Explanation of the Impact of Player...DISCUSSION THREAD *Updated for FM11*

[Cleon]

Please use this thread for any discussions relating to this thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11*

I've added the first few bits and will be updating a lot more in the coming weeks. The new stuff I post will highlight how I've set up to play FM11 and I will be keeping it attribute related and comparing why someone is more suites to play a certain style compared to another player. I'll be discussing all attributes in a lot more depth and explaining how they linked together and what kind of impact they have on everything to do with tactics

I'll also show you how I created a tactic based on attributes

Hope you enjoy the thread:thup:

[Cleon]

Positioning will help put himself between the ball and player and off the ball will help with;

A player’s movement without the ball. Similar to Anticipation, this is how well a player, particularly attacking ones, can assess a situation and then move off the ball, making themselves available to receive a pass in a dangerous position.

What I should have done (and is a mistake on my part) is to name them both

[ArcaneX]

Great work Cleon, really helped me understand the attributes much better

[Coentrao]

Very interesting as always Cleon.

I never thought of decisions as an important attribute for strikers i've always thought it as a midfield'ish attribute and only looked for it when i'm trying to sign a Deep Lying/Creative Striker but it makes sense that it's also important for the striker to choose the right finish.

Anticipation and Positioning are always the two first attributes that i look for my defenders specially if they are somewhat slow i feel like those two attributes compensate a lot, and anticipation for me is the vital attribute for every single position, having clever players just feels right.

And when i'm on the stage of the game where i'm signing mostly regens, i won't sign anyone without determination and workrate of at least 14,15.. i would add Teamwork to that but for certain positions(wingers mostly) in my experience they become really hard to find.

Something that still confuses me it's creativity, not what it does but just how much is needed, for instance sometimes i'll find a good young DM that has pretty much every attribute i need but only a Creativity of 10, now my DM's are normally only used to play simple passes and sometimes a Long Ball but i'm always in doubt to what minimum i should aim for them to easily spot all the easy passes in front of them without hesitating and losing possession if that makes sense.

[Cleon]

The minimum depends on you really. I tend to find someone with more good stats than bad is fine. You'll never find someone who ticks all the boxes unless you are a big club or lucky. Just go for someone who is better at most things.

[januszp]

Cleon,

How did you figure all this out? Is it purely from the descriptions of the attributes? Do you have some way of checking which attribute gets checked when?

I'll give an example of why I'm asking this. Let's take the Warnock (SW) vs. Wright-Phillips (SWP) situation - the first two screen shots. You write that "before anything happened", SW used his positioning to get in the right place to challenge SWP. However, even from the description of the positioning attribute it seems clear that probably what happened first is that SW's anticipation got checked first, and once he passed this check, then positioning came into play (or who knows? Maybe a combination of positioning and anticipation got checked. I don't know. Do you? If so, how?). Similarly, once SW got there, you highlighted anticipation, composure, determination and work rate. Again, how do you know? Work rate seems like an attribute that could have even been the first one to be checked (i.e. a lazy player would never have acted, even if he correctly anticipated and had the ability to position himself). It could also not be checked at all, since a left defender covering a right winger seems like pretty basic behavior - no need to work extra hard. Why is composure there? Are you in fact sure that it gets used during a challenge in mid-field? Perhaps it is, but how do you know? Same with determination. It could, for example, be used when challenging for a header against a bigger opponent, but it could also be used in this situation - or it could not be used at all. The description of determination provided is so vague that it could be the most often-checked attribute, or the attribute that only gets checked when your side go a goal down.

Now, I'm not saying that you are actually wrong in anything that you have written. I am simply asking for the reasons why you believe that what you wrote is correct.

[Cleon]

After working on FM for the last 12 years you kind of learn how the attributes work and you can distinguish which ones are working and which aren't. It's not easy to figure out or learn how they work it takes a lot of time watching thousands of FM games over and over. I'm pretty sure all the attributes I've mentioned were used. Once you know what a certain attribute does and see it working in game its a lot easier to understand. Hence why I've done this thread.

[januszp]

Cleon,

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure if I made myself clear, so I'll try again. I'll stay with the example you used, SW vs SWP:

1. one possibility is that positioning got checked first, then anticipation, and then acceleration, composure, work rate etc.

