that you are expected to beat to try and stretch their defence but other than that I am a bit clueless. I assume that the shout system is the key to making subtle changes to my system on the fly. I am not asking for people to tell me exactly what to do but I'd like to know what sort of things to look out for and how to modify my team in order to have the best possible chance. My team play 4-2-3-1 (with 2 MCs) and for the most part I am happy with the balance of my team. What I am struggling with though is coming up against lesser teams away from home who seem to dominate me.

If you've read the main thread then you'll see what the shouts do and how you can use them to your advantage. You'll also see my approach on what I look out for and how I set up to beat teams.

Do you watch games? This is the best tool you have available for spotting issues and seeing what's wrong with your side and you'll see why your dominated. Again the main thread talks about using the analysis tab

[mitjamvp]

I finished my season in premiership with City. Won the league cup (GD 21:5),Europa League (knockout stages: Roma 9:2, SLB 12:0, Leverkusen 6:0, Lyon 8:1, final 3:2 against Dortmund), and the league. Finished with 3 defeats in the league (2 of them being my last 2 away matches when i was already looking forward to leaving England.)

We did equal record amount of goals scored in the top english football league (Aston Villa 1930/31 - 128), and had the best defence in the league with 32 goals conceded. (we did not concede in 16 of 38 league matches)

I resigned immediately after the end of the season to join AC Milan who havent really been performing well last couple of seasons and will only compete in Europa League this season.

[S2008]

If you've read the main thread then you'll see what the shouts do and how you can use them to your advantage. You'll also see my approach on what I look out for and how I set up to beat teams.

Do you watch games? This is the best tool you have available for spotting issues and seeing what's wrong with your side and you'll see why your dominated. Again the main thread talks about using the analysis tab

Ive started to watch a few games and am noticing a few things- the problems Im having with moves breaking down in the attacking third and the amount of players around the penalty box with them obviously playing a deep defensive line. In Spain teams ironically seem to favour a 4-2-3-1 against me and creating chances has been at a premium.

I apologise for not having read the entirety of the thread itself at the time of posting- the section you wrote on shouts has given me some ideas for trying to break opposition teams down.

I do though still have one question- Are shouts the best way to modify the setup of the team during the game or is it necessary to change roles and duties to gain an advantage over the opposition. Is a settled, functional formation enough on its own with modifications through shouts or do certain games require more lasting changes?

[Cleon]

Ive started to watch a few games and am noticing a few things- the problems Im having with moves breaking down in the attacking third and the amount of players around the penalty box with them obviously playing a deep defensive line. In Spain teams ironically seem to favour a 4-2-3-1 against me and creating chances has been at a premium.

I apologise for not having read the entirety of the thread itself at the time of posting- the section you wrote on shouts has given me some ideas for trying to break opposition teams down.

I do though still have one question- Are shouts the best way to modify the setup of the team during the game or is it necessary to change roles and duties to gain an advantage over the opposition. Is a settled, functional formation enough on its own with modifications through shouts or do certain games require more lasting changes?

It's always worth reading the whole thread before posting asking for help

Well when the opposition are camped in their own half and on the penalty box, what is the position of your own players like? What do you do with the ball? Cross and hope for best? Do you have players making late runs? Is the strikers pulling defenders wide to create space?

If the opposition are using a 4-2-3-1 against you, that should be very easy to break down as the front 4 players of the AI won't track back of do any defensive duties as a rule. The same with the 2 MC's unless they use DMC's. You can play wide but play through the centre and stretch the midfield. You'll have acres of space serious.

I only ever change shouts unless I find some serious problems that are more long term, then I'd change the roles. But as a rule I set up like I explained in the main thread

No offence or anything but how much of the actual thread have you read? I ask because you keep asking things that I've already talked about numerous times, so you can't have read much of it, if any at all.

[LlamaZA]

It's always worth reading the whole thread before posting asking for help

It's the problem with long threads though - you should probably put a FAQs section or something at the beginning for people to read if you think you/someone has highlighted something interesting/useful.

