When is Sports Interactive going to start producing there games on 64bit software.

[cynet]

The title is self explanatory, for those who don't get the jiff of my meaning is that if you have a computer or laptop with 12GB Ram and a 64bit operating system to recognize the Ram wouldn't it be something of a plus where Football manager could be more bigger with regards to leagues running and even a bigger size data base.

There will come a time when most PC's will be running 6GB minimum and I'm sure 64bit will be on them being sold by the major brands.

Be nice if Sports Interactive got more creative and made two version's, one being the 32 bit and the other of course the 64 bit.

[whilewolf]

When is Sports Interactive going to start producing their games on 64bit software.

I'm going to guess once that once the majority of people have computers running on a 64 bit operating system and it makes commercial sense to do so they will.

[Ackter]

The majority of FM users haven't even upgraded to widescreen monitors yet - 64 bit will be years away probably.

[cynet]

Shame, being a gaming enthusiast football manager running on a high spec would be awesome and has the potential to be so much bigger, let's hope it wont be too long.

[snootyjim]

On my machine, FM still gets nowhere near x86 limits so I doubt it's that much of a concern.

[x42bn6]

I'm going to guess once that once the majority of people have computers running on a 64 bit operating system and it makes commercial sense to do so they will.

The majority of FM users haven't even upgraded to widescreen monitors yet - 64 bit will be years away probably.

http://www.edbott.com/weblog/2011/06/the-rise-of-windows-7-and-64-bit-pcs/

The 64-bit revolution is here already! Most gamers are now on 64-bit OSes now.

On my machine, FM still gets nowhere near x86 limits so I doubt it's that much of a concern.

x86-64 processors and software have the potential to perform faster (since it supports wider addresses better). The limits generally aren't an issue - you need to do a lot to stress 4 GB anyway, 32-bit or 64-bit.

[cynet]

Not surprised by these findings as a majority of machines being sold now have more than 4GB of memory and the 64 bit OS is needed to show this, depends now how long it takes for games to go 64 bit.

[snootyjim]

x86-64 processors and software have the potential to perform faster (since it supports wider addresses better).

True, but I doubt it would be that huge a jump. I daresay a similar amount of time spent optimising code would bring about similar results.

[x42bn6]

The majority of FM users haven't even upgraded to widescreen monitors yet - 64 bit will be years away probably.

Also, I think this one is wrong too - this suggests that whilst although 1024x768 is still the most common resolution out there, the majority of resolutions are 16:9/16:10 - i.e. widescreen.

True, but I doubt it would be that huge a jump. I daresay a similar amount of time spent optimising code would bring about similar results.

Well, in theory, 64-bit offers twice the throughput of a 32-bit processor. For number-crunching-heavy operations (i.e. video encoding), you can indeed get close to such figures:

(Source: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-904-32-bit-vs-64-bit-benchmarks - also includes other benchmarks like Blender for Ubuntu 9.04, 32-bit vs. 64-bit)

Yes, of course, optimising your code can potentially bring about similar figures, but optimising a 32-bit program for a 64-bit program as well as optimising it further has the potential to send performance through the roof.

Football Manager is fairly number-intensive but nowhere near the likes of video encoding, of course - but I would guess that there would be a nice boost here anyway.

[whilewolf]

http://www.edbott.com/weblog/2011/06/the-rise-of-windows-7-and-64-bit-pcs/

The 64-bit revolution is here already! Most gamers are now on 64-bit OSes now.

x86-64 processors and software have the potential to perform faster (since it supports wider addresses better). The limits generally aren't an issue - you need to do a lot to stress 4 GB anyway, 32-bit or 64-bit.

52% of and I quote from your source "Now, this isn’t representative of the PC universe at large. Gamers tend to have more modern and more powerful hardware than most."

Still a couple of years off IMO when 80%+ of all windows users are using 64 bit.

[Bradley21]

Yeah that survey is meaningless, of course gamers have up to date machines. I play a load of game son my pc so i have a 64bit OS, along with 8GB of RAM and such likes, but most people who play FM do so on a laptop or at home casually on normal family desktops.

[x42bn6]

52% of and I quote from your source "Now, this isn’t representative of the PC universe at large. Gamers tend to have more modern and more powerful hardware than most."

Still a couple of years off IMO when 80%+ of all windows users are using 64 bit.

