FM needs an overhaul

[Smurf]

There is easy knowledge to find the best players in the world.

Go to Player Search and sort all players by their value or view who has recently been voted in World Team of the year and their you have it.

Value denotes the player with the highest repuatation playing for a high-rep team.

Neymar is valued at 6m for Santos at the start of the game. Yet I can get him to a value of 32m in about 2 seasons playing in England.

Value does not tell you who the best player in the game is.

Seriously, just look at the top valued players, the league's top goalscorers, the Champions League Top Goalscorers, the World Cup top goals scorers, the top average rated players (ie the multitude of in game stats available to you) & you will know the best players in the game, it's not hard & the game isn't just going to tell you

As for potential stars they all have a media description, if you spend 5 minutes here & there searching they're found easily. AI teams don't clock onto all the potential stars that the game generates straight away, it will seem that way if you're flying through the game

Top Value, Top Goalscorer, Champs Leage Goalscorers, World Cup goal scorers, top average rated payers, don't tell me who the best Goalkeeper is playing in Npower League 1 where I'm strugging to survive promotion and need to stop more goals going in?

None of that info is any good if you're a lower rep team.

You cannot go into NPower League 1 and tell me off the top of your head who the best goalkeeper is in that league. Yet I bet every manager that is managing in League 1 knows who the team is with the best goalkeeper. Without a shadow of a doubt.

They wouldn't even need a scout report - it's common knowledge.

[milnerpoint]

Value denotes the player with the highest repuatation playing for a high-rep team.

Neymar is valued at 6m for Santos at the start of the game. Yet I can get him to a value of 32m in about 2 seasons playing in England.

Value does not tell you who the best player in the game is.

Top Value, Top Goalscorer, Champs Leage Goalscorers, World Cup goal scorers, top average rated payers, don't tell me who the best Goalkeeper is playing in Npower League 1 where I'm strugging to survive promotion and need to stop more goals going in?

None of that info is any good if you're a lower rep team.

You cannot go into NPower League 1 and tell me off the top of your head who the best goalkeeper is in that league. Yet I bet every manager that is managing in League 1 knows who the team is with the best goalkeeper. Without a shadow of a doubt.

They wouldn't even need a scout report - it's common knowledge.

ok lets test your common knowlege then, who is the best keeper in league 1 right now, infact who is the best keeper out of each of the English divisions, then tell me who is the best keeper in Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Scotland.

[Smurf]

ok lets test your common knowlege then, who is the best keeper in league 1 right now, infact who is the best keeper out of each of the English divisions, then tell me who is the best keeper in Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Scotland.

Leauge 1 Youth Goalkeepers -

Alex Smithies

Joe Collister

League 1 Best Goalkeeper:

probably Jimmy Walker

League 1 Best players

Morgan Schneiderlin

Jermaine Johnson

Matthew Richards

Prem Leauge

Fabregas

Gerrard

Nasri

Bale

Tevez

Spain

Anyone from Barca 1st Squad and Real First Squad

Sergio Aguero

Forlan

Llorente

Godin

Italy

Buffon

Melo

Cesar

Chiellini

Milito

Serie B

Caccia

Correlli

[Smurf]

I'll come back to this.

I don't need scouts to put this list of players together. Back on at 8 or so.

[Smurf]

First and foremost - this is a game meant to simulate a managers experience.

I wouldn't be a manager of a top team or a team in the same league if the Board didn't have confidence in my ability. And your ability should come with common knowledge of the league and the footballing world you live in within the game.

I'm not saying you should know every top player in the world - but at least a good portion. Even if it is outside the realm of your possibility to sign them.

But these players shouldn't be hidden from you until you scout them. You should have a reasonable knowledge of the players around you and in other teams. At least the scouts should be automatically filling these in for you.

I just have such a pain leading the scouts around when I feel it could be more automated and a lot more comprehensive in regards to way the reports are delivered - rather than a star rating, give us some of the vital stats that relate to their position.

[Johnny Ace]

Top Value, Top Goalscorer, Champs Leage Goalscorers, World Cup goal scorers, top average rated payers, don't tell me who the best Goalkeeper is playing in Npower League 1 where I'm strugging to survive promotion and need to stop more goals going in?

None of that info is any good if you're a lower rep team.

You cannot go into NPower League 1 and tell me off the top of your head who the best goalkeeper is in that league. Yet I bet every manager that is managing in League 1 knows who the team is with the best goalkeeper. Without a shadow of a doubt.

They wouldn't even need a scout report - it's common knowledge.