2. another possibility is that anticipation got checked first, then, for example, work rate, then positioning, then acceleration etc. etc.

3. another possibility is that, say, decisions got checked first, then anticipation (or work rate), then positioning etc. etc. etc.

4. ... and so on ad infinitum [given the number of possible permutations of attributes]

Now, if you have a player that is pretty good at all of the above stats, then it is in fact very difficult to figure out what stats get checked when, right? In fact, it seems to me to be impossible to figure it out unless you actually have access to the source code, because there are so many attributes that potentially could come into play. In very few occasions we are given clues (e.g. when commentators say "he showed great composure there") but for the most part, especially the mental attributes are a mystery.

Your detailed thread gives an actual order of checking of attributes, as well as a pretty exhaustive list of attributes that get checked in a given situation. I guess I just don't see how you can, with any confidence, write it out like that - unless "working on FM for the last 12 years" means that you have access to game code, and actually *know* what happens. For example - are you in any way sure that SW did NOT have to pass a work rate check before he even used his acceleration to get next to SWP? Based on your description, work rate came into play later, but how do you know?

Again, I want to stress - I am not trying to attack you personally or disparage your work, I just want to know how concrete is the basis for your conclusions.

[Cleon]

Cleon,

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure if I made myself clear, so I'll try again. I'll stay with the example you used, SW vs SWP:

1. one possibility is that positioning got checked first, then anticipation, and then acceleration, composure, work rate etc.

2. another possibility is that anticipation got checked first, then, for example, work rate, then positioning, then acceleration etc. etc.

3. another possibility is that, say, decisions got checked first, then anticipation (or work rate), then positioning etc. etc. etc.

4. ... and so on ad infinitum [given the number of possible permutations of attributes]

Now, if you have a player that is pretty good at all of the above stats, then it is in fact very difficult to figure out what stats get checked when, right? In fact, it seems to me to be impossible to figure it out unless you actually have access to the source code, because there are so many attributes that potentially could come into play. In very few occasions we are given clues (e.g. when commentators say "he showed great composure there") but for the most part, especially the mental attributes are a mystery.

Even if somone is good all round it's still easy to break the move down and determine roughly which stats came into play and when. If you watch the same move over and over it becomes clear how it happened and which attributes was used. It's all about watching the game closely until you have a good enough understanding of the attributes and what they actually do in a game. Then once you know what to look for, it becomes a lot easier.

Your detailed thread gives an actual order of checking of attributes, as well as a pretty exhaustive list of attributes that get checked in a given situation. I guess I just don't see how you can, with any confidence, write it out like that - unless "working on FM for the last 12 years" means that you have access to game code, and actually *know* what happens

I don't have access to any hidden code or anything, its just comes from watching games and learning what each attribute did over a certain amount of years. Once you know the impact they have, then it becomes a lot more clear and is easily spotted in a game. I understand the match engine very well so that gives you a massive advantage.

For example - are you in any way sure that SW did NOT have to pass a work rate check before he even used his acceleration to get next to SWP? Based on your description, work rate came into play later, but how do you know?

Again, I want to stress - I am not trying to attack you personally or disparage your work, I just want to know how concrete is the basis for your conclusions.

You can tell because of what happened in the move. Once you understand the attributes and what they actually do and how they translate in a match then its easy to see. I'm 500% sure I'm right, I'd even bet my business on it

It probably seems impossible to believe for you, because you don't know the match engine as good as I do, or someone like wwfan. I pay attention to detail and have watched thousands of games for the full 90 minutes. I've experimented with every single tactical instruction, setting and attribute. It's not someone you just pick up over night. It took a lot of years of trial and error to learn how the ME works. But once you understand it, the whole way you play the game changes and you look at things differently.

Plus I discussed it with several other people who have an excellent understanding of the game and without me telling them what I thought, they described the move exactly as I did. Sfraser and Heathxx were all in agreement and said the same things as I'd already wrote. It's hard to explain how you know something that is so diffcicult to understand, I can't find the right words to explain to you...lol

[mantralux]

I just want to know how concrete is the basis for your conclusions.

