Mr Hough 4-1-1-2-2 FM11.1 Tactic

[Green Goblin]

Hi Mr Hough,

I feel like something is wrong. Here my observations :

The distance between the 2 dm and the wingers is too large and when my wingers have the ball they are too far from the penalty area. The DM not support them enough and the only thing they can do is run with the ball. If the wingers are in front of hard fullback then they will never create anything.

David can you fix this please? Its the tactic's biggest issue.

[ZippyStar]

Mr. Hough

I have been having mixed results.. with Sunderland... I have been playing most matches 2-3 times just for the consistency of the tactic... Mostly if I win I win... if I lost I tend to lose... trying out OI and without OI... against weak teams ... OI helps .. but against strong ones.. they seem to out play me...

I started new game... and have been using http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/241387-4-2-3-1-Super_Defense

For Away games... beat man utd and drawed chelsea 3-3... I think the tac has something decent in it... Still I am very unwilling to play with 2DMs...

EDIT: just to point. I do NOT Allow Transfer in 1st Season ...so no new players for me...

[Darkone]

I may be one those who is doing ok with this tactic!

Started as Spurs and only bought two players and kept everyone else bar Cudicini who I sold.

Current 3rd in the league with one away defeat to Man U 2-1 which should have been minimum a draw, beat Seville (4-1) and Roma in the CL. What to me seems to be key is Robbie Keane who I tried to sell the moment I started he is murdering teams in the deep lying forward role everything goes through him.

The issues I think though are that the midfield is set up not to lose and this tactic could enable you to dominate teams if the shackles could be removed from at least 1 of those DM's.

[Mr Hough]

Working on a new version guys bear with me, Having brilliant results on my Celtic Career save but i must stress celtic have a decent side but do lack in defence i haven't improved the defence either so it's a bonus.

[ZippyStar]

Ok here is some more info.

I wanna say... for away games. I have been useing the previouslly metioned Super Defens tactic...

Using default sunderland squad. I haven't owned a single game.. most are quite equal but I seem to come on top. Hardest games were vs. Woves.. Absolutely LUCKY win for me... both games.

[HaraldNatvik]

I feel kinda sad to be honest, I wanted this tactic to be top class, I really thought it was because you would if you won the Treble with Everton in your first season wouldn't you!

Anyway i'm working on something else now, same formation but i'm gonna instead of testing iot with mid table team, I'm gonna test it lower league first then high team after

I'm confident that you will succeed. Don't worry. I'm having success with both your FM11 tactics, but we still have a way to go before any of them are as legendary as your FM10 tactics. You might get more success with the new patch, when it comes, or you need to try to build a new type of tactic. It's not easy, for sure, but you're a legend and I'm certain you'll get it right eventually.

[bill_barlow]

Im sure this game is fixed. Ive changed this formation to a 4 1 1 3 1 im conceding no CCC's in games but losing. Just conceded 4 vs Spurs off not 1 CCC and the similars been happening in the last 6 games or so. Im sure si are determinned to make a game its impossible to win on. Pathetic.

[Elhan]

Im sure this game is fixed. Ive changed this formation to a 4 1 1 3 1 im conceding no CCC's in games but losing. Just conceded 4 vs Spurs off not 1 CCC and the similars been happening in the last 6 games or so. Im sure si are determinned to make a game its impossible to win on. Pathetic.

Impossible is nothing! Punts apart, the problem is party how the ME interprets CCCs and how players interpret CCCs. For example, if a player takes a shot withing the area, while being unmarked, it might still not count as a ccc if there is a player between him and the keeper, even if that defender is miles away and not marking the player taking the shot. The same goes for headers, most headers will not count for CCCs even if the likelyhood of them ending up in a goal is far greater than that of a striker going one on one with a keeper.

Now, where the players usually misinterpret CCCs is this:"Clear Cut Chances" doesn't mean it's a great chance to score. Nine out of ten times it just means that one of your players had a one on one with the keeper. The amount of goals scored in real football from one on one chances is far below 50%. So there you have it, CCCs really aren't all that maters, and some tactics can score lots of goals without creating CCCs. Tactics that typicaly play from the flanks, with crosses and the like for example. Again, to empahsise: CCCs does not equal goalscoring chances. CCCs are a specific type of goalscoring chances.

