The 8.0.2 New Game Attributes "Problem"

Mitja · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DaveRH:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't a previous version of FM use cut down values for the stats? I recall loads of complaints about that: "What do you mean Thierry Henry only has 15 finishnig!!!!".

Personally, I think that generally lower stats means players with great ability in certain areas (David Beckham crossing etc) have a good chance to shine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

of course dave, I totally agree. if you read my 1st posts on this thread you would see that I first defended the game, becouse people were moaning how "aguero stats droped". I allways thought player's were given too many too good stats.

I'm not moaning about decrease-more about adding up stats. and that how the game doesn't matches up real db. I puted some screenies where a guy of CA 127 looks maybe better then carvalho. now someone'll probably say carvalho will play better. but why? why we have atributes then?

DaveRH · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

I puted some screenies where a guy of CA 127 looks maybe better then carvalho. now someone'll probably say carvalho will play better. but why? why we have atributes then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As previously said, it isn't just any single attribute but rather the combinations of them. Including the hidden ones.

LSS · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

I puted some screenies where a guy of CA 127 looks maybe better then carvalho. now someone'll probably say carvalho will play better. but why? why we have atributes then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. If the attributes are there then they should be accurate. Of course the hidden attributes are also a factor in how the player performs, but still it seems very confusing that the attributes are "lying".

Mitja · February 20, 2008

I know that dave? the game changes that combination also and that's the point. I know which combination is important for each position, I'm not playing this game since yesrtday. can you be more specific if you think I'm missing smth.

blayhod · February 20, 2008

i've patched my mexican league save game and to be honest, i haven't seen attributes change at all.

despite that imight have missed players that did change...

but, i believe mitja is right.

when i need to sign a player for certain position i look for certain attributes. if attributes don't reflect the ability of player, i wonder why do i look at the attributes? i should go and search CA, right?

DaveRH · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

I know that dave? the game changes that combination also and that's the point. I know which combination is important for each position, I'm not playing this game since yesrtday. can you be more specific if you think I'm missing smth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think you are missing anything, but I do think that you are making a bigger fuss of this than is warranted.

The attributes do reflect the ability of the player, but it is the collective attributes (including hidden ones such as professionalism) which make a good player.

Taking our Elano/Ronaldinho example from earlier - despite the representation of the technical attributes - Ronaldinho will be the match winner. His technique and flair are far higher and it's doing the unexpected or showboating which makes Ronaldinho the player he is (or right now, was ).

mkkadi · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mkkadi:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joshlee:

fix this problem please...

it is totally unplayble </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well it's playable but somehow tottaly unrealistic.

everytime's something goes wrong they don't reply. we would probably see miles explaining that it's a human bug, which testing team didn't notice and that they're looking in it and considering something </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come off it.

Its not a bug in the game, the attributes in the game are as they should be. There is possibly a bug in the tool that is used by researchers to compile player data, but that does not affect the realism of that attributes in the game.

Far too much is being made of this by non researchers.

Please, just play the game and enjoy the better balance between CA and attributes and hence more realism. There is zero chance of any update addressing this area of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You sad that does not affect the realism of that attributes in the game. Can you explain me that a player ability for example dribling is 15 in editor. But in the game it appears 17. Which of them uses match engine? 15 or 17? If 15 there is no problem but if 17 there is a problem because if mant attributes increase 2 points or decrease, match aengine acts wrong and it affects the game.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are we talking data editor with the game or are you meaning the researcher's editor?

If the former, its because the data editor supplied with the game doesnt warn the user about the attributes not matching the CA.

If the latter, its an issue that will be resolved for next year's research tool, but has no relevance to non researchers.