Everything is speculation when it comes to fan-made content. Sometimes it's speculation based on confirmed facts, sometimes it's speculation based on interpretation of the game. Even the purest of facts will therefor always be questioned, unless a developer confirms it 100%. Even then you would have people questioning it.

[Cleon]

Nothing in here is speculation, it's 100% true. Why are people always so sceptic and think people 'guess' what something does. We are just going round in circles here, if you don't want to believe what I wrote is true or struggle to understand just how then thats fine just stay out of the thread and discussion because it won't really be for you. And I don't feel like defending the whole concept of the thread all the time as it takes away the actual purpose of this thread and that is to help people understand exactly how the game works. Plus people get really confused as to what attributes actually do in a game and don't really understand them properly. This thread is to help people get a better understand of the ME and attributes and show them how they work together.

As for needing a devloper to confirm whats written that's not true in all cases, however how do you think I know so much about the ME? I've spoke to Paulc many, many times at great lengths discussing the impact of tactics and all their settings and attributes over the last 10+ years.

If you want to disagree or claim I'm specualting thats fine but atleast back it up by showing me proof of how you came to that conclusion, it makes for a better discussion rather than just making an 'assumption' based on nothing without make a good argument for yourself

[mantralux]

Nothing in here is speculation, it's 100% true. Why are people always so sceptic and think people 'guess' what something does. We are just going round in circles here, if you don't want to believe what I wrote is true or struggle to understand just how then thats fine just stay out of the thread and discussion because it won't really be for you. And I don't feel like defending the whole concept of the thread all the time as it takes away the actual purpose of this thread and that is to help people understand exactly how the game works. Plus people get really confused as to what attributes actually do in a game and don't really understand them properly. This thread is to help people get a better understand of the ME and attributes and show them how they work together.

As for needing a devloper to confirm whats written that's not true in all cases, however how do you think I know so much about the ME? I've spoke to Paulc many, many times at great lengths discussing the impact of tactics and all their settings and attributes over the last 10+ years.

If you want to disagree or claim I'm specualting thats fine but atleast back it up by showing me proof of how you came to that conclusion, it makes for a better discussion rather than just making an 'assumption' based on nothing without make a good argument for yourself

If that was directed at me, you're taking my post completely the wrong way.

[franni]

Maybe u could make a pdf. of this nice guide? :-)

[bafknight]

Sorry, I can't find the PKM file. Show me plz. Thank for your great Threat.

[noikeee]

Cleon I posted this on the old thread but appears you missed it.. I have some doubts about some attributes:

* Agility - i thought this was an essential attribute for goalkeepers (tied-in to reflexes), but you only mention it vaguely?

* Concentration - I'm surprised to find concentration talked about in the analysis of an attacking build-up. I guess it makes some sense, but I was under the impression that it was only about avoiding brain-fades defensively?

* Technique - Might have been on some older FM versions, before first touch was introduced as an attribute, but I'm pretty certain that technique was mostly about controlling the ball at speed. Not necessarily when dribbling an opponent player (because there's already an attribute for that), but more for when a player has some space ahead of him and he wants to run onto it. A winger lacking technique might accidentally let the ball run past the byline, for example. I wasn't aware it was also about performing difficult passes with precision?

* Flair - I'm pretty certain this is more about the ability to think of unusual, eccentric attacking solutions. And by that I mean backheel passes, chips over the keeper, first time/volley/acrobatic shots, passes/crosses/shots with the outside of the foot, curled shots, shots from impossible angles, etc... Think Matthew Le Tissier as the role model for a player with 20 at flair... It differs from creativity because creativity is more about seeing difficult passing lines for through balls - Xavi and Sneijder are better examples for outstanding players at creativity, but they're not that great in terms of flair.

Now I reckon I have nowhere near the same experience of looking at the match engine as you seem to have, so that's why I'm curious about your opinion...

[Cleon]

Agility - i thought this was an essential attribute for goalkeepers (tied-in to reflexes), but you only mention it vaguely?

It is, but I haven't gone into great detail yet I've just outlined the basics. Plus I didn't really discuss goalkeepers but I am expanding on the attributes. I just wanted to give people a quick overview of what they did. Once I start showing ingame footage and examples things will become a lot clearer.