As usual, SI are brilliant giving counter-intuitive names to sliders, statistics and the like (take the "counter attack" option for example - pure class)

[Bebetu]

My Blackpool side still struggle to win or make some good results even after 13 games and i stand to my opinion that this tactic would work only with mid-high teams.Speaking about ME I really think now that crosses combined with diving strikers and lack of reaction of defenders(in some cases with many autogoals) needs some fixes because is ridicoulos maybe more than 70 % of goals come from flanks and something could be broken IMO.I think the most dangerous teams when playing vs AI are those with 4-5-1 tactic having 3 midfielders that keeps u under presure and winning many balls back and after that attacking u with 2 wingers-inside forwards and apparently they seems unstopable anyway just because that AI doesnt need many people into my goalkeeper area to receive perfect crosses,in some cases even as a lone striker:).

[Mr Hough]

My Blackpool side still struggle to win or make some good results even after 13 games and i stand to my opinion that this tactic would work only with mid-high teams.Speaking about ME I really think now that crosses combined with diving strikers and lack of reaction of defenders(in some cases with many autogoals) needs some fixes because is ridicoulos maybe more than 70 % of goals come from flanks and something could be broken IMO.I think the most dangerous teams when playing vs AI are those with 4-5-1 tactic having 3 midfielders that keeps u under presure and winning many balls back and after that attacking u with 2 wingers-inside forwards and apparently they seems unstopable anyway just because that AI doesnt need many people into my goalkeeper area to receive perfect crosses,in some cases even as a lone striker:).

Lol do yourself a favour and just stop using it mate.

[Gee_Simpson]

Lol do yourself a favour and just stop using it mate.

Lol I think you may be right here.

[NaRaYaN]

I feel kinda sad to be honest, I wanted this tactic to be top class, I really thought it was because you would if you won the Treble with Everton in your first season wouldn't you!

Anyway i'm working on something else now, same formation but i'm gonna instead of testing iot with mid table team, I'm gonna test it lower league first then high team after

Honestly it's not your work thats the problem, yours is the best tactic by far but I think FM2011 now has a healthy dose of realism and results will not always go your way and you have to be able to change if the need arises.

[Bebetu]

Lol do yourself a favour and just stop using it mate.

Dont worry i still appreciate u as a "good tactician" in FM:) just keep it up with your good tactics.

[Mickeylad]

I'm Newcastle, been using this tactic for about 10 games and only won 1, got beat 5-1 off wolves and Wigan 4-1, and man utd 7-0, so unfortunately im gonna have to bin the tactic and try something else, appreciate the effort you have been putting in though.

[Gee_Simpson]

Looking forward to you finding a solution for this, Dave. If anyone can do it you can

[Kats0unam1]

I started a new save with my Juventus, and i think this tactic wont work at serie A. I would got hammer by countyer-atack

[Flohrinho]

Honestly it's not your work thats the problem, yours is the best tactic by far but I think FM2011 now has a healthy dose of realism and results will not always go your way and you have to be able to change if the need arises.

Yes I really think one of the problems why we think most of the tactics are **** is because we were so used to be able to win a lot even with bad teams and with good results like 3 or 4 - 0 which just doesn't seam to be possible anymore.

[gav1979]

mr hough,do you think with the width set quite narrow is an issue?the opposition with me on my tactics exploit the wings and always seem to concede a header from a cross,so if the width was set to wide would the players push out wider and be better at defending the crosses,if the ai plays wide and we are narrow surely there wingers will have that fraction more space?just a theory,what are the problems people are having,not tried this tactic yet so busy at work and not a lot of spare time,when i have time at weekend i think converted to 4-4-2 diamond or maybe dr,dl,dc,dc,dmc,mr,ml,amc,amc,sc

[Flohrinho]

mr hough,do you think with the width set quite narrow is an issue?the opposition with me on my tactics exploit the wings and always seem to concede a header from a cross,so if the width was set to wide would the players push out wider and be better at defending the crosses,if the ai plays wide and we are narrow surely there wingers will have that fraction more space?just a theory,what are the problems people are having,not tried this tactic yet so busy at work and not a lot of spare time,when i have time at weekend i think converted to 4-4-2 diamond or maybe dr,dl,dc,dc,dmc,mr,ml,amc,amc,sc

No they wouldn't.

Your width has nothing to do with the width in defending as far as I can tell even if you play at the widest formation your players aren't getting better at defending wingers.

Width seams to only apply to your attacking game the only benefit it could have is that if you have to defend suddenly your players are already in a wide position which could also be achieved by setting your FBs to "Hug touchline".