I don't follow League 1 in RL so wouldn't have a clue so I wouldn't expect to have a clue in the game unless I spent a bit of looking around. To go about it I would:

Look at the stats available (Teams of the week/ year, clean sheet stats, MOM awards etc) for League 1 & the Championship & choose a few players to scout so I know a) if they're any good or b) likely to be interesting in joining my team

Or create a search filter using my my 'keepers, then increase the attributes & scout the players that my Ass Man filters out

[Johnny Ace]

But these players shouldn't be hidden from you until you scout them. You should have a reasonable knowledge of the players around you and in other teams. At least the scouts should be automatically filling these in for you.

I just have such a pain leading the scouts around when I feel it could be more automated and a lot more comprehensive in regards to way the reports are delivered - rather than a star rating, give us some of the vital stats that relate to their position.

Dude, you're making it sound a huge chore . No players are hidden from you & you have a comprehensive player search not available to managers in RL & a huge amount of stats to help you find the player you want plus you can get an opinion of any player you want from a team of scouts. I enjoy that aspect of the game & like to immense myself in the FM World rather than just buzz through seasons & really don't have a problem knowing the top players at whatever level I'm managing at or finding suitable youth prospects because everything is a few clicks away ie loads simpler than it is in real life. Teams in real life work their balls off to find players so I don't expect the game to just tell me who to sign

[jozza800]

They wouldn't even need a scout report - it's common knowledge.

Ha ha, It's just common knowledge? Do you realise how daft that sounds. Again where does this knowledge come from?

You dont need scouts to 'acquire' this information either. As has previously been mentioned there are many resources/methods to get this information in game.

[x42bn6]

The point regarding 'if we were dropped into 2050 we wouldnt know any of the players'. This is true in real life and FM.

If we were suddenly transported to 2050 we wouldnt know any of the players.

Nobody is suggested we are suddenly teleported.

In 2050, I will know the "Neymars" of this world, even though I am just an Average Joe, not even a football manager, nor a scout.

We go through our saved game and gradually-reach 2050. The perfect abstraction of the game suggests we will go through the same player-learning process as we have done this year in 2011 and in the past. We know today's "Neymars" - we will know 2050's "Neymars".

[x42bn6]

Ha ha, It's just common knowledge? Do you realise how daft that sounds. Again where does this knowledge come from?

You dont need scouts to 'acquire' this information either. As has previously been mentioned there are many resources/methods to get this information in game.

It comes from things like media reports, blogs, social media, YouTube, news, word-of-mouth, and so on.

Nobody is denying it is possible - just that we lack this "innate" information and the methods of acquiring it are tedious and unrealistic.

[RBKalle]

Just to point that out...

Subscriptions to a league/club will likely just fill my inbox with "too late, pal!" news like "ChievoVerona signed 18 years old American international John Whatshisname from Columbus Crew for a fee of 750k"...

Which is a useless news for two different reasons: one, as odds are I had never heard of this guy before; two, as knowing of him NOW he has signed for a decent club in a top league makes him sort of irrelevant anyway (if I'm managing a lower league club, he's out of reach already, if I'm managing a top club he's probably not good enough)

Frankly suggesting "just give FM world the same amount of time and attention you give to real-life football" is so wrong I can't even bring myself to comment on it...

Also, our "upper hand on AI managers" at the start of the game is just apparent, and short-lived, as AI staff do "know" all the players anyway. We can just sign them ASAP before the game kickstarts the transfers window.

But in a couple of seasons we'll be on the receiving end of this... The AI will still know every single player in the game, while we'll just have to rely on thousands of half-assed scouting reports [where's the "minimum stars" criterium for scouting???] just to have a vague idea of our domestic league...

Not to mention the fact often even high-rated and expensive newgens are quite crap, or just unbalanced... Should I sign all the 3*, 500k-1M youngsters my scouts recommend me, the club would end up broke AND relegated!

What's so wrong with a "General Rating" for well-known players? Basically, just as I can see John Doe's attributes, why can't I get a C- rating for him without having to open his profile and looking at his attributes, mentality, morale and stats?

People have been bitching about attributes being all to exact and available, so why not going for the same system EHM (Eastside Hockey Manager) used for draftees and foreign players?

Ever since CM '93 looking around the game for bargains & potential stars is one of my favourite parts of the game & I'm sure I'm not the only one. Signing a 17 year old from Yeovil for 50k & developing (or flopping) his career over a decade or picking up a Chinese striker for £100,000 to watch him bag 25 goals a season is a big part of my FM addiction. Do you not enjoy it?

I don't enjoy it if it takes me hours of tedious report-searching... actually it's the deserved reward, and definitely a small prize for a lot of wasted gametime (and of life)

Finding out hidden gems is great, but as long as it's a funny and shortish treasure hunt... what FM currently forces us to do is more like a menial exercise in data analysis.

[Johnny Ace]

Frankly suggesting "just give FM world the same amount of time and attention you give to real-life football" is so wrong I can't even bring myself to comment on it...