Concentration - I'm surprised to find concentration talked about in the analysis of an attacking build-up. I guess it makes some sense, but I was under the impression that it was only about avoiding brain-fades defensively?

Concentration is a factor throughout the game, whether you be defending of attacking. But someone who has a lack of concentration while in a defensive position can be a lot more costly.

Technique - Might have been on some older FM versions, before first touch was introduced as an attribute, but I'm pretty certain that technique was mostly about controlling the ball at speed. Not necessarily when dribbling an opponent player (because there's already an attribute for that), but more for when a player has some space ahead of him and he wants to run onto it. A winger lacking technique might accidentally let the ball run past the byline, for example. I wasn't aware it was also about performing difficult passes with precision?

It does both, its a very influential attribute. Technique is vital for someone who will see a lot of the ball if you want him to be useful.

* Flair - I'm pretty certain this is more about the ability to think of unusual, eccentric attacking solutions. And by that I mean backheel passes, chips over the keeper, first time/volley/acrobatic shots, passes/crosses/shots with the outside of the foot, curled shots, shots from impossible angles, etc... Think Matthew Le Tissier as the role model for a player with 20 at flair... It differs from creativity because creativity is more about seeing difficult passing lines for through balls - Xavi and Sneijder are better examples for outstanding players at creativity, but they're not that great in terms of flair.

In terms of FM, flair and creativity go hand in hand. Flair is basically a players natural talent and creativity is how he uses it.

Hope that helps, if you need to ask further questions feel free, I'll try and answer them when I get a moment

I'll be updating the thread either today or tomorrow too

[higgins]

In terms of FM, flair and creativity go hand in hand. Flair is basically a players natural talent and creativity is how he uses it.

Hope that helps, if you need to ask further questions feel free, I'll try and answer them when I get a moment

I'll be updating the thread either today or tomorrow too

Interesting definition, so basically if a player has got high flair attribute but low creativity, he will be more prone to waste his talent, are you saying that?

If it is so, than why do the developers consider flair as a mental attribute and not a technical one?

[Cleon]

Interesting definition, so basically if a player has got high flair attribute but low creativity, he will be more prone to waste his talent, are you saying that?

If it is so, than why do the developers consider flair as a mental attribute and not a technical one?

Yes he could be more prone to wasting it. Maybe wasting is the wrong word but you get my drift.

As for why its a mental attribute probably because technical attributes are how well a player can do certain things i.e passing, mental ones cover everything. Mental attributes are things that are used all the time.

[higgins]

I see your point, I just have some doubts with the equation flair=natural talent, cause for example a defender could be outstanding and so very talented even with a low flair.

I think flair=talent to perform highly technical moves , if you get what I mean, so more needed by attacking players.

[Cleon]

Talent to perform highly technical moves is natural talent though. That's why I said think of flair as natural talent. It was just an easy way of explaining how it differs from creativity in relation to the question what was asked. I was just using it as an example for what noikeee asked. I think you've took my comments the wrong way

If someone has low flair that doesn't mean their a bad player no.

[higgins]

Talent to perform highly technical moves is natural talent though. That's why I said think of flair as natural talent. It was just an easy way of explaining how it differs from creativity in relation to the question what was asked. I was just using it as an example for what noikeee asked. I think you've took my comments the wrong way

If someone has low flair that doesn't mean their a bad player no.

Ok then, thanks for your answer, this would explain why flair does not improve if trained.

[noikeee]

I understand your definition of flair Cleon, and I guess that's how it works in the match engine but it still sounds quite weird to me. I don't really like the idea of having in-game generic attributes that mean nothing in particular and add to every attacking decision and technical gesture - like technique, creativity and flair by your definitions. The way I had thought about them made more sense...

In fact in the past creativity was named "vision" in the editor! So at a point it must've meant the ability for seeing passing lines and space. When did this change and became a general ability to perform attacking moves?

[Cleon]

I understand your definition of flair Cleon, and I guess that's how it works in the match engine but it still sounds quite weird to me. I don't really like the idea of having in-game generic attributes that mean nothing in particular and add to every attacking decision and technical gesture - like technique, creativity and flair by your definitions. The way I had thought about them made more sense...