I haven't even read this whole thread, and there's little chance I would in trying to find specific issues since there's just too much to get through. It's like the stupid questions thread, if the question doesn't come up in a search, its unlikely that someone will read through all the questions to check if their question has already been answered :|

To answer S2008:

It all depends on the situation. Some times you need to adjust your formation to counter specific threats (if you believe there's a rock-paper-scissors relationship between formations), in general though - if you're happy with your shape (and 4231 is a decent shape) then adjustments to strategy, roles, duties and a few shouts should be enough.

I am slightly disappointed with the way AMR/L works defensively in the game, forcing them back with Man Marking doesn't feel like the 'right' way for them to defend, and most players are now considered naturla AMR/L instead of MR/L which is another annoyance.

[Cleon]

It's the problem with long threads though - you should probably put a FAQs section or something at the beginning for people to read if you think you/someone has highlighted something interesting/useful.

The point is though the whole thread needs to be read to understand what I am discussing, or it wont make sense.

I haven't even read this whole thread, and there's little chance I would in trying to find specific issues since there's just too much to get through. It's like the stupid questions thread, if the question doesn't come up in a search, its unlikely that someone will read through all the questions to check if their question has already been answered :|

I understand that but it's the random people who post random questions that have nothing to do with the thread which rubs me up the wrong way. I don't mind helping people when I can, but they should also be courteous to read what's been written rather than be lazy and ask a question without even putting the ground work in and researching. If I've already wrote something and someone asks a question, then I'll tell them it's been discussed already and in most cases (when I'm not on my phone browsing the forums) I'll direct them to the specific area of the thread that I talked about it. But I won't repeat myself when it's in the main thread, I don't see the point.

I am slightly disappointed with the way AMR/L works defensively in the game, forcing them back with Man Marking doesn't feel like the 'right' way for them to defend, and most players are now considered naturla AMR/L instead of MR/L which is another annoyance.

I wish that was true in my save. I'm in 2019 in Brazil and everyone is a natural ML/MR, hardly any AML/AMR's about atm on my game

[LlamaZA]

I understand that but it's the random people who post random questions that have nothing to do with the thread which rubs me up the wrong way. I don't mind helping people when I can, but they should also be courteous to read what's been written rather than be lazy and ask a question without even putting the ground work in and researching. If I've already wrote something and someone asks a question, then I'll tell them it's been discussed already and in most cases (when I'm not on my phone browsing the forums) I'll direct them to the specific area of the thread that I talked about it. But I won't repeat myself when it's in the main thread, I don't see the point.

If its in the OP or 'Main thread' in your case, then there is definitely no excuse for not reading

[S2008]

It's always worth reading the whole thread before posting asking for help

Well when the opposition are camped in their own half and on the penalty box, what is the position of your own players like? What do you do with the ball? Cross and hope for best? Do you have players making late runs? Is the strikers pulling defenders wide to create space?

If the opposition are using a 4-2-3-1 against you, that should be very easy to break down as the front 4 players of the AI won't track back of do any defensive duties as a rule. The same with the 2 MC's unless they use DMC's. You can play wide but play through the centre and stretch the midfield. You'll have acres of space serious.

I only ever change shouts unless I find some serious problems that are more long term, then I'd change the roles. But as a rule I set up like I explained in the main thread

No offence or anything but how much of the actual thread have you read? I ask because you keep asking things that I've already talked about numerous times, so you can't have read much of it, if any at all.

The first time I posted on this thread I thought it was just a general discussion thread so thats my fault really but I have now read the entirety of the thread up for debate. I have tried to do a lot of reading but for me this has been a bit of a steep learning curve- a long way from the plug and play tactics on the other part of the forum. I have taken to watching whole matches to see where my problems lie and I am pleased that my defensive unit is working well. I suspect that there are fundemental problems with my overall system I have set up, particularly up front where I have tried to play with a front 4 of 2 Inside Forwards (both set to attack), a poacher up top and and an Attacking Mid set to support.

Ideally the plan was to have the AMC play through balls to the poacher and the IFs running in between the gaps in the central defence but what I am seeing with the ME is a lot play ending up breaking down as the box is overcrowded with players.

From my understanding of your thread I have to look at the formation they are playing and the appropriate shouts to draw them into the wider areas.

Micromanaging the game is something I have never done before- I didnt buy FM12 for the tactical side of it, I'm more into the player development side of it but with this version more than ever it seems to come as the whole package.