Hope this makes sense,

Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

first of all thanks for your replies Paul.

that's a little bit strange answer to mkkadi's fair question. the game should use 17, of course.

if the former; what's responsibile for stats not matching editor db? researchers? I don't think so.

if the latter; it meens you're not happy with accuracy how game matches up db, and you're introducing new researhers tool, which is great. it does have relevance to the gamers, becouse we were promised this game as the most realistic simulation of them all (but that's not my moan). this is db issue, it's the last thing where you would expect trouble. you have largest researchers base who are doing exellant job. I can understand that long term confidence is hard to work properly and stuff like that. but now we have situation where the gaming world doesn't reflect your researchers work and so it has influence on this game's reality. changing some player's stats (all of them) by adding or decreasing up to 2 points, makes him highly over/under rated. you said or someone alse said, thses players will perform as same as they weren't changed. what's the point of atributes then anyway. instead CA should be enough </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Mitja and Paul. I wanted to say that your researchers set up the player abilities with their program and these stats enter the db or editor. If I opened the game editor Ä± see the real attributes but in the game this attributes are over/under rated and certanly I know that match engine uses the attributes in the game so this is a mistake I dont care whose but if there is a problem which affect the game it has to be corrected by you(SI).

mkkadi · February 20, 2008

Another question to Paul. Are you trying to say that this is a problem which is made by Researchers editor(program)? I mean the researcehrs enter CA and set up the attributes but the program is incoorect so the attributes are lower/higher than CA, so when we open a new game the attributes set up again by game crrectliy to CA by lowering or increasing attributes. Thank you..

fefeu · February 20, 2008

I find better you to give up and to wait the fm 2009 because they already spoke that the chance of being corrected is zero, the game is not only perfect for that reason

TheDuke18 · February 20, 2008

So, just to confirm, nothing is going to be done about this 'problem'?

Deza · February 20, 2008

I think that the problem is caused by a bug in the researchersÂ´ editors. The stats only gets higher or lower for some players, not all. So, maybe the CA-RCA balance is wrong for these players. Even if the researchers think that they have set CA-RCA in balance for these players, it is not, because of this possible bug in the editor. So because of this the game need to change the stats, up/down, to match the player CA.

T.R.F.C · February 20, 2008

whens the new FMM comming out so i can correct the mistakes of SI cause my dream team which has won 7 cossecative champions league and Premiship title is turning into a sunday league team

Maviarab · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">whens the new FMM comming out so i can correct the mistakes of SI cause my dream team which has won 7 cossecative champions league and Premiship title is turning into a sunday league team </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And thus, the true 'problem' rears its ugly head.

T.R.F.C · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">whens the new FMM comming out so i can correct the mistakes of SI cause my dream team which has won 7 cossecative champions league and Premiship title is turning into a sunday league team </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And thus, the true 'problem' rears its ugly head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whats that ment to mean ?

Maviarab · February 20, 2008

It means that now the engine in tandem with the lowering of attributes has made things that little bit more realistic,

You now have to work and think to be sucessful.

T.R.F.C · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:

It means that now the engine in tandem with the lowering of attributes has made things that little bit more realistic,

You now have to work and think to be sucessful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i did that the first 4 seasons, building up a team and fixing the tatics so i was succesfull i dont really want to spend another 4 season replacing the Â£400million pounds of players i bought

KnightedManager · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T.R.F.C:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:

It means that now the engine in tandem with the lowering of attributes has made things that little bit more realistic,

You now have to work and think to be sucessful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i did that the first 4 seasons, building up a team and fixing the tatics so i was succesfull i dont really want to spend another 4 season replacing the Â£400million pounds of players i bought </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

T.R.F.C. is right you know. I've slogged in the SPL for 6 seasons as the Gers (yes domestically they are strong but my aim was European then Global growth so don't give me 'Rangers are easy bull'). As I mentioned before, my team potentially good enough to win the Champions League had lost it's key DC, and, something I hadn't noticed before, it's 20 y/o goalmachine. His stat of 19 finishing lies now at 13, however on the plus side, he can now throw long at a princely 12, where before it was 6.

My main gripe about this attribute 'fixing' is the fact that existing save games are being affected. I'm not sure that I am bothered royally that SI I want to mess with our heads on the whole ca/Actual Ability in Game conundrum.

azeri4life · February 20, 2008

I really wish we were told about this before the patch was released or as it was released because my game has been virtually wrecked - I know people are going on about how they built up their dream team and all that but that was with TRFC, as he claims that he spent Â£400million on them - I felt very happy with myself because I found the players myself and paid good sums for them... and the big money players that I have bought now do not warrant their big price-tags...

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, I've been playing it for years and years now. Just this problem is slightly frustrating and annoying.