Did anyone say that? Seems a bit Statto to me & totally unnecessary

I don't enjoy it if it takes me hours of tedious report-searching... actually it's the deserved reward, and definitely a small prize for a lot of wasted gametime (and of life)

Finding out hidden gems is great, but as long as it's a funny and shortish treasure hunt... what FM currently forces us to do is more like a menial exercise in data analysis.

Doesn't take hours really, 5 -10 minutes here & there, once a month maybe & more during the summer is plenty enough for me & hardly a ball ache. I see keeping tabs on players as a big part of the game, like i said earlier I enjoy it, if I found it tedious I wouldn't bother playing. Must say I don't find it funny

Surely if we had a general rating for every player, it would be far too easy like Premier Manager Scout's star ratings are fine

[CGE97]

so you want it to be like this ??

Dear Mr Manager, Player Name will be a star in 3 years time, he is a 19 YO Spanish striker who is almost as good as Aguero.

that would take all the effort out of scouting and discovering, minimal effort = minimal fun

[x42bn6]

so you want it to be like this ??

Dear Mr Manager, Player Name will be a star in 3 years time, he is a 19 YO Spanish striker who is almost as good as Aguero.

that would take all the effort out of scouting and discovering, minimal effort = minimal fun

Please read the thread properly, thanks.

[x42bn6]

Surely if we had a general rating for every player, it would be far too easy like Premier Manager Scout's star ratings are fine

There are two ways of measuring the difficulty of a game - difficulty in getting into the game, and the game's actual difficulty. This suggestion affects the first - it simplifies the way in which we can peruse players and gain quick bits of knowledge (if not the full picture). It doesn't necessarily make things easier - the user simply uses his or her time differently.

So does it make it too easy? I don't think so. It just makes things quicker and more fun to play, because you don't waste your time clicking and then clicking "back" soon after - again and again.

[Johnny Ace]

So does it make it too easy? I don't think so. It just makes things quicker and more fun to play, because you don't waste your time clicking and then clicking "back" soon after - again and again.

I think it does, to be told how good or bad every single player in the game is without scouting them would make it too easy. That's exactly why we have to scout them, it's part of the realism of the game

[x42bn6]

I think it does, to be told how good or bad every single player in the game is without scouting them would make it too easy. That's exactly why we have to scout them, it's part of the realism of the game

Firstly, it's only going to be a rough idea.

Secondly, I question whether you really need to scout every single player given you can infer things from sources like news and social media.

If anything, I think it's more realistic for other sources of information to scout a player initially for you, and you fine-tune your scouting.

[Smurf]

I think it does, to be told how good or bad every single player in the game is without scouting them would make it too easy. That's exactly why we have to scout them, it's part of the realism of the game

Who said anything about every single player in the game?

Just the best and the best youngsters. It's not too unrealistic to say that most managers would know who the best players, best young players are in the world and in their current league - without having to do any scouting.

It's fine when you start the game - because you already know this. You can even use the internets to look up teams and players. But as the game pushes on and you only have newgens - there's literally about 60 players per team - and say roughly 20 teams per leauge - you're looking at 1,200 new players. And take into account the lower leauges, the foreign leaguse - say 5 leagues with 3 depths (15 leauges) of all new players complete new gens.

Take that 1,200 for the english league and multiply it by 15 that's 18,000 new players.

And the only way you know if a player is good by scouting them???? Or waiting for the awards to come out in december??? By value - a player in leauge 1 that's 16 won't be as pricey as someone playing at Barcelona... and who knows the League 1 16 year old might be the next Ian Wright?

C'mon seriously - tell me you can't see the value in having some sort of central hub that houses the brightest players and brightest youths in the game?

Really?

[Swindon69]

Sorry if I've misunderstood but it seems that the OP wants his scouts to automatically know where to go a find wonderkids.

I'd also question the assumption that most managers would know who the best youngsters were.

[Smurf]

It's absolutely no co-incidence that top teams were/are after Chamberlain, Walcott, Sterling, Rooney, Fabregas, etc.

Do you really think that managers don't know who the best and brightest are???

[x42bn6]

Sorry if I've misunderstood but it seems that the OP wants his scouts to automatically know where to go a find wonderkids.

I'd also question the assumption that most managers would know who the best youngsters were.

They would know the most-hyped, certainly.

I'd note it's not just players - things like teams, too, need some form of innate knowledge. For example, the best academies in the world (instead of trawling through every single youth player produced and tracking their progress) or teams who are "well-known" for their pass-and-move ethos (or route-one). Things that take ages to look for but are known in real-life rather quickly.

[Swindon69]

It's absolutely no co-incidence that top teams were/are after Chamberlain, Walcott, Sterling, Rooney, Fabregas, etc.

Do you really think that managers don't know who the best and brightest are???

These players - apart from Fabregas were already performing, Fabregas went to Arsenal at 16, I'm not sure that he was a household name at that point - it was Arsenals scouts that found him.