[Cleon]

The first time I posted on this thread I thought it was just a general discussion thread so thats my fault really but I have now read the entirety of the thread up for debate. I have tried to do a lot of reading but for me this has been a bit of a steep learning curve- a long way from the plug and play tactics on the other part of the forum.

No worries, I didn't mean to sound rude

Aye in this part of the forum it's where discussions happen. There is no such thing as plug and play either. If someone claims they only plug and play and never change anything then they more than likely use classic mode and exploit the defensive flaws of the AI. Something that is a lot harder to do via the TC.

I have taken to watching whole matches to see where my problems lie and I am pleased that my defensive unit is working well. I suspect that there are fundemental problems with my overall system I have set up, particularly up front where I have tried to play with a front 4 of 2 Inside Forwards (both set to attack), a poacher up top and and an Attacking Mid set to support.

Watching matches is deffo the way to go because if you don't how do you know what the issues are within your system?!

I've not had time to look at the set up you posted yet. But what issues are you having with the front 4 exactly?? I'm guessing the middle gets quite crowded with 2 inside forwards coming inside with the ball especially as you have a AMC too. I'm guessing up top you become quite narrow and as the opposition play defensive against you, you are finding it even more difficult to find space?

That's one of the reasons I only ever use 1 inside forward at a time. Plus I like to use the other one as a AP or standard winger. The amount of goals I get in a season from a ball played across the face of goal for the striker or inside forward to tap in is unreal. I'd say this accounted for a good 60% of my goals. Which isn't bad considering I score on average 3 goals a game. You need some kind of width against defensive formations as you need to drag the defence wide to create space for other players to run into.

Ideally the plan was to have the AMC play through balls to the poacher and the IFs running in between the gaps in the central defence but what I am seeing with the ME is a lot play ending up breaking down as the box is overcrowded with players.

Yups that's the knock on effect from having little width.

Micromanaging the game is something I have never done before- I didnt buy FM12 for the tactical side of it, I'm more into the player development side of it but with this version more than ever it seems to come as the whole package.

You honestly don't have to micromanage at all really. You just need to familiarise yourself with the shouts and know exactly what they do. Then create a few sets to use for certain scenarios. Then once you built a decent tactic you'll never need to change anything other than the shouts. It's worth putting the time in to create a decent tactic as you'll save so much time in the long run

[Karnage94]

You honestly don't have to micromanage at all really. You just need to familiarise yourself with the shouts and know exactly what they do. Then create a few sets to use for certain scenarios. Then once you built a decent tactic you'll never need to change anything other than the shouts. It's worth putting the time in to create a decent tactic as you'll save so much time in the long run

This is I feel a very important little nugget of advice. I've learned that as long as I have a solid base then I don't need to put so much effort into micromanaging my tactical setup. For the vast majority of my title winning season I didn't need to watch matches on full as everything seemed so balanced all the time. Defensively I was rarely stretched so I used the Exploit the middle/flanks shout in almost every game to give me an extra attacking threat (I recently learned that those shouts increase runs from deep which surprised me). It took me less time to get through my last season than any of the previous ones by a long way, just because my base tactic was so nicely balanced

[MilanoBaros]

Hey Cleon, did you end up making Youth training schedules? And have you altered your original schedules?

Regards

[!.m.!]

Cleon would you advise against manually overriding instructions to certain instructions such as changing the mentality of a CM because it would lessen the effectiveness of a shout? Or do you use both?

[Cleon]

Hey Cleon, did you end up making Youth training schedules? And have you altered your original schedules?

Regards

I created individual schedules for every single player, it's the only way to go imo if you want to develop the players the best you can.

Cleon would you advise against manually overriding instructions to certain instructions such as changing the mentality of a CM because it would lessen the effectiveness of a shout? Or do you use both?

I wouldn't change anything manually apart from long shots.

[MilanoBaros]

Is that the same with youth schedules as well? You tailored it to the individual?

[Cleon]

Is that the same with youth schedules as well? You tailored it to the individual?

Every single player yeah.

[aderow]

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1329/vsund1.png Last season at the stadium of light

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3826/vsund2.png Just now at the stadium of light

A lot has changed over the last year

Thanks to this thread, I've strengthened both my defense and my in match management skills.