In fact in the past creativity was named "vision" in the editor! So at a point it must've meant the ability for seeing passing lines and space. When did this change and became a general ability to perform attacking moves?

Eh? it still means that...I think you've misunderstood or read something wrong. I've never said it doesn't mean that.

[noikeee]

Then I'm not understanding the relationship between creativity with flair.

[Cleon]

Creativity;

This refers to a player’s vision and ability to see a potential opening, not necessarily exploit it. A player might be able to see something to take advantage of but also requires the technical proficiency to pull it off

Flair;

A natural talent for the creative and occasional unpredictability. A player with a lot of flair will be one of the key attacking components in any team but at the same time may need tactical restraint to get the best out of him. Flair and Creativity work well together.

I'm not sure what you don't understand though, sorry. I'll try and help if I can but what confusion is it you have?

[Jenko_EFC]

Creativity is, in my opinion, his vision to see passes and dribbling space and even areas of the goal. Anticipation is how he anticipates movement of players, the opposition and the ball. Teamwork, Flair and Decisions define which pass he chooses or where he dribbles or where he shoots.

With high teamwork, he'll make passes that are easy for the player he is passing to to receive the ball or move into space where he can link-up with teammates. If his Flair is high, he'll go for a 'Flamboyant' option like a dribble past an opponent, a backheel or a lobbed shot. If his decisions are high, he'll pass the to the most in-space and available player and dribble into situations where he is in more space rather than into space that benefits the team sometimes.

[Romanista1994]

Then I'm not understanding the relationship between creativity with flair.

Isn't Creativity the ability to see options and Flair the drive (or lack of) to choose the most flamboyant of those options?

I'd like to add that I love this thread Cleon, especially since it has changed my way of choosing players immensely and helped me get much better performances using players who are not stars in terms of CA/PA to their full abilities.

[Cleon]

Creativity is, in my opinion, his vision to see passes and dribbling space and even areas of the goal. Anticipation is how he anticipates movement of players, the opposition and the ball. Teamwork, Flair and Decisions define which pass he chooses or where he dribbles or where he shoots.

With high teamwork, he'll make passes that are easy for the player he is passing to to receive the ball or move into space where he can link-up with teammates. If his Flair is high, he'll go for a 'Flamboyant' option like a dribble past an opponent, a backheel or a lobbed shot. If his decisions are high, he'll pass the to the most in-space and available player and dribble into situations where he is in more space rather than into space that benefits the team sometimes.

Aye spot on. I think people get confused because for every action someone makes 15 or so different attributes come into play and that confuses people. Especially when some are very simliar to each other.

I'd like to add that I love this thread Cleon, especially since it has changed my way of choosing players immensely and helped me get much better performances using players who are not stars in terms of CA/PA to their full abilities

Cheers for the nice words

[heathxxx]

Would just like to add that understanding more about player attributes, it's possible to get the most out of any tactic. Yes, even the default Tactics Creator selections.

Using players who are suitable, have the attributes suitable for the role you're asking of them (most of which are now highlighted with the TC), they'll do the job well and help the tactic to work properly.

People can tweak tactics to the n'th degree, but the chances are, they won't work unless you're using players with suitable attributes.

As a casing point, we see what are claimed to be "super" tactics posted regularly on these forums. The problem is, they're not so "super" for everyone that tries them. Yet however, I'm using a very simple and basic attacking 4-4-2, with default settings through the Tactics Creator and have won 10/10 competitive matches so far. There's no exploits or save/reloads in action here, just making sure that I have players in each position and role with the right attributes.

Of course, we can also take advantage of additional player attributes with more advanced instructions, if we appreciate and understand what an attribute does, or how it works in conjunction with another. That's when you can make a good player great, or an average seeming tactic, outstanding.

Threads like Cleon's help to highlight how attributes work together and how they are used in tactical settings and match situations. Threads like his are far more valuable, in my opinion, than anything that claims to be a wonder tactic.

[Cleon]

Wait until I post up the effect of player instructions, it starts getting complicated then;)

[Jenko_EFC]

You may know what I do and adjust every game depending on opposition heath. I play with Everton and have made an incredible start to the season in my first proper save of '11with 3/3 wins including a win over Arsenal. Well, the reason I'm successful so far is because when I predict their Starting Lineup, I can see their attributes and what are their strengths and weaknesses. This is a really good thing to do with Everton who have a host of different options to choose from.