[Glassy80]

Got promoted with QPR in my first season with your first FM11 tactic then used this in the 2nd season. I think your original one is better personally. I went on a 7 game losing run using this, then went back to the old tactic and won 2 on the trot.

[gav1979]

how essential is a defensive midfielder,would it be wise to not play them and move in to mc role

[ThomasCro]

Switched back to your beta tactic, having huge success with it.

[Tanon]

Working on a new version guys bear with me, Having brilliant results on my Celtic Career save but i must stress celtic have a decent side but do lack in defence i haven't improved the defence either so it's a bonus.

And now started to wait for new version of yours tactic:) I used this one for a year, get promoted with Nottm Forest and even reach FA CUP final. But i think defence is so damn poor, im losing so many goals;/

[cerud]

I switched to the new 11.1 tactic from your beta in my Cheonan Korean N-League save. Was doing okay with the beta, but conceding and many goals as I got. The new 11.1 tactic was a wonder! I never lost a game on it and won many with clean sheets. Got 1st in the league, promoted to K-League and still going strong. The one thing I do know is pace and stamina are essential, especially for those wingers that need to cover the distance to the DMs. I wonder what a DM and MC partnership would be like as some of the other posts here. But, so far, I'm happy!

cerud

[Darkone]

I am still doing pretty well with this tactic.

Top of the league and have lost on one game all season away to Man U.

I have made a few tweaks to try and link the midfield better the deep lying forward is changed to support and the defensive midfielder to deep lying playmaker also on support. I was still winning before I made these changes but since I made these tweaks I have conceded one goal and have had the following results:

Auxerre (a) 3-1 w

Stoke (a) 3-0 w

W ham (h) 1-0 w

Newcastle (a) 3-0

[raskashtan]

This tactic is decent but the Beta one that uses the old tactic system worked wonders for me

[Stejo]

The problem is pretty simple. It's not possible to have a tactic that works equally well whether you're the favorite or the underdog for the game, unless there's a fundamental flaw in the match engine which you can consistently exploit. I feel sympathetic to your struggle Mr Hough, but I really doubt you'll be able to produce a plug and play tactic that gives excellent results for every team. Even if a tactic can make a relegation candidate achieve the treble, that still doesn't mean that it will bring any kind of success to a team that's predicted to finish 1st. Not to mention of course that team talks play such an important role in the performance that quite often are way more decisive than the tactic itself.

There's a load of old timers who prefer having a plug and play tactic that works and just watch the games, make subs and handle transfers. Your excellent tactics catered to that crowd last year, but SI keeps trying harder every year to lose them from customers. Maybe they achieved it finally this time and you should stop bothering.

[Guest]

Mr Hough

thanks for your tatic , its really started to work well with my arsenal team even though it does not really suit players like cesc , but i may sell him in season 2 and work around this tatic more . I started off with a few draws and a loss but the team then went on a 7 match unbeaten run winning all games , im now 4 games away from winning the league but i have tough games against chelsea and man u.

My last match i beat liverpool 4-0 at home , also ive noticed the team does not get overun in midfield now like it did at the start.

[Boggot]

Have to say a big thanks to you Mr Hough for this latest tactic. Your last one worked a treat getting me into a stable position in the 2nd Div with Gloucester. But now this new one has worked wonders. My first year in the 1st Div and as you can see the tactic is performing miracles.

I don't know how you do it, but i would still be in blue square south if it wasn't for you and people like yourself who go out of their way to create tactics for us to use so thanks muchly!

[maddison hoops]

just wondered, is this game meant to have stadiums and stands and fans???

[high_and_mighty]

just wondered, is this game meant to have stadiums and stands and fans???

No mate , but if you got them , you`re lucky !

[ZippyStar]

Some more results....

Ok... so your tactic ain't like that 4-1-2-3 you had in FM10... but is sure works... its not just plug and win all... I still use SuperDef when games gets serious.. or for hard away matches... but I usually start with yours... lead 1-2 goals.. switch to defens if they start turning.

I don't own... usually I am even with less shots then opposition but... i score more.. Bent and Gyan own... I always loved all PHYS stats players like M. Richards and Onuoha

Mid season now... First I had set target at Mid Table finish... changed it to Clalification for EU and they gave me whooping 50M... got Benitez, Costa, Phil Jones, Munoz, Paulo Henrique. (got fed up with the usual Lukaku/Neymar etc etc etc). And I hope you be able to keep it up... so again Goodwork Hough

P.S. all other teams in the League have been hacing crappy games.. Man United lost to newcastle blackpool blackburn.. same goes for Arsenal... And I just got the msg Tottenham haven't scored in 6 games...

so I am counting myself lucky...