I have become the special one

[achilles-the-victorious]

Seems like you are fouling them much less (better defensive starting positions?) and getting into more dangerous areas (runs or more direct passing?). Ultimately success comes from equal measures good tactics and good personnel. If you have good personnel already then effective tactics generally means getting the most out of your players.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1329/vsund1.png Last season at the stadium of light

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3826/vsund2.png Just now at the stadium of light

A lot has changed over the last year

Thanks to this thread, I've strengthened both my defense and my in match management skills.

I have become the special one

[S2008]

No worries, I didn't mean to sound rude

Aye in this part of the forum it's where discussions happen. There is no such thing as plug and play either. If someone claims they only plug and play and never change anything then they more than likely use classic mode and exploit the defensive flaws of the AI. Something that is a lot harder to do via the TC.

Watching matches is deffo the way to go because if you don't how do you know what the issues are within your system?!

I've not had time to look at the set up you posted yet. But what issues are you having with the front 4 exactly?? I'm guessing the middle gets quite crowded with 2 inside forwards coming inside with the ball especially as you have a AMC too. I'm guessing up top you become quite narrow and as the opposition play defensive against you, you are finding it even more difficult to find space?

That's one of the reasons I only ever use 1 inside forward at a time. Plus I like to use the other one as a AP or standard winger. The amount of goals I get in a season from a ball played across the face of goal for the striker or inside forward to tap in is unreal. I'd say this accounted for a good 60% of my goals. Which isn't bad considering I score on average 3 goals a game. You need some kind of width against defensive formations as you need to drag the defence wide to create space for other players to run into.

Yups that's the knock on effect from having little width.

You honestly don't have to micromanage at all really. You just need to familiarise yourself with the shouts and know exactly what they do. Then create a few sets to use for certain scenarios. Then once you built a decent tactic you'll never need to change anything other than the shouts. It's worth putting the time in to create a decent tactic as you'll save so much time in the long run

I am starting to understand a bit more about the shout system but obviously adding width to my play when all my wingers are cutting inside and taking shots wouldnt really be any good unless I had really aggressive fullbacks overlapping. the reason I was a bit reluctant to go with out and out wingers is the fact that I dont really have one with a decent crossing attribute, whilst they are very skillful dribblers of the ball (the players in question being Alexis Sanchez, Messi, Pedro and Neymar- who I felt would be an excellent IF).

I am going to modify my formation slightly to try and add a dimension of width to the team. This may be a stupid question but as far as the Advanced Playmaker role goes, I already have a DLP in one of my MC positions (the other BWM on Defend for the record) that Im happy with and I've never really understood the concept behind having an AP on the wing. I have an ideal candidate for this role in Andres Iniesta so I will experiment with this for a few matches to see how it fits in with the rest of my system.

Everything in the middle of the park does become very clogged and the opposition are always able to close down my players leaving them with very little time on the ball so hopefully with the aforementioned changes I can have a little bit more success (the flaws in my setup are ALWAYS exposed away from home so I guess that is trying to tell me something). Possession is rarely the problem and the genius of Lionel Messi was able to mask my problems for a little while with the most incredible goals but I always felt the rest of my team could function better.

I will continue to tinker with my team and see how it goes

I think I may also have made the mistake of messing around the advanced settings in the wizard for Player Instructions, perhpas I will leave these alone for now.

[aderow]

Seems like you are fouling them much less (better defensive starting positions?) and getting into more dangerous areas (runs or more direct passing?). Ultimately success comes from equal measures good tactics and good personnel. If you have good personnel already then effective tactics generally means getting the most out of your players.

Yeah basically I wanted to make sure that my defense was not as full of holes as it was before. My FBs are better positioned now, I'm able to handle counterattacks a lot better now, and with the tactical changes I make based on what I and my assistant see, I am maintaining momentum a lot better than I have been in the past.

As for my offense, my players are more familiar with each other and with the tactic so I expect them to only get better.

