Jenko_EFC Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hows that going, are you finding it easy to see which attributes are involved in a certain move? It can be hard at first but becomes much easier once you can spot for example off the ball or creativity. I've been doing it for a while, probably since this thread came out and it really opened my eyes but then stopped, didn't play much FM and left the save but recently got my appetite back for it and it's becoming really good, I can see the effect of stuff like Teamwork, Positioning by watching players with and without high values for it. It was difficult at first definitely, I always knew the effect of Finishing for example but never really looked at how Anticipation and Off The Ball effect the move. Learning curve definitely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 I've been doing it for a while, probably since this thread came out and it really opened my eyes but then stopped, didn't play much FM and left the save but recently got my appetite back for it and it's becoming really good, I can see the effect of stuff like Teamwork, Positioning by watching players with and without high values for it. It was difficult at first definitely, I always knew the effect of Finishing for example but never really looked at how Anticipation and Off The Ball effect the move. Learning curve definitely. Great I'm glad your having enjoyment spotting such things If you ever get any questions just fire away, happy to help if I can Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanista1994 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I've been doing it for a while, probably since this thread came out and it really opened my eyes but then stopped, didn't play much FM and left the save but recently got my appetite back for it and it's becoming really good, I can see the effect of stuff like Teamwork, Positioning by watching players with and without high values for it. It was difficult at first definitely, I always knew the effect of Finishing for example but never really looked at how Anticipation and Off The Ball effect the move. Learning curve definitely. Same here (well, up to a certain point, I still have difficulty in spotting the subtleties of teamwork for example), including the watching all of the matches fully in 2d. Its also very nice to see young players developing and evolving their skillsets this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenko_EFC Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Same here (well, up to a certain point, I still have difficulty in spotting the subtleties of teamwork for example), including the watching all of the matches fully in 2d. Its also very nice to see young players developing and evolving their skillsets this way. A player I'm loving watching at the moment is Gabriel Obertan! Absolutely terrible Mentals but he is quick, great dribbler and has extremely high Flair (18) so giving him the odd appearance and letting him do whatever he wants is a great way to see Flair in action and watching his potential! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanista1994 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 A player I'm loving watching at the moment is Gabriel Obertan! Absolutely terrible Mentals but he is quick, great dribbler and has extremely high Flair (18) so giving him the odd appearance and letting him do whatever he wants is a great way to see Flair in action and watching his potential! I have a similar case with a youth player AMC who has great technicals good physicals and very unbalanced mental attributes (Creativity, Anticipation 17, Teamwork 19 counterbalanced by Off The Ball and Composure 10). So watching him has shown me quite a lot about which attributes affect which move. I can't think of any other players that have "taught" me so much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Oh my god!!!!! My saved game is corrupt wtf, keep crashing constant. I think it's the tier 11 league thing that's made it crash. ****. Hmm need to sort something now though I'd started posting things up... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenko_EFC Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Damn! Do you keep older versions of the savegame? I have a 3 file rolling save thing, I assume you don't? I only do it because of bad experiences in the past (haven't we all ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Damn! Do you keep older versions of the savegame? I have a 3 file rolling save thing, I assume you don't? I only do it because of bad experiences in the past (haven't we all ). I might have the saved game on a memory stick somewhere I hope. When I'm on laptop I have rolling save because of beta testing, when on other machine I don't Grrrrrrrrrrr I'll sort something though. Think I might have a plan... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Cleon, which version of Windows are you on? (If it's a Mac then please disregard this). If it's Vista / 7 then you can right click your save game, select Properties and then choose the Previous Versions tab. Most files will have at least one prior version saved by Windows. This might work on XP, too, not too sure. I saved a friend's FM save game doing this the other week and it earned me a pint or five... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pndc Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Regarding your tactics and fine tuning it for the starting eleven before each game, i.e. roles, width, tempo and d-line. Wouldn't that mean that the team does not get used a particular tactic, illustrated by the bars in pre-match preparation not getting completely filled for the "current" tactic chosen? And wouldn't this, in SFrasers terminology, influence the calculations done on the attributes of players negatively? I see your rationale for doing what you do, but I just thought that it might actually negatively influence the players ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 The best thing I could do was to start again with a different team. Which is what I've done, I've started to upload somethings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 4-2-3-1, 4-2-3-1 Sorry, bit over excited then. Looking forward to seeing how this pans out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 4-2-3-1, 4-2-3-1 Sorry, bit over excited then. Looking forward to seeing how this pans out... Thought you'd enjoy this subject. I'll try and get the AMC bit done as soon as for you. It all should be up by tomorrow at some point anyway. 