Maviarab · February 20, 2008

But this is attribute lowering across the board. So to say that your team now can't challenge for a title etc etc etc is ridiculous, as all your opponents (especially Champ League teams) will have suffered the same 'loss of attributes'

As has been stated by an SI mod here, the players are not worse than they were, just their stats now more accuratly reflect what they should be.

So, it happens to your players, it happens to every other teams players, so really in essence, nothing has changed.

azeri4life · February 20, 2008

No, sorry, you are wrong, there are many, many players in my game that have not been affected and none of them are part of my team (apart from Kiessling, I should say). So what kind of level playing field is that?

And if the stats have just been changed to reflect their current ability, then what, what we had before was wrong? Those stats were incorrect and we were buying players who were actually not as good as the game might have made us interpret?

azeri4life · February 20, 2008

Though to be honest, I'm pretty sure that Kiessling will soon see his stats plummet too.

Hawshiels · February 20, 2008

Hi guys,

If your players attributes have dropped considerably, I will predict that they are good with two feet. The players that will be less reduced (if at all) will be good with just one foot.

If you look at this and see that I am correct, follow this link to find out more details.

If you can't be bothered, let me summarise by predicting that although the player's attributes will have dropped, the effect they have in the game will be pretty much the same as before.

Maviarab · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Those stats were incorrect and we were buying players who were actually not as good as the game might have made us interpret? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you actually 'read' my previous post? The players have neither got worse or better, just the attributes more accuratly reflect what they should be.

Jeesh, whats so hard about grasping that?

**Neil Brock** · February 20, 2008

Modern day football is all about pace and acceleration. Look at teams like Arsenal their success is built on pace. Elsewhere in the Premier League players like Agbonlahor wouldn't be half the player he is without pace and acceleration.

Looking at Ronalado and Elano, it's clear the formers pace makes him a much harder prospect to play against. Combining that kind of physical attribute with his otherwise impressive attributes, IMO, make him a much better threat and player in FM2008. Elano is good no question, but he's not as good. His CA will reflect that.

Maviarab · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Looking at Ronalado and Elano, it's clear the formers pace makes him a much harder prospect to play against. Combining that kind of physical attribute with his otherwise impressive attributes, IMO, make him a much better threat and player in FM2008. Elano is good no question, but he's not as good. His CA will reflect that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point indeed. Also as has been said numerous times in different threads, its the sum of a players attributes (including hidden) that is more important than an attribute on its own.

Going to leave this thread now, like banging your head against a wall at times. Happy debating.

azeri4life · February 20, 2008

The point is being missed here entirely! We CANNOT see the CA of players so we should be making our opinions of the players by their stats which we can see! Yes there are the hidden ones but they can be found by scouting.

Now Maviarab, what is so damn hard to understand about that? If you stopped thinking about defending the game or SI and instead read and abosrbed what is being written then perhaps you could understand us here.

postal postie · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nbrocky:

Modern day football is all about pace and acceleration. Look at teams like Arsenal their success is built on pace. Elsewhere in the Premier League players like Agbonlahor wouldn't be half the player he is without pace and acceleration.

Looking at Ronalado and Elano, it's clear the formers pace makes him a much harder prospect to play against. Combining that kind of physical attribute with his otherwise impressive attributes, IMO, make him a much better threat and player in FM2008. Elano is good no question, but he's not as good. His CA will reflect that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

as paul c says it's about the combination of stats.

if a player has dribbling of 20 but pace of 10 then that's not going to be as dangerous as someone with dribling 18 but pace 17.

as an example

Hamselv · February 20, 2008

First of all I have to say that I'm sure the balancing of the stats does work in terms of the match engine generating fairly realistic results. I also do realize that you have to look at a combination of stats, and that some stats are more important than others. Still, I have to say that I'm not happy with the results of some of these adjustments. To me a lot of the technical stats seem like fairly measurable things on their own: Free kicks, passing, long shots, finishing, and so on.