[Cleon]

aderow finally found success

[Reedy_1988]

Cleon, Using information from your sports centre thread and applying a few tweaks after to my tactical instructions having seeing Tomtuck's tactic, i have finally come up with a formation that is working brilliantly, my defense back 4 and DM are rock solid (I've conceded 4 in 14 & 19 in 31 in the league) and my attacking play is deadly more often than not, my aim was to build a slow, narrow possession tactic and then hit teams with the throughballs to my three attackers when the right opportunity presents itself

[zolwik]

The Project 2012 is great source on information about attributes, but it lacks section focused on tactical instructions. For example I have always wondered what counter-attacking tick-box exactly does. Manual says it makes team sit back and wait for opponent's mistake, but I read here and there that it is not accurate - it just temporary inclines team to play more direct under specific circumstances, like intercepting ball from defenders etc. What is the true effect of counter-attacking option?

[Cleon]

The Project 2012 is great source on information about attributes, but it lacks section focused on tactical instructions. For example I have always wondered what counter-attacking tick-box exactly does. Manual says it makes team sit back and wait for opponent's mistake, but I read here and there that it is not accurate - it just temporary inclines team to play more direct under specific circumstances, like intercepting ball from defenders etc. What is the true effect of counter-attacking option?

The thread is supposed to be about the attributes side of the game. The rest as been discussed at great lengths already, this thread is for the more advanced user who wants to learn how stuff works ina game sceneario and how the attributes influence them.

[zolwik]

Shouldn't they also know how tactical instructions EXACTLY work in a game scenario? I know they were discussed at great lengths, but it is spread in various places and based rather on feelings than knowledge of match engine.

[Cleon]

Shouldn't they also know how tactical instructions EXACTLY work in a game scenario? I know they were discussed at great lengths, but it is spread in various places and based rather on feelings than knowledge of match engine.

I've done that already and I don't like to create thread's disucssing things that already been done. Plus it's all common sense and between the online manual and watching the games, you can tell yourself what a certain setting does with ease.

I know it's not something you want to hear but I don't want to write about the simple things as it bores me and takes any enjoyment I have for the game out of it. In fact doing threads like this does the same to a certain extent, I always seem to be writing rather than playing.

Plus I honestly don't have the time now, I don't even have time to add to this thread yet either

[shirajzl]

Cleon, what's your input on narrow 4-1-2-1-2 formation? Do you think it would be possible to win PL with Swansea using that shape all the way (for example)?

You said you can make any formation work, but I noticed it's very difficult to compensate for the lack of width, especially against really good teams.

Sure, the central midfielders usually do help the fullbacks by going wide, but they are often either late or consequently stretched out which tears you apart with a single pass by the opponent.

Also, a fullback often goes for the winger in front of him and then a striker goes into the space behind the fullback and you can imagine what's happening next - a through ball for the striker, the fullback out of play, a centre-back desperately trying to cover, i.e. leaving his spot and thus opening your defence even more.

Problems can also arise going forward, if the opposition parks the bus and crowds the midfield, you're stuck. You can't really focus on the flanks because you don't have enough bodies there.

What are other people's experiences with this particular formation, especially at the top level? I found that it it's easier cover up its flaws and problematic areas in lower leagues since intelligent+pacey players are scarce there.

[achilles-the-victorious]

I don't think you would go all the way with a diamond midfield, unless your fullbacks, AMC and strikers were all top-notch. A lot depends on the AMC, and how he handles one-on-one marking from one of the opposition's top DMs, and the answer is usually: not very well (compared to having acres of space to play in). The fullbacks have to inevitably provide the width as teams WILL defend narrowly against you, and sit back. Top notch strikers help every formation

Cleon, what's your input on narrow 4-1-2-1-2 formation? Do you think it would be possible to win PL with Swansea using that shape all the way (for example)?

You said you can make any formation work, but I noticed it's very difficult to compensate for the lack of width, especially against really good teams.

Sure, the central midfielders usually do help the fullbacks by going wide, but they are often either late or consequently stretched out which tears you apart with a single pass by the opponent.

Also, a fullback often goes for the winger in front of him and then a striker goes into the space behind the fullback and you can imagine what's happening next - a through ball for the striker, the fullback out of play, a centre-back desperately trying to cover, i.e. leaving his spot and thus opening your defence even more.

Problems can also arise going forward, if the opposition parks the bus and crowds the midfield, you're stuck. You can't really focus on the flanks because you don't have enough bodies there.

What are other people's experiences with this particular formation, especially at the top level? I found that it it's easier cover up its flaws and problematic areas in lower leagues since intelligent+pacey players are scarce there.