Yeah that survey is meaningless, of course gamers have up to date machines. I play a load of game son my pc so i have a 64bit OS, along with 8GB of RAM and such likes, but most people who play FM do so on a laptop or at home casually on normal family desktops.

Yes, but we are talking about Football Manager here, i.e. a game...

Also not sure about the bold bit - the plural of anecdote is not data. Football Manager's specifications are that of a gaming PC, albeit low-end.

Either way, uptake is going to increase quicker year-on-year - the last 32-bit processor made was the Intel Core (not Core 2) series, which was around 5 years ago. Given the average lifespan of a PC is around 4 years, it is only sensible that we will see a quicker uptake of 64-bit OSes... As it is nigh-on impossible to get a 32-bit processor any more (unless it's an Intel Atom, which can't quite play FM11 to a sensible degree yet, and probably isn't the target market anyway).

[SCIAG]

Yes, but we are talking about Football Manager here, i.e. a game...

FM players aren't generally your typical gamers, though, are they? There are those who complain about their computers not being able to run the 3D match engine correctly (admittedly less each year). All that burns is not wood.

It's inevitable that they eventually will make the jump, but I doubt that will be for another few years, until SI are comfortable that the vast majority of their userbase are on 64-bit systems.

[dannyxx20]

really, the average life span of a pc is 4 years!! mines 6 years old now, i knew it was an old git!! and i think its 64bit(i think) on a widescreen tv!!

[x42bn6]

FM players aren't generally your typical gamers, though, are they? There are those who complain about their computers not being able to run the 3D match engine correctly (admittedly less each year). All that burns is not wood.

It's inevitable that they eventually will make the jump, but I doubt that will be for another few years, until SI are comfortable that the vast majority of their userbase are on 64-bit systems.

I argue it's a driver thing and badly-written software. The graphics on FM2011 are nowhere near that of the Crysis demo, which its system requirements imply (Radeon 9800XT). I'd argue you should be able to run the match engine, 1024x768, on a GeForce 2 MX-400 - graphically, this is comparable to the original Battlefield 1942 on medium at around 25 FPS at the same resolution - I think this is fair.

Any onboard graphics should be able to render the match engine - it's not like onboard graphics are utter rubbish. You could play Counter-Strike: Source quite nicely on onboard Pentium 4 motherboards, after all!

Personally, I think they should be at least releasing 64-bit binaries that can take advantage of the additional address space, and make it backwards-compatible with 32-bit (which restricts the address space). I do think it's a little early to be thinking about releasing a full-blown 64-bit piece of software, but they should be thinking about it now.

And businesses are adopting Windows 7 64-bit as well. According to Gartner*, by 2014 75% of all business PCs will be running a 64-bit edition of Windows. Intel recently migrated to 64-bit Windows 7 citing the following on their deployment:

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2010/07/08/64-bit-momentum-surges-with-windows-7.aspx

Businesses are notoriously slow with hardware upgrades too (purchasing hardware, software licenses, migrating software...). If it's 75% by 2014 for businesses, it will be more than 75% for home users by 2014.

really, the average life span of a pc is 4 years!! mines 6 years old now, i knew it was an old git!! and i think its 64bit(i think) on a widescreen tv!!

The plural of anecdote is not data...

Motherboards in general last 4-5 years, as do hard-disks and video-cards. Some people upgrade their hardware along the way, somewhat extending lifespans. Computer-literate people (but not custom builders or overclockers) tend to be able to take care of their PCs better and are less likely to swap out a "broken" PC where the hardware is fine, but the system is corrupt or virus-infested to the core.

Also, hardware is being rolled out more and more aggressively nowadays - the Intel Core series stuck by for ages, whilst we are already nearly through Sandy Bridge (EE coming out Q4 this year), which revolutionised processors with its first iteration. So hardware is less likely to "break" before it is replaced nowadays too.

[AcidBurn]

Could be a stupid question and probably is but if FM worked on 64-bit would it still work on 32-bit as well or not?

[x42bn6]

Could be a stupid question and probably is but if FM worked on 64-bit would it still work on 32-bit as well or not?

It depends.

It's possible to distribute two binary files - one compiled for 32-bit and one for 64-bit, so the 64-bit one can take advantage of some of the x86-64 architecture features, but not all - so it might run marginally quicker (in practice, most applications run statistically equally, but quite a few can run much quicker. Some anomalies run slower). The 32-bit one will continue to work as normal and will even work on a 64-bit.