Continuing with the Elano/Ronaldo example: The adjustments make Elano better than Ronaldo in all the mentioned technical stats, but because of some of Ronaldo's superior physical stats, he is still a better player in the eyes of the match engine. In real life, I doubt that Elano would be a better player than Ronaldo if only he was able to run a little faster. Ronaldo's technical stats are better the Elano's in the real world, so I feel that should be represented when looking at the player's stats in the game. People that take the time to get a deeper understanding of the match engine, will learn that technical stats doesn't have a very important role when comparing players, but still I think that the best players should basically have the highest stats.

I know all this complaining is for a lost cause, but it seems like the player stats are adjusted to fit the match engine, instead of adjusting the match engine to fit the player stats.

13xForever · February 20, 2008

im actually quite pleased with the attributes change. playing as newcastle and they all seem fair. (maybe milners pace could be better)

glad Ronaldo stats been put down in some areas.

postal postie · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hamselv:

First of all I have to say that I'm sure the balancing of the stats does work in terms of the match engine generating fairly realistic results. I also do realize that you have to look at a combination of stats, and that some stats are more important than others. Still, I have to say that I'm not happy with the results of some of these adjustments. To me a lot of the technical stats seem like fairly measurable things on their own: Free kicks, passing, long shots, finishing, and so on.

Continuing with the Elano/Ronaldo example: The adjustments make Elano better than Ronaldo in all the mentioned technical stats, but because of some of Ronaldo's superior physical stats, he is still a better player in the eyes of the match engine. In real life, I doubt that Elano would be a better player than Ronaldo if only he was able to run a little faster. Ronaldo's technical stats are better the Elano's in the real world, so I feel that should be represented when looking at the player's stats in the game. People that take the time to get a deeper understanding of the match engine, will learn that technical stats doesn't have a very important role when comparing players, but still I think that the best players should basically have the highest stats.

I know all this complaining is for a lost cause, but it seems like the player stats are adjusted to fit the match engine, instead of adjusting the match engine to fit the player stats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the only technical stats that elano has that are much better than ronaldos, according to the screen shots on the first page, are his crossing and freekicks and corners.

his passing is also far superior.

i would hardly say that the crossing and free kicks and corners stats affect the plyaers out field abilities that much.

as for the other technical abilities. dribblings the same, finishing is 1 point difference so hardly a big deal, ronaldos heading is much better, and technique and first touch are hardly miles apart.

take into account the hidden stats and also the fact that in my game ronaldo scores about 1 goal every 2.3 games and gets almost as many assits then its hardly the case that ronaldo is much worse than elano.

killa_kwa · February 20, 2008

if these SI clowns knew what they were doing in the first place none of us would be having this argument.how can anyone even put elano with the likes of ronaldo,kaka, messi and ronaldinho. These SI clowns must be amatuers.

Canabary · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hamselv:

First of all I have to say that I'm sure the balancing of the stats does work in terms of the match engine generating fairly realistic results. I also do realize that you have to look at a combination of stats, and that some stats are more important than others. Still, I have to say that I'm not happy with the results of some of these adjustments. To me a lot of the technical stats seem like fairly measurable things on their own: Free kicks, passing, long shots, finishing, and so on.

Continuing with the Elano/Ronaldo example: The adjustments make Elano better than Ronaldo in all the mentioned technical stats, but because of some of Ronaldo's superior physical stats, he is still a better player in the eyes of the match engine. In real life, I doubt that Elano would be a better player than Ronaldo if only he was able to run a little faster. Ronaldo's technical stats are better the Elano's in the real world, so I feel that should be represented when looking at the player's stats in the game. People that take the time to get a deeper understanding of the match engine, will learn that technical stats doesn't have a very important role when comparing players, but still I think that the best players should basically have the highest stats.

I know all this complaining is for a lost cause, but it seems like the player stats are adjusted to fit the match engine, instead of adjusting the match engine to fit the player stats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the only technical stats that elano has that are much better than ronaldos, according to the screen shots on the first page, are his crossing and freekicks and corners.

his passing is also far superior.

i would hardly say that the crossing and free kicks and corners stats affect the plyaers out field abilities that much.

as for the other technical abilities. dribblings the same, finishing is 1 point difference so hardly a big deal, ronaldos heading is much better, and technique and first touch are hardly miles apart.

take into account the hidden stats and also the fact that in my game ronaldo scores about 1 goal every 2.3 games and gets almost as many assits then its hardly the case that ronaldo is much worse than elano. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Elano still plays better than most. City won the fa cup on my game, Elano scored an hatrick against me. I reckon it could be bad luck, but Elano an hatrick? come on...