[Dirty Harry]

Switched back to your beta tactic, having huge success with it.

Can you give me a link to the Beta tactic please? Or can anyone else...

EDIT: Actually nevermind i remember it being a classic style tactic and i'd rather push on with this and IF i come into trouble tinker with it. So far results are still going good with the tactic at the start of this thread. I just wanted aback up incase.

[ipswichjon2]

I've found some success with your tactic Dave after a bit of tweaking, the defence is still an issue, but I think with FM 2011 that's always going to be the case with any attacking formation just like in real life. Results so far with my Ipswich team, 9 signings, mainly frees with a few £500,000 bargains (Leigh Griffiths is awesome up front played 7, 6 goals, 3 assists, average rating 7.89) to supplement an okay Ipswich squad. Tweaks I've made were to suit the tactic to my players, I moved the deep lying midfielder to CM position set to box to box as this suits Leadbitter and Norris in my team best, I start with this tactic in all games then I switch tactics during the game ( I think this is important as the opposition manager seem to be more reactive to your tactics in FM2011). I often switch to a 4-1-1-3-1 with the deep lying forward dropped to AMC and set to trequartista. This is especially effective when you've got the lead as teams seem to be leaving more space in front of their back four as they push more men forward and the AMC (benachour signed on a free played 5, 3 goals, 5 assists, average rating 8.03) is getting goals and assists aplenty. Results so far after winning all my friendlies have been:

Portsmouth (A) L 2-1

Aldershot (H) W 5-1

Sheff Utd (H) W 4-0

Leicester (A) W 4-0

Wigan (H) W 3-2

Millwall (H) W 5-0

Hull City (A) W 5-1

That's 6 wins on the bounce, Portsmouth scored late on, Utaka was just too quick for my back four, 27 goals averaging nearly 4 a game. Top tactic Dave, thank you!

[Zoo Lu]

Firstly great post as ever Mr Hough. I'm going to try this on a network game I am starting as Kaiserslautern so I will gladly post the progress. Looking forward to it!

I am predicted 16th and have very little in the way of resources so it should be a good challenge for the tactic.

So here we go. I have played half the season and after a shaky start I am very impressed. Here are my results so far this season:

This is the league table as it stands:

And just in-case there are any doubters out there here is proof of my transfers and information screen that show I was predicted 16th:

I'm looking forward to any tweaks but this one is looking quite good for me!

[mglong]

having great success with this tactic after back to back promotions using an old knap tactic i switched to this tactic wining all in sight with the Gateshead follow me on twitter to see whats next thank you my fellow boro living mr hough @lon999y

[joemaddog]

I'm using your tactic at stockport after having great success with your fm10 tactic. Currently only in first season i am top of league 2 and have won all 6 of my home games scoring 15 and conceding only 2. Away i have won 3 and lost 4. Thaks for another great tactic Mr Hough.

[yoco]

Been waiting for your new tactic!

Gonna try it asap!

[ipswichjon2]

More results playing with my tweaked version:

Middlesborough (A) L 1-0

Leeds (H) W 4-1

Scunthorpe (A) W 3-2 (came back from 2-0 down

Everton (A) L 2-1

Preston (H) W 4-1

Barnsley (A) L 1-0

Burnley (H) D 2-2

QPR (A) W 3-1

Reading (H) W 2-1

Coventry (A) D 1-1

Palace (H) W 4-1

Norwich (A) W 2-0

A part from Everton/Boro I dominated these games, Barnsley result was a bad day at the office as we missed 6 CCC, record now stands at Played 19 Won 13 Drawn 2 Lost 4 scored 53 conceded 20

Still nearl 1 a game going in but scoring more than 2 a game, sitting pretty at the top of the fizzy pop championship!

[mickyt11]

Apologies, can someone explain the settings used in the Match Preparation?

[Jinksy]

My Hearts team are really starting to turn it on with this tactic, clear in 1st place ahead of Celtic and Rangers, I was doing fairly well with a previous tactic but been using this one for about 4 matches and ive enjoyed 4-0 and 6-0 wins in my last 2 matches as well as a 1-0 victory over Celtic.

Will put up pictures once ive played a good few games.

Thanks again Mr Hough for another great tactic!

