Chelsea 2011/12 Thread

[bergkamp]

Chelsea you're 6th!!??!! A point today wasnt a great result. You're banking on winning the CL to qualify for next season I take it? Are you having a laugh?? Dire game of football from both teams.

[tcoleman1]

Or we could have played a full team today, still drawn/lost and then play a tired team against Barca? Yes we could have won but considering we made 8 changes we did pretty well.

[bridgekings]

our schedule is so exhaustive it's not possible to play full strength every game. would end up with absolutely nothing then.

our team today was better than people are making out anyway.

[Skoolblowsme]

I can't stand the fact how Torres always ends up being the scapegoat. He wasn't **** and he wasn't good today, he was decent given what our team was and the ineptitude of Sturridge and Kalou today. Oh, and Koscielny was ****ing brilliant today so it was never gonna be an easy game for him (again, awful service hindered what he could do)

Stop it. He was ****. Made no good runs, lost the ball every time, couldn't pass. Enough with poor service excuses.

[football_master_94]

Stop it. He was ****. Made no good runs, lost the ball every time, couldn't pass. Enough with poor service excuses.

No, you're clearly being very narrow minded here. Would you have been making the same comments had Kalou showed an ounce of composure when Szczesny came out like a mad man and got nothing and squares it for Torres for a tap in? No you wouldn't because the goal would evidently make everything fine and dandy. Bollocks that he lost the ball every time and couldn't pass - he was making the best crosses in out of any forward out there today.

[el sid]

Very, very average game. Sturridge was absolutely terrible, Malouda was very quiet, not sure why he was still playing in the hole after Mata came on. Torres was better defensively than offensively.

Positives were Bertrand who was immense, had Walcott and Gervinho in his pocket all game and Mikel's brilliant interception at the end

[Skoolblowsme]

No, you're clearly being very narrow minded here. Would you have been making the same comments had Kalou showed an ounce of composure when Szczesny came out like a mad man and got nothing and squares it for Torres for a tap in? No you wouldn't because the goal would evidently make everything fine and dandy. Bollocks that he lost the ball every time and couldn't pass - he was making the best crosses in out of any forward out there today.

No I'm not. He was ****. We got **** all for 50 million. Aguero at 30 seems like a bargain.

[bridgekings]

I for one am delighted that Torres can occasionally deliver a decent ball.

Solid value acquisition.

[bridgekings]

Why did you go Nico ?

[bergkamp]

I understand the changes, but you still have decent players on the pitch, players who don't have to have such a defensive attitude towards this game.

Incidentally Barca having a performance like they did at Stamford Bridge isn't so unbelievable, as well as Chelsea played. The Smaller pitch. The Chelsea fans. The well organised, seasoned team that Roberto put out, and the fact that Messi doesn't have a great record in England against you. These were all in your favour. The Nou Camp however is completely different game, so good luck with that.

[jmr]

Poor service is definitely a factor, it doesn't excuse his poor general play like the passing and what not but it obviously plays a part. I don't see anything wrong with a striker playing on the shoulder or "hiding", it's just that Torres isn't good at it anymore and it doesn't suit our play. Don't see the point in raging about Torres every week, he's going to be first choice next season whether we like it or not (and we don't) so may as well get on with it.

[jmr]

I understand the changes, but you still have decent players on the pitch, players who don't have to have such a defensive attitude towards this game.

Incidentally Barca having a performance like they did at Stamford Bridge isn't so unbelievable, as well as Chelsea played. The Smaller pitch. The Chelsea fans. The well organised, seasoned team that Roberto put out, and the fact that Messi doesn't have a great record in England against you. These were all in your favour. The Nou Camp however is completely different game, so good luck with that.

Sounds like you're crying because we didn't play to your strengths, chins up mate.

[bridgekings]

Poor service is definitely a factor, it doesn't excuse his poor general play like the passing and what not but it obviously plays a part. I don't see anything wrong with a striker playing on the shoulder or "hiding", it's just that Torres isn't good at it anymore and it doesn't suit our play. Don't see the point in raging about Torres every week, he's going to be first choice next season whether we like it or not (and we don't) so may as well get on with it.

How bloody depressing.

[football_master_94]

No I'm not. He was ****. We got **** all for 50 million. Aguero at 30 seems like a bargain.