Hamselv · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

the only technical stats that elano has that are much better than ronaldos, according to the screen shots on the first page, are his crossing and freekicks and corners.

his passing is also far superior.

i would hardly say that the crossing and free kicks and corners stats affect the plyaers out field abilities that much.

as for the other technical abilities. dribblings the same, finishing is 1 point difference so hardly a big deal, ronaldos heading is much better, and technique and first touch are hardly miles apart.

take into account the hidden stats and also the fact that in my game ronaldo scores about 1 goal every 2.3 games and gets almost as many assits then its hardly the case that ronaldo is much worse than elano. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you read my post? I'm not at all complaining about Ronaldo being worse than Elano. Clearly Ronaldo performs much better in the game. What I am complaining about is that due to these new adjustments of the stats, Ronaldo and Elano seems to be pretty much equally good players. Elano has a few better technical stats, where Ronaldo has some better physical stats. So, since the player stats is what we mostly use to judge how good a player is, then wouldn't you expect that at least the stats of a player, that is by many (including the FM database) considered among the best in the world, would actually look like more than "almost as good as Elano".

Mitja · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nbrocky:

Modern day football is all about pace and acceleration. Look at teams like Arsenal their success is built on pace. Elsewhere in the Premier League players like Agbonlahor wouldn't be half the player he is without pace and acceleration.

Looking at Ronalado and Elano, it's clear the formers pace makes him a much harder prospect to play against. Combining that kind of physical attribute with his otherwise impressive attributes, IMO, make him a much better threat and player in FM2008. Elano is good no question, but he's not as good. His CA will reflect that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that speed or strenght are realy important things in modern football. but you must be joking if this is your argument. what differents good player from exellant/legends, it has allways been mental strenghts and it will allways be. zidane's greatest strenght was his speed right?

Mitja · February 20, 2008

....his vision, decision making and trickery combined with exellant technical ability. not speed or strenght.

the game should judge all 3 aspects of attributes equally, so I don't buy this "but he is 2 points faster then him" BS.

DaveRH · February 20, 2008

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by azeri4life:

The point is being missed here entirely! We CANNOT see the CA of players so we should be making our opinions of the players by their stats which we can see! Yes there are the hidden ones but they can be found by scouting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't understand your point. You should use exactly the same decision process you used before to pick out great players. CA and PA are irrelevant in terms of a player's ability - they are just mechanisms for controlling his development.

Additionally I'd expect that where a faster technical player has lost points, he'll still be fast and technical. What have you actually lost?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

I agree that speed or strenght are realy important things in modern football. but you must be joking if this is your argument. what differents good player from exellant/legends, it has allways been mental strenghts and it will allways be. zidane's greatest strenght was his speed right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taking your example - If you think that Zidane had no great physical attributes then you are sadly mistaken (in fm terms - how about his balance and strength?). Using a single attribute (pace in this case) is a false argument.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hamselv:

So, since the player stats is what we mostly use to judge how good a player is, then wouldn't you expect that at least the stats of a player, that is by many (including the FM database) considered among the best in the world, would actually look like more than "almost as good as Elano". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I disagree. Basing a decision on whether a player is a potential great within your teamon a combination of physical, mental and technical stats has always been the way to go.

In my own save I would have no place for Elano in my team. He just doesn't suit my system. Ronaldo would work a peach primarily because of his physical stats combined with his technical and mental abilities.

The arguement that players are less than they were before in direct comparison to their 8.0.1 counterparts in certainly true - but it makes them no less valuable or worse performers in 8.0.2 because other "over statted" players have also lost ability.

Joor · February 20, 2008

When is this discussion going to stop ?

Ronaldo is so much better in the match engine compared to elano, and the reason is ;

Ronaldo is got 16 left and 20 right foot.

Elano got 6 in left foot plus hes psycical attributes are much lower.

Show Elano onto weak foot and hes almost useless

Mitja · February 20, 2008