[Steve Thorpe]

More results playing with my tweaked version:

Middlesborough (A) L 1-0

Leeds (H) W 4-1

Scunthorpe (A) W 3-2 (came back from 2-0 down

Everton (A) L 2-1

Preston (H) W 4-1

Barnsley (A) L 1-0

Burnley (H) D 2-2

QPR (A) W 3-1

Reading (H) W 2-1

Coventry (A) D 1-1

Palace (H) W 4-1

Norwich (A) W 2-0

A part from Everton/Boro I dominated these games, Barnsley result was a bad day at the office as we missed 6 CCC, record now stands at Played 19 Won 13 Drawn 2 Lost 4 scored 53 conceded 20

Still nearl 1 a game going in but scoring more than 2 a game, sitting pretty at the top of the fizzy pop championship!

Could you upload your tweaked tactic IpswichJon?

[Guest]

just done the double with arsenal , fa cup and league champions

[Guest]

Apologies, can someone explain the settings used in the Match Preparation?

set it to defensive positioning

[Tanon]

Those are my results in second season:

http://img695.imageshack.us/f/26687672.jpg/

Look how many goals im losing;/ In every game;/ And i have good defenders;/

Mby someone have some idea what can i change in this tactic to improve that?

I will be pleased:)

[ipswichjon2]

Could you upload your tweaked tactic IpswichJon?

Here you go, like I said earlier I've only changed 2 things, dm to cm box to box for the 4-1-1-2-2 and dropping the deep lying striker to trequartista for 4-1-1-3-1 and selecting him as a playmaker:

4-1-1-3-1

http://www.filefront.com/17592764/Mr Hough 4-1-1-3-1 Fm11.1 Tactic tweak (Ipswich, Aug 2010).tac

4-1-1-2-2

http://www.filefront.com/17592776/Mr Hough 4-1-1-2-2 Fm11.1 Tactic tweak (Ipswich, Aug 2010).tac

Ultimately any success I'm having is down to the excellent work from Mr Hough!

[Zoo Lu]

Well the season is now done (thanks to a school snow day but I'm a teacher not a pupil!). The second half to the season didn't really pan out as well as the first and I struggled to get goals for much of it. The January break really didn't help me.

However its still a positive story as after being predicted 16th I ended up 9th which I am pleased with (and received a healthy amount of prize money for too!). Here is the final league table:

And the run in fixtures (as you can see not hugely successful!):

Overall I think having looked at the stats from my games it is very important that I get at least 1 better striker because mine can't finish for toffee and my top scorer is only on loan. Hopefully the prize money might help me out in the summer. The tactic for me seems to struggle to keep clean sheets of any kind however the goals I am conceding are quite often long range screamers which is incredibly frustrating. Those games where I get out done in possession tend to lead to the opposition having a HUGE proportion of long range shots which is obviously a positive for the tactic but I just need to start converting my own chances.

So overall a great start and a work in progress. Great stuff as always Mr Hough!

[Mr Hough]

I am putting all my effort into a 4-5-1 tactic, I have seen the opposition play this way loads of times and think that this way is the way to go in FM11.

[Ernest166]

I am putting all my effort into a 4-5-1 tactic, I have seen the opposition play this way loads of times and think that this way is the way to go in FM11.

What kind of 4-5-1 would that be Dave ? The Flat form ?

[ipswichjon2]

Update on my results with the tweaked version:

Cardiff (H) D 1-1

Doncaster (A) W 2-0

Swansea (H) W 3-1

Derby (A) D 2-2

Watford (H) D 1-1

Forest (A) D 1-1

Bit disappointed with the run of draws but a point away is never a bad result and I absolutely battered Watford but my strikers were off form on the day.

Played 25 Won 15 Drawn 6 Lost 4 scored 63 conceded 26

Dave, it was interesting watching the review of the Barcelona game on Sky following their 5-0 drubbing of Real Madrid, they showed that they play 4-5-1 which is in effect a 2-3-4-1 with the full backs playing level with Busquets and a bank of 4 attacking midfielders behind one withdrawn free role striker. Obviously Barca are really fluid and are all quality players, but what was really interesting was the way Busquets formed a back 3 when they lost possession allowing the full backs time to retreat and the midfield and forward five to press the ball high up. 4-5-1 might work like this if you have a holding player who you can get to drop deep like a third CB and the rest of the midfield are set to high pressing? i'd guess you'd need high team work / work rate players of high quality for this to work, (not going to happen at Ipswich for a few seasons).