Yes you are. No **** we overpaid, genius, and because of that you evidently view every game he plays differently.

Put it this way, if our beloved Drogba played like this, he'd get a pass and no comments would be made. It'd be 'Oh well, Sturridge is a greedy **** and Kalou was at his inconsistent worst today'

On another note - thought Essien was actually good today

Poor service is definitely a factor, it doesn't excuse his poor general play like the passing and what not but it obviously plays a part. I don't see anything wrong with a striker playing on the shoulder or "hiding", it's just that Torres isn't good at it anymore and it doesn't suit our play. Don't see the point in raging about Torres every week, he's going to be first choice next season whether we like it or not (and we don't) so may as well get on with it.

No point making such a valid point as it won't change the mentality of some.

[bridgekings]

Yeah Drogba has done something in a Chelsea shirt. About 150 of them. So he gets a bit of slack.

He's also not going to be our first choice striker next year.

[football_master_94]

Yeah Drogba has done something in a Chelsea shirt. About 150 of them. So he gets a bit of slack.

He's also not going to be our first choice striker next year.

Took him a while to get into it though didn't it? That point also means that if anything, it's more inexcusable for Drogba to underperform (especially given how good he was 18 months ago) because after all, being at this club for such a length of time would indicate he knows how good he can be which therefore means his mediocrity shouldn't be given slack.

[bridgekings]

Playing on the shoulder is different to 'hiding' btw.

[bridgekings]

Took him a while to get into it though didn't it? That point also means that if anything, it's more inexcusable for Drogba to underperform (especially given how good he was 18 months ago) because after all, being at this club for such a length of time would indicate he knows how good he can be which therefore means his mediocrity shouldn't be given slack.

<br><br>

Let's not even begin to compare the starts each had at the club.

One looked like a forward.

[bridgekings]

I've said my piece on Torres many times so i'm going to leave it here.

[shanyi]

Really looking forward to MotD tonight after all the plaudits Bertrand has been getting. As if any more reason were needed to love Robbie, he's our first manager probably since Ranieri to give an English 'youth' player a chance in a serious game, and it sounds like it was justified. Hope Ryan gets more chances, and it sets a precedent for players like Josh McEachran (who was always brilliant whenever I saw him in our Cup games), Nat Chalobah and John Swift (in the further future).

[Skoolblowsme]

Poor service is definitely a factor, it doesn't excuse his poor general play like the passing and what not but it obviously plays a part. I don't see anything wrong with a striker playing on the shoulder or "hiding", it's just that Torres isn't good at it anymore and it doesn't suit our play. Don't see the point in raging about Torres every week, he's going to be first choice next season whether we like it or not (and we don't) so may as well get on with it.

At one point Sturridge had beaten 2 defenders and Torres stood behind him on top of the box. Make a ****ing run for a cross!

Yes you are. No **** we overpaid, genius, and because of that you evidently view every game he plays differently.

Put it this way, if our beloved Drogba played like this, he'd get a pass and no comments would be made. It'd be 'Oh well, Sturridge is a greedy **** and Kalou was at his inconsistent worst today'

On another note - thought Essien was actually good today

No point making such a valid point as it won't change the mentality of some.

First of all, when you pay 50 million you don't say oh he has had **** service for a year and a half but he works hard and put in a couple good crosses. Drogba cost half that and has scored way more goals. I comment on performances as I see them so stop trying to act like everything Drogba does is poured over and Torres isn't. That's your obsession. Torres was ****, end of story. It's depressing when you waste 50 million

[football_master_94]

<br><br>

Let's not even begin to compare the starts each had at the club.

One looked like a forward.

I'm not .. I'm just saying slack was given. I think from the minute we got him, people here really didn't want him.

[jmr]

Can't believe people want Di Matteo as manager, as a coach (along with Newton) sure, but manager? No thanks. Wouldn't trust him signing players, wouldn't trust him when he actually has to change something or get rid of someone, wouldn't even trust him tactically once it has to change from 4-2-3-1. He's done well since he's come in since he hasn't actually had to really do anything apart from go back to the old ways before AVB.