If a piece of software is written specifically for 64-bit in mind, it might not be backwards-compatible with 32-bit OSes and processors. But then again, that is unlikely for a game (whose target audience should be "as many people as possible") - this is for scientific calculations, device drivers and people who want to write software with extreme performance in mind.

Internet Explorer is an example - the most recent one has a 32-bit version and a 64-bit version.

Some other types of programs won't make the transition to Windows x64 seamlessly, either. Microsoft ships WinXP x64 with two versions of Internet Explorer, a 32-bit version and a 64-bit version. The 32-bit version is the OS default because nearly all ActiveX controls and the like are 32-bit code, and where would we be if we couldn't execute the full range of spyware available to us? Similarly, some system-level utilities and programs that do black magic with direct hardware access are likely to break in the 64-bit version of Windows. There will no doubt be teething pains and patches required for certain types of programs, despite Microsoft's best efforts.

Of course, many applications will be recompiled as native 64-bit programs as time passes, and those 64-bit binaries will only be compatible with 64-bit processors and operating systems. Those applications should benefit in several ways from making the transition.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/8131/1

(Note: That article is nearly 2 years old - driver support is miles better now.)

[sjm]

32-bit runs on 64-bit, but not vice versa, hence the 2 binaries solutions. The best case scenario is that a compiler switch is all that is needed to create both binaries.

[AcidBurn]

I read that 32-bit only uses 4GB Ram so does that mean FM11 isn't using all of the 6GB RAM on my PC?

[sjm]

If you only have a 32-bit OS, then definitely. What OS do you have?

This isn't FM-specific of course

btw the Windows 32-bit limit is 3GB, not 4.

however, you can still benefit from more memory assuming that FM isn't the only thing running on your 64-bit OS.

[AcidBurn]

I have 64-bit OS.

[jackripper]

FM in HD next??

[cynet]

I'm going to build my new system with the 64 bit operating system so I suppose it will be the way forward as Ram will be needed more in years to come, especially with video editing suite software.

[Ackter]

Also, I think this one is wrong too - this suggests that whilst although 1024x768 is still the most common resolution out there, the majority of resolutions are 16:9/16:10 - i.e. widescreen.

Not for FM - one of the findings they had from their data gathering option when it was introduced into FM was that the average FM PC is years behind most gaming PCs.

[IMT]

Hopefully soon, my new custom built PC will arrive in the next few weeks, it's 64 bit, installed with 64 bit Windows 7 Premium

[stinger061]

I have no data to support this but I firmly believe there is a large proportion of the FM playing community who play very few or no other PC games. FM can be run on a fairly low end PC and laptops and I can't see SI ever really wanting to move away from that.

[N^G]

some programs have 32 bit and 64 bit options, couldnt FM do the same?

[MrPompey]

If you look at overall 32bit v 64 bit stats you'll see that 64bit is in a very large minority. Look at the gaming world in general and you'll see few software houses producing 64 bit software, same goes for software in general.

I dont blame those who have invested more in high end set-ups wanting to be able to fully utilise them but alas guys you are still a minority. Additionally I would think writing software to utilise 64bit operating systems to take more time, cost more and therefore mean us punters pay more per unit. Facts of life of I'm afraid

[SCIAG]

Internet Explorer is an example - the most recent one has a 32-bit version and a 64-bit version.

Then it's settled, FM shouldn't have a 32-bit version and a 64-bit version

[MrPompey]

If you only have a 32-bit OS, then definitely. What OS do you have?

This isn't FM-specific of course

btw the Windows 32-bit limit is 3GB, not 4.

however, you can still benefit from more memory assuming that FM isn't the only thing running on your 64-bit OS.

I do get cheesed off when people make statements like this....ITS NOT TRUE. My PC actually is using 3.4gb of ram on 32 bit. It can actually be upto 3.5gb ram. It depends on how much memory is reserved for other installed devices, BIOS, etc.

[MrPompey]

how many people run software optimised to run on a 64bit operating system?

None / A few? Then most of you have fallen foul of PC World Salesman I expect and bought something you dont need or are hoping for something that wont appear for a while.

I'd be surprised if FM is optimised to run on a 64bit o/s in the next 4 years

[Ishu]

I haven't read the whole thread but FM supports upto 2GB RAM on 32bit OS and 4GB on a 64bit OS.

Now someone did a test a few months ago with FM11. He loaded every player/league in the game and went on an indefinite holiday. The RAM usage was under 2GB for the first 10 seasons.