[Smurf]

I'd argue that it's a Scouts job to know where to look to find wonderkids. The better the scout the better the reports they give.

It is their job - and yet you spend so much time scouting players and telling scouts who to scout. I mean it's nearly ridiculous.

[Swindon69]

And the only way you know if a player is good by scouting them???? Or waiting for the awards to come out in december??? By value - a player in leauge 1 that's 16 won't be as pricey as someone playing at Barcelona... and who knows the League 1 16 year old might be the next Ian Wright?

Well professional teams didn't know at 16 how good Ian Wright would be - a scout happened to see him playing for Dulwich Hamlet hence the fact he turned pro at 22.

[milnerpoint]

It's absolutely no co-incidence that top teams were/are after Chamberlain, Walcott, Sterling, Rooney, Fabregas, etc.

Do you really think that managers don't know who the best and brightest are???

then why did these players not end up at huge clubs much younger, if like you say everyone knew who Rooney was before we did then why did man u have to pay **** loads to get him, surely if he was that well known we would have read about a bidding war at 14 for him, same goes for Walcott, im sure if everyone knew about him right away he would not have come through Southamptons youth system, he would have already been snapped up long before arsenal had to pay £10m for him. There are no stories of bidding wars for Messi before Barca got him ,again if it was that well known that he had that kind of talent we would have read about ALL the huge clubs trying to get him. There players were ALL spotted after scouts came back and said "hey there is a young guy worth looking at here" much like the game does, we send scouts all over the world and they come back with reports, its up to us if they carry on watching these players or if we are not bothered. Ill say it again, there is no definative list of the worlds top prospects sent out each year to every team, clubs do not advertise their top kids or make anyone else aware unelss they want to sell, you guys just seem to want the game to make everything as easy as possible without having to put any effort into it, where as i can agree if you have little interest in actually doing anything other than sign the best players the game tells you too and pressing continue as quick as possible then yes it would be good, but for everyone who actually wants to do the hard work and put a bit of effort into finding players it would ruin the game.

[milnerpoint]

I'd argue that it's a Scouts job to know where to look to find wonderkids. The better the scout the better the reports they give.

It is their job - and yet you spend so much time scouting players and telling scouts who to scout. I mean it's nearly ridiculous.

"to know where to look", are you saying that wonderkids appear from the same place all the time, "oh messi came from this city lets base ourselves here until his next reincarnation is born", it doesnt work like that, there is no specific place to look, top players will appear from anywhere at any time, there is no set place where the top players come from.

[Smurf]

No that's not what I'm saying at all.

Are you telling me that Scouting cannot be improved in FM???

[Smurf]

Walcott, Beckham, Messi, etc. all snapped up at young ages by clubs and youth systems, same with Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, etc.

I knew about Beckham as a bright tallent before he signed for Man Utd, and I knew about Joe Cole and Michael Carrick at West Ham, along with Ferdinand, Lampard etc.

I was 15 at the time and even I knew they were the brightest players coming through football.

[Swindon69]

Re Lionel Messi - Barcelona, had been made aware of his talent as Messi had relatives in Lleida, Catalonia

[dafuge]

Walcott, Beckham, Messi, etc. all snapped up at young ages by clubs and youth systems, same with Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, etc.

I knew about Beckham as a bright tallent before he signed for Man Utd, and I knew about Joe Cole and Michael Carrick at West Ham, along with Ferdinand, Lampard etc.

I was 15 at the time and even I knew they were the brightest players coming through football.

The trouble with that comparison is that FM doesn't really cater for youth football, the regens appear at clubs after a lot of the scouting of the youth clubs has taken place.

Using the player search, filtering players under 17 and sorting by value would instantly give you a bunch of names of kids that are likely to be the next generation of stars. It is easy enough to spot the future stars without scouting, but you have to look for them yourself rather than just being handed them on a plate.

[x42bn6]

"to know where to look", are you saying that wonderkids appear from the same place all the time

I'm not sure how you conclude that knowing where to look implies that players turn up in the same cities all the time.

All he is saying that scouts will be aware of various rumours through various contacts and they will be more-informed of where to look.

If Espanyol's Under-15 team is making waves in their youth league, scouts will naturally be drawn towards that region.

[Smurf]

In saying that - I also head Simon Davies and Matthew Etherington as bright prospects - they still play in the prem, but nowhere near a standard of world class.

But that's what I mean about the game, you don't hear about these players unless you scout every leauge.

And I don't feel that's reflective. Sure you might hear of some wonderkids, scouts might report on them, will they amount to anything? Only time tells.

The way the scouting is at the moment needs drastic improvement though. It needs to be better.

[x42bn6]

The trouble with that comparison is that FM doesn't really cater for youth football, the regens appear at clubs after a lot of the scouting of the youth clubs has taken place.