56 goals from both AMC's combined Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Thought you'd enjoy this subject. I'll try and get the AMC bit done as soon as for you. It all should be up by tomorrow at some point anyway. 56 goals from both AMC's combined Nice:), I'm also getting into seeing how the 2 MC's work in combination. Mostly you see one Defensive and one Support, I think TBH has done one this year with 2 supporting midfielders. Did you do much "tweaking" throughout the season ? Spurs are obviosuly a good side, but your season looks sensational. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hey Cleon. I'm looking forward to see the rest. Excellent season. Why did you opt for "stand off more" ? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Nice:), I'm also getting into seeing how the 2 MC's work in combination. Mostly you see one Defensive and one Support, I think TBH has done one this year with 2 supporting midfielders.Did you do much "tweaking" throughout the season ? Spurs are obviosuly a good side, but your season looks sensational. I did tweak a lot but that was the MC's and AML position as I wasn't getting the best out of them to begin with. But around xmas time it all clicked and I hardly had to do anything. I'm using deep lying playmaker MLC and a MRC who is a ball winning midfiedler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hey Cleon. I'm looking forward to see the rest. Excellent season. Why did you opt for "stand off more" ? Cheers I didn't want player's to be reckless, it's important I keep the game fluid at all times even when defending and winning the ball back. It helps keep the shape and balance right through the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Can't wait to see the rest Cleon! Some of your changes are staring me in the face, but there aren't actually that many huge differences as of yet. I guess I'll see more with the individuals. One thing I want to discuss is why I chose to stick with 'counter attack' on 'yes' at all times, but I'll happily wait for your comments if you plan on mentioning it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Can't wait to see the rest Cleon!Some of your changes are staring me in the face, but there aren't actually that many huge differences as of yet. I guess I'll see more with the individuals. One thing I want to discuss is why I chose to stick with 'counter attack' on 'yes' at all times, but I'll happily wait for your comments if you plan on mentioning it? Go for it I change counter attacking on and off depending on who I play against. So be interested to see why you use it constant. I can kind of guess why though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Well. My understanding is that it basically sets the team up to always be ready to spring forward en masse when the opportunity arises. The D line drops back, most of the front 6 rush forward and balls are pinged directly forward, with the pace of Lennon, Bale and JD and the pin point passing of the likes of THudd to supply them I find I score a lot in these kind of situations. And I'm fairly sure I've seen goalkeepers visibly quake as 4 or 5 of my team advance on him with only 1 or 2 defenders anywhere in sight! It is basically another string for my bow. Normally the team will pass it around and probe, although they are always looking forwards anyway this just encourages that! Is my reading of this right? what circumstances do you turn it off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Well. My understanding is that it basically sets the team up to always be ready to spring forward en masse when the opportunity arises. The D line drops back, most of the front 6 rush forward and balls are pinged directly forward, with the pace of Lennon, Bale and JD and the pin point passing of the likes of THudd to supply them I find I score a lot in these kind of situations. And I'm fairly sure I've seen goalkeepers visibly quake as 4 or 5 of my team advance on him with only 1 or 2 defenders anywhere in sight! It is basically another string for my bow. Normally the team will pass it around and probe, although they are always looking forwards anyway this just encourages that!Is my reading of this right? what circumstances do you turn it off? Yeah thats a good way or putting it. Plus Spurs have lots of pace so it does make sense to utilise this. I've scored a **** load of goals this way on the Spurs saved. It's basically more directness to a teams play and look to move the ball forward quicker. I tend to turn it off against the lesser teams who camp their own half and offer no attack threat. I prefer to pick those teams apart with accurate passes and precision instead. So I tend to turn counter attack off then, as it's a waste of good possession. Well it can be a waste. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Yeah thats a good way or putting it. Plus Spurs have lots of pace so it does make sense to utilise this. I've scored a **** load of goals this way on the Spurs saved. It's basically more directness to a teams play and look to move the ball forward quicker.I tend to turn it off against the lesser teams who camp their own half and offer no attack threat. I prefer to pick those teams apart with accurate passes and precision instead. So I tend to turn counter attack off then, as it's a waste of good possession. Well it can be a waste. Cheers mate, that might explain why I often struggle against the park the bus teams! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Cheers mate, that might explain why I often struggle against the park the bus teams! Could help to me a bit more patient around them yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Yeah, absolutely makes sense. foolish of me to not think about it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 I'm adding some more stuff up now. Although it is at a slower rate than I expected but it's getting there now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Nice. just to note I tried a couple of games without the counter on and it definitely improved our possession and Luka's probing was more considered. Definitely a new string to my bow. Did you read my post about my Carling Cup final in the Spurs thread? Tactical masterstroke FTW! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Nice. just to note I tried a couple of games without the counter on and it definitely improved our possession and Luka's probing was more considered. Definitely a new string to my bow. Did you read my post about my Carling Cup final in the Spurs thread? Tactical masterstroke FTW! Nope I've not read it yet, is it interesting? Maybe it would be of some use to post it in here too. I'll go and have a read of it now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Nope I've not read it yet, is it interesting? Maybe it would be of some use to post it in here too. I'll go and have a read of it now it was only one thing, not really worthy of inclusion. It just marks a new watershed in my own personal tactical development. I've always been of the opinion that I'll let the opponents worry about my team. But for once, after analysing other games against City i realised that De Jong in the holding role got a lot of possession and really controlled games for them. To counter this I set my AMC (VDV) to man mark him. This obviously meant I lost a lot of freedom and attacking intent for Rafa but this individual sacrifice benefited the whole team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 it was only one thing, not really worthy of inclusion. It just marks a new watershed in my own personal tactical development.I've always been of the opinion that I'll let the opponents worry about my team. But for once, after analysing other games against City i realised that De Jong in the holding role got a lot of possession and really controlled games for them. To counter this I set my AMC (VDV) to man mark him. This obviously meant I lost a lot of freedom and attacking intent for Rafa but this individual sacrifice benefited the whole team. I've just read it actually How bad did you find it affected VDV's game? did it take much away from his attacking game? If anyone is clueless to what thread we keep talking about this is the link http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/249407-FM11-Tottenham-Hotspur-Rise-of-the-Triffics-(take-3) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I reduced his roaming and cf so he was almost always tied to NDJ! so yes it affected his attacking, he was less involved in build ups and struggled to find room when he got the ball, it was actually quite funny to watch, they were like siamese twins! He did however win us the ball high up the pitch a couple of times to effect some good possession. The key was NDJ was rarely able to make any forward passes or get himself too far forward. Rafa had a 7.0 IIRC and was effective at what i asked him to do. Its certainly not something I would do regularly but I really wanted that silverware and we went into the game a little out of sorts and struggling for goals. Its the closest I've ever got to anti football! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Cleon, I've checked out your full back posts now. I'm surprised to see the difference in heading results. Charlie (Corluka to non Spurs fans) is 6'4'(I know this is irrelevant to the ME but felt it should be mentioned) and has 16's I think for heading/jumping, so should be more than matching Bassong. I use him marking tall players at set pieces rather than wasting his height on the posts. He's never seemed to struggle. I'll check my stats when I fire up FM in a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Cleon, I've checked out your full back posts now. I'm surprised to see the difference in heading results. Charlie (Corluka to non Spurs fans) is 6'4'(I know this is irrelevant to the ME but felt it should be mentioned) and has 16's I think for heading/jumping, so should be more than matching Bassong. I use him marking tall players at set pieces rather than wasting his height on the posts. He's never seemed to struggle. I'll check my stats when I fire up FM in a bit. He only has 15 jumping and 15 heading and 17 strength on my game. Bassong though has 18 for heading and 17 for jumping and 18 for strength. So he has better all round stats to win headers and. Plus Bassong has better positioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Fair enough. I'll see how they are shaping up for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Cleon, only a small detail but one that's baffling me. On the team settings you have Attacking set as the strategy, but Play Offside is defaulted at No. Whenever I choose Attacking as the strategy, it always defaults at Yes ? Strange, maybe my game is broken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Cleon, only a small detail but one that's baffling me.On the team settings you have Attacking set as the strategy, but Play Offside is defaulted at No. Whenever I choose Attacking as the strategy, it always defaults at Yes ? Strange, maybe my game is broken When I used the TC to create the base I started off with balanced and changed to attacking after I created the base. That will be why Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Fair enough. I'll see how they are shaping up for me. It would be good to see how they differ on your game to mine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 When I used the TC to create the base I started off with balanced and changed to attacking after I created the base. That will be why So I assume you do play the offisde trap then (or you subsequently switched the flag off). I was about to edit my post, having noticed that the tactic names we're different (and the passing defaults on the FB's), i guessed you probably took the screenies at different times. Is it safe to assume the settings in the pictures are the correct ones ? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah the settings are correct. I took the screenshots from the same saved game which I saved twice (since my blades one got currupt im more cautious now). There both saved games bang at end of season. But one one of em I must not have renamed the tactic yet and have on the other. But there deffo the same one I just loaded up game to make sure for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 It would be good to see how they differ on your game to mine I'm only at the end of Feb and Corluka has had a lot of injuries and Bassong has played about 50% of his games at CB but these are the stats Bassong: Jumping 17; Heading 16; Strength 16; Pos 15 Headers 123/142 (86%) Corluka: 15; 15; 16; 17 Headers 32/38 (84%) I think Charlies injuries make it difficult to make any real comparisons One thing is clear is that I need to know what you are doing to them in training that I'm not, cos you're attributes seem considerably better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 I'm only at the end of Feb and Corluka has had a lot of injuries and Bassong has played about 50% of his games at CB but these are the statsBassong: Jumping 17; Heading 16; Strength 16; Pos 15 Headers 123/142 (86%) Corluka: 15; 15; 16; 17 Headers 32/38 (84%) I think Charlies injuries make it difficult to make any real comparisons One thing is clear is that I need to know what you are doing to them in training that I'm not, cos you're attributes seem considerably better. I've created my own specific schedules, not quite sure how good they are though until around end of season 2 as I've not tested them enough yet. I am going to post them up though but less than a full season isn't really a tested method yet so don't wanna jump the gun too early. It'll be interesting to see the difference in stats at end of the season with Charlie and Bassong though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Edgar, do you have a screenshot of Sandro on your game from the current date your at. Have you been playing him? I just wanted to see the attribute difference and see if there was a noticeable one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 No I've not played him much at all, on 11.1 and 2 he struggled to settle so I was dubious to use him to early. Therefore not massive progression, but here he is: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Interesting, we differ in quite a few stats. I's love to see the training schedule that you use for him. Here is mine This is Sandro on 19th of october This is 12th of December This is 12th of Feb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 28th of May Quite interesting to follow someones development over a full season. Luckily enough I can do this for all the current Spurs player's that I started with. I saved the game at intervals to go back and keep checking for reference on development if I needed to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar555 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 This is his current training schedule but its tweaked throughout the season. A bit less intensive overall than yours I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Quite interesting the differences. Cheers for that Edgar, I'll have a proper look at the schedule during the week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyro Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hi Cleon, I have read the other thread and it is very interesting and gives me more understanding of the game. I have started looking at the analysis tool in particular and am also trying to see the attributes working in the match engine. In your latest posts you tweak each player with individual instructions. I have tried doing this bit by bit, for example, with one of my strikers who has all the "highlighted" attributes needed for a poacher except for the dribbling part (9 only = moving with the ball). So I tried to reduce that and see if it works better. Basically, I am asking if that is advisable to use the basic role and then tweak the players to fit their strengths or would I then alter the general mentality, passing, etc. set up in the match prep and reduce the teams "blending" of those? I am still confused on those parts. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hi Cleon,I have read the other thread and it is very interesting and gives me more understanding of the game. I have started looking at the analysis tool in particular and am also trying to see the attributes working in the match engine. In your latest posts you tweak each player with individual instructions. I have tried doing this bit by bit, for example, with one of my strikers who has all the "highlighted" attributes needed for a poacher except for the dribbling part (9 only = moving with the ball). So I tried to reduce that and see if it works better. Basically, I am asking if that is advisable to use the basic role and then tweak the players to fit their strengths or would I then alter the general mentality, passing, etc. set up in the match prep and reduce the teams "blending" of those? I am still confused on those parts. Thank you. You can do either, some people don't like the alter the instructions. But me on the other hand I always tweak them to fit the style I want to play and so that a player plays to his strengths. But it also heavily depends on the player's around him. For examples you mentioned a poacher, for the poacher to be successful he needs to have player's around him who can do the intelligent through balls for him to run onto, or do a pass he can reach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Sorry Cleon, but is there any chance you'll be able to post the rest of the players' stats and instructions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Sorry Cleon, but is there any chance you'll be able to post the rest of the players' stats and instructions? I am, but I haven't got time to upload them all in 1 go. Real life is kinda busy.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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