Old post this, but I'm coming around to RDM. I do think he started off with some dodgy team selections but he's proven over the last few games that he knows how to pick a team. His tactics have been spot on so far. I'd still be worried about his transfers but I believe we have other people for that? So for now I'd say I wouldn't mind him being manager next season but it should be on one of those rolling 12 month contracts just because he's not completely proven yet. I also think there's a good chance of this happening since there really isn't a standout candidate who will be available (unless Mourinho really does quit Madrid) and whilst I think Lambert/Rogers are very slightly better managers than RDM I don't think they'd be better for Chelsea. Plus RDM is always classy in interviews and stuff and I do like that.

[jmr]

At one point Sturridge had beaten 2 defenders and Torres stood behind him on top of the box. Make a ****ing run for a cross!

If this is the one late in the 2nd half then he did make a run into the 6 yard box waiting for the cross, it didn't come and about 3 defenders got between Sturridge and Torres in the mean time so Torres made a run towards the edge of the box so that he'd be open for the pass. His mistake was assuming Sturridge was going to pass it in the first place.

[el sid]

Old post this, but I'm coming around to RDM. I do think he started off with some dodgy team selections but he's proven over the last few games that he knows how to pick a team. His tactics have been spot on so far. I'd still be worried about his transfers but I believe we have other people for that? So for now I'd say I wouldn't mind him being manager next season but it should be on one of those rolling 12 month contracts just because he's not completely proven yet. I also think there's a good chance of this happening since there really isn't a standout candidate who will be available (unless Mourinho really does quit Madrid) and whilst I think Lambert/Rogers are very slightly better managers than RDM I don't think they'd be better for Chelsea. Plus RDM is always classy in interviews and stuff and I do like that.

[football_master_94]

At one point Sturridge had beaten 2 defenders and Torres stood behind him on top of the box. Make a ****ing run for a cross!

First of all, when you pay 50 million you don't say oh he has had **** service for a year and a half but he works hard and put in a couple good crosses. Drogba cost half that and has scored way more goals. I comment on performances as I see them so stop trying to act like everything Drogba does is poured over and Torres isn't. That's your obsession. Torres was ****, end of story. It's depressing when you waste 50 million

You can't compare the two in terms of the situations entering the club - Mourinho bought Drogba and modelled our game and system around him and ofc he's gonna score goals. Ancelotti didn't want Torres, evidently AVB didn't know how to use him (ie. his tough love approach wasn't reaping the rewards). I am not saying that he's worth the 50M or been value for money etc etc but it's easy to point the finger at one player without taking a broader perspective.

EDIT - What jmr said in both posts. Spot on.

[jaybob]

If someone were to offer £20m for Torres in the off season, I'd be more than happy for the club to sell. Unfortunately I don't think anyone else in the world thinks he's worth that based on the last 2 years, and I think the club would turn it down considering it to be admitting they cocked up by signing him in the first place.

[bergkamp]

All this stuff about Torres and Drogba etc. Face it Chelsea, you're all about power, organisation and strength. Lampard scores your goals from midfield. Drogba does what he does and spearheads the team, he's a great player by the way, and Terry leads the defence. Thats how you are successful. Terry, Lampard, Drogba, until they go there will always be a certain ethos around this team instilled fundamentally by Mourinho.

Abramovich wants to see Juan Mata and Torres leading this team in an attractive way, but he's along way from seeing his dream. (cough) Potential CL winning opportunity aside (cough)

[Robokid87]

Nic Anelka got his first win as a coach today

https://twitter.com/#!/anelkaofficiel/status/193711816361250816/photo/1/large

[jmr]

haha, bring him back as a player/coach. Then get Zola and Wilkins back and we have a dream team coaching staff

[tcoleman1]

All this stuff about Torres and Drogba etc. Face it Chelsea, you're all about power, organisation and strength. Lampard scores your goals from midfield. Drogba does what he does and spearheads the team, he's a great player by the way, and Terry leads the defence. Thats how you are successful. Terry, Lampard, Drogba, until they go there will always be a certain ethos around this team instilled fundamentally by Mourinho.

Abramovich wants to see Juan Mata and Torres leading this team in an attractive way, but he's along way from seeing his dream. (cough) Potential CL winning opportunity aside (cough)

That may have been the case for the last few years but the team is changing. Clearly he wanted players like Mata and Torres to become the new attacking force and Mata at least will be a big part of our future, or should be anyway. Imo if we did sell Torres, which even I have to admit on his current form is the best option, who would we look at replacing him? Falcao is a proven goalscorer in both Spain, Portugal and europe (mainly Europa) and would score goals. Problem there is I can't see Falcao being swapped straight for Torres and it would be a bit of a joke to have to pay for him as well as maybe swap Torres. Higuain would be a great option as well if a good price could be agreed.