Using the player search, filtering players under 17 and sorting by value would instantly give you a bunch of names of kids that are likely to be the next generation of stars. It is easy enough to spot the future stars without scouting, but you have to look for them yourself rather than just being handed them on a plate.

Value is skewed by reputation though, and a lot of future greats came from relatively poor clubs (both Ronaldos, arguably Zidane, arguably Messi, for example).

[dafuge]

Value is skewed by reputation though, and a lot of future greats came from relatively poor clubs (both Ronaldos, arguably Zidane, arguably Messi, for example).

It won't get you all of them, but it will certainly get some of them. A bit like the way you'd pick up on some names of youngsters in real life but not others, with the ones with bigger reputations being the more likely ones.

[x42bn6]

It won't get you all of them, but it will certainly get some of them. A bit like the way you'd pick up on some names of youngsters in real life but not others, with the ones with bigger reputations being the more likely ones.

Well yes, but that's not the point - you get lots of hyped-wonderkids at lower levels too, but cannot find them easily in-game, whilst you can ring off Fabian Delph, Theo Walcott, Luke Freeman and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain as youngsters doing very well in reality in lower leagues.

In other words, reality does not match the game.

[dafuge]

Well yes, but that's not the point - you get lots of hyped-wonderkids at lower levels too, but cannot find them easily in-game, whilst you can ring off Fabian Delph, Theo Walcott, Luke Freeman and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain as youngsters doing very well in reality in lower leagues.

In other words, reality does not match the game.

I agree. As I said ages ago, it is because the media in FM cannot compare to real life. It could definitely improve, but it still won't even get close.

[x42bn6]

I agree. As I said ages ago, it is because the media in FM cannot compare to real life. It could definitely improve, but it still won't even get close.

I don't see that as a reason to disagree with the OP.

Both scouting and the media need to improve.

[dafuge]

I don't see that as a reason to disagree with the OP.

Both scouting and the media need to improve.

Maybe my first post wasn't clear, I was agreeing with the OP. I was just trying to suggest a reason why it was the case.

[ashbag]

Yes, the media could do with some improvement. But don't tell me you already knew who Beckham, or Carrick, or Lampard was as an example of why you don't need a scout. The only way you knew about these players was because they were scouted and snapped up. Or you're lying or you can see in the future or by some odd chance you happen to follow Ridgeway Rovers and the other respective youth teams. The things is, like Dafuge said, FM misses out these steps.

I have a few ideas that could improve your "common knowledge" later on, but they have side-affects:

1) Depending on your scouting knowledge, when a young player is "labelled as the new...", you get a message about it. The player's value will increase, AI clubs will become more interested.

2) When a young player performs well on his début or is performing quite well in your country and others (depending on scouting knowledge), you get a message about it. The player's value increases, more clubs interested, ambitious player will demand a bigger contract/request transfer.

3) Clubs may hold a two-week open trial. This generates around twenty to thirty 14-18 year old regens for the trial period that can be browsed, with coach reports and a trial game vs the U18s. They can then be added to your youth squad at will. When the trial ends all the unsigned players disappear.

4) When a club in your league and a big domestic (or big foreign club, depending on whether you are in the top division or not) holds a trial you get a message alerting you to scout the trial and attempt to poach a player. Once a trial has finished you get a message of players taken on with one player mentioned as "having potential" by the trial coaches.

Criticise at will.

[RBKalle]

The much needed revamp of the media/news aspect of the game would be very difficult due to the enormous amount of data involved...

I think the easiest way is some sort of "Top __" (be it 10, 50 or 100 depending on the list) for many categories/leagues?

Like "Top50 Under18s in English football" or "Top50 defenders in Italy" and so on...

Sorting players by value in the standard Search Player panel is a rather simplistic and quite overrated solution IMO, and it just works if you're managing a club with boatloads of money and with the highest reputation...

It's all fine if you're Chelsea, but if you're a Championship side, or a club from an European "backyard league", then you're screwed... not even the "Filter unrealistic targets" option would help much, as you can't always afford the transfer fee and/or the wage+bonuses of a player who could eventually accept a move to your club.

Then again, I suppose we're sort of lumping together two different issues which should be treated and solved separately

1) our real life knowledge of the football universe versus our lack of knowledge of the FM universe as soon as it's mostly populated by newgens versus the omniscient (yet a tad dumb) AI managers

2) scouting for the next Messis before they become the next Messis.

The latter can be solved with a long overdue tweak/revamp of the scouting dynamics

The former is trickier, but I maintain my idea of a "default evaluation for well-known players in your area" would solve a lot of things with little effort.

P.S. and yes it is indeed some sort of "the game will tell me Player A is good, Player B is average", but isn't it what you say to yourself in the first day of the game when you decide to make an offer for Neymar and not for Randominho or Mediocrão?