I look closely at my opponents attributes and knowing which of your players fit the bill to mark them out of the game or moving into dangerous space because of their poor Positioning and Anticipation so I use Cahill with his good Anticipation and Off The Ball for example.

So I look at the opposition player's attributes before deciding who plays which determines their intructions. It is a fun and successful way of playing but unfortunately time consuming; I only manage to get on FM about 3 times a week and 2 are spent looking at the opponent and making notes in Notepad rather than playing the game faster. It takes like 2 weeks to do a month game-time usually so by '12 comes out, I'll only be about 2-3 years into my save.

[heathxxx]

Sounds very familiar Jenko

This year though, I'm determined to try a more simplistic approach. I would actually like to try and get 10+ seasons out of a save.

That said though, with attention to detail, especially when it comes to looking at attributes of your players and your opponents, then be a little cute tactically, there's no reason why you can't go unbeaten for a season... there really isn't. Out-foxing the AI isn't as difficult as people think. After all, the AI doesn't have the wealth of choices or brain-power that we do... well, some of us...

Wait until I post up the effect of player instructions, it starts getting complicated then

Cleon, sometimes I think you have far too much time on your hands. Have to praise your patience in explaining some of these intricacies though. Although I understand them, I often find it difficult to describe certain aspects of the game in as much detail as they often warrant.

I've had saves I've greatly enjoyed that have taken months of real time to play, yet only amounted to a season or two at most. Rarely, if at all, did I lose matches in those saves. I'm also one of those people who would pause matches and take stock of what's happening.

[higgins]

As a casing point, we see what are claimed to be "super" tactics posted regularly on these forums. The problem is, they're not so "super" for everyone that tries them.

Very true, you can't build a decent tactic without understanding what kind of players could valorize that particular tactic, making a good asset outstanding, or undermine it.

This is why this thread is excellent.

[volharding]

Hello Cleon,

Will there be more information soon ?

[Cleon]

Yeah sorry for lack of info recently been catching up with things before the festive period. I will have something up shortly

[Todor032]

Didn't play FM for quite some time and when I came back looking to refresh my FM knowledge, I found this! Greatest thread ever! Gratz to Cleon and KUTGW!

[CaptainPlanet]

Would two players, both with 10 acceleration but one with 10 pace and the other with 20 pace, both reach pace speed 10 at the same time? I.e. is acceleration direectly linked to pace or is it a static increase regardless of the pace cap.

[ObaMartins09]

Don't think so. Acceleration determines how quickly the player reaches top speed. So they will both reach their top speed (20 and 10) at the same time.

[Cleon]

Don't think so. Acceleration determines how quickly the player reaches top speed. So they will both reach their top speed (20 and 10) at the same time.

Pretty much this yeah. Plus depending on the situation other stats might come into play. Like balance, bravery, determination, workrate.

[CaptainPlanet]

So acceleration on its own isn't comparable between two players. As someone with a lower acceleration and higher pace will actually accelerate faster.

That's a pity.

[Cleon]

Someone with a low acceleration lets say 10 won't reach his top speed (pace) as fast as someone with 13 for acceleration. Regardless of what someones pace is.

[Ampalaea4]

Hello Cleon.. really great post, it made me to change my whole filters and actually have success in my team.I want to ask about the attribute decisions and the preferred moves.

I ll try to express it the best I can cause English is not my native language so lets go..

Decision make the player chose the best option, for example after he spots x passes through his anticipation - creativity then the decision will make him chose the right pass for his team.I understand this.

A player with a good decision can he understand what he can or what he cannot do?For example a bad dribbler with high decision will do less dribbles than a bad dribbler with low decision?

A striker that will find himself in a tet a tet and has not a very good composure - finishing but he has good technique and high decision, will he try to shoot with power instead of place his shot?

or a striker with bad composure and high decision will try to shot with power when under pressure?

I did some tests with a real time editor to see how players react to events, and I see that even my striker had High decision (19 or 20), he did extremely well after I taught him to place his shots, while he already should do this cause of his high decision... he also was good in finishing - composure

What the impact of preferred moves in decisions?Is it better for a player with High Decision to not have any PPM because will limit his gameplay?