We need another injection of creativity other than Mata as well. The defence has shown in the last few games that they can cope so they should be fine. I would like to see us use players like McEachran, Lukaku and De Bruyne a bit in pre-season to see where they could fit in and then have the balls to play them. We can't be having players like Sinclair, Borini, Tore etc. falling through the net again. I do hope that we maybe take some calculated risks with some players as well. I'm talking taking a punt on players like Demba Ba and even Clint Dempsey (good rotation player) instead of risking 20-30million on someone who could be great but isn't proven in the league.

[ubos]

Why are people raging about Torres? Not good today but definitely not the worst player on the pitch. Was way more frustrated with Kalou.

[football_master_94]

That may have been the case for the last few years but the team is changing. Clearly he wanted players like Mata and Torres to become the new attacking force and Mata at least will be a big part of our future, or should be anyway. Imo if we did sell Torres, which even I have to admit on his current form is the best option, who would we look at replacing him? Falcao is a proven goalscorer in both Spain, Portugal and europe (mainly Europa) and would score goals. Problem there is I can't see Falcao being swapped straight for Torres and it would be a bit of a joke to have to pay for him as well as maybe swap Torres. Higuain would be a great option as well if a good price could be agreed.

We need another injection of creativity other than Mata as well. The defence has shown in the last few games that they can cope so they should be fine. I would like to see us use players like McEachran, Lukaku and De Bruyne a bit in pre-season to see where they could fit in and then have the balls to play them. We can't be having players like Sinclair, Borini, Tore etc. falling through the net again. I do hope that we maybe take some calculated risks with some players as well. I'm talking taking a punt on players like Demba Ba and even Clint Dempsey (good rotation player) instead of risking 20-30million on someone who could be great but isn't proven in the league.

As good as Ba and Dempsey are, if the likes of Lavezzi, Hazard and Modrić are viable opitions - I honestly don't mind forking out the extra millions to buy them because they're on another level and are still young (Modrić relatively) and are steps towards the future (ie. to have the lineup me and jmr discussed on the previous page for a solid era of 5 years or so)

[mag man]

Why are people raging about Torres? Not good today but definitely not the worst player on the pitch. Was way more frustrated with Kalou.

Just depressed with the fact he is going to lead our front line next year Drogba hasn't been at his best this season but has still put in some very big performances when we have needed them, plus he is old and probably gone in the summer.

Kalou was poor today.

[Philip Rolfe]

Face it Chelsea, you're all about power, organisation and strength.

Am I meant to feel bad about that?

[Icelander83]

Am I meant to feel bad about that?

Just a rich mans Stoke?

[el sid]

Just a rich mans Stoke?

We're **** at long throws

[Skoolblowsme]

If this is the one late in the 2nd half then he did make a run into the 6 yard box waiting for the cross, it didn't come and about 3 defenders got between Sturridge and Torres in the mean time so Torres made a run towards the edge of the box so that he'd be open for the pass. His mistake was assuming Sturridge was going to pass it in the first place.

It's called recycling runs. You make a run for the cross, it doesn't come, you go back, recycle your run, make a different run into the box. Textbook stuff.

Anyway, on a positive note, we gained a point on Tottenham after they lost, and we have a game against Newcastle that will be the deciding fixture. We beat QPR and Newcastle at home we are basically right there again.

[Icelander83]

We're **** at long throws

Actually thought you looked pretty decent at them against Barca but then anyone should be able to trouble them with high balls Didn't know Ivanovic had such a huge throw on him

[jmr]

It's called recycling runs. You make a run for the cross, it doesn't come, you go back, recycle your run, make a different run into the box. Textbook stuff.

Sturridge was never going to cross it the first time Torres made a run, he definitely wasn't going to cross it when there were 3 defenders blocking any possible cross. I don't care if you want to bash Torres, but that incident seems to be stretching it, surely you can find something better to bash him with? Christ knows there were enough mistakes in his game today.