P.P.S. now that I think of it, your AssMan comes up with "unscouted" players to sign in the Team Report tab, and so do your coaches during meeting.

So if they can suggest you players without having scouted them, why can't this feature be expanded in order to give you the same amount of general knowledge about all the players you're supposed/expected to know about anyway?

[Johnny Ace]

I see what you guys mean. I think one of the main things is top players, the Messis & Beckhams of the footballing world are discovered by clubs at a young age, much younger than what we have in FM. They're probably noticed by scouts at the age of 7 or something when we don't really have this in the game as it would be far too deep & complex.

Regens pop up at the age 14+, where your club has already scouted & recruited them for the youth team. The media won't pick up on these players before the talent scouts do, I doubt Messi was made a big deal of by the media at the age of 7 when Barca noticed & snapped him into their academy him (well, he probably was but you know what I mean) & I highly doubt that media hype over a player will be the first time the top teams know of these players but of course we don't have 7 year olds in FM.

This week was the first time I'd heard of that Sterling lad at Liverpool via the media, Liverpool signed him from QPR so the Liverpool scouts knew about before the hype

Again, just having a list of the best players is too easy & the best sometimes aren't suitable for your team. Signing the best striker in the world isn't always the best player for your team, he could have all the attributes to make a deadly fast striker but useless in the air & weak, you try playing him as a Target Man he won't be very effective. To find the player I need I'd search for him with TM attributes

As mentioned, all the info we have in the game is plenty to find the best players for your team & potential future superstars without the game just putting on a plate for us

[CaptainPlanet]

I wonder if Ancelotti spends hours looking through a database of the world's players, filtering them by numerical attributes regardless of them being scouted or not and then looking at which ones have a value that fits into his budget.

The current way in FM of finiding new signings through player search, scouting etc. is unrealistic. But by god it's one of the most fun and involved features of the game.

I want more filter options on player search, more scouting options and more detailed scout reports. I do not want it realistic and simplified.

[Smurf]

I

I want more filter options on player search, more scouting options and more detailed scout reports. I do not want it realistic and simplified.

Exactly

The only way I know if I want to sign a youth player 15 or 16 is by first scouting them for about 3 matches. I get a good silver star rating of 4 or more stars, plus a gold star rating of 4 or plus stars.

Ok they look good and the scouts think they can be something. So I subscribe to the player, I scout them every 3 months.

Then if Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man Utd, or other big club bid for him I have to go for them.

I'm still only in 2013 in the game. And I'm signing all the best young players I can that are recommended very highly to me. I'm loaning them out, getting them football. Giving them league cup games, fa cup games and one or two of them get a champs league game (against the fourth seed).

I'm really pushing hard to see if they will become good. But I have absolutely no idea how they are going to turn out. They're getting decent ratings playing in the first team and some are even scoring. Some stats do look impressive.

I reckon by 2020 I'll peak at them in FMRTE. Just to see how good this scouting was. What players the scouts have missed (in 10 seasons).

I remember playing a game before where Real and Barca where signing young players of 15 and 16 quite a lot. And I'd look them up in FMRTE and they were crap. But my scouts had them very highly rated.

Currently 3rd season with Spurs, 2 prem titles and a champs leauge title. So I should be able to attract some decent youth players. I've signed some of the best scouts (based on rep and by JPA and JPP along with good mental attributes).

For me, it will be really interesting to see how the scouts have done for me - compared to other regens that have come into the game that they haven't found.

As I said earlier, I knew from news reports about the likes of beckham, lampard, joe cole, and a plethora of other players that came out of the West Ham youth academy. Surely if I knew these players when they were 14/15/16 (through media) that other managers and clubs would know them too (by repuatation at school boy international level/word of mouth/youth leagues/media/scouts etc.)

[x42bn6]

I do not want it realistic and simplified.

It won't be made easier in all ways. It just adds depth. Being able to scout players yourself will mean that you have a gameplay decision to develop your own scouting abilities and trust your own virtual scouting stars. Having various magazines in-game hyping up youngsters leads to the possibility they are not actually that good or the pressure makes them crumble.

The difficulty shifts between lots of tedious clicking to lots of thinking and planning. Do you get another scout to watch this player, or do you simply trust the original scout's intuition?

I wouldn't say it's easier - I'd simply say it's different.

A bit like the tactics wizard - it makes tactics much easier, but it means that more users are able to share and discuss tactics in a simpler way, minus slider-talk. Has it made the game easier? It has made the game more accessible, but tactics themselves are still as difficult as before - the tactics wizard hasn't made it to the point where you can create a tactic to easily go unbeaten forever.

[dindle]

I take the OP's point. Seems like certain players should already have "reports". As a top manager I'd already know about Balotelli's attitude problems, let's say. It's also odd for a scout at, say, Barcelona to report to you as manager of Barcelona "hey, have a look at this Fabregas guy, he's going places".