[CaptainPlanet]

I'm confused.

a) Acc 10 Pace 10

b) Acc 10 Pace 20

c) Acc 5 Pace 20

d) Acc 20 Pace 5

In which order do the above players accelerate fastest up to pace speed 5?

[macca72]

I think it would work like the below..

Player "d" will get to his top speed the quickest, but because his pace is so low, he's unlikely to win any race longer than 5-10 yards.

Player "c" will take a while to reach his top speed, but when he does, he won't be caught.

Player "b" is probably the "best" player of the above. He'll lose a race over 5-10 yards to player "d", but after that he's away.

Player "a" is average, he'll get to his top pace quick enough, but is unlikely to win any long term sprints.

[Ampalaea4]

I'm confused.

a) Acc 10 Pace 10

b) Acc 10 Pace 20

c) Acc 5 Pace 20

d) Acc 20 Pace 5

In which order do the above players accelerate fastest up to pace speed 5?

Well I ll explain with my example

a)Acc 10 pace 20

b)Acc 20 pace 10

Who is going to get first the pace 5...

pace 5 is the 25% of max pace player "a" can have and 50% of max pace player "b" can have

but player b have double acceleration than player a

so the answer here is that both will reach pace 5 in the same time..

[macca72]

Well I ll explain with my example

a)Acc 10 pace 20

b)Acc 20 pace 10

Who is going to get first the pace 5...

pace 5 is the 25% of max pace player "a" can have and 50% of max pace player "b" can have

but player b have double acceleration than player a

so the answer here is that both will reach pace 5 in the same time..

Interesting, I wouldn't have said that....

Maybe I'm thinking in too black and white terms, but my betting would be the guy with the 20 acc (player "b") will get to pace "5" twice as fast as player "a", but will quickly be caught and overtaken. It's why i always look for acceleration as an overriding factor when i'm finding DC's. I don't anticipate them having to have many long distance races, but want them to be quick over 10-15yds..

But then again, maybe that's why i'm no good !!

[Cleon]

I think it would work like the below..

Player "d" will get to his top speed the quickest, but because his pace is so low, he's unlikely to win any race longer than 5-10 yards.

Player "c" will take a while to reach his top speed, but when he does, he won't be caught.

Player "b" is probably the "best" player of the above. He'll lose a race over 5-10 yards to player "d", but after that he's away.

Player "a" is average, he'll get to his top pace quick enough, but is unlikely to win any long term sprints.

Indeed this is how acceleration works.

Acceleration is just how fast someone can reach their top speed (pace). So the highest stat should always get there first (obviously other stats factor like bravery, balance etc depending on the situation) if it was a straight race over a short distance. If it's a long distance race then pace is the key stat and not acceleration.

Interesting, I wouldn't have said that....

Maybe I'm thinking in too black and white terms, but my betting would be the guy with the 20 acc (player "b") will get to pace "5" twice as fast as player "a", but will quickly be caught and overtaken. It's why i always look for acceleration as an overriding factor when i'm finding DC's. I don't anticipate them having to have many long distance races, but want them to be quick over 10-15yds..

But then again, maybe that's why i'm no good !!

That is exactly what you should do with defenders. You are doing it right Macca

[CaptainPlanet]

Appreciate the responses but don't feel I have an answer to the question I'm asking.

Acceleration is either a percentage of pace, or it's a fixed stepped incriment.

[macca72]

CaptainPlanet, from Cleon confirming my thoughts...

Acceleration is how fast a player reaches his top speed, it isn't calculated from Pace. In the race to "Pace 5" example, (all other things being equal regarding fitness etc...) the player with the highest acceleration will win the race to "Pace 5".

Hope this helps:thup:

[Cleon]

Its simple, its just how quick someone reaches his top speed from a stand still position. So higher the acceleration the faster he'll reach it. If it was fixed there would be no need to have an acceleration stat in the game ranging from 1-20. It's not a percentage of someones pace it just reflects how quickly a player sets off from standing still. Once a player reaches his top speed how long he can maintain that comes down to natural fitness, stamina and his condition.