[Skoolblowsme]

Sturridge was never going to cross it the first time Torres made a run, he definitely wasn't going to cross it when there were 3 defenders blocking any possible cross. I don't care if you want to bash Torres, but that incident seems to be stretching it, surely you can find something better to bash him with? Christ knows there were enough mistakes in his game today.

So now you don't make runs because you assume someone isn't going to cross it? If Torres recycles his run Sturridge looks up and has something to aim up at. But since Torres got scared and just stood behind him Sturridge was made to look like an idiot because he had zero options. I just don't get how you guys make so many excuses for Torres. You always speak about poor service, but look at the tripe Yakubu has to feed off and he has 16 goals in the Premier League. You wanna talk about **** service?

[el sid]

Lets be fair, Sturridge was never going to pass it to him

[kpain16]

Am I meant to feel bad about that?

Haha, I had a laugh at his statement. I would be perfectly pleased if Chelsea had a team of most horrible ***** around playing ugliest football ever if it won tropheys. Who gives a damn.

[football_master_94]

So now you don't make runs because you assume someone isn't going to cross it? If Torres recycles his run Sturridge looks up and has something to aim up at. But since Torres got scared and just stood behind him Sturridge was made to look like an idiot because he had zero options. I just don't get how you guys make so many excuses for Torres. You always speak about poor service, but look at the tripe Yakubu has to feed off and he has 16 goals in the Premier League. You wanna talk about **** service?

But you're not looking at that chance objectively are you? You're taking the situation as if Sturridge is well known for his willingness to pass whereas I'm sure you've watched enough Chelsea games this season to know that he's a greedy bellend who's 1st thing on his mind is to shoot whether he's in a goal scoring opportunity or if there's a very tight angle. You're clutching at straws with your argument, yes you can go on about Torres is **** etc but from the game if you picked up on that passage of play then you're definitely trying to start an argument.

'Made Sturridge look like an idiot' - no, my friend, see Sturridge has only himself to blame for looking like an idiot for that chance. His desire to dribble round the whole defense and have his head down and have tunnel vision is what made himself look like a goon, not Torres' fault at all.

[jmr]

All this "recycling runs" is just so football coaching manual I can't take it serious. Just watch the game, watch the move, look at the context. You can bash Torres for a million things today so why use that situation where he really wasn't at fault?

[football_master_94]

Oh and Bertrand for the Euros You know it makes sense Psycho

[Robokid87]

Haha, I had a laugh at his statement. I would be perfectly pleased if Chelsea had a team of most horrible ***** around playing ugliest football ever if it won tropheys. Who gives a damn.

I think I'd actually enjoy that more than playing Barcelona style football, just have essentially 11 bullies destroying teams. The whole 'no-one likes us and we don't care' mentality under Mourinho was pretty funny.

[Skoolblowsme]

But you're not looking at that chance objectively are you? You're taking the situation as if Sturridge is well known for his willingness to pass whereas I'm sure you've watched enough Chelsea games this season to know that he's a greedy bellend who's 1st thing on his mind is to shoot whether he's in a goal scoring opportunity or if there's a very tight angle. You're clutching at straws with your argument, yes you can go on about Torres is **** etc but from the game if you picked up on that passage of play then you're definitely trying to start an argument.

'Made Sturridge look like an idiot' - no, my friend, see Sturridge has only himself to blame for looking like an idiot for that chance. His desire to dribble round the whole defense and have his head down and have tunnel vision is what made himself look like a goon, not Torres' fault at all.

All this "recycling runs" is just so football coaching manual I can't take it serious. Just watch the game, watch the move, look at the context. You can bash Torres for a million things today so why use that situation where he really wasn't at fault?

I'm not going to continue to argue with people who are defending a 50 million pound buffoon. Torres made **** runs and hid behind defenders all game.

And jmr, if you've ever played football in your life you'd know that is what you're supposed to do as a forward.

You guys can continue to defend him all you want and clutch at straws about what he is doing right. The fact remains we paid 50 million for ****.

I sincerely hope he makes me eat my words for the benefit of the club though

[football_master_94]

Even with the best runs in the world he was surrounded by 1 - Kalou who couldn't pass today and 2 - Sturridge who didn't want to pass. It's hardly defending when the point you picked out is incredibly harsh to blame it on Torres when it was clearly Sturridge's fault - I can't believe you were actually fooled that Sturridge might pass.

[bridgekings]

excuses excuses excuses.

not good enough. lets move on.