It might also be nice for smarter things to come through your news feeds, say, monthly or randomly generated reports of certain players having very good seasons or spurts of great form in foreign leagues, "such and such is tearing it up in the Russian Premier Division" and so on. Particularly for emerging talent. Seems like more could be done in terms of world football immersion, but then I still don't understand doing away with automatically seeing the results of the Champions League, World Cup, Europa League and so on, as and when they occur, without having to fiddle with preferences every new game.

[Smurf]

Now we're getting somewhere.

I like that idea of a scout coming to you and reporting on the top performers in the league.

(i know i can sort the scout reports by avg rating, goals, tackles etc. but would prefer a comprehensive report from a scout in regards to stats relating to their playing position).

[ATW]

Why do you have to tell them to do anything? Surely you hire a scout and that's what they go and do? Sure it would be nice to be more specific, but what if they had initiative, motivation, intelligence, stats of this nature. You hire a English scout then use their initiative, intelligence, motivation etc. to scout relevant matches, cups, competitions, teams youth teams etc.

Not how it works. You tell them what you are looking for as, because you're the manager YOU, and only YOU are in charge of what players you want (mainly does for British Football). A Scout, who is being paid by the club is not going to go of on one and scout a BSP league match without knowing that his boss (the manager) is wanting someone from that league - or even better someone specific from that league. Although they do come to you with suggestions of who or what to scout. Germany seems to be a favourite with the Spanish clubs I've managed!

Also, as a manager it is very easy to scout a team, match or whatever. Find the team the player plays for, go to fixtures and click which game you want to view.

IRL Scouts do a lot more than just decide if a player can play football. They can at times delve deep into a player. Looking at past injuries, tendency of what he gets up to away from the training ground/match day. How likely he is to settle in a country (if he is moving from a foreign one). For example we all know Wilshere is gonna be good - or should be if he lives up to his potential, but none of us know if he was to sign for some Spanish, French, German or hell even Maltese team would he be any good. Scouts work can includes all this - by talking to those in the know.

I literally have to filter about 120 - 200 players by position and by their Postional Stats (like Tacking, Mistakes, Red Cards, Loan ratings all accessible through the Hidden Table Menus in the Player Search/Shortlist) but it's by no means an easy task and it's very very daunting.

Wait, you're moaning that you need to filter players, but then moaning they should be on the plate for you because you know who the best players in the world are. If you knew who the best players were then all you have to do is type said players name into the search box and boom there he is.

Also, managers don't know these players because they are football managers. They know these players because they have contacts, be it scouts, former employers/employess or the fact they had a day off one day and decided to take a stroll down the beach or something (how Mallorca found Stevenson before Stevenson became home sick). In other words history in the game has allowed them to know certain players.

What's wrong with the scouts coming to you at the end of a season and giving a round up of the top 5 players from each league that season?

I would love you to be able to find out the top 5 players from each league that season. Start of with Mongolia please.

Scouts cannot do that because even the very best Scouts would struggle with that. Of course, you had a Scout based in that country for the season they may be able to do it for you but you'd still have to order them to go to that country - or even better if you have the league running then you can actually subscribe to their player of the year announcements.

[milnerpoint]

With the scouts coming to you at the end of a season with the top 5 players, would this be based on average rating, goals, tackles, clean sheets, what would be the deciding factors?

[Smurf]

Not how it works. You tell them what you are looking for as, because you're the manager YOU, and only YOU are in charge of what players you want (mainly does for British Football). A Scout, who is being paid by the club is not going to go of on one and scout a BSP league match without knowing that his boss (the manager) is wanting someone from that league - or even better someone specific from that league. Although they do come to you with suggestions of who or what to scout. Germany seems to be a favourite with the Spanish clubs I've managed!

I beg to differ. It's more the director of football would handle the head scout and organise nations and leagues to scout. The manager of course can have input (as I've said countless times in this thread). Sure you can be more specific with scouts and get them to scout specific things or players. But all in all - If I'm managing the Premiership team and I hire a scout that's scouting knowledge is Spain and South America - then yeh I'd like you to get to work straight away please.

At the moment you hire a scout and you can leave him sitting there. He'll come into work everyday, put his feet up and not do anything. I highly doubt that's how it works in the real world.

How about if you were hiring the scout and there was "expectations" area - sort of like an interview. Now the Scout comes here looking for his contract after you approach to hire them. And you can put in the expectations "I want you to find youth players playing in either Spain or South America". Then when they're hired they toddle off to do the scouting and report back.

All I'm asking is that there's a certain level of cop-on when it comes to hiring the scouts. You don't have to tell the physios to go massage John Terry because he's tired from the last game. You don't have to tell the physio to treat Gareth Bales torn hamstring.

I'm just asking that you hire a scout that they come and do their job. Sure you can get more specific with them that's not a problem. But the very least is that they come to the club and start working without you having lead them by the hand.

"OOoooh you're a good littel Spanish scout... go to Spain, awwww go to Spain" *rub him on the head and throw him a biscuit*

Also, as a manager it is very easy to scout a team, match or whatever. Find the team the player plays for, go to fixtures and click which game you want to view.

Who said anything about it being difficult? What happens after you attend the game? You get a news report "Eugene Tyson was at the Arsenal game no doubt looking at Theo Walcott who he is interested in signing".

Nothing gets added to stats or his scout report.

The very least it could do is give a much clearer picture of their Potential (as any manager with a brain would be able to see potential in a player).

IRL Scouts do a lot more than just decide if a player can play football. They can at times delve deep into a player. Looking at past injuries, tendency of what he gets up to away from the training ground/match day. How likely he is to settle in a country (if he is moving from a foreign one). For example we all know Wilshere is gonna be good - or should be if he lives up to his potential, but none of us know if he was to sign for some Spanish, French, German or hell even Maltese team would he be any good. Scouts work can includes all this - by talking to those in the know.

No idea what your point is here? Talking about adapatability? Well there was Pique, did quite well. But then there was Gabrielle Paletta, who just couldn't cut it in the premiership.

This happens all the time in real life .Players come and go from foreign clubs and it would take mind-reader to know if they fit in. In the game you'll get a player who is unsettled. But you give him a two week holiday and he settles right in when he comes back.

Again, not really sure what the point was?

Wait, you're moaning that you need to filter players, but then moaning they should be on the plate for you because you know who the best players in the world are. If you knew who the best players were then all you have to do is type said players name into the search box and boom there he is.

Nobody is moaning here? There is no way that a Scout at Man United e-mails Alex Ferguson with a list of players with stars beside their name and says "There you go Boss, I recommend these players". Then Alex Ferguson sifts through them and looks up their stats.

I am willing to bet that the scout reports cover everything about the player including prior season stats, current season stats, injury history, loan history, value, vital stats related to their position etc.

Currently I do have to weed through a lot of players to get this information. It's not easily accessible in the game, not the way the scout reports are presented. I'm advocating that the scout reports be better.

Also, managers don't know these players because they are football managers. They know these players because they have contacts, be it scouts, former employers/employess or the fact they had a day off one day and decided to take a stroll down the beach or something (how Mallorca found Stevenson before Stevenson became home sick). In other words history in the game has allowed them to know certain players.

Exactly. My point exactly. Does the history of you in the game in 2050 allow you to know certain players? Do you ever hear from a retired player, retired coach, coach at another club, scout networks etc. about up and coming players?

Do you ever see a Media report touting "A player dubbed the next Ronaldo has come through the youth academy at Shaktar Donesk" or a media report saying "Hey boss, I was talking to another scout I used to work with a few years ago and he's heard about this great talent playing in Gremio".

I just typed into Google there "Man United Scouting" and it came up with loads of media stories about who Man U are scouting. But you never hear within the game who another team is scouting???

I would love you to be able to find out the top 5 players from each league that season. Start of with Mongolia please.

Don't be absurd. I speak about "common knowledge" not "omni-knowledge". But if were to start playing Football Manager and started off in Mongolia, and my Nationality was Mongolian, and I was an ex-international player for Mongolia. Do you not think I'd have some prior knowledge of what players are good in Mongolia, know a bit about the leage, the managers, the players, the coaches etc.?

That's common knowledge, certainly for an ex-international Mongolian footballing superstar.

Scouts cannot do that because even the very best Scouts would struggle with that. Of course, you had a Scout based in that country for the season they may be able to do it for you but you'd still have to order them to go to that country - or even better if you have the league running then you can actually subscribe to their player of the year announcements.

What about if the Scout was Mongolian??? Do you think they should know the best mongolian palyer without having to go to Mongolia?

Why do you have to wait for a player of the year announcement to hear about the best player in a league? Take the Mongolian example again - if I was Mongolian nationality in the game and ran the Mongolian league - why would I have to wait until the "Player of the Year" announcement to find out the best player(s)???

Same to you buddy.

[Smurf]

With the scouts coming to you at the end of a season with the top 5 players, would this be based on average rating, goals, tackles, clean sheets, what would be the deciding factors?

Just their most vital stats for the position they play. I don't really need to know how many clean sheets a striker got. I just need to know, how many shots, how many goals, how many on target, injured, man of the match, discipline, personality, pace, finishing etc.

That's what I want to see when I filter by Striker - those stats (possibly more) but just related to their position.

So when i Filter by Defenders it shows up the stats for defenders, like tackles, penalities conceded, red cards, pace, acceleration, tackles per game, etc.

A scout should be able to put all this together in a Scout Report.